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Pretty sure this is the right area to post this.

So, I bought the Deathwatch codex, Cassius Command Squad, a Strategium Command Team, and an extra Kill Team the other day. Super psyched then I cracked open the codex and couldn't find anything on the Cassius Kill Team which irked me but then had trouble understanding the Force Organization, or lack thereof, of the Deathwatch. I was hoping for some clarification on this as well as a few other things.

First, correct me if I'm wrong but from what I understand the Deathwatch utilize "formations" en lieu of the standard force organization. That being the case, would he Cassius Squad be considered its own formation? I mean, it's made up of a biker, a terminator, etc and according to what I'm reading a terminator or biker squad can be made up of a single unit. Furthermore, with these sort of formations, how does this unit move? Do the jump packs and bikes lose their movement since "The Kill Team cannot split up during the battle, even if a mode within within it has the Independent Character special rule?"

Second, can you field the different characters of the Cassius Command Squad with other units at the start of the battle? From what I've seen they can infer special rules for the units they join.

Finally, can armies include multiple formations?

It's been a while since I've played and these new rules are as clear as mud.

You can still build DW with a Force Org chart in a CAD or Allied Detachment. Each unit will have a symbol at the top denoting it's Force Org slot.

This is a pretty useful article on the complexities of 7th army construction.
http://titangamesandhobbies.com/40k-quick-tip-building-an-army-in-7th-edition/

 Eldarain wrote:
You can still build DW with a Force Org chart in a CAD or Allied Detachment. Each unit will have a symbol at the top denoting it's Force Org slot.

This is a pretty useful article on the complexities of 7th army construction.
http://titangamesandhobbies.com/40k-quick-tip-building-an-army-in-7th-edition/

Awesome! This helps things be less foggy.

The actual Kill Team Cassius has a data sheet from when the boardgame came out. Otherwise you can just use them as one of the Kill Team formations in the codex.

Hi there, I'll try to shed a little light but as you say the new army construction rules can be a little overwhelming.

Firstly the deathwatch cassius miniatures can be used in a couple of ways:
Firstly you can just use them as standard models equipped as modelled at put them in the appropriate squads.
Secondly there are rules on the gw website (look under deathwatch overkill) for the actual character models, they have a special formation that can be fielded but each model has its own data sheet that shows what battlefield role they have.

On to the different ways you can make an army.

You can still make a standard CAD with deathwatch using the normal chart in the main rulebook (hq plus 2 troops then more troops and 3 each heavy/fast/elite). Or an allied detachment which is again the the main rulebook. Each of the units in the deathwatch codex (and the cassius download) has a symbol at the top of there data sheet which denotes there role so you know where to fit them in the force organisation chart.

If you not using a cad then you can build the army out of individual formations which are described in the back of the codex and each will explain what units and rules are included in each. You can use as many formations in your army as you can fit within the points. This is where you can take the special cassius formation.

There is also a mega formation in the codex which instructs you on how to build an army using a specific set of formation that fit into specific slots, quite restrictive but you get some bonus rules for doing it.

Finally you can mix and match a combination of the above

Hope that's of some help, the dorritos and beer are in the post

Okay, so another question.

When reading the veterans wargear options it says they can take items from the Melee, Heavy, Ranged, and/or Special Weapons list. Unlike the other entries it doesn't specify the points cost. In the back of the codex it doesn't either.

Does this mean that the options cost no additional points to Deathwatch Veterans?

There is a master wargear list just before the unit entries.

 Eldarain wrote:
There is a master wargear list just before the unit entries.

Doh! Found it! I was digging through the back of the book.

I'm still very lost and confused as to having kill teams with bikes and terminators etc. it makes no sense, in any way shape or form. It seems silly to just avoid the kill teams.

it's certainly differant, and will take some getting used to but I think I see some ways you can use it. (terminators kill teamed with standard veterns seems very doable. I'm thinking 1 or two with cyclone missile launchers, a stormshield and a power weapon of some type would be a pretty scary combo

 Spetsnaz0129 wrote:
I'm still very lost and confused as to having kill teams with bikes and terminators etc. it makes no sense, in any way shape or form. It seems silly to just avoid the kill teams.

Well they do add something to units. Termies add heavy weapons or 2+ save tankers at front, bikes confer faster in-unit movement for repositioning, split fire etc.

