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Not sure if this is the best place to put this, but here goes...

So my FLGS organized a little Campaign Day yesterday, which consisted of around 8 people, divided into 'Factions' of two players, who each fought three battles within the Realms. Everyone was bringing 1000 points armies, following the guidelines from the General's Handbook.

I was rather excited to enter this, as my 1000 points Deathrattle is nearing 'fully-complete' status, and I had fun with the demo game I'd played a couple months earlier, so I figured it'd be a fun experience for everyone (especially as there were others who were also just starting to play the game).

I got mauled.

Hard.

Now, part of this is most likely due to my own list, which was the following:

Wight King
Necromancer

5x Grave Guard (Great weapons)
5x Grave Guard (swords and shields)

10x Skeleton Warriors
10x Skeleton Archers

5x Skeleton Horsemen

3x Spirit Hosts

1x Bone Giant

I'm fully aware of the fact that this probably isn't anywhere near a good list, but I chose the models because I liked their looks and I wanted to use them, not because of their stats. I wasn't aware of the fact that I was going to suffer for said choices so badly.

My opponents' lists were a bit more competitive, or at least, they seemed so to me; here's what they looked like:

Game 1: Dark Elves Exiles
Scenario: Gifts from the Heavens

Lord on Black Dragon
Sorceress

10x Executioners
10x Sisters of Slaughter

This was my first opponent, and I really liked this battle despite it going downhill for me rather quickly (I could barely touch his Dragon and my army was too slow to catch his fast-moving troops).

Game 2: Chaos - Slaanesh
Scenario: Take and Hold

Sorcerer Lord on Manticore
Chaos Champion
Lord of Chaos

10x Chaos Warriors

5x Chaos Knights
5x Chaos Knights

I had a bad feeling the second this battle started, and the ensuing slaughter pretty much confirmed that feeling. I barely had time to move forward before his Lord and Knights were demolishing one of my flanks, battering their way to my objective with ease. I sent my Bone Giant and Spirit Hosts through the Realmgate to reach his objective faster, but lost two Spirit Hosts in the process and the survivors were ganged up on by the Chaos Warriors. The part of my army that was still standing tried to save my own objective but was unable to manoeuver enough to get to the enemy, which eventually led to the Manticore flying over the fight to plant its rear on my objective, winning him the battle.

Game 3: Chaos Daemons - Khorne
Scenario: Three places of power

Bloodthirster
Bloodthirster

10x Bloodletters
10x Bloodletters

1x Skull Cannon

This was by far the worst game I've ever seen, played and experienced. I had a full two seconds to look at the objectives before his army was in my face, and the rest of the battle was spent wishing that the Bloodthirsters would simply end my Heroes so this travesty didn't have to go on any longer. I literally spent one and a half hour only removing my models, unit by unit, my enthusiasm buried under a mountain of disappointment. Seriously, what kind of person brings two Bloodthirsters to a 1000 points beginners tournament? (hint: the same person who built the list for my opponent of Game 2).

I clearly wasn't the only one having trouble with the two Chaos armies, as evidenced by the final score for each faction; the Chaos faction won with a full 16 points, followed by the Gaunt Summoners of Tzeentch, who gained points with every bad game played, who had 7; and after that, my own faction, who had a measly 4, and the others had 2 or 3 points.

Sooooo yeah. I have to admit that my enthusiasm for the game has taken a rather big hit. I'd like to continue playing the game, but if they're all going to go as smoothly as these ones, I don't think I'll enjoy myself very long. My opponents' advice on how to improve my list was a bit of a downer as well, as it usually came down to "buy some big monster things", which I'm not really keen to do as I've already spent quite a lot on my guys as it is.

Now I'd like to ask you, fellow Dakkanites, what you think I should change or do with my list to make it work within my FLGS' meta (if we can call it that)?

In AOS if I'm min maxing there are some things that I am going to take advantage of.

