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Also gotta say, I'm really not feeling the use of shotguns on Neophytes. Even in an all-assault list when they're essentially a tax unit, I still feel like I'd take autoguns. Purely stats-wise, autoguns are entirely superior - exactly the same inside 12" and obviously better outside since they can actually shoot! The downside is that you can't shoot them if you want to charge - but unless you roll a 6 and want them to opportunistically soak some overwatch (roll for them last), I think I would be deploying them at the back to protect magi and hold objectives and such. And the thing is, they have autopistols, so you can still shoot if they charge, just half the shots - which is not necessarily a bad thing as you don't want to be shooting the foe out of charge range, especially as we don't have much fleet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

MilkmanAl wrote:

What do you guys think are the biggest "bang for your buck" unit options for when you roll Telepathic Summons?

Acolytes, hands down. With the amount of excellent (and otherwise very expensive) upgrades they can get, there's just no passing them up.

I think Neophytes are a very good shout too, probably the best at wc2. You can get 10, 2 seismic, 2 webbers, an icon, and a leader with power weapon and web pistol - 150pts worth of stuff. Acolytes can admittedly take slightly more points wise, but since you only get a single roll on the ambush table, there's a high chance that summoned units will only be coming on reasonably far away from the enemy, so having solid shooting and more bodies is going to be pretty nice. I guess if you summon melee units early they have a better chance of being able to charge and deal their damage, but definitely later game neophytes I see as the best option.

On a TCFB/6 result it's very unlikely that you're shooting yourself out of charge range, though. And Neophytes can be more than overwatch soakers...they can get work down in close combat if you manage your buffs well. Just rolling with the autopistols is cool, but I'm really not feeling the heavy weapons to this point. They haven't got much done for me, and for the price of two seismic cannons you can have 5 more Acolytes who'll give you a better shot of killing hard targets.

And I have to say that I'm not that concerned about nominating deck chair units with this army. They're all potential deck chairs, really.

Regarding summoning, there is no correct answer IMO other than "it depends." That power allows you to create a unit customized for your specific game needs at that time. That's where its real juice lies.

Thinking for my list.

Neophyte Cavalcade (minus Scout Sentinels) start in regular deployment. Russes get into good firing position while Chimeras (which I believe cannot Cult Ambush) head to secure objectives. These Neophytes will be decked with just Flamers.

Subterranean Uprising (1 Primus, 2 X 8 units of Acolytes, 1 X 5 or 10 Metamorphs) and 1 unit of Purestrains will lead the Assault if they get good roles but otherwise try and keep them out of initial LOS. I'd also like to include the Dotting Throng, supported by the Magnus I'd want these to provide support. To be the middlemen, supporting the which ever other formation is doing worse. So they will have Seismic Cannons or should they have the Mining Laser? I would also like to stick the Patriarch in with the Genestealers apart of the assault.

Should I give all of the Neophytes the Cult Icon or no one? For the Sentinels Flamer of Autocannon or Missile Launcher?

Cult ambushing sentenals scream for heavy flamers. Be8ng able to pop in 3-6" from your opponents squishy bits 50% of the time is sweet.

shadowfinder wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
Yeah, it's not really a quest on my part to find what's 'optimal', if that's even a destination that can be found. I'm not planning on attending any big tournaments these days. I've just been so-so about my Neophyte shooting, and it doesn't feel 'right' in the context of the rest of my otherwise aggressive army to have to decide between shooting OR assaulting when I could do some of both and benefit from some of the tasty assault buff bubbles.

While understandable, the majority of the benefits from the acolyte squads are getting 4 str 5 attacks per model that can be at WS 5, re-rolling to hits and rending. Not to mention the +1 str and rage power if for some ungodly reason that's not good enough.


I think the best way to run the compulsive neophyte squads is to keep them in the back lines grabbing objectives, hopping in and out of ongoing reserves so that you always have squads that can contest or claim objectives. Therefore, I'm not going to upgrade them. Quantity over quality in my cult.

How are you getting 5 attacks per model on the Acolytes? I can a only se you getting 4 max on the chargeon a bare bones 5 man squad... % only with the psycic power with rage or in a unit with the iconwrad. would you get 5.

You're not. You're getting 4 attacks at strength 5. Sorry if that was unclear.

