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Use a balanced (as well as possible) system to create custom units (mostly vehicles) such as behemoth battleship tanks (think an Emperor Class Titan, but instead a giant tank/battleship) or anything in between.
I'm well aware there is/was a system in place at one point but I don't think its up to date (I cannot recall what edition it was made for or when it was created) but a new up to date one would be nice.

Having to essentially wing-it when making giant units is a pain as even if the unit is expensive in point and relatively weak to other units people have this odd aversion to custom units, I could build a giant tank with armor 10 all around it and armed with lazguns and people would not want to fight it (not that I would build such a thing....) So a "official" system to do it would probably keep peoples fears away.

Leman Russ tanks that have multiple shells, AT, HE whatever. I know that some IA or something has it... But normal IG capable of doing it would be lovly.

I'm sure there are a few things I can't think of... But that's just two.

 jreilly89 wrote:
I wish tactical marines were closer to the fluff, i.e. more points, but being tougher and boltguns being deadlier

As much as I agree, I do not think this game can achieve that while still fitting in both gretchin and GMCs in a D6 system.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It has logistical problems as well. No one wants to paint all those guardsmen necessary for a 'realistic' engagement.

 master of ordinance wrote:
-Lasguns become worth a damn; So, I fire off 145 shots at your Tactical squad and kill 8 of them? Wonderful.

-Heavy limitations on supposed "rare" and "experimental" units; because you know that Riptide? Well, fluff wise it is a prototype unit, and that Stormsurge is so rare most Tau have never seen one because it has still not been adopted for service. So how come you have three of the former and two of the latter?

-The Punisher Gatling becomes AP4 and gains Rending; it is a larger, more aggressive Assault Cannon and yet it is far less effective.

-Guard vehicles can become BS4; well, we have veteran infantry right?

-Invisibility goes; No more triple vindicator Linebreaker that cannot be shot by anything.

D becomes massively more lethal, but also becomes a hell of a lot rarer; It should utterly annihilate anything it hits, but at the same time it should be extremely restricted.

so basicly you want space marine armor to be even more useless? I'm fine with that if you're fine with your IG getting a massive points increase

BrianDavion wrote:

 master of ordinance wrote:
-Lasguns become worth a damn; So, I fire off 145 shots at your Tactical squad and kill 8 of them? Wonderful.

-Heavy limitations on supposed "rare" and "experimental" units; because you know that Riptide? Well, fluff wise it is a prototype unit, and that Stormsurge is so rare most Tau have never seen one because it has still not been adopted for service. So how come you have three of the former and two of the latter?

-The Punisher Gatling becomes AP4 and gains Rending; it is a larger, more aggressive Assault Cannon and yet it is far less effective.

-Guard vehicles can become BS4; well, we have veteran infantry right?

-Invisibility goes; No more triple vindicator Linebreaker that cannot be shot by anything.

D becomes massively more lethal, but also becomes a hell of a lot rarer; It should utterly annihilate anything it hits, but at the same time it should be extremely restricted.

so basicly you want space marine armor to be even more useless? I'm fine with that if you're fine with your IG getting a massive points increase

Given that it takes around 450 points worth of Guard (50 man blob with 5 Autocannons) on average to kill ten Tacticals in the open at short range without any defensive buffs? Surely a 'little' buff is called for?

I'd like to be able to learn/understand an edition before that edition is replaced.

nareik wrote:
I'd like to be able to learn/understand an edition before that edition is replaced.

Have an exalt.

 master of ordinance wrote:


Given that it takes around 450 points worth of Guard (50 man blob with 5 Autocannons) on average to kill ten Tacticals in the open at short range without any defensive buffs? Surely a 'little' buff is called for?

450 for killing 150? That is not so bad at all?

If those Tactical Marines get to shoot first, they will kill 8.712 Guardsmen, or 43.56 points, assuming the sergeant has a bolter. For a cost of 150 points. Which is actually less efficient than the Guardsman fire; the Guardsmen make back one third (0.33) of their points in one round of shooting whereas the Marines make back only 0.29.

So in other words, what you are saying is that we should buff Marine power against IG infantry?

I wish I could beat tau

I'd like to remove all the relics from every codex and change Special characters so that you needed your opponents permission to use them.
I'm not for units assaulting from Deep Strike unless their points costs go up Or a player can pay for that ability for those units.
Same with assaulting from reserves.

