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It uses much of the same models, same lore and there is crossover in the community. It may be a different game but they are both Warhammer fantasy games from Games Workshop so yes they would be in competition.

As for Forge World, there is a little game they made called Horus Heresy. I don't know if you've heard of it but I think it seems to have had modest success despite the expensive models.

I guess I should have elaborated better. I've seen people online on things like Reddit, Facebook and forums get into AoS and tabletop as they've ordered the game and are asking questions about what forces they should build and how big a point game they can play with the box when it arrives.

Sorry for the confusion.

As for AoS competiting with Wfb, I imagine it'd just be the split in resources to try and maintain both games while getting releases out for both of them and keeping 40k updated that's the competition rather than the gameplay.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
It uses much of the same models, same lore and there is crossover in the community. It may be a different game but they are both Warhammer fantasy games from Games Workshop so yes they would be in competition.

As for Forge World, there is a little game they made called Horus Heresy. I don't know if you've heard of it but I think it seems to have had modest success despite the expensive models.

So you say that AoS is not competing with for example the Hobbit, which is also a fantasy game from Games Workshop?

Warhammer was able did co-exist with LOTR. So why couldnt WHFB co-exist with AoS. By the way it does co-exist in some sence, since most of the models are still using squares instead of the preferred round based that AoS uses.

Baron Klatz 708637 9077922 nullhttp://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/90/708637.page wrote:I guess I should have elaborated better. I've seen people online on things like Reddit, Facebook and forums get into AoS and tabletop as they've ordered the game and are asking questions about what forces they should build and how big a point game they can play with the box when it arrives.

Sorry for the confusion.

As for AoS competiting with Wfb, I imagine it'd just be the split in resources to try and maintain both games while getting releases out for both of them and keeping 40k updated that's the competition rather than the gameplay.

What they could do malecowshirt stuff in. For example the Stormcast could be made into elit part of an Cathay army, since the general theme of dragon riding dudes could be plausible for nation that is themed around China.

In the same sence AoS could be still use the WHFB aestetic models to bolster the faction ranks.

But the easiest solution would be to merge the two games together and let AoS be gateway skirmish game for WHFB rank and file armies. Since its not that hard to maintain a 4 page rule set.

I didn't say they were both fantasy games from Games Workshop. I said they were both Warhammer fantasy games from Games Workshop. LotR is understood to be it's own system and it has it's own fanbase. AoS and WHFB, on the other hand, would be thought of as two different versions of the same system. And the warhammer fantasy community has proved to be very divided on the issue. Some WHFB are vehemently anti-AoS.

Perhaps in a 5-10 years when AoS and it's community have matured enough to be it's own separate entity it could coexist with WHFB. But right now there is too much overlap and AoS is too young.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I didn't say they were both fantasy games from Games Workshop. I said they were both Warhammer fantasy games from Games Workshop. LotR is understood to be it's own system and it has it's own fanbase. AoS and WHFB, on the other hand, would be thought of as two different versions of the same system. And the warhammer fantasy community has proved to be very divided on the issue. Some WHFB are vehemently anti-AoS.

Perhaps in a 5-10 years when AoS and it's community have matured enough to be it's own separate entity it could coexist with WHFB. But right now there is too much overlap and AoS is too young.

We're anti-AoS because our game died to give it life without GW allowing us to play our old WFB game. Even today my store won't allow Fantasy players to play with every other game that they killed being allowed to be played.

LotR had about 3% sales and yet Fantasy was the one that had to die. I suppose they couldn't have made the argument (it just isn't popular) considering the LotR movies raked in millions. Perhaps it would've gone back in their face that their game was over-priced, in a bad niche and not good enough. All i'm saying is a few good or really good games would've pushed Fantasy back up. You're telling me with Vermintide, Mordheim and esp. Total War: Warhammer that Fantasy wouldn't have gotten new customers esp. with the 'Now you've played the game. Here are the models!' ads they had in Total War: Warhammer. Just goes to show old GW were morons when it came to advertising and pleasing customers. New GW might be ok. Also just for your info DoW 1 got me into 40k as well as other people and DoW 2 did similar. You can't tell me Total War: Warhammer (one of the most popular rank-and-file strategy games) wouldn't do the same for Fantasy.

