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 AnomanderRake wrote:
Passive-aggressiveness aside I appear to have a different understanding of how the Imperium works, from which the last few pages made perfect sense to me and looked like gibberish to people who view it as a more honest, monolithic, and well-organized system.

I could maybe image how the Imperium being less monolithic, honest or well organized could means that baseless, easily provable as false accusations would work better, maybe. But I still cannot see how having armors that don't look (emphasis on look, because it really has no bearing on which gender can actually wear it) explicitely female would help in making those baseless accusations…

 JohnHwangDD wrote:


As a rival Inquisitor, nothing would please me more than to subject a unit of Battle Sisters to such a "simple examination".

Which, BTW, is hugely invasive and degrading.

Which is why, as a rival Inquisitor, I'd do it. Not because I gave the slightest care as to the accusation or the result, but because it is a demonstration of power over the Ecclesiarchy.

And doing so to Battle Sisters is especially powerful, because you necessarily strip them of their armor in the process.

One thing that I feel is sometimes overlooked is that the majority of the people of the Imperium actually believe in and honestly worship the God-Emperor in a way that is often alien to us but would be more familiar to those of centuries past.

So even cynical individuals like Commissar Cain and Amberley Vail who have seen the best and worst the galaxy has to offer are in fact still true believers in Him.

The fact that the Sororitas do seem to be above all else faithful servants of His will does given them, IMO at least a unique place in the 40k universe.

Besides, blood tests aren't especially invasive or degrading...

I don't even know what happened to the question i originally asked....

I'm beyond hoping that this thread will ever get back on topic but it has kept me entertained for a while at least.

Well the basic premise that you opened the thread with is something only GW, and even then a limited number of employees of GW, can answer.

Consequently it wasn't ever going to go beyond "nobody knows" and stay on topic.

We can never no for sure, but let me offer this.

Grey Knights got a printed codex, without any new models or units.

Adepta Sororitas could have gotten a Grey Knights style codex with minimal effort, and produced a profit. The codexes would have sold to existing AS players, the codex completionists, and players looking to add a new army to their collection. The model sales would have increased as well, because some people would ineviatabley been tempted.

Seeing that an Adepta Sororitas Codex release, even Grey Knights style, would have been profitable, what are logical reasons it hasn';t been done ?

I. GW has no faith in Adepta Sororitas sales, but hasn't squatted them, because the minimal cost of producing existing models means it's still profitable to sell them.

II. Grey Knights sytle codex release is in the works

III. Dark Eldar Style Revamp, with new plastic models and Codex is in the works

 Azreal13 wrote:
Well the basic premise that you opened the thread with is something only GW, and even then a limited number of employees of GW, can answer.

Consequently it wasn't ever going to go beyond "nobody knows" and stay on topic.

The first question was what are games workshop doing and it was pretty quickly established that it was most likely nothing...
That then led to a follow up question of what can we, if there is a demand (as i believe there to be), to motivate GW to stick some resources on it.

Essentially what we found was there was a discussion on whether there was actually a large enough demand for GW to see any business sense in dedicating resources to a project like reviving sisters. That is a fair argument to have as we have no real data to support either conclusion. What we can say though is that neither do GW.

Therefore it would make sense to actually try to gather this information. Once you have that data you can then see whether there is a high demand for new sisters models and this could be put to GW. They are a PLC therefore they have an AGM and members are entitled to attend and are then in a position to put any findings forward and demand that GW look into it further in front of other shareholders, essentially calling the board out.

This may well be ignored by GW but there is a maybe 1% chance that GW might actively source further data if it is presented on the grounds that it would be in GWs interest to do it to increase revenue.

This is not beyond the realms of possibility and based on a number of assumptions not least the notion that GW bases its business decisions on logic (as they dont appear to) but is either way a means of putting the whole argument about sisters to bed.

What we got instead was a debate on the femininity of the armour on SOB and whether it was appropriate and tangent upon tangent.

What i would like to do is have a discussion on whether a questionnaire could be put together and circulated in a number of communities in a format that could be verified to give a reasoned statistical analysis of where sisters lie in terms of popularity and the interest and potential buying power of gamers and collectors across GWs target market.

Would anyone be up for this kind of thing?
I know I would put some hours into it. I personally travel across the country for work and so would have no issue in gaining data from a number of communities in the UK. What i would also need is for other people to collect data from people at their GW, gaming club etc. and return it for it all the be collated and analysed.
If at that point it became evident there was insufficient evidence to support the notion that it was in the company's interest to pursue a development of the sisters line i would leave it there and publish the results on the main 40k forums.