I wish heavy anti tank weapons had the possibility to insta-kill G/MCs the way they can vehicles. Maybe give some heavy weapons Instant Death X as a special rule, where X is the to-wound roll required to inflict ID.

I'm not sure assault out of deep strike would be entirely fair. That said, drop pods would be covered by continuing to not be able to assault out of a transport that's moved that turn, assuming we consider deep striking onto the table to be the equivalent of moving.

I'm all for being able to assault out of a transport that hasn't moved yet that turn. It was stupid to do away with it. Ditto assaulting out of walk-on Reserves and Outflank.

I'm not for unrestricted shooting into melee. However, there should be a size category consideration. If infantry are getting assaulted by something as big as a barn, I'd think their comrades could shoot the bigger foe without running an unreasonable risk of hitting their own.

I wish drop pods could Tank Shock enemy units and make them get out of the way. You've got this massive armored shell screaming in from orbit. Even if you were able to destroy it with shooting as it comes in, you'd wind up with tons of flaming wreckage crashing down on top of you, which I'd think wouldn't constitute much of an improvement.

That's an few interesting Ideas. I'd like to see anything that has just landed via Dep Strike, which then gets assaulted to fight at a lower Initiative, Maybe I 1 or maybe just Half rounding down.

I'm not a fan of the droppod idea yet.

Not really sure how the shooting larger models should work. Do units have to snap fire in that situation?

If assaults going to become even stronger... I want my choppas back...

I think turns should be based off of your units initiative, higher initiative units and fast vehicles move first, then move down the line until you get to Initiative 1 units/models. Same way for the Shooting/Assault phase. Higher Initiative units get to shoot/melee first.

This eliminates the alpha strikes, the 1 turn and half your army is gone games, allows you to both play and react a lot more, providing more strategy and tactics, and makes sense IMO, higher initiative = better agility and quick thinking.

I would like to have an alernate approach to this if you don't mind. I would not like to issue challenges courtesy of Champion of Chaos rule.

What would I like to do? Assault from deepstrike...and no not the Raptor disordered charge formation from Traitors Hate thank you. Would actually make terminators more useful, amongst others.

I'd like to play assault armies without it feeling like a tooth pulling experience

 D4V1D0 wrote:
Being able to leave an assault you can't win.

I.e your squad of warriors just sit there turn after turn because they cannot physically damage the dreadnaught that has charged them.

I realise this would remove an element of strategy, but being able to split a squad and allow half to leave combat would make life more interesting!

You already can.

"Our Weapons Are Useless!" is a rule in the BRB.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 warhead01 wrote:
I'd like to remove all the relics from every codex and change Special characters so that you needed your opponents permission to use them.
I'm not for units assaulting from Deep Strike unless their points costs go up Or a player can pay for that ability for those units.
Same with assaulting from reserves.

Why? Most special characters are trash anyways. Same goes for relics, except for the rare gorgon's chain type stuff. 40k Shouldn't need an hour of pre-planning asking your opponent if your army is "acceptable" to play against them.

 Ashiraya wrote:
As much as I agree, I do not think this game can achieve that while still fitting in both gretchin and GMCs in a D6 system.

Well, it could, but there would need to be more scaling of dice. Technically a D6 can go down to a D2. And, a towering titan could roll, like, 50D6.

Plus you can use a sequential dice system instead of a parallel dice system. That is you could roll four dice and get for a range of 1111 - 6666, skipping the digits (0, 7-9) that aren't rollable. So a gretchin could do 1-6 damage, and a titan could do 1111-6666 damage.

Also, a mechanic already in a game, you could have 10,000 gretchin, and you would not be wound one titan; given enough turns, then titan could squish all of the gretchin, which makes sense.

Now, whether a gretchin and a Revenant belong in the same game is a whole other question.

Why? Most special characters are trash anyways. Same goes for relics, except for the rare gorgon's chain type stuff. 40k Shouldn't need an hour of pre-planning asking your opponent if your army is "acceptable" to play against them.