Every "popular" argument is total bs. WFB was squatted because it was too generic, and couldn't be protected on the level that GW wanted. GW doesn't want another Chapterhouse incident, so they went overboard. How this works for them will tell over the course of this coming year.

What they could do malecowshirt stuff in. Example the Stormcast could be made into elit part of an Cathay army, since the general theme of dragon riding dudes could be plausible for nation that is themed around China. 

In the same sence AoS could be still use the WHFB aestetic models to bolster the faction ranks. 

But the easiest solution would be to merge the two games together and let AoS be gateway skirmish game for WHFB rank and file armies. Since its not that hard to maintain a 4 page rule set.

The Cathay idea isn't too bad since they didn't have golem that swam through the ground among other amazing things. The fact that they actually survived the End Times by using mystic ships to leave the Old World means a alternate after-End Times timeline could see them again.

GW issuing upgrade sprues to give the Stormcast a Asian look instead of a Roman one would be nice for a number of people in that case.

Alot of AoS stuff could easily be re-used for the alternate timeline while FW works on classic models.

We're anti-AoS because our game died to give it life without GW allowing us to play our old WFB game. Even today my store won't allow Fantasy players to play with every other game that they killed being allowed to be played. 

Yeah, that was unfortunate. Was really hoping the Old Guard were given a choice when it launched. Though alot of thing were wrong with the launch that i put down to the changing of the guard at GW HQ.

For one, actually leading up to the arrival of the Stormcast and pantheon's split while the legacy armies fought a losing battle over the mortal realms would've been much better immersion than dropping everyone into the middle of it.

As for TW:W, that would've been great for business. Too bad GW didn't know when it'd be ready and didn't want to gamble a dying product on a game that might've ended up like Rome 2.

Baron Klatz wrote:



Alot of AoS stuff could easily be re-used for the alternate timeline while FW works on classic models.

I think that most of the 8th edition stuff that was around, is lasting stuff model wise. Personally I only have a gripe with the various Statetroops models, the 6th edition statetroops are so much better or the ones from "Mark of Chaos", Pumbagor , Harpies and the ancient Tomb King core units, but even those have their feel, other then that I think the models are super.

The thing GW or FW should could work around is expanding a universe, if they can afford it. Would like to see Chaos marked beastmen again and maybe more varied beastmen ( chicken-, lion-, tiger- etc, headed gors ) , even thou I am not a big fan of them. Would nice to see beastmen, skaven, dwarf, elf and orc skeletons like it was in von Kruegers Cursed Company for VC. Some fantasy knightly awesomness for Bretonnia.

Didn't you show your preferred state troops in the TW:W forum and was shown that the 8th ones are actually 6th edition troops while what you thought were 6th are actually 7th edition?

Can anyone here more knowledgeable clarify that? That 8th uses 6th edition troops or was that fellow mistaken?

Anyway, agree to expanding the model ranges and types.

Really what I'd like GW to do, and what i believe should be very cost effective for them, is to release tons of upgrade sprues for all that stuff and to convert current models to discontinued stuff.

Want Tomb kings? Here's the heads, weapons and fancy bits to turn your regular skeletons into them. Bretonnia? Medieval fantasy bits to convert your Empire range or even get creative with Bretonnian undead, Grail Casts or knight elves.

And just a whole mess of crazy parts to turn your beastmen and daemons into a force that looks like a warp stone meteor landed in the Emperor's menagerie.

herjan1987 wrote:

Baron Klatz wrote:



Alot of AoS stuff could easily be re-used for the alternate timeline while FW works on classic models.

I think that most of the 8th edition stuff that was around, is lasting stuff model wise. Personally I only have a gripe with the various Statetroops models, the 6th edition statetroops are so much better or the ones from "Mark of Chaos", Pumbagor , Harpies and the ancient Tomb King core units, but even those have their feel, other then that I think the models are super.

