Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Zywus wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
I much prefer Subtle Discord's shield generator. Plus, it actually has glowing plasma. And it is roughly the same price.

Spoiler:

Subtle Disord?
It's "Dark Works" that sells that one isn't it?
http://thedarkworks.bigcartel.com/product/arcis-pattern-mk-i-hvy-shield-generator

Subtle Discord is the guy who makes it. He has a wip forum on Bolter and Chainsword.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page-37

I will be so broke soon...

From deathwatch to HH board game with MKIII, to VSG, to Kill Team.

streetsamurai wrote:120 cad for the generator and 43 cad for Kharn !!!!

After the reasonably priced watchmaster (30$), I tought GW were adopting a more sensible pricing strategy. Seem like they have no idea where they are going

Sadly instead of the saviour that alot of people were hoping Kevin Roundtree is, I guess he is a Master Magician. GW is now all Smoke and Mirrors. Same old same old. I really have no faith in the new 40K 8th edition. I hope I am wrong, I really do, but now the pattern of GW pricing is coming out, it's just smoke and mirrors. The box sets look like GW is a great deal and once you start buying them and only want individual kits, you still have to pay through the roof.

Just look at Nids. Want anything else besides a Hive Tyrant, Warriors and Gargoyles there are no savings now for them. So has GW really changed? Yeah they have changed with a cheaper buy in, but to stay you still need to pay.

Maybe the Age of Roundtree will not last long after all. Smoke and Mirrors. While people love magic tricks and shows, they still don't like to be considered suckers to keep continuing. Until 8th edition comes out for the Real GW to see where they are, right now, GW is till making crap rules. Just look at the CSM new psychic powers. Same old GW.

Again, I hope I am proven wrong but now would be a good time to change the rules to a better system not a year from now.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

 Zywus wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
I much prefer Subtle Discord's shield generator. Plus, it actually has glowing plasma. And it is roughly the same price.

Spoiler:

Subtle Disord?
It's "Dark Works" that sells that one isn't it?
http://thedarkworks.bigcartel.com/product/arcis-pattern-mk-i-hvy-shield-generator

Subtle Discord is the guy who makes it. He has a wip forum on Bolter and Chainsword.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page-37

Ah, I see.
I followed his log on Warseer where I believe he went under a different alias.

Davor wrote:

streetsamurai wrote:120 cad for the generator and 43 cad for Kharn !!!!

After the reasonably priced watchmaster (30$), I tought GW were adopting a more sensible pricing strategy. Seem like they have no idea where they are going

Sadly instead of the saviour that alot of people were hoping Kevin Roundtree is, I guess he is a Master Magician. GW is now all Smoke and Mirrors. Same old same old. I really have no faith in the new 40K 8th edition. I hope I am wrong, I really do, but now the pattern of GW pricing is coming out, it's just smoke and mirrors. The box sets look like GW is a great deal and once you start buying them and only want individual kits, you still have to pay through the roof.

Just look at Nids. Want anything else besides a Hive Tyrant, Warriors and Gargoyles there are no savings now for them. So has GW really changed? Yeah they have changed with a cheaper buy in, but to stay you still need to pay.

Maybe the Age of Roundtree will not last long after all. Smoke and Mirrors. While people love magic tricks and shows, they still don't like to be considered suckers to keep continuing. Until 8th edition comes out for the Real GW to see where they are, right now, GW is till making crap rules. Just look at the CSM new psychic powers. Same old GW.

Again, I hope I am proven wrong but now would be a good time to change the rules to a better system not a year from now.

What should they do, then? Make products at a loss?

You claiming Roundtree's effort as "smoke and mirrors" is silly. If you can't afford it, there is nothing Roundtree can do. These are niche products requiring a plastic mold. That's a very expensive combination.

GW's pricing is not easily fixable until there are more players. There won't be more players until the game is fixed. Roundtree is trying to fix the game. Once completed, the prices come down. There is no smoke and mirrors involved, just a long, drawn-out recovery from the garbage heap he inherited. It may take through 8th ed to fix the game. If so, and if he keeps doing everything else to fix the game, I am willing to wait.

If 8th is just as bad as 7th, then feth it.

 JimOnMars wrote:
Roundtree is trying to fix the game.

Is that why we're getting a supplement made out of cut content from two reprints as well as copies of loyalist powers with new spooky names?

