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SemperMortis wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:
A lot of the complaints I see from people about Orks on here seem to indicate they want Orks to be something they aren't, and never have been. Don't like randomisation? Don't play Orks. It's been a feature of the army since 1st Ed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Personally, I'd be happy for minor tweaks to a few things, and point reductions for the rest.

Randomization is fine when its balanced. Unfortunately almost NOTHING in the ork codex is balanced. our Blitzabomber drops a bomb, on a double 1 it dies in a firey crash costing you points, on a 10-12 it gets to shoot its target with its guns as well as drop the bomb.....

Mob Rule, on a 1 you run away, on a 2-6 you kill your own guys.

Psychic shenanigans WE TEST ON A FETHING 7!

We have access to a lot of Plasma like weapons with +1strength, they kill their bearer on a roll of 1 but only HIT on a 5 or 6. So you have a 50% chance to kill yourself compared to hitting your target. Ohh and did I mention the cost? 5pts for a ranged 24 and 10pts for a plasma pistol? Thereby taking away the benefit of orks in close combat because that stupid pistol is to expensive and doesn't function most of the game.

Bubble Chucka, yay random AP and S nice! I GOT AP1!!!!! but that means IM S1 wounding on 6s.

Zzap Gunz, just as likely to kill your crew as the enemy

Smasha Gun, S4+D6 you have to choose your target before rolling strength, which means that if you try to hit a AV13 vehicle with that 1 Shot AP1 weapon you better roll a 3+ otherwise you wont even get to glance the thing on a roll of 6.


So to summarize, Randomness is fine, so long as the benefits AT LEAST equal the downsides. At the moment that doesn't happen and that is why we hate Ork Randomness.

Like I said, to me, most of this stuff seems entirely consistent with the character of the army since it first appeared. My only real problem with it is that, given the way stuff can behave, there's a pretty strong argument that we're probably paying too may points for certain stuff (cf your point about the Kustom Slugga)

 Nazrak wrote:


Like I said, to me, most of this stuff seems entirely consistent with the character of the army since it first appeared. My only real problem with it is that, given the way stuff can behave, there's a pretty strong argument that we're probably paying too may points for certain stuff (cf your point about the Kustom Slugga)

A blitzbomber costs 135pts, It is armed with bombs (2) a Big Shoota (S5 AP5) and a TL Supa Shoota (S6 AP4) both the guns are assault 3. In the game when it drops bombs it has a 1/11 chance to blow itself up instantly. It has a 1/11 chance of inflicting a S9 AP2 hit on itself and its target, our flyer is AV10 so your automatically losing an HP, possibly crashing and burning. It has a 6/11 chance of working the way it supposed to and it has a 3/11 chance of getting to shoot its weapons at the rear of a vehicle as well as dropping its bombs.

So the bad things are you lose your flyer or you lose a HP with the chance of being destroyed. The good things are you get to shoot the rear armor of a vehicle with BS3 (Strafing run unless thats not a thing anymore) S5 and S6 weapons, only 3 shots each though. Even against AV10 thats not that great of a chance of doing much.

So what would you propose to make this thing worth taking? What would you propose to make the randomness worth the price?

CSM Pay 35pts more for a Helldrake which is AV12/12/10 and has IWND a 5++ and vector strike as well as a S6 AP3 Bale Flamer......

With that in mind the Orks are all horribly over priced to begin with before you even consider the "Randomness" issue.

But back to the Loota question, Randomness for Lootas would be great if their was a benefit to go along with the downsides. 1/3 chance to fire 1 shot, 2 shots or 3 shots. That is decently balanced, until you realize its BS2. 15 Lootas at BS2 have a 1/3rd chance to only get 5 hits, thats just terrible. If the Loota was instead D3+1 or D3+2 it would be a different story, because then you know your going to at least do some damage to your target before your unit is wiped out.

Im sorry my thought process is a bit scattered at the moment, I haven't slept in about 36 hours so bear with me here. But the biggest problem with orks is that GW designed them as a horde army designed to swamp opponents in models to win battles, this worked great until armies got buffed to the point where horde armies are almost untenable. An easy fix would have been to massively reduce the price of models to increase the size of the Ork forces but that didn't happen and even if it had it wouldn't have worked because games would have taken a lot longer. However, since we didn't get our massive price reduction you think that they would have at least had the decency to increase the utility or sustainability of the unit. Again nothing like that happened. Honestly Eavy armor should be the norm for Orks with maybe a 1pt bump in price. If lootas were 15pts a model but had 4+ armor it would go a bit towards fixing them, team that with the D3+1 or D3+2 and boom you now have the unit that the Loota was supposed to be.