BTW had another game at 1850 last night. Same list as last week (min brood cycle except for 20 gene stealers, first curse, maxed out subterranean uprising and a side CAD with an extra primus and patriarch)

Was playing a tyranid player with 2 hive tyrants and 2 hive crones, so I was pretty worried about all the "delete-my-models" templates. Thankfully the tyrants didn't have the eGrubs upgrade so they would only be throwing out a paltry 10 wounds per turn or so. The tervigon did have the flamer though, and with no AA (or even really guns to speak of) I knew that I wouldn't be able to do anything about his flyers, all of which would be able to roast/pile wounds on my guys.

First turn I rolled pretty poorly. No 6 for the warlord, psychic powers weren't great and only a solitary six on one of the 20 man acolyte squads from the uprising. I did manage to seize the initiative, so that 20 man squad managed a 3 unit multi-charge, killing a tervigon, 27 gants and doing all but one wound to a hive crone. This was actually ideal since they stayed locked in combat. Turn 2 saw both of my large genestealer squads charging (I got the run and charge power on both of my patriarchs) as well as 2 smaller squads that had faded back into the shadows on turn 1 (these rolled 6's to do so).

At that point (the end of turn 2) he had 6 models left on the board. To be fair, it was 2 hive tyrants, 2 mawlocs, a hive crone and a malanthrope, but I had all of the board control and would have wiped out the malanthrope and 2 mawlocs on the top of three. We called it at the bottom of two, although afterwards we discussed how my complete inability to do anything to his flyers might have meant a potential victory on a number of eternal war missions for him, especially since he had second turn. But we were just doing a normal maelstrom mission so it was moot at that point.

The board control throughout was dominating. I haven't played a list with a true deathstar yet (as I've only played 3 games so far) but it seems like you really need something that's pretty much unkillable through volume of wounds and has a good invulnerable save to stop these larger squads. They've mulched imperial knights and wraith knights alike (sword and board even) without batting an eyelash. I really think that this army has the potential to be a meta-shaker, especially since the constant cycling of units means that although they are a horde army, they play a lot faster. And truth be told, it seems like there are a number of matchups that just won't be prepared for the cult and will just get rolled, resulting in the potential to have fast enough games even at the tournament level.

And truth be told, it seems like there are a number of matchups that just won't be prepared for the cult and will just get rolled

That definitely seems to be the case. This edition has thus far heavily favored mobile shooty armies, but with a reasonably reliable method to instantly get deadly troops in combat, all the armies designed to keep foes at arms length have to do a heavy rethink of tactics, at the very least. I think you'll see very conservative deployment strategies agains GSC lists, and the entire meta may begin to favor including a significant amount of bubble wrap for key units. I know my Tau are going to struggle mightily against these massive MSU lists. Yeah, you can probably intercept away the units that get an ambush 6 during the game, but that doesn't help much turn 1 when your Stormsurge is buried in Acolytes. MSU has alway been a bit of a Tau weakness, but facing 15-20 units in immediate threat range is going to be a serious challenge. Eldar, same concept. Jetbikes may be ludicrously mobile, but that doesn't help if they get assaulted before they get a chance to move. I definitely see GSC becoming a strong tournament presence. They have great tools to deal with every chart-topping army out there, at the moment.

MilkmanAl wrote:

And truth be told, it seems like there are a number of matchups that just won't be prepared for the cult and will just get rolled

That definitely seems to be the case. This edition has thus far heavily favored mobile shooty armies, but with a reasonably reliable method to instantly get deadly troops in combat, all the armies designed to keep foes at arms length have to do a heavy rethink of tactics, at the very least. I think you'll see very conservative deployment strategies agains GSC lists, and the entire meta may begin to favor including a significant amount of bubble wrap for key units. I know my Tau are going to struggle mightily against these massive MSU lists. Yeah, you can probably intercept away the units that get an ambush 6 during the game, but that doesn't help much turn 1 when your Stormsurge is buried in Acolytes. MSU has alway been a bit of a Tau weakness, but facing 15-20 units in immediate threat range is going to be a serious challenge. Eldar, same concept. Jetbikes may be ludicrously mobile, but that doesn't help if they get assaulted before they get a chance to move. I definitely see GSC becoming a strong tournament presence. They have great tools to deal with every chart-topping army out there, at the moment.