But yeah oddity. Termies with heavy weapon are probably most useful in those.

tneva82 wrote:

 Spetsnaz0129 wrote:
I'm still very lost and confused as to having kill teams with bikes and terminators etc. it makes no sense, in any way shape or form. It seems silly to just avoid the kill teams.

Well they do add something to units. Termies add heavy weapons or 2+ save tankers at front, bikes confer faster in-unit movement for repositioning, split fire etc.

But yeah oddity. Termies with heavy weapon are probably most useful in those.

they also give a partiuclar rule to the unit. bikers give split fire, vanguard vets give heroic intervention, and terminators give fearless.

a terminator in a squad of standard power armor is normal eneugh that people know how to do it (what with many ICs haveing access to terminator armor, if you've not had a terminator in a squad of PA you at least know how it'd work) the bikes and assault marines yeah are definatly gonna throw people.

Having some assault marines in a different squad gives them re-roll on charge (if you don't use their jump pack to move). On top of that I definitely see some potential for movement shenanigans with the jump marines jumping forward in a line to create a very small charge distance.

DaPino wrote:
Having some assault marines in a different squad gives them re-roll on charge (if you don't use their jump pack to move). On top of that I definitely see some potential for movement shenanigans with the jump marines jumping forward in a line to create a very small charge distance.

yeah, I imagine smarter players then I will develop some intreasting stragetiums to take advantage of assault marines. I could see bikes being used to tank AP 2 attacks with their jink saves and 5 toughness

It's also cheaper to put a terminator in a kill team , than it is to get another veteran with a powerfist.

so 47 points gets you a 3+ save, 2 PF attacks and special issue ammo

42 points gets you a 2+/5++ , 2 PF attacks ,fearless and a stormbolter.

Not a bad choice if you want to add a close combat deterant.

The kill teams are going to take some getting used to but in sort of drooling at the fact that ALL your terminators can take an assault cannon, if you want. On top of that, the veteran squad can not only all take Infernus Bolters but can also move and shoot with them.

The more I look at the codex the more I realize how ridiculously overpowered this army is. Finding the balance between crazy firepower and assault will be a chalange for me.

Since no one has said it specifically that I can see, the Cassius Kill team from Deathwatch Overkill is a Chaplain lead Strategium Command Team formation as listed on page 97 of the codex. It includes Cassius who is a chaplain plus an Aquila kill team formation as listed on page 91. The Aquila kill time includes a unit of veterans and 1 terminator, a couple vanguard veterans and a bike. If you look at the pic for the Aquila kill team formation it is the Cassius kill team minis, minus Cassius himself.

Yes the combo of vets, bikes, terminators and assault marines with jump packs in a single squad is kind of crazy and opens up a lot of confuse as to how each works and moves within that context. They really needed to spell out how they work together in the book, but they don't. Normally those units are never in the same squad together ever so there are no rules anywhere for how to approach the movement headaches.

The special rules added by vanguard vets, terminators and bikes are pretty cool. Especially split fire as the model with split fire doesn't need to be the one that shoots at a different target from the rest of the unit. That didn't click in my brain initially until I looked up the special rules again. Definitely a nice bonus.

 Skriker wrote:
Since no one has said it specifically that I can see, the Cassius Kill team from Deathwatch Overkill is a Chaplain lead Strategium Command Team formation as listed on page 97 of the codex. It includes Cassius who is a chaplain plus an Aquila kill team formation as listed on page 91. The Aquila kill time includes a unit of veterans and 1 terminator, a couple vanguard veterans and a bike. If you look at the pic for the Aquila kill team formation it is the Cassius kill team minis, minus Cassius himself.

Yes the combo of vets, bikes, terminators and assault marines with jump packs in a single squad is kind of crazy and opens up a lot of confuse as to how each works and moves within that context. They really needed to spell out how they work together in the book, but they don't. Normally those units are never in the same squad together ever so there are no rules anywhere for how to approach the movement headaches.

The special rules added by vanguard vets, terminators and bikes are pretty cool. Especially split fire as the model with split fire doesn't need to be the one that shoots at a different target from the rest of the unit. That didn't click in my brain initially until I looked up the special rules again. Definitely a nice bonus.

Huh...didn't realize that. That's rad.