At this point, I would rather them wait to release the good stuff until the next codex/edition. Let them put up mediocre rules to help sell the models in the time being.

 zedmeister wrote:
Nice to see the generator actually being put into production properly. That was a stupid decision to make [limiting the original release] and just seemed to add to the view that GW doesn't know what the feth they are doing.

Also, Haha at those who have a stockpile of them for resale and those that paid silly prices from scrapers

Now, about the plasma obliterator...

Hope we see them soon. When I got to Sweden to study in September the FLGS had 4 so I told the 40K apoc group back home in 'Murica and yep, they wanted all of those plasma obliterators. But yeah, would love to have a few more for the tables.

My hopes of having useful chaos marines is getting dashed with each new rumor release. No legions, khorne focused, no new points. Le sigh.

 Zywus wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

 Zywus wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
I much prefer Subtle Discord's shield generator. Plus, it actually has glowing plasma. And it is roughly the same price.

Spoiler:

Subtle Disord?
It's "Dark Works" that sells that one isn't it?
http://thedarkworks.bigcartel.com/product/arcis-pattern-mk-i-hvy-shield-generator

Subtle Discord is the guy who makes it. He has a wip forum on Bolter and Chainsword.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page-37

Ah, I see.
I followed his log on Warseer where I believe he went under a different alias.

I have no other alias, I am Subtle Discord! *Cough!* ok, maybe not so melodramatic, but I have no other handles. I have a clone WIP log here at Dakka as well, that now shows the same content that all of my 'Legion Rising' logs contain, but my B&C WIP log is the longest, reaching all the way back to my first post.

If people like the current small selection of what I have to offer, just wait, this is just the beginning. I'm taking my final thesis year at college studying Industrial Design (so I can even better at making awesome stuff!) and once that's finished spring 2017, The Dark Works will become a full-time endeavor, and I have much more planned.

In closing, my shop is about quality over quantity, so look closely at the pictures of my kits. What you see is exactly what you'll get. I pride myself on the fit, finish, and execution of every kit I produce now, and plan to produce in the future. I hope to become the official unofficial 'other' Forge World, so to speak.

JimOnMars wrote:
What should they do, then? Make products at a loss?

You claiming Roundtree's effort as "smoke and mirrors" is silly. If you can't afford it, there is nothing Roundtree can do. These are niche products requiring a plastic mold. That's a very expensive combination.

GW's pricing is not easily fixable until there are more players. There won't be more players until the game is fixed. Roundtree is trying to fix the game. Once completed, the prices come down. There is no smoke and mirrors involved, just a long, drawn-out recovery from the garbage heap he inherited. It may take through 8th ed to fix the game. If so, and if he keeps doing everything else to fix the game, I am willing to wait.

If 8th is just as bad as 7th, then feth it.

Make a product at a loss? Give me a break there would be more sales. For the longest time, I say from 2000-2010 it showed people are willing to accept crap/poor/poorly written rules and still stay with GW. But GW finally priced themselves out for a lot of people. So yes, lower your prices to get those people back again. People will not come back if the prices are not lowered. The smoke and mirrors of these new boxsets looked like GW changed, and heck even I started buying again, but now all I see that these "get started now sets" are nothing but the free "plastic crack hit" to get you in or come back. . Thing is, for a lot of people coming in new, they will shocked to see the rest of the game is still expensive to play and will not be sticking around. So how is GW going to get back all those people who left? How is GW going to get those people who started to keep buying?

Time will tell. So far time is telling that in the 5 months, January to May the "get started boxsets" are not working and people are not buying after they are bought the Get Started Box sets. I know I haven't bought anything for my armies after getting the boxsets since I don't see the value in them. Plastic crack will only take the company so far and people get cured real fast when they see the prices of the other products that you can't buy in a Get Started box set.

So GW will need to start lowering their prices if they want people to start seeing the value on the whole, not just getting into it. Right now especially the mess that the 40K rules are in right now, there is no value for a lot of people. For some there is, but they are not buying enough to keep giving GW profits anymore.

 buddha wrote:
My hopes of having useful chaos marines is getting dashed with each new rumor release. No legions, khorne focused, no new points. Le sigh.

