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Or are all distinctions destroyed..... do the 6 Daemon Primarchs have any power advantage over a regular Daemon Prince? or are they all equal in power?

Personally I would have liked it if Daemon Princes and Daemon Primarchs were not necessarily stronger one than the other, so some Daemon Primarchs were stronger than some Daemon Princes and some Daemon Princes, particularly the Ancient ones were stronger than some Daemon Primarchs but...

The safest bet with how the fluff of 40k works is that, in fluff, Daemon Primarchs are stronger than Daemon Princes.

LightKing wrote:
Or are all distinctions destroyed..... do the 6 Daemon Primarchs have any power advantage over a regular Daemon Prince? or are they all equal in power?

There is a very wide range of Daemon Princes. Some are comparatively weak while others are very strong. The Daemonic Primarchs fall somewhere along the list.

Angron is one of the most powerful beings in the 40k setting.
Who knows how powerful Lorgar is in 40k, he hasnt done anything but read in 10,000 years.

I believe the two factors that affect a Daemon princes power are:
The original mortals mental/psychic power.
The amount of power the chaos god chooses to give to the mortal when they assend to Daemon hood.

For example; Be'lakor used to be the most powerful Daemon prince in the galaxy, arguably the most powerful being in the galaxy, but that was because the chaos gods were fighting over him and kept giving him more power so that he would pledge himself to one of them wholely. However the chaos gods realised the folly of fighting of Be'lakor and stopped fighting over him, without their constant gifts of power Be'lakor became weaker.

Being the most favoured Daemon princes of the ruinous powers I would assume that the primarchs have been given more power than regular Daemon princes.

Right as I understand it a Daemon Prince's power is greatly governed by it's origin. A Daemon Prince can be an ascended mortal or they can be warp born.

A warp born Daemon Prince is created purely by the will of it's patron power, in the same way as Lesser and Greater Daemons are. They're made of the stuff of the warp and have always been daemons.

In contrast the Daemon Primarchs are of the second type. Mortals who have achieved daemonhood through dark apotheosis, were a chaos power has allowed their soul to be metamorphosed into a daemonic state.

Although this gives powers and skills far beyond those of mere mortals, the fact that they essentially mutated human souls limits the amount of daemonic power the hold within them.

This means a Daemon Prince that was once mortal can't reach the same level of power as a warp born Daemon Prince.

Although. Only in the last ten thousand years have there been Daemon Primarchs and their powers are largely untested.

But I think at best they'd be the same level as a warp born. After all warp born princes are a direct projection of their patron's powers, and there's nothing more powerful than a Chaos God.

(Or is there?)

 Andross wrote:
(Or is there?)

Gork and Mork. The Hive Mind. Big E.

LightKing wrote:
Or are all distinctions destroyed..... do the 6 Daemon Primarchs have any power advantage over a regular Daemon Prince? or are they all equal in power?

They're just Daemon Princes, there are those more powerful and those weaker.
The power of a daemon prince depends on how much their god decides to give them.
They're also not a homogeneous group, Angron is fairly powerful while Mortarion was defeated in a single blow from Draigo.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Andross wrote:
(Or is there?)

Gork and Mork. The Hive Mind. Big E.

Actually the Chaos Gods are described as the most powerful beings in the warp, so at least are more powerful than Gork and Mork and the Hive Mind.

And which fluff describes them as so? I would assume the CSM and Daemons Codex. Nothing more than Chaotic propaganda.

They're also not a homogeneous group, Angron is fairly powerful while Mortarion was defeated in a single blow from Draigo.

That's not an argument. As it's been discussed many times, it may only be a dream or an illusion made up by a deluded and almost mad Draigo. Also, even if it's true, Draigo is made and equipped only to defeat demons, he is their absolute counter, you can't judge Mortarion's power based on his absolute counter, even Angron would have been severely de-buffed just by standing near Draigo. Not to mention that Draigo used Mortarion's true name to incapacitate him even further.

Well I'm wonder ing about the Old Ones who created the original Eldarin. Our some hidden unshattered Ctan.

But the only race that tell us of the true ultimate power in the galaxy are.....