The thing GW or FW should could work around is expanding a universe, if they can afford it. Would like to see Chaos marked beastmen again and maybe more varied beastmen ( chicken-, lion-, tiger- etc, headed gors ) , even thou I am not a big fan of them. Would nice to see beastmen, skaven, dwarf, elf and orc skeletons like it was in von Kruegers Cursed Company for VC. Some fantasy knightly awesomness for Bretonnia.

Oh sweet Primus I would buy tiger headed Bestmen SO hard. Even an upgrade sprue would almost be good enough if it gave toe covers for the hooved feet. Or a birdman based Tzeentch army. The mind boggles. Hell, there are several continents that are not fully explored. Rumors of pygmy armies from the Southlands, or the possibility of gorilla based Beastmen. Ind, Cathay, Nippon, Fishmen. There's literally no end to what you could do...

Baron Klatz wrote:
Didn't you show your preferred state troops in the TW:W forum and was shown that the 8th ones are actually 6th edition troops while what you thought were 6th are actually 7th edition?

Can anyone here more knowledgeable clarify that? That 8th uses 6th edition troops or was that fellow mistaken?

Anyway, agree to expanding the model ranges and types.

Really what I'd like GW to do, and what i believe should be very cost effective for them, is to release tons of upgrade sprues for all that stuff and to convert current models to discontinued stuff.

Want Tomb kings? Here's the heads, weapons and fancy bits to turn your regular skeletons into them. Bretonnia? Medieval fantasy bits to convert your Empire range or even get creative with Bretonnian undead, Grail Casts or knight elves.

And just a whole mess of crazy parts to turn your beastmen and daemons into a force that looks like a warp stone meteor landed in the Emperor's menagerie.

I am talking about O&G v vs Empire starter set statetroops, those and that era statetroops are superb.

herjan1987 wrote:

Baron Klatz wrote:
Didn't you show your preferred state troops in the TW:W forum and was shown that the 8th ones are actually 6th edition troops while what you thought were 6th are actually 7th edition?

Can anyone here more knowledgeable clarify that? That 8th uses 6th edition troops or was that fellow mistaken?

Anyway, agree to expanding the model ranges and types.

Really what I'd like GW to do, and what i believe should be very cost effective for them, is to release tons of upgrade sprues for all that stuff and to convert current models to discontinued stuff.

Want Tomb kings? Here's the heads, weapons and fancy bits to turn your regular skeletons into them. Bretonnia? Medieval fantasy bits to convert your Empire range or even get creative with Bretonnian undead, Grail Casts or knight elves.

And just a whole mess of crazy parts to turn your beastmen and daemons into a force that looks like a warp stone meteor landed in the Emperor's menagerie.

I am talking about O&G v vs Empire starter set statetroops, those and that era statetroops are superb.

I have a boatload of those, definately not a fan. especially the handgunners. those were awful...the spearmen were odd with that lion head shield.

Yeah, it sucks that you couldn't swap it for plain Empire shields. Oh, wait...


Yeah, my brother uses those as Pikemen so I have a ton of those shields. I may use them for Marauders in a Cathay themed army.

 Just Tony wrote:
Yeah, it sucks that you couldn't swap it for plain Empire shields. Oh, wait...


Yeah, my brother uses those as Pikemen so I have a ton of those shields. I may use them for Marauders in a Cathay themed army.

That would require actually having said shields.

Huh, I figured ebay and the trade forums would have more available than they do. I saw a couple auctions, that's about it. I imagine if you watched it enough you'd find plenty.

 thekingofkings wrote:

herjan1987 wrote:

Baron Klatz wrote:
Didn't you show your preferred state troops in the TW:W forum and was shown that the 8th ones are actually 6th edition troops while what you thought were 6th are actually 7th edition?

Can anyone here more knowledgeable clarify that? That 8th uses 6th edition troops or was that fellow mistaken?

Anyway, agree to expanding the model ranges and types.

Really what I'd like GW to do, and what i believe should be very cost effective for them, is to release tons of upgrade sprues for all that stuff and to convert current models to discontinued stuff.

Want Tomb kings? Here's the heads, weapons and fancy bits to turn your regular skeletons into them. Bretonnia? Medieval fantasy bits to convert your Empire range or even get creative with Bretonnian undead, Grail Casts or knight elves.

