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Purgatus Killteam has been a favorite of mine for a little while now:

Vets (5) - stalker boltgun x5, boltgun x5
Terminator - cyclone
Librarian - level 2, hope for phase form, or perfect timing, etc. (so many options).

That unit is really nice and if you DO get phaseform... oh man that's one scared HQ if you can expose them before this unit arrives from deepstrike, especially behind LoS blocking cover haha.

I think the best MSU killteam if you're just looking to fill a CAD's troop slots (so that you can sprinkle in single bike, TH/SS terminator, melta bomb vvet, etc. units) is:

(You're always gonna have to kill troops, and remember that means their dedicated transports too! so use these for trukks, rhinos, jetbikes, etc.)

Furor Kiltleam:
Vets (5) - pod, shotgun/bolter x3, frag cannon x2, terminator w/heavy flamer
(*and maybe fist/aux melta if you have the points, or a storm shield if you dont play on a lot of cover terrain)

I'm thinking of using the following as an ally to my guard force in a game this weekend, I like the load outs and think they will do a good job as a pinpoint elimination tool but it seems alot of points for three not that hard to kill units :/

Black Spear Strike Force
Watch Commander
1 Librarian ML:2, Terminator, Auspex, Meltabombs 125
Ancient
1 Venerable Dread Nihilus 135
Deathwatch Aquila Kill Team
1 Terminator Heavy Flamer, Meltafist 60
6 Veterans Srg, 2x Frag Cannon, 1x Storm Shield, 3x Shotgun, Combimelta 202
1 Vanguard Veteran Lightning Claw, Storm Shield 40
1 Biker Power Sword 35
Deathwatch Aquila Kill Team
1 Terminator Thunderhammer, Storm Shield, Cyclone Missile Launcher 75
5 Veterans Stalker Pattern Boltguns, Boltguns 135


Total= 807

I really like the idea of a cyclone with thunderhammerSS but it seems a tad expensive at 75pts for a single model.

Pretty sure you can't buy a Cyclone for a Thunder-Shield Termie, as the order of operations has you replace the Cyclone when you purchase the Hammer and Shield.

SJ

Yer I'm a little dubious myself but am fed up of waiting for them to answer the DW FAQ questions (which this was one of) the hobby knife is on standby depending on their answer

On the order of operations point: there is no actual rule regarding that (afaik) but people often point to it as if there were, it may seem a logical way to do it but that doesn't really fit with them :/ The way they answer the FAQ questions seems to be more from a fluff and RAI standpoint than how the book is laid out, the dark angel terminators have been given permission to equip models with TH/SS and a cyclone and that president seems a good guide to go by for now.

Not sure which way to go on the TH/SH/CML debate. One thought, and sadly I don't have the book to check right now (I am eternally on trains), is are the CML listed under special issue wargear? Because if so then replacing weapons wouldn't do anything to it RaW.

Just quickly I love love love frag cannons. They are doing so damn well for me I want to get as many as I can, I'm kind of loving templates in general (flames, not blast.......ew)

So I'm wondering, what would 3 furioso dreadnoughts with frag cannons and heavy Flanders in drop pods be like? If I use them with the new chapter ancients rules from angels blade, they could give up their movement to lay down 4 frag cannon templates and 2 heavy flames templates each in a single turn, provided they survive their drop and burn turn.

I was thinking maybe drop my killteams t1 next to anti armour solutions. They probably die but hopefully all the enemy is left with is light arms and not enough ways to deal with 3 furiosos and lots of flamer action.

What do people think? Any potential for painful hilarity there?

Cheers,

Qwerty

I have a question. How is the Blackstar supposed to combat other fliers that have armor 12? Their only weapon with strength higher than 6 is the Lascannon, and their only weapon with Skyfire is Corvid Warheads, which are only strength 6. So unless you're lucky and their flier is positioned perfectly for you to come onto the board facing their rear, you're at best hitting on 3's and glancing on 6's, with a weapon that has random shot amounts.

I ask because my friend runs a Heldrake, which I could not beat with flakk missiles alone. The flakk missiles and blackstar are the only methods of anti-air without relying on lucky snapshots, but I need to do something about that Drake because it just tears through my Killteams.

I have an admittedly stupid, waste of points melee oriented kill team (I made it for shiggles, but it truly is not worth the points until DW can charge out of a deepstrike and can slaughter an expensive unit that way) i'm trimming down to make room for more anti-air, but i'm not confident that the Blackstar will be better than just adding more flakk missiles to my army wherever possible.