The Squats.

Depends on favour they have too.

Chaos can make its favoured insanely powerful but also select a new champion and reduce the former.

Id imagine there is much internal battles to be the mightiest, closest and the most powerful.

However in some fluff a demon prince was said to be looked down on by greater deamons as once mortal.

Yet. We all know angorn had a retinue of blood thirsters on armageddon....

LightKing wrote:
Or are all distinctions destroyed..... do the 6 Daemon Primarchs have any power advantage over a regular Daemon Prince? or are they all equal in power?

Not necessarily because they used to be Primarchs, but few Daemon princes have had as drastic effect on the mortals within the galaxy yet remained thwarted.
"Modern" Daemon princes - those that have ascended in the last 10,000 years have probably not been able to make as drastic a sacrifice to their patron god as the Primarchs who offered a Legion and the collapse of the Imperium. We'd know of them if they did, as we know of mortals in the High Lords who have come pretty close. Newer princes might be impressive, but they bring a lot less with them compared to the Primarch to be worth investing so much of your own power into. You're getting a certain amount of trouble, but a free-thinking minion, so best keep them below Greater Daemon stature since they're relying on your forces (more of you specifically) to back up their plan.

Ancient Daemon princes may have once threatened the stars like the daemon primarchs did, but without a proper foil or with their missions complete they will eventually lose focus and individuality, before eventually being absorbed into their patron god. Some might get rebirthed as a Greater Daemon, cleansed of all their mortal attachments and now indistinguishable from the Gods themselves, or they might just fade away into the background of the warp as their hopes and desires become irrelevant. In their prime they might have rivalled the Primarchs, but now they might be part of the power that fuels them.

 Andross wrote:

But I think at best they'd be the same level as a warp born. After all warp born princes are a direct projection of their patron's powers, and there's nothing more powerful than a Chaos God.

(Or is there?)

Magnus could conceivably be. His native psychic power (belonging to himself and not derived from any God) was second only to the Emperor, who is literally capable of jousting with the Chaos Gods. Power him up further with warp magicks and enhancements, and frankly he's practically a power unto himself. There's a reason why when Abby came knocking with the support of all Four Gods looking to drum up his forces that Magnus told him to sling his hook and get off the planet or he'd vaporise him. He's also spent the last ten thousand years playing the Great Game for his own amusement. He's quite clearly beyond direct control of any patron.*

*and before anyone quotes Tzeentch forbidding him to kill Ahriman, it should be stated that a) Magnus was still incomplete and therefore potentially less powerful than his reunited psyche, and b) just because Tzeentch told him not to do something doesn't necessarily mean he couldn't do it, only that after the intervention he didn't do it. Considering Ahriman was his favoured son, it's not unthinkable the moment of rage/anguish passed and Magnus opted to leave him unharmed.

 mrhappyface wrote:
I believe the two factors that affect a Daemon princes power are:
The original mortals mental/psychic power.
The amount of power the chaos god chooses to give to the mortal when they assend to Daemon hood.

For example; Be'lakor used to be the most powerful Daemon prince in the galaxy, arguably the most powerful being in the galaxy, but that was because the chaos gods were fighting over him and kept giving him more power so that he would pledge himself to one of them wholely. However the chaos gods realised the folly of fighting of Be'lakor and stopped fighting over him, without their constant gifts of power Be'lakor became weaker.

Being the most favoured Daemon princes of the ruinous powers I would assume that the primarchs have been given more power than regular Daemon princes.

I thought it wasn't that he actually became weaker, just comparatively less powerful, aka more powerful demon princes coming into existence.

 Ketara wrote:

 Andross wrote:

But I think at best they'd be the same level as a warp born. After all warp born princes are a direct projection of their patron's powers, and there's nothing more powerful than a Chaos God.

(Or is there?)