 Nazrak wrote:

Honestly Eavy armor should be the norm for Orks with maybe a 1pt bump in price. If lootas were 15pts a model but had 4+ armor it would go a bit towards fixing them, team that with the D3+1 or D3+2 and boom you now have the unit that the Loota was supposed to be.

I agree with that, but only for the non-standard boyz squads. They should still be 6+ with a cheaper option for heavy armor. Hell, it's even in the fluff that specialist orks use armor. Tankbustas strap tank bits to themselves, so they should definitely get a 4+, flash gitz are rich so it makes no sense whatsoever that they can't get a 4+. Burnas could get like a free FNP or something due to their nerves being frayed from all the fire, lootas could get a 4+ because they like strapping random bits of scrap to themselves, and stormboyz should get a 4+ cover save any time they use their jetpacks to simulate all the billowing smoke they make. 6+ armor saves just don't cut it, which is why 90% of my lists are heavily mechanized. Orks need transports.

Didn't Stormboyz have that cover save thing last edition?

I'm sorry my thought process is a bit scattered at the moment, I haven't slept in about 36 hours so bear with me here

Some ones feelin da WAAAAGH!

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Didn't Stormboyz have that cover save thing last edition?

I think your remembering the bike orks smoke screen rule

Orks would benefit from a Traitors Hate style release with a new detatchment/formation structure.

Dakka Dakka Boyz
1 Big Mek
3-6 units of Lootas
0-3 units of Mek Gunz
Special Rulez:
Da Good Stuff: Equipped with the best gunz and ammo available to Orks, units in this formation may reroll 1's on to hit rolls as well as the rolls to determine how many shots are fired

Three squads of five lootas and a couple lobbas, hell yes.

SemperMortis wrote:

 Nazrak wrote:


Like I said, to me, most of this stuff seems entirely consistent with the character of the army since it first appeared. My only real problem with it is that, given the way stuff can behave, there's a pretty strong argument that we're probably paying too may points for certain stuff (cf your point about the Kustom Slugga)

A blitzbomber costs 135pts, It is armed with bombs (2) a Big Shoota (S5 AP5) and a TL Supa Shoota (S6 AP4) both the guns are assault 3. In the game when it drops bombs it has a 1/11 chance to blow itself up instantly. It has a 1/11 chance of inflicting a S9 AP2 hit on itself and its target, our flyer is AV10 so your automatically losing an HP, possibly crashing and burning. It has a 6/11 chance of working the way it supposed to and it has a 3/11 chance of getting to shoot its weapons at the rear of a vehicle as well as dropping its bombs.

So the bad things are you lose your flyer or you lose a HP with the chance of being destroyed. The good things are you get to shoot the rear armor of a vehicle with BS3 (Strafing run unless thats not a thing anymore) S5 and S6 weapons, only 3 shots each though. Even against AV10 thats not that great of a chance of doing much.

So what would you propose to make this thing worth taking? What would you propose to make the randomness worth the price?

CSM Pay 35pts more for a Helldrake which is AV12/12/10 and has IWND a 5++ and vector strike as well as a S6 AP3 Bale Flamer......

With that in mind the Orks are all horribly over priced to begin with before you even consider the "Randomness" issue.

Appreciate you're a bit sleep-deprived but I think your maths is a bit off here. You've only a 1/36 chance of crashing, and a 1/18 chance of a "Clipped 'im" result. So overall, a 1/12 chance of a negative result. Whereas the better-than-normal result is on a 10-12, so a 1/6 chance of this on 2D6. If that's not balancing the potential negative outcomes of "randomness" with potential positives, I don't know what is. As I've said before, I certainly wouldn't be averse to some points values being revised downwards so you'll get no argument from me on that front.