It makes sense that a transport isn't supposed to be the end all be all attack flyer that can kill anything, but 'd rather not have to run allies or a fortification with a skyfire emplacement just to counter one flier.

On a side note though, for people that were hesitant to bring Watch Masters: DO IT. They are absolute monsters in combat, today mine was able to kill 4 Nurgle Terminators on the charge by himself. He's another reason i'm cutting down my melee kill team, they didn't even get to swing because he trashed the unit, and the termie sergeant was locked in a challenge with my captain. Then came the Heldrake and torched everyone but the Master and the Captain because it targeted a unit that was close enough to them... but eh.

As a flyer, the Corvus Blackstar can elect to have the Skyfire rule on ALL of its weapons. Meaning, it can have Skyfire Stormstrike Missiles, Assault Cannons, or Lascannons.

Nvm, thank you! Now that I know that, i'll definitely be adding a Blackstar as a second Auxiliary in my BSSF after I cut my melee killlteam down to a more reasonable point cost.

 xTHExCLINCHERx wrote:


I think the best MSU killteam if you're just looking to fill a CAD's troop slots (so that you can sprinkle in single bike, TH/SS terminator, melta bomb vvet, etc. units) is:

(You're always gonna have to kill troops, and remember that means their dedicated transports too! so use these for trukks, rhinos, jetbikes, etc.)

Furor Kiltleam:
Vets (5) - pod, shotgun/bolter x3, frag cannon x2, terminator w/heavy flamer
(*and maybe fist/aux melta if you have the points, or a storm shield if you dont play on a lot of cover terrain)

Uh....Kill Teams are formations unto themselves. So you can't take them in a CAD. If you take a Deathwatch CAD your troops choices will be Veterans squads.

have you guys tried the Strategium command team with double libby? rolling for invisibility, shifting worldscape, or other biomancy stuff.

Here is what I've got:

Biker with melta bomb to give split fire
2 termies with chainfist for ripping super heavies
3 vet with meltas or grav
2 vet with shotgun/storm shield for tanking with 3+ invul
2 ML2 Libby with melta bombs
Optionally add frag cannon, more storm shields, and heavy hammer for more lulz
and everyone boards corvus or deep strike pending on situation and foe.

Use one libby to get invisibility or biomancy buff with 4++ FNP. and the other 1 soften enemy up or cast other craziness.

It worked magic, the knight have no idea what hit it.

I've been strongly considering doing a Watch Company, opposed to a Black Spear strike force.

Using the Beacon Angelis to bring in a melee squad with the Captain, etc.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I've been strongly considering doing a Watch Company, opposed to a Black Spear strike force.

Using the Beacon Angelis to bring in a melee squad with the Captain, etc.

Why not do both? A watch company is a core choice in a Black Spear, no?

Potentially points heavy. The idea would to be avoiding the Corvus Tax of the Black Spear, and possibly including a Melee Team that can Beacon in, and maybe ally a Skyhammer and fit within 1850.

If you are avoiding a corvus tax, why not go with a cheap dreadnought? With the boost in attacks they got, they aren't a total waste in points these days.

Because, unfortunately, DW Dreads are more shooty and punchy. No melee upgrades. The very MOMENT FW produces rules for a Contemptor is the moment I do exactly that.

When you beacon a melee unit in they cant charge can they? I mean its like a deepstrike isn't it where they have to sit for a turn and soak wounds?

 Rezyn wrote:
When you beacon a melee unit in they cant charge can they? I mean its like a deepstrike isn't it where they have to sit for a turn and soak wounds?

Correct, you can't charge after deepstriking. Makes units like that Squad Galatael a little bit worthless as deep strikers, imo. They are gonna have to eat a turn of shooting either way so may as well start them on the board... I am sure there are advantages to deepstriking them, they just don't seem worth the cost of the risk.

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I've been strongly considering doing a Watch Company, opposed to a Black Spear strike force.

Using the Beacon Angelis to bring in a melee squad with the Captain, etc.

Why not do both? A watch company is a core choice in a Black Spear, no?

That's exactly what I'd do, best of both worlds. I don't consider the Corvus a tax, I couldn't imagine running Deathwatch without one, they're amazing.

did anyone take Deathwatch to ITC beside me?

on side note, Deathwatch will totally stomp xenos if you play it right.

I did pod deathwatch, worked magic against ork bikestar and necron wraith spam, terrible against tau interceptor riptide gundam wing (lulz)

 fr3ddy wrote:
did anyone take Deathwatch to ITC beside me?

on side note, Deathwatch will totally stomp xenos if you play it right.