For one - your list is far too slow. You already mention this so you've picked up on the fact that you need not only fast, but HARD HITTING units.

Two - the GHB is based on a system that gives moderate to deep discounts to monsters. Take advantage of what can be grossly imbalanced by fielding your own big monsters. Most are underpriced for what they can do.

Pretty much every competitive chaos army I've seen up to this point features 2-3 blood thirsters depending on point size. You will need to keep that in mind and work on countering that build because you will see it over and over again due to it being so effective, and its borderline grossly cost effective as the blood thirsters are a tad underpriced for what they do (so every thirster you take is exponentially adding to the underpriced imbalance)

The slaanesh list you fought looks pretty middling IMO. Chaos knights are not very good. At least I have not found any solid use for them. They are "ok". That list I wouldn't consider really "competitive". It would get handled pretty hard by a monster-heavy fast list like the dual bloodthirster list.

Three - ensure you have headhunters in your list. Headhunters are capable of dropping enemy heroes. Vital.

All in all, you did take a pretty poor list for a tournament, but you can learn from that and start beefing up your selections.

Add a monster. You definitely need speed that hits hard.

Start thinking of ways to counter multiple blood thirster style armies. They are very popular.

While the chaos lists are stupidly good, they are hardly designed for a beginner's tournament.
Large monsters and fast movement are king in small points games.


I would personally build a list around a zombie dragon.
While its a cheap trick, its a solid base for the list.
Gives you a fast moving monster to remove units in your way.

Due to summoning restrictions now imposed by the generals HB I'd suggest any casters you take have a magic missile.
Stacking mortal wounds on units or a monster is the safest bet.

After messing around with Skellies myself, one immediate thing that leaps out from your list - the units are too small.

Would suggest a minimum unit size of 30 for Skellies and 20 (at least) for Grave Guard. Make sure they have a Death Hero near them (the Wight King is just fine) and a full 'command' group, even if it means dropping some of the other bits and pieces in your list.

A Monster (like your Bone Giant) never hurts, but you will be amazed what 30 Skeletons (with swords) can do, even to a Bloodthirster, and getting D6 back every turn will really start to annoy your opponents!

First thing I would drop in your list are the Black Knights, but I am biased against them. Even with a unit of 10, I have had trouble getting them to do, well, anything!

Two bloodthirsters in 1000 points? Holy feth.

Yeah, sounds like they decided to game it and figure since it's a tournament, WAAC rules all. Your army looks great and fluffy, but sadly it's common in GW games for a good fluffy army to get totally roflstomped.

I'd say the organizer failed if he allowed a 1000 point list with 2x Bloodthirsters, 20x Bloodletters and a Skull Cannon in a beginners tournament. I'm sure whoever that player was had a moment where he thought, "Ugh... I can't believe I have to take these Battleline units. I could probably squeeze in an extra Bloodletter to ROFLstomp these noobs if I didn't have to pay a Batteline tax."

Every beginner tournament I've ever played had limits on how big an individual model/unit could be.

The tournament I attended recently was very similar. 3 people destroyed everyone they came across, and only started losing when they came across each other. All the games became slugfests in the middle of the board, completely disregarding objectives. I mean, a table is still a win right?

I don't really know a way around this, because the addition of objectives hasn't really done much IMO. Very disappointed with it, and has killed off the excitement I had coming out of the Season of War.

 WarbossDakka wrote:
The tournament I attended recently was very similar. 3 people destroyed everyone they came across, and only started losing when they came across each other. All the games became slugfests in the middle of the board, completely disregarding objectives. I mean, a table is still a win right?

I don't really know a way around this, because the addition of objectives hasn't really done much IMO. Very disappointed with it, and has killed off the excitement I had coming out of the Season of War.