SemperMortis wrote:
But back to the Loota question, Randomness for Lootas would be great if their was a benefit to go along with the downsides. 1/3 chance to fire 1 shot, 2 shots or 3 shots. That is decently balanced, until you realize its BS2. 15 Lootas at BS2 have a 1/3rd chance to only get 5 hits, thats just terrible. If the Loota was instead D3+1 or D3+2 it would be a different story, because then you know your going to at least do some damage to your target before your unit is wiped out.

I don't have a problem with D3 shots for Lootas. A deffgun's statistically equivalent to an autocannon – average no. of shots is 2. Five Lootas is 5 pts fewer than a 3x autocannon Guard heavy weapon team, so you're essentially balancing 1 fewer wound in the unit out with 2 more "autocannons". They've also a higher toughness and a marginally worse save (The latter of which only matters against anything worse than a bolter). Seems reasonable enough to me. Again, the chance of having one fewer shot than an autocannon is exactly statistically balanced by the chance of having one more. Random, but with an equal chance of a better or worse outcome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oof, I forgot about the BS difference between the lootas and guardsmen. Let's see, 3x IG autocannon teams are going to average 3 hits a turn; 5x lootas will average 3.333 hits. But the most the IG can score wth superb rolling is 6 hits. The Orks, on a good day, could dish out up to 15. Unlikely, of course, but still not to be sneezed at. So I'm still far from convinced the green lads are getting the gakky end of the stick here.

SemperMortis wrote:
The good things are you get to shoot the rear armor of a vehicle with BS3 (Strafing run unless thats not a thing anymore) S5 and S6 weapons, only 3 shots each though. Even against AV10 thats not that great of a chance of doing much.

It has no strafing run. The bigshoota is facing back.

 Nazrak wrote:


Appreciate you're a bit sleep-deprived but I think your maths is a bit off here. You've only a 1/36 chance of crashing, and a 1/18 chance of a "Clipped 'im" result. So overall, a 1/12 chance of a negative result. Whereas the better-than-normal result is on a 10-12, so a 1/6 chance of this on 2D6. If that's not balancing the potential negative outcomes of "randomness" with potential positives, I don't know what is. As I've said before, I certainly wouldn't be averse to some points values being revised downwards so you'll get no argument from me on that front.

SemperMortis wrote:
But back to the Loota question, Randomness for Lootas would be great if their was a benefit to go along with the downsides. 1/3 chance to fire 1 shot, 2 shots or 3 shots. That is decently balanced, until you realize its BS2. 15 Lootas at BS2 have a 1/3rd chance to only get 5 hits, thats just terrible. If the Loota was instead D3+1 or D3+2 it would be a different story, because then you know your going to at least do some damage to your target before your unit is wiped out.

I don't have a problem with D3 shots for Lootas. A deffgun's statistically equivalent to an autocannon – average no. of shots is 2. Five Lootas is 5 pts fewer than a 3x autocannon Guard heavy weapon team, so you're essentially balancing 1 fewer wound in the unit out with 2 more "autocannons". They've also a higher toughness and a marginally worse save (The latter of which only matters against anything worse than a bolter). Seems reasonable enough to me. Again, the chance of having one fewer shot than an autocannon is exactly statistically balanced by the chance of having one more. Random, but with an equal chance of a better or worse outcome.

Oof, I forgot about the BS difference between the lootas and guardsmen. Let's see, 3x IG autocannon teams are going to average 3 hits a turn; 5x lootas will average 3.333 hits. But the most the IG can score wth superb rolling is 6 hits. The Orks, on a good day, could dish out up to 15. Unlikely, of course, but still not to be sneezed at. So I'm still far from convinced the green lads are getting the gakky end of the stick here.

Your also forgetting the fact that a IG Heavy weapons team is part of a troops choice. You did mention that it has more wounds and better armor and again since its part of a troops choice the chances are its going to get a good CS because of intervening models.

The best part though is that you are comparing an Ork unit that I say needs a buff because its not that great to an IG heavy weapons team.... LMAO IG, Orks, Nids and CSM (maybe not anymore) share the bottom rung together.

You do have to consider that a squad of Lootas is anywhere from 5 to 15 autocannons. IG Heavy Weapons can't spam that many gunners without a bunch of "tax" and spamability is a huge asset when it comes to shooting. Also to be fair 2 wounds doesn't matter on weapon teams most of the time because being T3 means most long ranged weapons tend to double them out. The armor difference is hardly a big deal because both tend to camp ruins/terrain and both get their armor bypassed by bolters or better.