The optimist in me hopes that the Black crusade series and Fenris part two are being used to prepare the ground for a new codex. The pessimist thinks that they are throwing Chaos a minimum effort bone. Guess time will tell

Well... the more rumors on this *potential* chaos release... ie: 'Traitors Hate'

the less I give a feth.


*If* these rumors are right, it stinks of yet another disjointed Black Legion 'chaos undivided but totally clueless on the battlefield' book with useless formations. This, mashed with Crimson Slaughter because they're still trying to shift posessed models.

This appears to be going in the same Khorne-fest direction that AoS went in with some 'undivided' for everyone else.



Guess my money will go towards another couple of boxes of plastic Vikings and Saxons in that case.

$100 for the plastic VSG?

If I ever get around to it, I'll just stick to my plan of buying an Imperial Bastion or Mechanicum building set from a discounter and $12 plasma ball from Amazon. Congrats, GW, instead of getting me to buy a shiny new kit, I'll just buy an older one instead and a third party piece to go with it.

Davor wrote:

JimOnMars wrote:
What should they do, then? Make products at a loss?

You claiming Roundtree's effort as "smoke and mirrors" is silly. If you can't afford it, there is nothing Roundtree can do. These are niche products requiring a plastic mold. That's a very expensive combination.

GW's pricing is not easily fixable until there are more players. There won't be more players until the game is fixed. Roundtree is trying to fix the game. Once completed, the prices come down. There is no smoke and mirrors involved, just a long, drawn-out recovery from the garbage heap he inherited. It may take through 8th ed to fix the game. If so, and if he keeps doing everything else to fix the game, I am willing to wait.

If 8th is just as bad as 7th, then feth it.

Make a product at a loss? Give me a break there would be more sales. For the longest time, I say from 2000-2010 it showed people are willing to accept crap/poor/poorly written rules and still stay with GW. But GW finally priced themselves out for a lot of people. So yes, lower your prices to get those people back again. People will not come back if the prices are not lowered. The smoke and mirrors of these new boxsets looked like GW changed, and heck even I started buying again, but now all I see that these "get started now sets" are nothing but the free "plastic crack hit" to get you in or come back. . Thing is, for a lot of people coming in new, they will shocked to see the rest of the game is still expensive to play and will not be sticking around. So how is GW going to get back all those people who left? How is GW going to get those people who started to keep buying?

Time will tell. So far time is telling that in the 5 months, January to May the "get started boxsets" are not working and people are not buying after they are bought the Get Started Box sets. I know I haven't bought anything for my armies after getting the boxsets since I don't see the value in them. Plastic crack will only take the company so far and people get cured real fast when they see the prices of the other products that you can't buy in a Get Started box set.

So GW will need to start lowering their prices if they want people to start seeing the value on the whole, not just getting into it. Right now especially the mess that the 40K rules are in right now, there is no value for a lot of people. For some there is, but they are not buying enough to keep giving GW profits anymore.

Firstly, people will have less of an issue with price if they're enthusiastic to play the game. There's a line, of course, but a better game is quite possibly a bigger priority for a return to growth than lower prices. Perhaps not for you personally, but you aren't every GW customer.

Secondly, GW reported a much better second half (January to May) than first half. So if it isn't the SC boxes, what is it?

You will not see a lowering of prices. You will continue to see an increase in value, if that isn't enough for you, then your GW journey is likely already over for you.

For me, it lives or dies by what happens with 8th 40K, prices be damned.

 Wulfmar wrote:
Well... the more rumors on this *potential* chaos release... ie: 'Traitors Hate'

the less I give a feth.


*If* these rumors are right, it stinks of yet another disjointed Black Legion 'chaos undivided but totally clueless on the battlefield' book with useless formations. This, mashed with Crimson Slaughter because they're still trying to shift posessed models.

This appears to be going in the same Khorne-fest direction that AoS went in with some 'undivided' for everyone else.



Guess my money will go towards another couple of boxes of plastic Vikings and Saxons in that case.

At the very least Age of Sigmar had the nurgle stuff from End Times and new Tzeentch stuff from Silver Towers.

 RustyKnight wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Roundtree is trying to fix the game.

Is that why we're getting a supplement made out of cut content from two reprints as well as copies of loyalist powers with new spooky names?

Oh I didn't realize you had the supplement already what else is in the book?