Don't let yourself get caught up in a giant slugfest in the middle of the board. If your opponent has a Bloodthirster, send smaller units against it in waves. You're not trying to kill it. You're just trying to delay it while you claim objectives. So long as you have one model remaining on the board, he hasn't tabled you. When I go up against an army like this, I generally send a low point, 5-man unit to the most remote corner, knowing they're doomed if they get into a fight, but also knowing my opponent will need to spend potentially 3+ rounds getting to them. If I can delay them for 2 or 3 rounds, I've kept myself from being tabled even if I lose everything else.

I've seen lots of people send their whole army against something like a Bloodthirster and simply die. Haven't you seen Lord of the Rings? Gandalf holds the bridge while everyone else runs. It's an effective strategy. Don't be afraid to retreat and then take off. 20 Battleshock immune Clanrats can hold up a Bloodthirster for multiple game rounds at a fraction of the Bloodthirsters cost. To get out of combat, he'd have to flee, which prevents shooting or another charge that turn. Plus, fleeing annoys Khorne to no end. It also serves my purpose because he's burned another round. In a game with a fixed 5 rounds, losing a round's activity is rough.

Sad to say this to you (because my Freeguild army suffers from the same), but you've built an entire army of units that can accomplish nothing.

They are all small, not tanky, not choppy, and not even really chaff considering how slow most of it is.

If you want to play tournament games in AoS it's all about giving your unit a role and building them to fit best. Take your skeletons, as Matt says they can be a formidable unit so take 30+ In a unit.

You'll want something choppy in there. A Hero on a monster is a great call, but also things like Morghast.

The fact that your Grave Guard are 2 units of 5 rather than one of 10 basically gives your opponent a free activation in the combat phase.

If you don't want to make these changes to your army, then you'll want to negotiate with your opponents before friendly games to explain you have very small units and ask if they could do the same.

With regards to the later conversation, tabling an opponent is only a win if your draw on Victory Points. As long as you're winning on VPs it doesn't matter if you get tabled or not (as per the GHB).

Agree with Bottle.

Every army needs a hammer. That's a basic concept of army building in most games like this. You need a hammer and an anvil, or a way to approximate either.

Your army is made up of anvils. Relatively hard to kill cheap dudes that can hold up opponents even for a turn or two. But you don't have a way to dispatch them once you have them held up. You'll want something nasty, like a Zombie Dragon/Terrorgheist or a powerful character. As it stands, there's just no oomph.

On the whole, it sounds like when the FLGS said "Beginner Tournament" some people heard "Beginner" and others heard "Tournament". This is fairly well the shape of the tournament setting - big monsters and fast moving armies are the name of the game. If people take things even somewhat seriously, you need to be able to deal with that sort of thing and/or bring it yourself. Picking your favorite/flavorful units is fun in friendly games, but going to events throws that social construct out the window.

Thanks for the comments, everyone. I'm a bit bummed out by the fact that I can only improve my army by leaving out models I personally like and taking stuff I don't really want to take, but I guess that's simply the nature of the beast?

I've spent some more time on scrollbuilder.com, trying out some different configurations in hopes of finding a list that I would enjoy fielding (and, preferably, one that matches my army's fluff).

Here's a couple of suggestions:

Firstly, two that don't require me buying new stuff:

Arkhan the Black
Wight King

20x Skeleton Warriors (2 units of 10, merged once battle starts (not sure if that's legal, though))

10x Grave Guard

1x Bone Giant

Wight King
Necromancer

20x Skeleton Warriors (2 units of 10, merged once battle starts)

10x Grave Guard

6x Spirit Hosts

1x Bone Giant

These lists still lack a big monster/hard hitter, barring maybe Arkhan the Black (which I'm scratchbuilding, by the way). I do lose the only real ranged support I had by swapping out my archers for warriors, but on the other hand, my Grave Guard get a banner and a bigger unit size. The second list allows me to use all my Spirit Hosts, who were one of the few units that actually managed to get stuff done (and killed).