 Vankraken wrote:
You do have to consider that a squad of Lootas is anywhere from 5 to 15 autocannons. IG Heavy Weapons can't spam that many gunners without a bunch of "tax" and spamability is a huge asset when it comes to shooting. Also to be fair 2 wounds doesn't matter on weapon teams most of the time because being T3 means most long ranged weapons tend to double them out. The armor difference is hardly a big deal because both tend to camp ruins/terrain and both get their armor bypassed by bolters or better.

Well quite. Also, I didn't realise the aim here was to make Orks better than everyone else.

Not sure what being part of a troops choice has to do with getting a cover save from intervening models, either. This solely depends on the models' positioning on the tabletop, not the slot they occupy within the force org chart.

 Nazrak wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:
You do have to consider that a squad of Lootas is anywhere from 5 to 15 autocannons. IG Heavy Weapons can't spam that many gunners without a bunch of "tax" and spamability is a huge asset when it comes to shooting. Also to be fair 2 wounds doesn't matter on weapon teams most of the time because being T3 means most long ranged weapons tend to double them out. The armor difference is hardly a big deal because both tend to camp ruins/terrain and both get their armor bypassed by bolters or better.

Well quite. Also, I didn't realise the aim here was to make Orks better than everyone else.

Not sure what being part of a troops choice has to do with getting a cover save from intervening models, either. This solely depends on the models' positioning on the tabletop, not the slot they occupy within the force org chart.

No the "aim" of this is to make Orks, specifically Lootas, competitive, and worth taking. Comparing them to IG/CSM and Nids and saying things like "Well they are just as good as this" or "They are slightly better then this so therefore they are fine" is rather silly.

Nobody thinks "Ohh wow, I hope that guard player doesn't bring Autocannon Heavy Weapon Teams". And right now most competitive armies are going "Ohh wow, I REALLY hope that ork player is dumb enough to bring an expensive Heavy Support option that will die to anything with Ignores cover."

As far as the cover save for weapons teams? I was talking about how most IG opponents I have faced have used their Infantry as bubble wraps around Heavy weapon teams and vehicles.

Make Eldar Jetbikes 4+ armor. Or 3+ from front 5+ from side (I think that was the 3rd ed system?) if they have to keep their windshield save.

4+ with Scatterlasers being 15 would really Balance them in the long run.

4+ armour, same costs, and cap upgrade weapons at one per three, I'd think. And/or take some lessons from Corsair Jetbikes that have more gun options and aren't a speedbump in melee to make them less absurdly good at one thing/ineffective at anything else.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
4+ with Scatterlasers being 15 would really Balance them in the long run.

20. Scatterlaser is a 20 pt weapon at least. It's better than the assault cannon 95% of the time. It's arguably a 25 pt weapon.

Martel732 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
4+ with Scatterlasers being 15 would really Balance them in the long run.

20. Scatterlaser is a 20 pt weapon at least. It's better than the assault cannon 95% of the time. It's arguably a 25 pt weapon.

Do we really need to have this argument again?

(An assault cannon is massively, massively better against every target if you actually sit down and do the math on it)

It's not massively better. And that's assuming it can fire at all. 24" vs 36" is a bitch. Assault cannons are actually pretty crappy because of all the bad things that happen at 24" Notably, grav cannon range. Especially because they cost an obscene 20 pts and come on crappy platforms. With only 4 shots, the rending is not that significant. Hell, the rending on the avenger gatling cannon can't truly be relied upon.

Martel732 wrote:
It's not massively better. And that's assuming it can fire at all. 24" vs 36" is a bitch. Assault cannons are actually pretty crappy because of all the bad things that happen at 24" Notably, grav cannon range. Especially because they cost an obscene 20 pts and come on crappy platforms. With only 4 shots, the rending is not that significant. Hell, the rending on the avenger gatling cannon can't truly be relied upon.

I'm going to point the two at a hypothetical Dreadknight to make a point about why "..rending is not that significant..." is utterly wrongheaded.

A scatterbike is getting four BS4 shots at S6 with no AP. We're looking at a 3+ to hit, 4+ to wound, and a 2+ armour save, for an average of 0.22 wounds.