I do doubt that we'll see them at top tables though. An army that has an abundance of ignores cover would give them fits, and going first is a huge deal since you can only assault with units that get 6's on turn 1. Even in eternal war, I have to believe that I would try to go first every time and just table the opponent, or use area denial to try and stop them from grabbing objectives. First turn is just too good with this army.

It's almost worth adding Coteaz in an inq allied just for the reroll for first turn/make opponent reroll steal attempt.

Edit: for only 365pts you can add:

Allied Guard
Command squad(bare bones)
Master of the fleet(for -1 to opponant's reserves...-2 if you have the super formation for your GSC)
Veteran Sq Grenaders, 3 plasma guns,chimera

Allied Inq Coteaz(add to veterans for some extra punch or to com sq to keep safe in a corner somewhere.)

What are the prime units from Guard Allies that you would want to take? I'm abit rusty on the rules but for allies does it have to be CAD?

Conceptually, I love the idea of some artillery like Medusas on carriages to punish people who bunker up.

Looking through the "new" IG formations, the Emperor's Wrath Artillery Company looks like it's tailor-made for GSC. You get your Company Command and have some wicked tools to dissuade castling without any significant tax, as far as I can tell. That could be a real winner.

Cataphract wrote:
What are the prime units from Guard Allies that you would want to take? I'm abit rusty on the rules but for allies does it have to be CAD?

I like the cheap Veteran Squads in Chimeras with lots of special weapons, and the big guns like Basilisks, Wyverns, etc. Purely for "mustache-twiling villain" flavor, I love the idea of a Deathstrike.

Allies can be any formation or detachment available to that faction - you just have to be aware of the way different levels of Allies interact in your army. (i.e. Battle Brothers, Allies of Convenience, Desperate Allies and Come the Apocalypse). The only restriction placed on what you can or can't take is that the specific "Allied Detachment" cannot be the same faction as whichever formation or detachment you chose as your "Primary Detachment" - i.e. the one that includes your Warlord.

Oh yeah...can't remember if I said it here or in the N&R thread, but I have ideas for modeling up a Deathstrike like the nuke in Beneath the Planet of the Apes.



The Manticore is probably the more reliable choice in the EWAC formation, but the Deathstrike is more fun.

Just had my second test game at 1500 with my Cult, and it was far more encouraging than my first (Against Ultramarine Gladius)

I played against a list that was a small scatpack plus some Harlequins. He had:

-3 squads of 3 scatterbikes
-1 D-cannon WK
-Farseer with SS of Anlathan and spear on bike
-Autarch with Shard of Anaris and banshee mask on Bike
-Crimson Hunter
Harlequin Cegorach's Jest
-1 Troupe with Embraces in Starweaver
-1 special death masque BS5 Voidweaver
-4 Skyweavers with Glaives and Shurikens joined to form a bikestar with the other IC's.

I had:

GSC insurrection
Leaders of the Cult (Patriarch ML2, Primus, Magus ML2)
Brood Cycle
-Neophytes with shotguns, flamer, icon, and leader with pick
-Neophytes 16X with GLs and Seismic Cannons.
-3x 5 man acolytes
-Metamorphs with claws and hand flamers
-Goliath Rockgrinder with Heavy Seismic (Brought Brood cycle specifically to test this model)
-Iconward
-10X purestrains
Neophyte Cavalcade
-2x squads with 2 flamers in chimeras
-Armored Sent with ML
-Leman Russ Exterminator with MMs and Lascannon

I rolled the Mind Control power (wooo) and the smexy six result on the warlord table for my Patriarch. I stuck him with the Metamorphs. Opponent won turn 1, chose to go first.

Turn 1 I got 6 on Purestrains and shotgun neophytes, and picked it with the metamorphs. Got 1 with a squad of acolytes, and 4 on all other squads. Outflanked the Russ to avoid the D turn 1 and deployed everything else behind ruins with night fight.

His firepower managed to remove 3 metamorphs and put 1 wound on the patriarch (turbo boosted 1 scat squad to get away from shotgun neophytes), and an eldritch storm took out three purestrains. Eldar Jetbike moves made sure the only thing I could feasibly charge was the Harlequin voidweaver, or (with a long charge) the bikestar with fortune up. Almost everything he had was castled behind the knight and bikestar.