Otherwise I'd personally buy shares in the company to attend the AGM in Nottingham. I work half the time in Birmingham as it is so it's not far away to present my findings and urge GW to do something.

Now I have seen through this forum, and another which popped up about the same time and ran alongside this one, a number of different views on the SoB line I see there is some support and people with similar experience of speaking to others who share their interest in a potential new AS release it gives me more inclination to put a plan like this in to action..

At least if GW don't utilise and finding it may produce it may at least help settle the debate on the supply and demand issue.

EDIT ... spelling

 adamsouza wrote:
Grey Knights got a printed codex, without any new models or units.

We got that twice so far. Actually we have fewer minis for sale than any other time than second edition.

It also very difficult to guess what GW will or won;t do next

They have recently been brinign out niche armies - anyone thought a couple of years ago we would have see the Harlequins, Deathwatch or Gensetealer Cult stuff - especially the latter?

Sisters would fit nicely in here - so there is perhaps even less reason than normal to suggest they will not happen.

Deathwatch and GS cult was a genuine shock, but Harlequins got brought back in 4th edition. That was more of "we're tired of trying to make one unit entry in two books identical" (note that Daemon Princes and the five flavours of power armor technically have different rules) so they just shunted them into their own dex.

The Skitarii were a bigger shock; I doubt many of the current players even knew what Skitarii meant until they were introduced.

 Melissia wrote:
We got that twice so far.

Well, not really: he said printed codex .
I think he did meant that we got even less than GK, so his argument is fair.

Oooh. I stand corrected.

Pouncey wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
considering how much complaining and fighting has been done on the topic of sister of battle and how they need a new model line, if GW ever does release new SoB codex and model line I would want them to sell out instantly and if they didn't I would want GW to say Feth it and Squat the whole line

For all the complaining and fighting that goes on page after page.... you'll note it's the same handful of people throughout the thread, which is the same handful of people through the previous thread, which was they same handful of people through the previous previous thread

Goodness knows realistically how many people would want Sisters if new models came out, these days because of the extremely lax 40k rules I guess a lot of people might want to buy allied contingents of them.

I brought up plastic Sisters of Battle with my local gaming store's... employee who happened to be working that day. He said I'd never be able to buy any of the store's supply because he was going to buy it all.

Maybe it's just that most of the people who might play the faction if it had plastic models simply avoid these threads since they're not very fun, and they realize posting about it's not going to make it happen.

Pouncey wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
considering how much complaining and fighting has been done on the topic of sister of battle and how they need a new model line, if GW ever does release new SoB codex and model line I would want them to sell out instantly and if they didn't I would want GW to say Feth it and Squat the whole line

For all the complaining and fighting that goes on page after page.... you'll note it's the same handful of people throughout the thread, which is the same handful of people through the previous thread, which was they same handful of people through the previous previous thread

Goodness knows realistically how many people would want Sisters if new models came out, these days because of the extremely lax 40k rules I guess a lot of people might want to buy allied contingents of them.

I brought up plastic Sisters of Battle with my local gaming store's... employee who happened to be working that day. He said I'd never be able to buy any of the store's supply because he was going to buy it all.

Maybe it's just that most of the people who might play the faction if it had plastic models simply avoid these threads since they're not very fun, and they realize posting about it's not going to make it happen.

So there are two people on the entire planet who will buy them by your example. Extrapolating that out doesn't mean that every customer at every LGS across the world and every employee at every LGS across the world will buy them.

With their current social media presence, I'm shocked nobody has tried to get some sort of poll or something going on their Facebook page for people to try to register interest in SOB. I'd vote.

Petitions have been done, they didnt work. The buy a sister day didnt work. It makes no sense to think GW is waiting to sell off models they could just drop in the pot, melt down and sell the metal off from before they move on to plastic sisters. Housing them for decades already boxed makes no sense. Nevermind that the molds wouldnt go bad if they hadnt been being used and they wouldnt come in white blisters if they were packaged oh so long ago.

Sisters may be in the pipeline, nothing we do will change whether they are or arent. We keep resetting the clock on "plastic sisters" vs "squat sisters" rumors ever few months for how long now? We are doing just fine with our dex, a sisters update will come "if" and "when". I will believe it when I can buy it, and am praying they dont mess it up.

I count a handful of codexes far more needy of an update than Sisters. Chaos Marines and Orks qualify for sure.

Though personally I think I would rather just keep waiting.