I don't like special characters. I don't like having to rely on special characters. It would seem to me that if they were removed from the table top and pushed back into the story GW would find a way for players to build their own characters with good traits and abilities.
Or should I say better. I have seen special characters for years in list and it's silly. why would a chapter master be in ever single battle ever. It's like they can't delegate down to other chapter heroes. I'd rather see them reserved for special occasions.
40K does not do this right now. To me 40K looks too reliant on special characters. Well, the lists I see online anyway.
I don't like to use them myself but am sadly in need of at least one for my own army on more often than I am happy about.
Do I want fearless Orks, Yes. Looks like I have to take Ghazghkull and Da council of WAAAGH. Things I didn't do and or have to do to get the fearless in other editions.
Relics aren't that good? My SW playing friend has a wolf lord stacked with relics. I have to choose from Da lucky stick or Da finking Kap. (because is there really another choice?)
Given the topic of what would you/I do. I'd just get rid of them.
I'd take a stack of Wargear cards over relics. You can take what ever you like, I can take a Vortex Grenade. Were both happy and have access to basically the same number of options.
Wargear cards are my preference.

Shooting into assaults: YES

Being able to use your gun in assault: ALSO YES.

What's increasingly curious is how many of the things people want...were available in 2nd edition. There seem to be two kinds of rules people want:

1) Make the game more fair/interesting.
2) Make my units more deadly, make the game faster.

 Engine of War wrote:
Use a balanced (as well as possible) system to create custom units (mostly vehicles) such as behemoth battleship tanks (think an Emperor Class Titan, but instead a giant tank/battleship) or anything in between.
I'm well aware there is/was a system in place at one point but I don't think its up to date (I cannot recall what edition it was made for or when it was created) but a new up to date one would be nice.

Having to essentially wing-it when making giant units is a pain as even if the unit is expensive in point and relatively weak to other units people have this odd aversion to custom units, I could build a giant tank with armor 10 all around it and armed with lazguns and people would not want to fight it (not that I would build such a thing....) So a "official" system to do it would probably keep peoples fears away.

The problem with this is that an easy absolute an official VDR either has to be complicated to the point of unusability, simple to the point of not letting you do anything, or horribly abuseable. The 3e VDR were always permission-use, and even then they let you do some pretty stupid things (9-9-9 Flyer with a railgun for 80pts, anyone? How about the 83pt 9-9-9 Flyer with two 24" range blast fusion guns?); points costs for every option has to depend on every other option to a degree it's not doable by hand.

There isn't a quick-and-easy answer to designing new units; you have to do a mock-up, compare it to existing units for a rough cost, and then test and keep testing.

 Elbows wrote:
What's increasingly curious is how many of the things people want...were available in 2nd edition. There seem to be two kinds of rules people want:

1) Make the game more fair/interesting.
2) Make my units more deadly, make the game faster.

Except 2nd ed had unhittable Hive Tyrants and insta death warp spiders. No one wants those back.

Sure they do.

 warhead01 wrote:

Why? Most special characters are trash anyways. Same goes for relics, except for the rare gorgon's chain type stuff. 40k Shouldn't need an hour of pre-planning asking your opponent if your army is "acceptable" to play against them.

I don't like special characters. I don't like having to rely on special characters. It would seem to me that if they were removed from the table top and pushed back into the story GW would find a way for players to build their own characters with good traits and abilities.
Or should I say better. I have seen special characters for years in list and it's silly. why would a chapter master be in ever single battle ever. It's like they can't delegate down to other chapter heroes. I'd rather see them reserved for special occasions.
40K does not do this right now. To me 40K looks too reliant on special characters. Well, the lists I see online anyway.
I don't like to use them myself but am sadly in need of at least one for my own army on more often than I am happy about.
Do I want fearless Orks, Yes. Looks like I have to take Ghazghkull and Da council of WAAAGH. Things I didn't do and or have to do to get the fearless in other editions.
Relics aren't that good? My SW playing friend has a wolf lord stacked with relics. I have to choose from Da lucky stick or Da finking Kap. (because is there really another choice?)
Given the topic of what would you/I do. I'd just get rid of them.
I'd take a stack of Wargear cards over relics. You can take what ever you like, I can take a Vortex Grenade. Were both happy and have access to basically the same number of options.
Wargear cards are my preference.

How would they make their own special characters and not just make them as omgsocool as the last one? Giving free reign to the player base on making their own special characters with traits and etc. would require more work than it's worth. You can already customize most HQs anyways.

And 40k isn't a galactic scale game, it can very easily be justified that Dante is on a crusade with like a company of space marines or something, it makes a lot of sense that chapter master could be "in every single battle ever".

And your SW friend is cheating, 1 relic per detachment. And how are wargear cards any different than relics in most cases? Sounds like you just want better ork relics.