Kharn at $33? Makes sense. It's not as low as some of the recent clampacks but it is a named character vs a generic. Lower demand for a chqracter tied to 1/4 of one army vs generics thay can be used by anyone. And deathwatch are especially low since a small team of them make a good allied detachment. I'm expecting Eldrad to be 33 or 36 as well.

 Azreal13 wrote:

For me, it lives or dies by what happens with 8th 40K, prices be damned.

Pretty much this.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

 Zywus wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
I much prefer Subtle Discord's shield generator. Plus, it actually has glowing plasma. And it is roughly the same price.

Spoiler:

Subtle Disord?
It's "Dark Works" that sells that one isn't it?
http://thedarkworks.bigcartel.com/product/arcis-pattern-mk-i-hvy-shield-generator

Subtle Discord is the guy who makes it. He has a wip forum on Bolter and Chainsword.

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241839-legion-rising/page-37

That's a sweet VSG
But the problem I have with this and GW vsg is most people play the 3 shield relay and 3 of either of those is $300 and a ton of space on the board. However most times I see people play it with 1 vsg representing 3 building relays but I don't think that is kosher.

Azreal13 wrote:
Firstly, people will have less of an issue with price if they're enthusiastic to play the game. There's a line, of course, but a better game is quite possibly a bigger priority for a return to growth than lower prices. Perhaps not for you personally, but you aren't every GW customer.

True but people are not enthusiastic to play the game. There are less and less people playing. Also it's still a years off before 8th comes in. That is still one more year where people are still not enthusiastic to play the game. You would think now with this new Chaos rules coming out would be a good time to show how GW is changing for the rules. So I guess we don't have to wait till next year, just 2 weeks and we should have our answer where GW is going with 40K rules.

Secondly, GW reported a much better second half (January to May) than first half. So if it isn't the SC boxes, what is it?

No idea. You telling me that sales in the first half really tanked that bad? After all if it wasn't for the licensing to video games there is still a 4 million pound 8 million dollar loss. So if the second half did better, than that means a huge freaking loss in the first half.

You will not see a lowering of prices. You will continue to see an increase in value, if that isn't enough for you, then your GW journey is likely already over for you.

For me, it lives or dies by what happens with 8th 40K, prices be damned.

I am not the only one who doesn't see value right now.

I agree that great clear concise rules, people will have a less of an issue purchasing high priced products. But we are not there yet for great clear concise rules are we? Are people going to wait till 8th edition? One year away is a lot of time for people to loose interest. Like I said, especially for Chaos Space Marine fans, if this new product coming out is just pathetic like a lot of people are thinking right now they are not going to have faith that 8th edition will fix it. After all they will be the last or first codex again for a new edition.

Davor wrote:

Azreal13 wrote:
Firstly, people will have less of an issue with price if they're enthusiastic to play the game. There's a line, of course, but a better game is quite possibly a bigger priority for a return to growth than lower prices. Perhaps not for you personally, but you aren't every GW customer.

True but people are not enthusiastic to play the game. There are less and less people playing. Also it's still a years off before 8th comes in. That is still one more year where people are still not enthusiastic to play the game. You would think now with this new Chaos rules coming out would be a good time to show how GW is changing for the rules. So I guess we don't have to wait till next year, just 2 weeks and we should have our answer where GW is going with 40K rules.

They're in 7th, therefore they are hard wired into the 7th way of doing things. Panda has already called this edition a dead duck from GW's perspective, and that we won't be getting any more meaningful updates. There is zero reason to expect Traitor's Hate to show anything but conformation to the established campaign book paradigm already laid down. It will be indicative of nothing to come in 8th.

Although, if the leaked power being a direct clone of a C:SM power is true, that could be a positive if it's an inclination of them making C:CSM closer in parity (and what simpler way to establish parity in the short term than mirror imaging?)

Secondly, GW reported a much better second half (January to May) than first half. So if it isn't the SC boxes, what is it?

No idea. You telling me that sales in the first half really tanked that bad? After all if it wasn't for the licensing to video games there is still a 4 million pound 8 million dollar loss. So if the second half did better, than that means a huge freaking loss in the first half.