I’m not going to address all these recent comments as it’s too much, so I’ll just make a general statement of how I feel. I like the current aesthetic for Sisters throwing sexual imagery, sci-fi tech, bob cuts and medieval religious themes into a blender creates a distinct and iconic look which is

something that is hard to achieve (someone earlier said they were generic which I strongly disagree). That being said some posters have talked about concerns "cheese cake" while I don't think sexualizing in itself is bad, I do find it hard to find a female GW mini that isn't sexualized or an

attempt at being conventionally attractive to some degree. Where as with the male ones you get all kinds of different representation which I feel is problematic in these settings where sex and sexuality isn't that important of a theme. Some people have proposed a more "sensible" or "bulky"

look for Sisters which I think is wrong-headed too because we already have an imperial faction that empathizes a more practical look called Imperial Guard and on the bulky side of things we have Space Marines. I feel by going for styles that more closely resemble that, Sisters become less

distinguished from other Imperials and therefore less interesting in their aesthetic, Sisters ought to be over the top not believable. So, keep the current visual style of emphasizing female form with sci-fi gothic as it allows them to stand out, just update it since GW has become more

technically gifted at making miniatures. And expand the variety of other female minis (as well as some unconventional looking gals like the female Ogre Maneater) through armies that do have a “utilitarian” look like Tau and Imperial Guard (this wouldn’t work with Eldar and their more evil kin

as they have designs that emphasizes body shape both amongst males and females). I feel like this would reduce some of the complaints of “cheese cake” while still satisfying the fans who like the current sisters.

 dracpanzer wrote:
We are doing just fine with our dex

Not really. At best, we're in the lower end of the metagame, if you build your list in a very specific way and your opponent doesn't know what to expect from Sisters. And that says nothing about the expensive, mediocre metal miniatures.

 Melissia wrote:
Not really. At best, we're in the lower end of the metagame, if you build your list in a very specific way and your opponent doesn't know what to expect from Sisters. And that says nothing about the expensive, mediocre metal miniatures.

There are really only three stinkerish units in the dex. Repentia are problematic to use, but still good when they get stuck in. PenEngines are in my mind a few too many points for what they give me. If they could ride in a drop pod I would take them every game, but in competitive games they stay at home. Celestians just dont seem to have a proper focus, biggest disappointment of the dex. Ive had and seen a hundred ways to "fix" them but as of now they are just not worth playing.

On the flip side there are a lot of really great units in the dex. Dominions, St. Celestine, Priests and the Repressor are all top notch. The Exorcist, Retributors, Seraphim, Immolator/Rhino with 6++, Uriah, and even the BSS in a transport are all what I would call not great, but above average. YMMV of course, but I disagree completely that you have to tailor your list just to get to the lower end of the metagame.

Being predictable with an army isnt the fault of the armies codex. I have spent a small fortune on my Sisters, and have been collecting them since they first arrived in stores. That isnt the fault of the codex. I have always enjoyed the look of the figures and think they have held up really well. Its a matter of taste, nothing new about folks being divided over an armies aesthetic. I like my Sisters way over the top religious types of crazy and for me at least they deliver.

i wouldn't call the majority of the models mediocre at all...
i love the look of everything but the Repentia, and even those are better than some of the stinkers in other ranges...
i'm looking at you, Mutilators :(

Celestine, Uriah, and all the PA girls are awesome minis...
i don't even mind metal at all, but if i am going to replace mine, plastic would definitely give me more incentive

cheers
jah

 dracpanzer wrote:
There are really only three stinkerish units in the dex.

In a codex with barely a dozen or so units, "only" three units sucking is a big deal.

 jah-joshua wrote:
i wouldn't call the majority of the models mediocre at all...
i love the look of everything but the Repentia, and even those are better than some of the stinkers in other ranges...
i'm looking at you, Mutilators :(

Celestine, Uriah, and all the PA girls are awesome minis...
i don't even mind metal at all, but if i am going to replace mine, plastic would definitely give me more incentive

cheers
jah

Yeah, the Repentia models look lame compared to the art, in the art they're like mutilating themselves with religious artifacts that's fethed up and cool, instead we get leather S&M girls...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
I am not sure what you are trying to argue?

Nothing you posted either refuted or added to what you quoted. Did you intend to quote someone else?

WTF? You said armor didn't have to express gender.

Via the enormous armored codpiece, I demonstrated that it definitely did.

Just because armor can be used to express gender (which on one is disagreeing with) doesn't mean it has to.

I've stayed out of this for a while because the discussion got a bit daft.

I like the current aesthetic. I like the idea of wimples, indeed there's some 2nd Edition art of a Canoness with a wimple smiting heretics.