Magnus could conceivably be. His native psychic power (belonging to himself and not derived from any God) was second only to the Emperor, who is literally capable of jousting with the Chaos Gods. Power him up further with warp magicks and enhancements, and frankly he's practically a power unto himself. There's a reason why when Abby came knocking with the support of all Four Gods looking to drum up his forces that Magnus told him to sling his hook and get off the planet or he'd vaporise him. He's also spent the last ten thousand years playing the Great Game for his own amusement. He's quite clearly beyond direct control of any patron.*

*and before anyone quotes Tzeentch forbidding him to kill Ahriman, it should be stated that a) Magnus was still incomplete and therefore potentially less powerful than his reunited psyche, and b) just because Tzeentch told him not to do something doesn't necessarily mean he couldn't do it, only that after the intervention he didn't do it. Considering Ahriman was his favoured son, it's not unthinkable the moment of rage/anguish passed and Magnus opted to leave him unharmed.

Unlike the others though. Magnus never was as willing a joiner to Chaos cause.

Also Abaddon for all powers and deamon sword is still a mortal.

Magnus may not be under the thumb. But never also seemed to work against him far as I know.
May not jump momment asked but not also fighting his patron.
They are above him in terms of the chaos highrachy.... Technically anyway.

 jhe90 wrote:

Unlike the others though. Magnus never was as willing a joiner to Chaos cause.

Also Abaddon for all powers and deamon sword is still a mortal.

Magnus may not be under the thumb. But never also seemed to work against him far as I know.
May not jump momment asked but not also fighting his patron.
They are above him in terms of the chaos highrachy.... Technically anyway.

That's the crux of it. Magnus never wanted to be saved by Tzeentch originally, he was only driven to it in grief and rage. Then his psyche and power sundered into multiple fragments, much like the Emperor himself. Since then, all we know is that he's generally refused to connive with whatever plans the Chaos Gods cook up, and spent his time trying to decipher in his broken mind how to undo the rubric, and playing the Great Game with the other Chaos Gods (with the occasional side trip to slap some pups around). But considering what Tzeentch did to him, I don't see him ever being Tzeentch's willing catspaw. Unconscious one, perhaps, but never willing.

I wouldn't be surprised if in this new expansion, Magnus gets a serious fluff power boost now his psyche is reunited. He has new limitations (he can't manifest outside of the warp now he's a daemon prince without ticking certain criteria), but his raw psychic power should (in fluff, if not in game) really be on a whole other level. This is the man who tore a titan larger that the Imperator class apart with his mind after all, and that was before he got boosted. I wouldn't object to him becoming a Chaos faction in his own right, his warp presence should be strong enough going by the lore.

 Ketara wrote:

 jhe90 wrote:

Unlike the others though. Magnus never was as willing a joiner to Chaos cause.

Also Abaddon for all powers and deamon sword is still a mortal.

Magnus may not be under the thumb. But never also seemed to work against him far as I know.
May not jump momment asked but not also fighting his patron.
They are above him in terms of the chaos highrachy.... Technically anyway.

That's the crux of it. Magnus never wanted to be saved by Tzeentch originally, he was only driven to it in grief and rage. Then his psyche and power sundered into multiple fragments, much like the Emperor himself. Since then, all we know is that he's generally refused to connive with whatever plans the Chaos Gods cook up, and spent his time trying to decipher in his broken mind how to undo the rubric, and playing the Great Game with the other Chaos Gods (with the occasional side trip to slap some pups around). But considering what Tzeentch did to him, I don't see him ever being Tzeentch's willing catspaw. Unconscious one, perhaps, but never willing.

I wouldn't be surprised if in this new expansion, Magnus gets a serious fluff power boost now his psyche is reunited. He has new limitations (he can't manifest outside of the warp now he's a daemon prince without ticking certain criteria), but his raw psychic power should (in fluff, if not in game) really be on a whole other level. This is the man who tore a titan larger that the Imperator class apart with his mind after all, and that was before he got boosted. I wouldn't object to him becoming a Chaos faction in his own right, his warp presence should be strong enough going by the lore.

Well as a primarch he devised arts and skills beyond pretty much any other.
He projected self across a galaxy, accessed webway and more.

With 10,000 years prep time. Who knows what he has cooked up.

Also if your right on power level then him ignoring abafdon and sending him off fits.
He is basically a ant despite all the buffs he got. His mortal body.. However much he still is not a daemon of the warp.