I'm not telling you anything, GW themselves published that very thing. They had a poor first half and disappointing December, but managed to make up a lot of ground in the latter half of the year. £4m doesn't even come close to $8m, even prior to Brexit, but that's not important, their revenue YOY was about the same. Profit is no indicator in this regard, far more things can impact profit than can impact revenue. (GW claim they've reinvested a bunch of it into the retail arm, and if that isn't just spin, and it probably isn't, they actually made about the same profit as last year, they just spent more of it.)

You will not see a lowering of prices. You will continue to see an increase in value, if that isn't enough for you, then your GW journey is likely already over for you.

For me, it lives or dies by what happens with 8th 40K, prices be damned.

I am not the only one who doesn't see value right now.

Really?

Calth, Overkill, Kill team, Renegade, Stormcloud Assault, Start Collecting, £18 models free with White Dwarf, with discounted subscriptions, bundles of characters at a significant discount etc, etc, etc.

You're not seeing the value? Even when most of these are available through third parties at even further discounts?

Sorry, but there's no arguing with that - maybe you don't want to buy these things, but there's no denying the value, these discounts, when factored into the generally high quality of construction of GW kits, which arguably justifies a premium over some manufacturers (just not the premium they've been trying to extract,) make them compelling offers.

If 8th manages to make the game interesting to me to play once again, GW will have turned things around completely for me. But that is the biggest and hardest one of all.

without jumping into aos being better for 40k, I would gladly prefer a 7th with nerfed invi, charging passengers from stationary vehicles, option to disembark from a chariot, and faq refinement

Davor wrote:

streetsamurai wrote:120 cad for the generator and 43 cad for Kharn !!!!

After the reasonably priced watchmaster (30$), I tought GW were adopting a more sensible pricing strategy. Seem like they have no idea where they are going

Sadly instead of the saviour that alot of people were hoping Kevin Roundtree is, I guess he is a Master Magician. GW is now all Smoke and Mirrors. Same old same old. I really have no faith in the new 40K 8th edition. I hope I am wrong, I really do, but now the pattern of GW pricing is coming out, it's just smoke and mirrors. The box sets look like GW is a great deal and once you start buying them and only want individual kits, you still have to pay through the roof.

Just look at Nids. Want anything else besides a Hive Tyrant, Warriors and Gargoyles there are no savings now for them. So has GW really changed? Yeah they have changed with a cheaper buy in, but to stay you still need to pay.

Maybe the Age of Roundtree will not last long after all. Smoke and Mirrors. While people love magic tricks and shows, they still don't like to be considered suckers to keep continuing. Until 8th edition comes out for the Real GW to see where they are, right now, GW is till making crap rules. Just look at the CSM new psychic powers. Same old GW.

Again, I hope I am proven wrong but now would be a good time to change the rules to a better system not a year from now.

Agreed. I've said it before but I don't really understand the love Roundtree is getting from a segment of the community. The start collecting box are not better than the old battalion boxes (in fact, they are probably worst, since they include an overpriced character, which most of the time, make buying them multiple times unappealing), and the exciting new product and armies (specialist games, genestealer cult, dw, HH) were probably initiated under Kirby., considering the lead time. I'll give him a bit of credit for making GW a bit more open, but even then, that is pretty much the least of my concern.
I guess it's a typical crowd reaction. A bit like how politician are always highly regarded not long after they enter office, even if they don't change the policies of their predecessor

Warhams-77 wrote:Via War of Sigmar

Spoiler:

H.B.M.C. wrote:A 42% price increase?

That's nice. Thanks GW.

One step forward, 2 steps back

Wasn't it $100 last time?

 VeteranNoob wrote:
Wasn't it $100 last time?

It was the same exact price!
Don't mind them. They just want to cry about anything GW do.
However on the flip side polystone is a much better detail material than plastic so I do expect a small degradation in quality however polystone does weight a ton.

Am I the only one who's noticed that it says it comes on seven sprues?

 Ghaz wrote:
Am I the only one who's noticed that it says it comes on seven sprues?

With scenery, the number of sprues hardly indicates anything. If sprues mean 'frames that are separate in a box", then Overlord Bastion (Chaos Dreadhold) alone comes with 12 or so sprues.

Unless GW are using sliding molds, the pillars alone require at least four parts each. That easily fills one sprue that would be duplicated four times. I'm looking forward to see how this is made in plastic.

did anyone bother to see if you can connect the promethium pipes to the VSG?