On my turn, practically everything left via return to shadows. All dead metamorphs and genestealers came back. The shotgun neophytes stuck around with the iconward's squad, and with the furious charge buff they smacked the voidweaver to death and seized the building it was in.The Chimeras stunned the Starweaver, helpfully keeping it in the backfield for his following turn.

My opponent stayed fairly castled, only moving the wraithknight to get a clear shot at one of the chimeras. The Crimson Hunter came in, and both chimeras and the sentinel died.

On my turn, I brought in 5 acolytes and the metamorphs with 6 results, and as I already had the shotgun neophytes and iconward acolytes in range, I decided to pile in on the wraithknight and try to take it out. Shooting took out the Crimson Hunter (gogo gadget twin-linked autocannons) and sent two scatterbike squads fleeing with a single model left. Acolytes, metamorphs, and neophytes charged the wraithknight with Might from Beyond on the metamorphs and everyone within the Hatred bubble from the Primus. Even with Hatred and S8, the Metamorphs, acolytes and patriarch bring the knight down to only 1 wound left...but luckily we brought along Master Sergeant MVPickaxe, who took the monster down just as it was stomping to try and take out the patriarch (failed, but took a wound off him and killed a metamorph and an acolyte.) I scored Domination to put me comfortably ahead.

The following turn, the Eldar killed the patriarch and entourage, and sent the shooty squad of neophytes running, but lost the Harlequins in assault/overwatch. My opponent conceded with the score at 9-4.

So, suspicions confirmed: GSC are really good against mobile shooty opponents like Tau and Eldar, not really good against MSU obsec spam.

Had my first game with the cult the other day. Facing an eldar wraith army. 2 Wraithknights, 2 wraithlords, a wraithseer, and 3 units of wraith guard. Plus eldrad and some rangers.

My magus shows up on turn 2, and mental onslaughts eldrad to make him waste most of his psychic dice denying it (an allied hive tyrant was nearby dropping his LD, so he couldn't afford to let it go).
Then the magus was free to mind control one wraithknight, and shoot the other wraithknight with it. Rolling a 6 on the D table.

The magus and his unit were promptly obliterated by just about every remaining unit in the eldar army. So worth it though.

Arson Fire wrote:
Had my first game with the cult the other day. Facing an eldar wraith army. 2 Wraithknights, 2 wraithlords, a wraithseer, and 3 units of wraith guard. Plus eldrad and some rangers.

My magus shows up on turn 2, and mental onslaughts eldrad to make him waste most of his psychic dice denying it (an allied hive tyrant was nearby dropping his LD, so he couldn't afford to let it go).
Then the magus was free to mind control one wraithknight, and shoot the other wraithknight with it. Rolling a 6 on the D table.

The magus and his unit were promptly obliterated by just about every remaining unit in the eldar army. So worth it though.

First thought: That's what he gets for running 2 WKs.

Question: With Subterranean uprising the units can also go into reserves instead of infiltrating, right? As long as the use the ambush rule I guess.

I'll have to check whether the rule reads "Must deploy via cult ambush." If it does, in that case, they must roll on the CA table for deployment and cannot deploy normally, infiltrate normally, or start in reserve.

"All of the units in a Subterranean Uprising must Infiltrate during deployment, and set up using the Cult Ambush special rule"

This may be a stupid question, but can you return to the shadows on a turn you've arrived from cult ambush?

Nope. Return to the Shadows says that it can't be used on a turn where the unit arrived from reserves.
I suppose that does leave open doing it after deployment on turn 1...

Arson Fire wrote:
Nope. Return to the Shadows says that it can't be used on a turn where the unit arrived from reserves.
I suppose that does leave open doing it after deployment on turn 1...

Is this a real thing? Did I miss the Turn1 return?! D:

That makes sense - tbh I'm glad you can't just blink on and off the table in the space of one movement phase - it'd be a bit ridiculous!

Disappearing with almost everything you deployed on turn one could be a strong strategy though, particularly if going second

Saythings wrote:

Arson Fire wrote:
Nope. Return to the Shadows says that it can't be used on a turn where the unit arrived from reserves.
I suppose that does leave open doing it after deployment on turn 1...