That confurs a at some point. Power limit.

 JNAProductions wrote:
And which fluff describes them as so?

The main rule book, Empire Among The Stars section.

Warp space is not an empty void, but an infinite and incomprehensible realm inhabited by many strange entities, the most powerful and dangerous of which are the four Great Gods of Chaos – Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh

Engrenages wrote:

They're also not a homogeneous group, Angron is fairly powerful while Mortarion was defeated in a single blow from Draigo.

That's not an argument. As it's been discussed many times, it may only be a dream or an illusion made up by a deluded and almost mad Draigo. Also, even if it's true, Draigo is made and equipped only to defeat demons, he is their absolute counter, you can't judge Mortarion's power based on his absolute counter, even Angron would have been severely de-buffed just by standing near Draigo. Not to mention that Draigo used Mortarion's true name to incapacitate him even further.

Correct, it is a statement, not an argument. Anyway, Draigo defeating Mortarion happened before his wanderings in the warp so madness is not valid.
If Mortarion was the only Daemon Prince Draigo had ever fought you may have a point, but I can recall at least two other instances of Draigo fighting Daemon Princes, and those Princes gave him a much tougher time than Mortarion.
Draigo using Mortarion's true name was a retcon from Mortarion's Heart which was later retconed by the Codex Grey Knights.

Old fluff used to say that Daemon Princes were all weaker than Greater Daemons, always limited by their mortal origins. Magnus as an eighteen-inch absurd gargantuan plastic kit is probably going to kick that to the curb.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Old fluff used to say that Daemon Princes were all weaker than Greater Daemons, always limited by their mortal origins. Magnus as an eighteen-inch absurd gargantuan plastic kit is probably going to kick that to the curb.

I suspect in most cases, it's probably true. When all your warp energy/power derives from your patron, then you're naturally limited to however much they decide to dole out to you. Which is unlikely to ever parallel their greatest of daemons.

If however, your power was your own to begin with, than anything the Chaos Gods dole out to you is merely a plus. If Khorne decided to funnel a bit of power over to Gork or the Emperor and they accepted it, they wouldn't suddenly become less powerful than a Khornate Greater Daemon. Likewise, if any Alpha Level psyker becomes a daemon prince, it logically follows that they still retain their own power, the patron blessing is just a bonus. Magnus would fall into that bracket, as would (to a lesser extent) Lorgar, and any other psyker.

 Ketara wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Old fluff used to say that Daemon Princes were all weaker than Greater Daemons, always limited by their mortal origins. Magnus as an eighteen-inch absurd gargantuan plastic kit is probably going to kick that to the curb.

I suspect in most cases, it's probably true. When all your warp energy/power derives from your patron, then you're naturally limited to however much they decide to dole out to you. Which is unlikely to ever parallel their greatest of daemons.

If however, your power was your own to begin with, than anything the Chaos Gods dole out to you is merely a plus. If Khorne decided to funnel a bit of power over to Gork or the Emperor and they accepted it, they wouldn't suddenly become less powerful than a Khornate Greater Daemon. Likewise, if any Alpha Level psyker becomes a daemon prince, it logically follows that they still retain their own power, the patron blessing is just a bonus. Magnus would fall into that bracket, as would (to a lesser extent) Lorgar, and any other psyker.

Angron and primarchs brought a high degree of power to the table before they became princes so by that there power levels make sense. Magnus was already a very powerful psyker. Angorn already have massive anger and power.

The base power levels are pretty insane.

And god boost there gonna be pretty nasty.

 Ketara wrote:

 Andross wrote:

But I think at best they'd be the same level as a warp born. After all warp born princes are a direct projection of their patron's powers, and there's nothing more powerful than a Chaos God.

(Or is there?)