I really, really like the style of armour - the robes, the clean lines, the over-corset, the medieval-religious-gothic-SF baroque feel - it's all part and parcel of the Ecclesiarchy in general and the Sisters in particular.

I don't think that any update would need to make any actual aesthetic changes! Just shift the existing style into plastic, and give us some more head options - scarred, bionic-eyed, wimple, helmets, etc.

 Melissia wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:
There are really only three stinkerish units in the dex.

In a codex with barely a dozen or so units, "only" three units sucking is a big deal.

I didnt say they suck. Two of them only smell off because they struggle to hold a candle to how good the rest are.

Repentia are awesome when they get close and are very good at killing Tanks of all kinds, takes work to get them there but the reward is well worth it. Rhino castle across the table with a mantle canoness to tank and they will get stuck in. Invisibility of course makes them very interesting, if you like witch filth in your lists.....

I struggle with PenEngines because they are instantly targeted the moment they have a glimmer of hope of getting stuck in. Its hard to quantify the value a unit has when it draws fire better spent on other targets, I dont even try. Mine usually kill something or act as a huge area denial threat. They just dont usually kill 80 points each. Probably more than equals out in the end, but its opponent dependent enough for me to usually leave them at home when I know I will be playing against meta packed lists.

They actually look to be getting a buff from the FAQ's but nobody here is using them for anything until they are "official" so I couldnt say.

Personally I would consider both Repentia and PenEngines "top notch" if they had a formation (tank canoness, 2-3 units of Repentia, 1-3 units of PenEngines) that gave them +1 to their Shield of Faith and the ability to attack in close combat even if they were slain before making their own attacks at their initiative.

Which leads the only real "stinker" unit being the Celestians. Simply because the unit just seems like nobody knew what to do with them. Furious assault just doesnt amount to much on a model that cant be equipped with close combat weapons. Consequently they dont compare to Repentia in assaults OR compare to the BSS in shooting. If they could be taken in squads of 20 it might be entertaining to use them for a Priest blob, I like that idea. But again, you cant. They arent horrible as they are, they just dont measure up compared to the BSS, which is why nobody tells anyone on the internet to take them.

Like I said hundreds of ways to fix Celestians, and still nobody at GW knows what they want to do with them.

I wouldnt disagree that Celestians "suck" compared to the rest in the dex. Or that Repentia and PenEngines are problematic to use but great when they work, so call them, average? They definitely do not "suck". The rest of the units in the dex are easily in the "good" category and at least three I would elevate into the "great" category.

All of which adds up to the point of my original point. The Sisters codex is just fine compared to others, and a good handful are far more deserving of an update.

You're showing some very low standards for what does and does not suck considering today's metagame.

Well they work well for me. Repentia have shown well in recent tourneys out west (panzer leader iirc? not sure which event) so I can only go off what I know.

I dont need or want the Sisters dex to be an auto win.

Sisters arent as bad as you think.

There are dex's out there that are far worse.

Most of the units are good - they don't have any formations and also most importantly the super OP cheese formations of the 7.5 edition dexes.

Adepta Sororitas just need a formation that allows them free transports, and they'll be good as gold.

 dracpanzer wrote:


There are dex's out there that are far worse.

I'd say Sisters need an update more than anyone.

I've been digging through the Exorcist kit and I'm now wondering just how many different vehicles you could stick in one kit. Two upper hulls (the normal one and the Repressor one), extra armour inserts, the Immolator turret, the Exorcist launcher, and a couple of pintle weapon options and you've got four vehicles in one box (five, if you can stick a Predator-variant main turret in there).

(Also one of the flagpole topper bits (which I'm not sure has a more correct name, though Wikipedia suggests 'finial') is a single skull in a reliquary, and the next one is four skulls on top of each other, and I suddenly had a mental image of a pair of Sororitas vehicle crews having a one-upmanship competition with the size of their reliquaries)

(That or an Aesop-style ending. 'And how many skulls are in your reliquary, Sister Ophelia?' 'One. But that one is Saint Yorick.')

 adamsouza wrote:
Adepta Sororitas just need a formation that allows them free transports, and they'll be good as gold.

Nope. We need far more than that. In fact, GW could afford to triple the size of the army list and it'd be just about right, with plenty of room for future expansion.

Having the same things as before repetitively shat out with minimal effort is what we currently get, we don't need more of that. We need GW to put some actual effort in to it, not this lazy non-solution you're suggesting.

I know you think it's okay for GW to be lazy, but I don't.

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