And here are some lists that do involve me buying new stuff:

Wight King
Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon

20x Skeleton Warriors
10x Grave Guard

3x Spirit Hosts (used for summoning)

Wight King
Necromancer

20x Skeleton Warriors
10x Grave Guard

3x Spirit Hosts (used for summoning)

1x Zombie Dragon/Terrorgheist

Wight King
Necromancer

20x Skeleton Warriors
10x Grave Guard

6x Spirit Hosts

1x Mortis Engine

The Zombie Dragon/Terrorgheist looks pretty damn sweet, and fit my army's fluff well enough; I'm not sold on the Mortis Engine' aesthetics, so I'd probably pick the Dragon over that.

(also, tiny side note: because I'm merging my Grave Guard and Skeleton Warriors/Archers, they aren't going to be WYSIWYG anymore. I'm not sure how big of a problem that is, but as I did my best to make each of them stand out from its peers I'm thinking that it would be rather distracting)

Thoughts?


*also, hilariously, the guy who brought the 2 Bloodthirsters was the organizer of the tournament, and a veteran player. He claims that he tested the list in playtesting, which I don't doubt, but he also said that he had really bad rolls during said playtesting. Even so, he should have realized his list's potential, IMO.

Thanks for the comments, everyone. I'm a bit bummed out by the fact that I can only improve my army by leaving out models I personally like and taking stuff I don't really want to take, but I guess that's simply the nature of the beast?

If you want to play in tournaments and not get groin stomped then yes.

 Ezra Tyrius wrote:
Thanks for the comments, everyone. I'm a bit bummed out by the fact that I can only improve my army by leaving out models I personally like and taking stuff I don't really want to take, but I guess that's simply the nature of the beast?

Some units are always going to be better than others. It's the way games are. Sometimes the cool units are also the good ones, other times not. That said, there are very few units that are just straight garbage, so if you want to make something work, you can make it work.

That said, you can't make everything work at once. You can't just pick random units and make a working list - especially with an army like Death, which generally requires support and combos to work. Pick the one thing you like - if it's blobs of skeletons, you can make it work, but you'll probably be sacrificing the Bone Giant and Grave Guard to do so. No army can just slap units together, list writing is definitely a necessary skill to have.

 Ezra Tyrius wrote:
*also, hilariously, the guy who brought the 2 Bloodthirsters was the organizer of the tournament, and a veteran player. He claims that he tested the list in playtesting, which I don't doubt, but he also said that he had really bad rolls during said playtesting. Even so, he should have realized his list's potential, IMO.

He knew exactly what he was doing. He was probably expecting more stiff competition, but you don't build 2 Bloodthirster lists without knowing that it'll roll over most things.

Requizen wrote:
That said, there are very few units that are just straight garbage, so if you want to make something work, you can make it work.

That said, you can't make everything work at once. You can't just pick random units and make a working list - especially with an army like Death, which generally requires support and combos to work. Pick the one thing you like - if it's blobs of skeletons, you can make it work, but you'll probably be sacrificing the Bone Giant and Grave Guard to do so. No army can just slap units together, list writing is definitely a necessary skill to have.

My main problem is that the highlighted seems like the only viable option available. Every single time I've posted my army list here on Dakka, the response was virtually always the same: get more Skeleton Warriors. But I personally don't like them, they just don't have the cool-factor the Grave Guard do have, and it sucks that I apparently need 30 of them before they even work somewhat decently.

Also, I thought my list was going to work, as it all seemed to check out in my head: the Skeleton Warriors tarpit an enemy, the Grave Guard hack said enemies apart, the Archers provide cover fire, the Black Knights go headhunting with the Spirit Hosts and the Bone Giant fights the big monsters, while the Wight King and Necromancer provide all the above with abilities and spells.

Does that sound random to you? Well it sure as feth didn't to me.

One of my regular opponents plays a couple units of dire wolves in his Death army. Nice quick units that will help take care of your speed problem. I think he uses Fenrisian Wolves for them.