And just a whole mess of crazy parts to turn your beastmen and daemons into a force that looks like a warp stone meteor landed in the Emperor's menagerie.

I am talking about O&G v vs Empire starter set statetroops, those and that era statetroops are superb.

I have a boatload of those, definately not a fan. especially the handgunners. those were awful...the spearmen were odd with that lion head shield.

Well I can agree that those particular the lion shield is wierd, but other that those are decent figs. Also I find the same are hallbadiers and swordmen better then current ones.

Just so we are talking about the same stuff I like those statetroops that has this cover art on its box:

those swordsmen are definately better than the newer ones I have (about 40 or so of those turds)

herjan1987 wrote:
Well folks Age of Sigmar is selling so well they need to bring back the Island of Blood set from Warhammer Fantasy 8th edition, which we know was a fan favourite till it got Fantasy was replaced.

WHFB-AoS 1:0

Added square bases: WHFB-AoS 2:0

You're so right! And what really shows that they're bringing back WHFB with this release is the way that they included the WHFB rules and templates in the revamped IoB book and absolutely no AoS rules or fluff inside it. Amirite?

 Azazelx wrote:

herjan1987 wrote:
Well folks Age of Sigmar is selling so well they need to bring back the Island of Blood set from Warhammer Fantasy 8th edition, which we know was a fan favourite till it got Fantasy was replaced.

WHFB-AoS 1:0

Added square bases: WHFB-AoS 2:0

You're so right! And what really shows that they're bringing back WHFB with this release is the way that they included the WHFB rules and templates in the revamped IoB book and absolutely no AoS rules or fluff inside it. Amirite?

You know what they say:

"Today just square bases. Tommorow the rest of WHFB!"

Oh wait Old World art in Sigmar fluff:


WHFB-AOS 5:0

I think the best we can hope for is an expansion or extra option of play in General's Handbook v2 that allows for rank and file games, similar to what War of the Ring was to LotR Strategy Battle Game.

I'm quietly optimistic GW will make this happen though, as they'd only need to tweak the rules a bit, dig out the WotR movement trays or create some new ones (both of which they can then sell at a huge markup) and they'd bring plenty of old players back into the fold, whilst leaving the core game untouched for those who like it that way.

Hmm, I'm not sure they'd do something like that so soon but who knows?

@Herjan, You should get the Grand Alliance books then if you liked that old piece of art. They're full of 8th edition artwork!

sadly i would have been much happier with AoS crappy rules and warhammers fluff/setting much more than AoS garbage fluff and WH rules/.

Baron Klatz wrote:
Hmm, I'm not sure they'd do something like that so soon but who knows?

@Herjan, You should get the Grand Alliance books then if you liked that old piece of art. They're full of 8th edition artwork!

6:0

herjan1987 wrote:

Baron Klatz wrote:
Hmm, I'm not sure they'd do something like that so soon but who knows?

@Herjan, You should get the Grand Alliance books then if you liked that old piece of art. They're full of 8th edition artwork!

6:0

As much as I side with you in as much as I detest AOS, pointing out stuff like this isn't going to sway the faithful at all. And you know the nice part about the way AOS is done right now, is if they pulled the plug on it like they did WFB, then the faithful would have all the gaming material they need to play the game unsupported for decades and decades, they'd just need a hosting site for all the PDFs.

 Just Tony wrote:

herjan1987 wrote:

Baron Klatz wrote:
Hmm, I'm not sure they'd do something like that so soon but who knows?

@Herjan, You should get the Grand Alliance books then if you liked that old piece of art. They're full of 8th edition artwork!

6:0

As much as I side with you in as much as I detest AOS, pointing out stuff like this isn't going to sway the faithful at all. And you know the nice part about the way AOS is done right now, is if they pulled the plug on it like they did WFB, then the faithful would have all the gaming material they need to play the game unsupported for decades and decades, they'd just need a hosting site for all the PDFs.

Pretty sure he's not caring anything about the... what, faithful?

Only the faithful!

That'd be a interesting scenario if GW did away with fantasy altogether and AoS went 9th age with something like Age of Glory. (I'm not good with names...)