Is this a real thing? Did I miss the Turn1 return?! D:

Yeah, I used the heck out of that in my last game.

Got second turn, took a few casualties through night fight/shrouding, and said "cya nerds we're comin back turn 2" and basically picked up 80% of my army.

what about this:

Brood cycle

Iconward
Acolytes
Acolytes
Acolytes
Neophytes
Neophytes
Metamorphs with crushing claws
Purestrains

patriarch lvl2.

Subterranian uprising
Metamorphs with crushing claws
Metamorphs with crushing claws
Metamorphs with crushing claws
Acolytes
Acolytes

Subterranian uprising
Metamorphs with crushing claws
Metamorphs with crushing claws
Metamorphs with crushing claws
Acolytes
Acolytes

Subterranian uprising
Metamorphs with crushing claws
Metamorphs with crushing claws
Metamorphs with crushing claws
Acolytes
Acolytes

Tyranid Hive fleet

Deathleaper

Mucolid
Mucolid
Mucolid
Mucolid
Mucolid
Mucolid
Mucolid
Mucolid
Mucolid

Myotic spore cluster: 3 bombs (forgeworld)

aegis defence line

spore field (3 big bombs + 3x3 small bombs)
spore field (3 big bombs + 3x3 small bombs)

Still sum points left..

I guess I need a big Acolytes unit for the patriarch + icon to protect them. Maybe a magus for the 3x D6 cult ambush with Subterranian uprising?

Did sum testing and it really hurts when tau seizes your first turn. I really like the option to remove the whole army except the bombs. Next turn you bring a whole lot of units in their face...

Hey everyone, so my collection of GSC is slowly growing and my gaming scene likes playing fairly tough lists so I just though I might throw up a list here and ask for advice and discuss something.

On my first game I did what we do and punched my way through an IG army, turn 1 victory etc etc all glory to the cult. Second game however he bunkered hard, tons of flamers etc. now it wasn't my best game and I was an idiot and riding the high and playing my second game resulted in me being whiped before my first turn after he seized.

My response to this was to add a Leman Russ, which mileage wasn't great for the points. Then remembered the two battlecannon weapon batteries I had sitting around. I thought they might be a really good way to disuade bunkering and seize backfield objectives as well. This prevents one of the largest problems for this army and allows my cheap neophyte squads to act as suicidal bodies or mid field objective grabbers. They've been fairly useless so far just holding back fields.

The problem is, my scene plays 1000pts most of the time. We play it to force hard choices in lists and are also confined by space and time. At 1000 points in debating whether the vengeance weapon batteries are worth it (I think so) or more, is it worth taking both, or just one?

85 points gained from that would allow me to add another uprising Metamorph squad (god I love them), or a primus or something.

I realise that was a rambling mess but any advice you guys and gals can give me would be amazing. This army plays like nothing else and is a perfect translation of lore to tabletop and want to get very good at it!

++Genestealer Insurection - 800pts++

+ Core (480pts) +

Brood Cycle - 480pts

Acolyte Hybrids (40pts)
- 5x Acolyte Hybrid

Acolyte Hybrids (40pts)
- 5x Acolyte Hybrid

Acolyte Hybrids (40pts)
- 5x Acolyte Hybrid

Hybrid Metamorphs (95pts)
- Cult Icon
- 4x Hybrid Metamorph w/ whip
Metamorph Leader w/ whip & bonesword

Acolyte Iconward - 95pts
- Icon of the Cult Ascendant

Neophyte Hybrids - 50pts

Neophyte Hybrids - 50pts

Purestrain Genestealers - 70pts
- 5x Sything Talons

+ Command (95pts) +

Lord of the Cult - 95pts
-Magus w/ lvl 2, crouchling, 2x familiars

+ Auxiliary (225pts) +

Subterranean Uprising - 225pts

Acolyte Hybrids (65pts)
- 4x Acolyte Hybrid
- Acolyte Hybrid w/ Heavy Rock Saw

Acolyte Hybrids (65pts)
- 4x Acolyte Hybrid
- Acolyte Hybrid w/ Heavy Rock Saw

Hybrid Metamorphs (95pts)
- Cult Icon
- 4x Hybrid Metamorph w/ whip
Metamorph Leader w/ whip & bonesword

++ (Fortification Detachment) (170pts) ++

Vengeance Weapons Battery - 2x Battle Cannon 170pts



Cheers all,

Qwerty

Qwerty2jam wrote:
Hey everyone, so my collection of GSC is slowly growing and my gaming scene likes playing fairly tough lists so I just though I might throw up a list here and ask for advice and discuss something.