I see where you're coming from, but you can't effectively tarpit with such small units. It is possible to have a Death army with minimal skellies, but they are really the backbone of the force. And without a backbone, you will just fall over.

It really is an awkward circumstance, which I agree is frustrating. But I think with the new points system you can't play AoS like how we're used to playing it - with what we like. Unfortunately that's what points were made to do - restrict. It is a shame, but it is just a new era for AoS that we must get around.

 Ezra Tyrius wrote:

Requizen wrote:
That said, there are very few units that are just straight garbage, so if you want to make something work, you can make it work.

That said, you can't make everything work at once. You can't just pick random units and make a working list - especially with an army like Death, which generally requires support and combos to work. Pick the one thing you like - if it's blobs of skeletons, you can make it work, but you'll probably be sacrificing the Bone Giant and Grave Guard to do so. No army can just slap units together, list writing is definitely a necessary skill to have.

My main problem is that the highlighted seems like the only viable option available. Every single time I've posted my army list here on Dakka, the response was virtually always the same: get more Skeleton Warriors. But I personally don't like them, they just don't have the cool-factor the Grave Guard do have, and it sucks that I apparently need 30 of them before they even work somewhat decently.

Also, I thought my list was going to work, as it all seemed to check out in my head: the Skeleton Warriors tarpit an enemy, the Grave Guard hack said enemies apart, the Archers provide cover fire, the Black Knights go headhunting with the Spirit Hosts and the Bone Giant fights the big monsters, while the Wight King and Necromancer provide all the above with abilities and spells.

Does that sound random to you? Well it sure as feth didn't to me.

It's not random, it's just trying to do too much. Min units of Skeletons don't tarpit. Min units of Grave Guard don't obliterate without that tarpit. A single unit of Black Knights is good but doesn't accomplish much. It's easy to get into the idea of "if I bring one of everything, I can do anything!", but in reality, you're going to need to specialize somewhere. Take a look at the lists you faced:
-The Elf list was "hammer hard with Dragon and then sweep in with foot units to clean up"
-The Slaanesh list was "foot units hold down a point or push the front, Knights + Manticore sweep the side and flank"
-Korne list was "Make everything as cheap as possible so I can bring two Bloodthirsters and be a dick"

What do you like the most? If it's Grave Guard, then build for it. You'll be focusing more on a foot infantry list, with Skeletons screening for the Guard (you'll need more than 20 to make that happen, and 10 Grave Guard isn't particularly killy, you'll probably want 2 units of 10 to make that happen). Black Knights can still be used, but more as a flanking unit than headhunters. You'll probably want to bring some buffing units - Wight Kings with Swords buff in an area around and are good beatsticks. Casters can give them Shield, making them 3+ against noRend, which is great. A Liche Priest can make them attack more.

The big thing is to find the core focus of your army and then build to make it work. What do you want your army to do? "Jack of all trades" and "A little bit of everything" armies don't work (disclaimer: I'm sure someone will bring a counter argument that there's a build that's all-arounder but on the whole they don't work). They're fine for friendly games where you and your opponent are both doing it, but without that focused direction you'll not be able to stop your enemy's threat nor will you be able to bring forth one of your own.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 WarbossDakka wrote:
I see where you're coming from, but you can't effectively tarpit with such small units. It is possible to have a Death army with minimal skellies, but they are really the backbone of the force. And without a backbone, you will just fall over.

It really is an awkward circumstance, which I agree is frustrating. But I think with the new points system you can't play AoS like how we're used to playing it - with what we like. Unfortunately that's what points were made to do - restrict. It is a shame, but it is just a new era for AoS that we must get around.

Min units of Skeletons are fine. As long as the rest of the army is not relying on them. Bring them min, then spend the rest on Behemoths and Cavalry (and, if you dip into Tomb Kings, Chariots). You don't need the Skellies to do anything except fill your Battleline tax. However, if you are playing pure or mostly Deathrattle, there's not much to choose from and the units you do have rely on the Skellies being good. For Death as a whole, there are other options.