Maybe we could combine communities for massed ranked battles, skirmish and narrative gameplay.

(Though, admittedly, the 9th age higher-up decisions are discouraging me these days on the project.)

Edit: Of course on further thought, "pulling the plug" on AoS could be made into a interesting compromise for both fantasy groups by making a battle of the gods intro from AoS that takes place in the immaterium while "9th" takes place on the Old World and it's mortal armies can be supported by the divine elite. This would be a preferably post-End Times setting where everyone is fighting for survival and needing all the help they can get.

It'd also be good for GW as they can continue using the AoS & 8th model mix and go from there.

Just my thoughts, of course.

 Just Tony wrote:

herjan1987 wrote:

Baron Klatz wrote:
Hmm, I'm not sure they'd do something like that so soon but who knows?

@Herjan, You should get the Grand Alliance books then if you liked that old piece of art. They're full of 8th edition artwork!

6:0

As much as I side with you in as much as I detest AOS, pointing out stuff like this isn't going to sway the faithful at all. And you know the nice part about the way AOS is done right now, is if they pulled the plug on it like they did WFB, then the faithful would have all the gaming material they need to play the game unsupported for decades and decades, they'd just need a hosting site for all the PDFs.

As Baron pointed out, I am having a bit of fun, with this score thing.
I believe that both parties could enjoy the Old World, if GW decided to redo easy to play, but hard to master format. Which would incorparate a skirmish and a rank and file playstyle.

Would you guys play that game?

herjan1987 wrote:

 Just Tony wrote:

herjan1987 wrote:

Baron Klatz wrote:
Hmm, I'm not sure they'd do something like that so soon but who knows?

@Herjan, You should get the Grand Alliance books then if you liked that old piece of art. They're full of 8th edition artwork!

6:0

As much as I side with you in as much as I detest AOS, pointing out stuff like this isn't going to sway the faithful at all. And you know the nice part about the way AOS is done right now, is if they pulled the plug on it like they did WFB, then the faithful would have all the gaming material they need to play the game unsupported for decades and decades, they'd just need a hosting site for all the PDFs.

As Baron pointed out, I am having a bit of fun, with this score thing.
I believe that both parties could enjoy the Old World, if GW decided to redo easy to play, but hard to master format. Which would incorparate a skirmish and a rank and file playstyle.

Would you guys play that game?

I'm more annoyed how much AoS players have invaded our small sub-forum. I understand some Fantasy players gave them crap but it was more us giving AoS crap because GW jammed both middle fingers up Fantasy players ***es without consent.

I haven't even entered the AoS forums and for the most part the Fantasy sub-forum in forever. The whole experience has made me want to give up GW forever and if it wasn't for 40k i would have. Just don't know where to move on from. A part of me tells me with Sisters getting some love, new much wanted sub-factions getting love and old games being re-made that Fantasy will return in some form or another even with AoS still around. This is much how GW should've done it in the first place if Kirby didn't have his head so far up his own *** that he'd become an albino and lost his vision due to being in the dark so long and with doctors telling him his spine had been that way so long that trying to return it to normal posture would break his spine and kill him instantly.

I understand what you mean, and more than anything the presence of the pro-AOS crowd in here comes off more as some sort of outreach program to convince us to play their super spiffy game despite several players reluctance. And more often than not, it either winds up as a patronizing combat or someone basically saying "play it til you like it."

 Just Tony wrote:
I understand what you mean, and more than anything the presence of the pro-AOS crowd in here comes off more as some sort of outreach program to convince us to play their super spiffy game despite several players reluctance. And more often than not, it either winds up as a patronizing combat or someone basically saying "play it til you like it."

We've got Sigmarine cookies and Tzeentch Cakes! Join us!

Though that one is ironic considering that even back when I wasn't playing AoS I seem to remember the WHFB diehards doing the same, bitterly attacking anyone who had an inkling of interest or like in AoS. To the point where the AoS Forums were always under attack regardless of question asked.

I tend to come in because these conversations are amusing, and to clear up falsehoods generally, plus I still enjoy WHFB.