On my first game I did what we do and punched my way through an IG army, turn 1 victory etc etc all glory to the cult. Second game however he bunkered hard, tons of flamers etc. now it wasn't my best game and I was an idiot and riding the high and playing my second game resulted in me being whiped before my first turn after he seized.

My response to this was to add a Leman Russ, which mileage wasn't great for the points. Then remembered the two battlecannon weapon batteries I had sitting around. I thought they might be a really good way to disuade bunkering and seize backfield objectives as well. This prevents one of the largest problems for this army and allows my cheap neophyte squads to act as suicidal bodies or mid field objective grabbers. They've been fairly useless so far just holding back fields.

The problem is, my scene plays 1000pts most of the time. We play it to force hard choices in lists and are also confined by space and time. At 1000 points in debating whether the vengeance weapon batteries are worth it (I think so) or more, is it worth taking both, or just one?

85 points gained from that would allow me to add another uprising Metamorph squad (god I love them), or a primus or something.

I realise that was a rambling mess but any advice you guys and gals can give me would be amazing. This army plays like nothing else and is a perfect translation of lore to tabletop and want to get very good at it!

++Genestealer Insurection - 800pts++

+ Core (480pts) +

Brood Cycle - 480pts

Acolyte Hybrids (40pts)
- 5x Acolyte Hybrid

Acolyte Hybrids (40pts)
- 5x Acolyte Hybrid

Acolyte Hybrids (40pts)
- 5x Acolyte Hybrid

Hybrid Metamorphs (95pts)
- Cult Icon
- 4x Hybrid Metamorph w/ whip
Metamorph Leader w/ whip & bonesword

Acolyte Iconward - 95pts
- Icon of the Cult Ascendant

Neophyte Hybrids - 50pts

Neophyte Hybrids - 50pts

Purestrain Genestealers - 70pts
- 5x Sything Talons

+ Command (95pts) +

Lord of the Cult - 95pts
-Magus w/ lvl 2, crouchling, 2x familiars

+ Auxiliary (225pts) +

Subterranean Uprising - 225pts

Acolyte Hybrids (65pts)
- 4x Acolyte Hybrid
- Acolyte Hybrid w/ Heavy Rock Saw

Acolyte Hybrids (65pts)
- 4x Acolyte Hybrid
- Acolyte Hybrid w/ Heavy Rock Saw

Hybrid Metamorphs (95pts)
- Cult Icon
- 4x Hybrid Metamorph w/ whip
Metamorph Leader w/ whip & bonesword

++ (Fortification Detachment) (170pts) ++

Vengeance Weapons Battery - 2x Battle Cannon 170pts



Cheers all,

Qwerty

I am not a fan of the brood cycle. All that "extra" infantry that only rolls 1 dice for cult ambush.

I would use the cavalcade instead. This gives me a cover ignoring russ and heavy bolter if you want to keep it cheap, 2 neophyte squads in chimera for some extra ranged punch (I disinbark and flamers then back to the shadows) 1-2 armored or scout sentinels heavy flamers are great for taking out bunkered troops also great if they survive to assault. All for under 500pts. It synergyzes great with the sub uprising. Go for a CAD to get 2 more magus and 2 min acolytes or neophytes to objective sit.

I have other question.

Can i make 2 cult insurrection detachament (2 decurions) and benefit with +2 to the reserves?

zamerion wrote:
I have other question.

Can i make 2 cult insurrection detachament (2 decurions) and benefit with +2 to the reserves?

I don't see why not. The bonus is not unique. I don't know if guaranteed reserves on turn 2 (vs 2+ reserves) is that big of a deal, but -2 to your opponent's reserves roll would be pretty good.

I don't think it's a competitively viable option since the brood cycle and the cavalcade are both not that great and that would be like 800 points of your army if you took two...but it wouldn't be awful because of the aforementioned benefits. Not something I'd run but go to town.