A Landspeeder with an assault cannon is getting four BS4 shots at S6 with Rending. We're looking at 3+ to hit, 4-5 to wound normally, 6 to rend, 2+ armour against the normal wounds, and 5++ Inv against the rends. With four shots that's an average of 0.44 wounds.

The sole difference between the two attacks is Rending. The target's got an Invul against the rends. And the Rending weapon is twice as effective.

I know you love to bash the assault cannon and exhort the scatter laser, but the problem is the cheapness/ease of access of the platform, not the weapon. The Scatter Laser would be incredibly mediocre if you couldn't get it on every model in a jump-shoot-jump Troops unit for 27ppm.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
It's not massively better. And that's assuming it can fire at all. 24" vs 36" is a bitch. Assault cannons are actually pretty crappy because of all the bad things that happen at 24" Notably, grav cannon range. Especially because they cost an obscene 20 pts and come on crappy platforms. With only 4 shots, the rending is not that significant. Hell, the rending on the avenger gatling cannon can't truly be relied upon.

I'm going to point the two at a hypothetical Dreadknight to make a point about why "..rending is not that significant..." is utterly wrongheaded.

A scatterbike is getting four BS4 shots at S6 with no AP. We're looking at a 3+ to hit, 4+ to wound, and a 2+ armour save, for an average of 0.22 wounds.

A Landspeeder with an assault cannon is getting four BS4 shots at S6 with Rending. We're looking at 3+ to hit, 4-5 to wound normally, 6 to rend, 2+ armour against the normal wounds, and 5++ Inv against the rends. With four shots that's an average of 0.44 wounds.

The sole difference between the two attacks is Rending. The target's got an Invul against the rends. And the Rending weapon is twice as effective.

I know you love to bash the assault cannon and exhort the scatter laser, but the problem is the cheapness/ease of access of the platform, not the weapon. The Scatter Laser would be incredibly mediocre if you couldn't get it on every model in a jump-shoot-jump Troops unit for 27ppm.

Nether weapon is effective against a dreadknight. It is a poor comparison. If you are shootign assault cannons at dreadknights - you are probably gonna lose the match.

Well, to be back in topic, Lootas should have a 5+ at minimum and be able to use IoM, Eldar and Dark Eldar, and Tau transports.

Well, to be back in topic, Lootas should have a 5+ at minimum and be able to use IoM, Eldar and Dark Eldar, and Tau transports.

Those transports would actually be bad for them. the open topped skimmers being the most useful for them are still no good at all for them with the faq covering Jink and passengers. They might as well be in a truck for all the good it will do them.
I don't even see the point of a better save for them. anything that reaches that far to wound them would AP most better saves.
Basically Lootas aren't Lootas so much as a misnamed unit.

 warhead01 wrote:

Well, to be back in topic, Lootas should have a 5+ at minimum and be able to use IoM, Eldar and Dark Eldar, and Tau transports.

Those transports would actually be bad for them. the open topped skimmers being the most useful for them are still no good at all for them with the faq covering Jink and passengers. They might as well be in a truck for all the good it will do them.
I don't even see the point of a better save for them. anything that reaches that far to wound them would AP most better saves.
Basically Lootas aren't Lootas so much as a misnamed unit.

Doesn't the new FAQ say that the passengers are firing snap shots? I Wouldn't care to much about that with my BS2.

I think they are mislabeled because the only loot part of them is that they loot other factions weapons which all get turned into Autocannons anyway. The models range from Lascannons, PlasmaCannons, and assault cannons to some other strange thing and back again, yet all are S7 Ap4 D3 shots at 48inches.

I think if they came standard with 4+ armor (no points increase) and could purchase Git findaz for 1-2pts each it would help. Keep in mind that I think the Git finda needs an update BADLY! It should give +1 BS regardless of movement or snapshots. So overwatch at BS2 and snapshots at BS2, but if they stay still during their turn they should be at BS3, That alone would fix a lot of the dakka problems and the survivability problems.

15pts for a Loota with a Git Finda ad 4+ Eavy armor, that would do it I think, anyone think thats a bad idea?

I do wonder why they didn't come with Git Findas. they don't really move very much and it might have made up for the radom number of shots, although I guess having up tp 15 models in the mob was suppose to make up for both the random number of shots and BS2. Everything counts in large amounts.