Requizen wrote:
It's not random, it's just trying to do too much. Min units of Skeletons don't tarpit. Min units of Grave Guard don't obliterate without that tarpit. A single unit of Black Knights is good but doesn't accomplish much. It's easy to get into the idea of "if I bring one of everything, I can do anything!", but in reality, you're going to need to specialize somewhere. Take a look at the lists you faced:
-The Elf list was "hammer hard with Dragon and then sweep in with foot units to clean up"
-The Slaanesh list was "foot units hold down a point or push the front, Knights + Manticore sweep the side and flank"
-Korne list was "Make everything as cheap as possible so I can bring two Bloodthirsters and be a dick"

Well damn. I didn't really look at it that way, but it really makes a lot of sense now.

What do you like the most? If it's Grave Guard, then build for it. You'll be focusing more on a foot infantry list, with Skeletons screening for the Guard (you'll need more than 20 to make that happen, and 10 Grave Guard isn't particularly killy, you'll probably want 2 units of 10 to make that happen). Black Knights can still be used, but more as a flanking unit than headhunters. You'll probably want to bring some buffing units - Wight Kings with Swords buff in an area around and are good beatsticks. Casters can give them Shield, making them 3+ against noRend, which is great. A Liche Priest can make them attack more.

The Grave Guard are indeed the unit I'd love to field more of, but I'm going to keep running into the problem of not being able to take down those big Monsters. Let's say for example that I take the following:

Wight King
Necromancer

20x Grave Guard
20x Skeleton Warriors

That makes for 720 points, which means I wouldn't be able to take the Zombie Dragon/Terrorgheist, thus leaving me without a monster still. I could choose to take out the Wight King or Necromancer in exchange for the Zombie Dragon, but then I'd lose some of my support options.

All in all here are your options:
-Refine your list for tournament play. There is lots of good advice above.
-Avoid competitive settings, because what you saw is the tip of the iceberg of how bad it can get. Negotiate in casual games to get more balanced matchups.
-Get your tournament scene to add a sportsmanship aspect to overall scoring. Once that dual-thirster list loses because everyone hated playing against it things will shape up.


In regards to helping evaluate, Auticus has a useful site for comparing the raw offense/defense of models, even without incorporating abilities it can make things easier to figure out. Totalling up what lists would cost in PPC (see my sig) is better measure of overall effectiveness but will not give the breakdown like Auticus has.

www.louisvillewargaming.com/AOSStats.aspx


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Using that site go to the undead section. You'll notice skeletons at 20 and 30 models perform very well from a raw statistics standpoint.

I like to second Dire Wolves, I am a huge fan of them for tarpits. They are hard to kill, and they put out enough attacks so your opponent doesn't want them going first.

I like the Zombie dragon as a big monster, but honestly if you like the montarchs they can actually work (Mannfred cut though two demon princes and 20 chaos warriors before he finally bit it one game!)

The tactic of screening the Grave Guard with Skellies works pretty well, I found use of black knights in big units pretty well, as they look pretty scary and are pretty fast and pretty tough with regen and shields.

If you don't want monsters, that's okay, Wight Kings work well for support and 30 skellies with some support is nothing to scoff at, Mystic Shield helps with Survivability and makes necromancers/wizards an awesome option for Death, and their LOS ability makes them pretty tough to kill too!

I haven't played many tournies yet (none actually) just against about 2-3 opponents and frankly, there are better places to go to get your AoS fix. Similar to 40k, theres some dumb stuff in the ultra competitive lists.

But if it was a beginners tourney it is stupid that he brought that list, frankly I don't blame you for having a bad taste in your mouth, but tfg is always part of TTWG so its pretty unavoidable.

Sorry for your experience my friend!
~Mikey

I've had alot of success running a vamp on dragon recently.
Since I've got a unit of blood knights and 2 units of fell bats roaming around they are forced to pick one to deal with.