THIS!

Tank Riders - The Imperial Guard army in 40k has a lot in common with the Soviet-era Russian army, what with the commissars and such. But, a common tactic from the second world war has never been an option in 40k. That is, the practice of having infantry catch a ride on armor. This helps make infantry more mobile, and provides the tank with assault defense that can keep up with it. Oddly, there were even were some Valhallan tank rider miniatures back in the days of 3rd edition, but they were intended to be glued on and had no impact on how the tank played.

Opening hatches - Here's one every player of Khorne Berserkers would love. Back in 3rd edition, to fire a heavy weapon out of a Rhino you had to open the top doors, and doing so would temporarily make the vehicle open topped. This was meant to be a disadvantage, in exchange for the advantage of getting to fire a heavy weapon. But, it would be wonderful if assault troops had the option to open the hatch now. An open topped Rhino would more than make up for the damage penalty when hit by being able to deliver choppy units into assault. Heck, no need to even be able to shut the hatches - take a chain axe to the hinged and take them off permanently!

Also, it would be cool if a vehicle gets killed, the crew jumps out and becomes infantry. Like units disembarking from a damaged transport would.

Aedgar Perri wrote:

Also, it would be cool if a vehicle gets killed, the crew jumps out and becomes infantry. Like units disembarking from a damaged transport would.

In 3ed IG had an upgrade that let d3 crewmen jump out of a destroyed tank. It gave you 1-3 guardsmen on top of your wreckage. I think the upgrade was called "escape hatch".

Someone mentioned homebrewed tank rules and iirc there was a rule like that in an old chapter approved. Every armour value had a points cost as did the Guns and special rules. These tanks where inherently worse then their codex equivilant points wise but a friend of mine who's into scratch building had some great fun putting various strange armoured artillery pieces togheter.

I've always wanted to see a "alien mercenaries" army in 40k with humans, kroot, hrud, demiurg, R'kol and so on represented. It's a piece of the lore that's rarely been fleshed out game wise.

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:
I wish heavy anti tank weapons had the possibility to insta-kill G/MCs the way they can vehicles. Maybe give some heavy weapons Instant Death X as a special rule, where X is the to-wound roll required to inflict ID.

I'm going for not having to worry about my 300pts FMC removed by a lucky roll. The thing is ~20% of my army and you roll a 6 and it's just gone. Feels terrible.
I'd rather have vehicles not just explode.

Aedgar Perri wrote:

Also, it would be cool if a vehicle gets killed, the crew jumps out and becomes infantry. Like units disembarking from a damaged transport would.

I would love to see it when a Trukk becomes wrecked that the driver and gunner pops out and the gunner gets to be armed with the rokkit launcha / bigshoota that was mounted on the trukk.

 DarkBlack wrote:

 Grand.Master.Raziel wrote:
I wish heavy anti tank weapons had the possibility to insta-kill G/MCs the way they can vehicles. Maybe give some heavy weapons Instant Death X as a special rule, where X is the to-wound roll required to inflict ID.

I'm going for not having to worry about my 300pts FMC removed by a lucky roll. The thing is ~20% of my army and you roll a 6 and it's just gone. Feels terrible.
I'd rather have vehicles not just explode.

Vehicle players have been dealing with this since 3rd Edition. And I am all for them not exploding, or having a damage chart, and gaining an armour save, so they are as durable as MCs.

Vehicles seem to be stuck in a bad place. While the game follows older codexes, the AV is pretty much max'ed at 13-14 for most things (since that used to be good). With the constant weapons race flying into the stratosphere soon we'll have every soldier in the game with a Strength 8, AP1 rifle, etc.

If armour doesn't get better, and weapons continue to get more and more ridiculous, then all armour/vehicles will become increasingly useless/targeted.

 The Warp Forge wrote:
Alternate Phases. You move then I move, you psychic then I psychic, etc, etc. Just some inclusiveness would be nice rather than watching an opponent take their whole turn and Vice Versa.

This. I have played the old edition Warzone which had alternate activation of units and the game was sooo much fun. You need to be able to respond on your opponents turn and the best way is to have an I play You play for each unit kind of game (like chess). Also using different dice than the D6. This will allow for a lot of variety between units separating the elite forces from the masses quite easily. Now everyone has a BS or WS of 4 and marines don't seem so elite to me since my eldar baker and painter are as accurate and faster than an enhanced super soldier.