My beef with the looted transport idea is I don't see the point or much to any good reason for doing it. Rhino transport 10 but only 2 models or so from the fire point. The Dark Eldar skimmer being open topped seems better but if it goes up..they all die in a fire.
They can more or less do the same thing with a trukk and even move and snapfire from it. so the skimmer would seem to be a Less useful option unless I planned to move it and rely on the jink and the snapfire from the lootas but I think it holds less models. Most of the imperial vehicles let too few models shoot unless looting them makes them open topped.
Then it's a question of which one has the best all around AV for the lootas to ride around in. ( Or sit it.) (Hope for the open topped Land Raider as a fire platform) I'd hope for a better way to have lootas over all. I'm for lootin but I'm also for keeping the lootas with Deff gunz as a renamed unit. A throw back to the 2nd Ed kustum kombi weapons, maybe just name them Deff Gunz and also make a unit of lootas that loot. Mostly I like that. Give us a new unit that does something but don't take anything away from what we have. I'm stuck on lootas either using looted weapons and vehicles or being a unit of orks that actively loot during the game. It's an interesting idea But it has to be easy to play so it doesn't slow down the game.
I met a guy years ago that won the first Jaxcon, or something like that so it must have been first edition. He won it with Orks. He said he was able to loot through out the games and started with an army that were basically just boys and ended with lots of Orks in power armour, standing behind "naked Orks". I'm digressing a bit.. This kind of thing is why I'd love 40K to scale back to a more skirmish sized game with trackable units and progression for warbands. more like a path to glory crossed with Necromunda.. How much fun would that be!

As far as i've been fighting orks, i'd say there nothing but a bunch of artillery guys. They sit at the back and shoot on whatever they can. I've had some nasty surprises with them preventing my IG from going any further because they were basically to Deadly for anything else than a tank to be dealt with. Furthermore, if they get a good cover, they usually seem to work great since ignore covers aren't that common.

In my opinion, apart from putting them in an elite slot, there isn't much to be changed about those.

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
As far as i've been fighting orks, i'd say there nothing but a bunch of artillery guys. They sit at the back and shoot on whatever they can. I've had some nasty surprises with them preventing my IG from going any further because they were basically to Deadly for anything else than a tank to be dealt with. Furthermore, if they get a good cover, they usually seem to work great since ignore covers aren't that common.

In my opinion, apart from putting them in an elite slot, there isn't much to be changed about those.

Well the entire tau army has Ignores cover. Space Marines have drop pods which always have a flamer or 3 in their so they get destroyed by that, IG have tons of weapons that Ignore Cover (barrage), Eldar dont care about Lootas because they can swamp them in Scat bikes, Wraithknights, Warpspiders and so on, Mechanicum has Ignores cover as well, DE have a hard time with Ignores cover so there is that. Nids are the same.....so when you say Ignores cover is rare you mean for Orks, Nids and DE right? because everyone else has a lot of it.

Hum you have a point in there. But though, i still regard them as a quite good troop overall. It's Worth taking in account that space marines coming in drop pods are quite taking risk against orks and that normaly, you have priority targets that ought not to be the lootas sitting at the back when you're dealing with orks advancing towards your guys in order to give you hell, and so on...

My competitive experience is anyway limited to watching since i'm a soft player, so i admit that my contribution can seem limited and somewhat irrelevant but eh.

 Maréchal des Logis Walter wrote:
Hum you have a point in there. But though, i still regard them as a quite good troop overall. It's Worth taking in account that space marines coming in drop pods are quite taking risk against orks and that normaly, you have priority targets that ought not to be the lootas sitting at the back when you're dealing with orks advancing towards your guys in order to give you hell, and so on...

My competitive experience is anyway limited to watching since i'm a soft player, so i admit that my contribution can seem limited and somewhat irrelevant but eh.

Generally speaking Drop pod SMs are suicide squads, but against orks they can be a very big thorn because Orks don't have enough dakka to really hurt the SMs that much so they rely on CC, if the Drop pods remove the nearby threats the Ork player has to turn units around that are heading towards the SM line in order to deal with the threat in his rear and to keep his Lootas/Mek Gunz alive.

I have played to many games where drop pods and deep striking units wipe out my back line