The blood knights hit like hammers and each turn one gets back up, so they usually come out of a fight the same as they went in.

Fell bats are amazing once something has died near them.
6 attacks per bat is pretty damn good so they can act as a support if needed for knights or the dragon.

Skellies aren't bad but you must have a large unit.
And if you want damage, throw spears on them and use a necros spell for the extra turn of attacks.

I might have missed it but I think I should clarify that you can't bring 2 units of 10 skeletons for battleline then merge them into a single unit of 20 in-game.

I think only zombies can do that.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
All in all here are your options:
-Refine your list for tournament play. There is lots of good advice above.
-Avoid competitive settings, because what you saw is the tip of the iceberg of how bad it can get. Negotiate in casual games to get more balanced matchups.
-Get your tournament scene to add a sportsmanship aspect to overall scoring. Once that dual-thirster list loses because everyone hated playing against it things will shape up.

Option 4) Come to terms with the softer nature of your choices* and understand that you're playing in X event because you want to get in a handful of games in 1-2 days, some of which will be painful and some of which will be great (as you plummet down the rankings to meet other fluffy bunnies / Casualhammer players), and not to win every game or the event.

Option 5) Actively seek out or promote events with additional comp restrictions and/or significant bonuses for hobby and sportsmanship performance (like Option 4 but you'll do better in the end as well as see the number of WAAC lists decline, before stabilizing into whatever meta the comp pack has created as a byproduct).

4 and 5 is how I attended tournaments throughout 8E, and had a lot of fun doing it ... though alcohol certainly helped towards the end of the edition

*Note that I do think your original list could still use some focusing, even for a fluffier list. Focusing on Grave Guard, despite their perceived mediocrity + slow speed, and making them work would be one way to pursue this goal (and the kind of thing I've spent years doing )

- Salvage

For what it's worth, there was a casual 1k beginners tournament here not too long ago now.
While using the GHB for points and restrictions, they limited leaders, behemoths and artillery to 2/1/1 respectively.

This stopped alot of nasty lists but naturally, people got around it other ways.
Mainly 3 players running a ton of storm fiends each, which promptly tore through most other armies with ease.

They also removed any "god level" characters.
So nagash, alarielle, archaeon etc were also banned.


While speaking to them afterwards they also plan on imposing a few other restrictions in future, but those are yet to be seen.

 Jackal wrote:
For what it's worth, there was a casual 1k beginners tournament here not too long ago now.
While using the GHB for points and restrictions, they limited leaders, behemoths and artillery to 2/1/1 respectively.

This stopped alot of nasty lists but naturally, people got around it other ways.
Mainly 3 players running a ton of storm fiends each, which promptly tore through most other armies with ease.

They also removed any "god level" characters.
So nagash, alarielle, archaeon etc were also banned.


While speaking to them afterwards they also plan on imposing a few other restrictions in future, but those are yet to be seen.

How were said Stormfiends kitted out? They're pretty nasty no matter the option, just curious what people are using

If I had to guess I'd say grinder/warpfire/warpfire or ratling/warpfire/warpfire but I'd like to hear that answer too. Something that surprised me with Matched Play is that the behemoth and artillery are separate restrictions, I'd think it would be just one value they'd both compete for.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
If I had to guess I'd say grinder/warpfire/warpfire or ratling/warpfire/warpfire but I'd like to hear that answer too. Something that surprised me with Matched Play is that the behemoth and artillery are separate restrictions, I'd think it would be just one value they'd both compete for.

My friends and I are playing a custom, low points war band type campaign that let's us buy below minimum sized units as we expand. My plan is to have two Stormfiends, one with warpfire and the other a melee variant. I'm not sure which one, but not the grinder. I need them to act as bodyguards for my war band general. They'll run around with him.

Do Stormfiends even come under one of the restricted categories? Or are they unlimited use (of course within points)?

They are battleline in a skyre army so are unlimited use within points.