I did pod deathwatch, worked magic against ork bikestar and necron wraith spam, terrible against tau interceptor riptide gundam wing (lulz)

I imagine even against that, you could have built a pretty solid list against it. The problem is that GW seem to expect you to tailor your DW list to your foe... which is not only a bit beardy, but also impossible at tournaments where you bring the same list against multiple opponents throughout.

What do you think would work against Tau Riptide spam in a DW list anyway? Having not played against it, I suspect massed bolter fire will do the trick, especially with our specialized ammo? Poisoned, for example?

Laying down a bunch of wounds with the Poisoned Ammo seems like the best strategy. Especially if you are employing Dominatus Tactics paired with an Aquila Kill Team (rerolling 1s on a 2+ to wound equals a lot of wounds).

Hi All,

Through buying Kill Team, a couple of Deathwatch Overkill boxes for the GSC models and Death Masque for the Harlequins, I've actually ended up with a reasonably large Deathwatch force. I have zero experience with any kind of marine army, but the rules for Deathwatch have really got me hooked so I thought I'd give them a whirl since I already have the models. However, aside from scratchbuilding a few Drop Pods, I'm really not keen on buying anything else for the army.

I'm planning on using the Black Spear Strike Force with Chaplain + Watch Company + Dreadnought. I'm planning on using the Aquila, Furor, Ventator & Dominatus Kill Teams in the Company. I realise it won't be the most competitive force, but would like some advice on how best to equip the aforementioned kill teams. Here is what I was thinking:

Aquila Kill Team Team - Librarian + 5 vets with as many Frag Cannons. Since this team get a boost for everything, I thought max Frag Cannons would be a good all round option

Furor Kill Team - 1 Termie w/ HF, 5 vets with various flamer weapons, Drop Pod. Basically the idea here is to drop behind enemy lines and nuke troop units holding backfield objectives. Maybe stick a beacon on these guys so another squad can join them backfield

Ventator Kill Team - 1 bike, 5 vets, one with storm shield, 1-2 Frag Cannons. Struggling with this one. Basically the idea is, through the Bike's Jink and the Storm Shield, to be a relatively durable unit that can sit on objectives. A few Frag Cannons for damage

Dominatus Kill Team - 5 Vanguard vets with PWs, 5 vets with a black shield and smattering of combat weapons. Idea here is to go combat heavy, make the most of the cheap PWs available to the Vanguard vets and hopefully go toe-to-toe with enemy elites with the re-rolls.

So, as you can see, I don't really have much of an idea as to what I'm doing, but I'd appreciate some feedback on the planned equipment I've got for the above kill teams, as well as any suggestions or general advice you might have. Thanks guys!

There are lots of good tips in this thread, so I'd go digging for that.

To recap some of the points I've made, and things I've seen work for me:

1) Furor Killteam - Great for troops in transports... i love 3 vets w/bolter & shotgun, 2 vets w/frag cannon, terminator w/heavy flamer and power fist/aux melta

2) If you want a good unit to sit on an objective, include a terminator for fearless

3) If you take a CAD, you can fill out the fast and elite slots with single-model units... that means harassment bikes, vvets and termies all around... that could be cool

4) Aquila Killteam - as you have is good. I always like one of these in a pod with many frag cannons and a libby for div... it's expensive but can really hurt. Sorta equivalent to a grav pod, in a way.

5) If you're using the BSSF, be careful... it's gonna be tough not to piece-mail your units to your opponent without any other support (i.e. some sort of reserve manipulation ally, or locator/deathwatch homing beacons, etc.)

6) Don't forget about Allies... there are lots of ways to make up for the places Deathwatch lack by including allies (or using Deathwatch as the ally). Specialize your units/killteams and use them to overkill their target.. then have your other parts of the army secure objectives (like some IG stuff, or maybe regular marines in rhinos, etc.) It's just too expensive to field a full Deathwatch army.. even elite armies like GK have other models to balance out a few units of termies as your troops.. you dont' have Dreadknights, etc. to draw fire like they do... it's really really tough to play solo Deathwatch.

Also do t forget, in a cad you can take the overkill one man units like the white scar biker with hit and run not chapter tactics. The raven guard with stealth and shrouded.

Once the FAQ comes out chapter tactics will go away....but they don't have chapter tactics muahahahahaha

 xTHExCLINCHERx wrote:
There are lots of good tips in this thread, so I'd go digging for that.

To recap some of the points I've made, and things I've seen work for me:

1) Furor Killteam - Great for troops in transports... i love 3 vets w/bolter & shotgun, 2 vets w/frag cannon, terminator w/heavy flamer and power fist/aux melta

2) If you want a good unit to sit on an objective, include a terminator for fearless

3) If you take a CAD, you can fill out the fast and elite slots with single-model units... that means harassment bikes, vvets and termies all around... that could be cool

4) Aquila Killteam - as you have is good. I always like one of these in a pod with many frag cannons and a libby for div... it's expensive but can really hurt. Sorta equivalent to a grav pod, in a way.

5) If you're using the BSSF, be careful... it's gonna be tough not to piece-mail your units to your opponent without any other support (i.e. some sort of reserve manipulation ally, or locator/deathwatch homing beacons, etc.)

6) Don't forget about Allies... there are lots of ways to make up for the places Deathwatch lack by including allies (or using Deathwatch as the ally). Specialize your units/killteams and use them to overkill their target.. then have your other parts of the army secure objectives (like some IG stuff, or maybe regular marines in rhinos, etc.) It's just too expensive to field a full Deathwatch army.. even elite armies like GK have other models to balance out a few units of termies as your troops.. you dont' have Dreadknights, etc. to draw fire like they do... it's really really tough to play solo Deathwatch.

I cannot emphasize how nice it is to have 2 frag cannon in a squad, people will think twice charging you, the overwatch will eat up even assault termies, MANz, scarians, eldar nonsense, and nids. (not wolfstar though, that will kill you)

What he said is right, if taking a cad, take single unit for elites and fast attack, the harassment won me battles for tourney as I run deathwatch primary. 2 single termies with assault cannon is great fun, 30" threat range, 6" movement and 24" of dakka. Single/double bike and vanguard vet w/ melta bomb can let you deal with pods, rhinos, outflanking and infiltrators.

As for allies? I am personally looking into Skitarii for ally instead of guard. Granted wyvern spam, tank spam, blob guard spam...etc is all very useful, but with the prevalence of super heavies and forgeworld these days, I probably go for either knights or skitarii. I am thinking 3 Onager with neutron lazer to pew out str 10 ap 1 blast at anything that looks at my deathwatch marines funny. Have vanguard or ranger cap points and dakka other random stuff while deathwatch drop from sky.

I feel like the problem that DW have is their low model count. They really need things with more staying power and bodies. OR things that will attract a lot of the same type of firepower that will target the deathwatch.

 Leth wrote:
I feel like the problem that DW have is their low model count. They really need things with more staying power and bodies. OR things that will attract a lot of the same type of firepower that will target the deathwatch.

This is a great point.

To counteract this, I theorize that the DW must greatly utilize their greatest strength: their offense. When they arrive out of a transport or via deepstrike, they must annihilate or severely weaken at least one unit, ideally 2 with split fire.

I've concluded that min aquilas with 1 frag cannon and 1 biker might be the best basic unit to accomplish this.

Thanks for the tips guys!

I do agree with the opinion that DW really need to make every shot count, due to how expensive those shots are and how few models they're coming from. That's one thing that's putting me off about keeping my models, to maximise effectiveness I'm probably going to have to buy/scratch-build a load of Rhinos or Drop Pods (or even Land Raiders) which is a lot of extra time and money.

 The Shadow wrote:
Thanks for the tips guys!

I do agree with the opinion that DW really need to make every shot count, due to how expensive those shots are and how few models they're coming from. That's one thing that's putting me off about keeping my models, to maximise effectiveness I'm probably going to have to buy/scratch-build a load of Rhinos or Drop Pods (or even Land Raiders) which is a lot of extra time and money.

It depends on your approach.

For me, I'm spamming kill teams and bikes with locator beacons to position them. Each kill team as 1 bike... so I just need lots of bikes and vets. My list uses 2 drop pods for the CAD, but mostly focuses on the deepstriking kill teams.

 crimson_caesar wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:
Thanks for the tips guys!

I do agree with the opinion that DW really need to make every shot count, due to how expensive those shots are and how few models they're coming from. That's one thing that's putting me off about keeping my models, to maximise effectiveness I'm probably going to have to buy/scratch-build a load of Rhinos or Drop Pods (or even Land Raiders) which is a lot of extra time and money.

It depends on your approach.

For me, I'm spamming kill teams and bikes with locator beacons to position them. Each kill team as 1 bike... so I just need lots of bikes and vets. My list uses 2 drop pods for the CAD, but mostly focuses on the deepstriking kill teams.

I agree that bikers are good, but how to get those kill team w bikers into position quickly? They can't ride in any transports other than Blackstar, which means at the best scenario, they apear on table by 3rd turn. Or would you deep strike them by the detachment benefit?