Magnus could conceivably be. His native psychic power (belonging to himself and not derived from any God) was second only to the Emperor, who is literally capable of jousting with the Chaos Gods. Power him up further with warp magicks and enhancements, and frankly he's practically a power unto himself. There's a reason why when Abby came knocking with the support of all Four Gods looking to drum up his forces that Magnus told him to sling his hook and get off the planet or he'd vaporise him. He's also spent the last ten thousand years playing the Great Game for his own amusement. He's quite clearly beyond direct control of any patron.*

*and before anyone quotes Tzeentch forbidding him to kill Ahriman, it should be stated that a) Magnus was still incomplete and therefore potentially less powerful than his reunited psyche, and b) just because Tzeentch told him not to do something doesn't necessarily mean he couldn't do it, only that after the intervention he didn't do it. Considering Ahriman was his favoured son, it's not unthinkable the moment of rage/anguish passed and Magnus opted to leave him unharmed.

Magnus' Psychichic Power in life and his refusal to obay Snaanesh. is exactly why he would not have as mutch additional power if any afforded him by Tzeentch. Tzeentch is methodical and paranoid to a fault, he would never risk another Skarbrand scenario occurring. especially as it was he who turn the GreaterDaemon on Khorne in the first place.

No Tzeentch would have Magnus' power ery tightly in check, friends close enemies closer.

And if your asking why would he stay on the planet of the scorcers and play Tzeentch's game? Simple. He like all pawns of Chaos has nowhere else to go


Automatically Appended Next Post:
yes I ment Tzeentch. oviously.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
although he doesn't do What Snaanesh tells him either, or Khorne, nor Nurgle.

He may be the last true renegade. albeit an unwilling one.

Having done some of my own research into this same subject, I'll share what I've gleaned from the fluff and lore out there

In short, Yes. The Daemon Primarchs are more powerful than their Daemon Prince counterparts.

I came to this conclusion whilst pouring through Black Library books as well as Fantasy Flight books. While reading Angel Exterminatus it occurred to me that there very few mentions of the Daemon Primarchs after Horus dies. Angron at Armageddon, Mortarion when Draigo vandalized him, Fulgrim with his dance with Gulliman, Magnus on Fenris, but rarely did any detail be thrown into these events (Except Angron at Armageddon). However it took a full brotherhood of Grey Knights to take down Angron, whereas it takes only a few Grey Knights to banish Daemon Princes without the added blessings of being representations of the greatest betrayals of the Emperor. In Pandorax Draigo converses with a Daemon Prince of Nurgle who (IMO) speaks in a subservient tone of Mortarion before Draigo singlehandedly defeats said Daemon Prince.

In the Fantasy Flight games the path to ascension is described as being a LOT of bad stuff, sacrificing populations of hive cities in bizarre rituals (Hail Slannesh!), poisoning an entire battlegroup with Nurgle's Rot (Blessings of Grandfather Nurgle go with you), turning a planet into a mutated magic infused daemon world for spellcasters (Vote for Real Change! Vote Tzeentch) or just filling a LITERAL BATTLEBARGE with skulls for the skull throne (BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD) and you MIGHT get a blessing from your patron. In the actual CSM Codex you can get to replace any model with a Daemon Prince model if you have one and get lucky which (again IMO) represents a lifetime spent in the service of Chaos and being rewarded for dirty deeds, done dirt cheap. In the CSM Codex it also says that Princehood is the highest reward that one can be granted and this appears to be true as well in the book Storm of Iron in which an Iron Warrior Warsmith is raised to Princehood.

However in the Chaos Daemons codex it states that Daemon Princes are considered of a lower caste of Daemon if they were raised to their position by way of being originally mortal. It is (from my memory) unclear on the subject of Warp Born daemon princes being considered the same way.

But in terms of strength and abilities it seems that (Angron, Magnus, and Mortarion) Daemon Primarchs are MUCH more powerful then regular Daemon as Abbadons 13th black crusade is launching with the plan for something called "The Path of Blood" or something like that in which the more destruction he causes, the more death he brings, and the wider the misery he causes is the more he can rely on the expansion of the Eye of Terror's influence. As this happens (and I can't remember where I read this) it will allow him to summon more denizens of the warp, more Daemon allies and eventually the Daemon Primarchs themselves. That seems to suggest to me that the Daemon Primarchs are more powerful.

Maybe the strength of the Prince is based on Bad Stuff You Did, or how much faith you have in your patron, or in Magnus and Fulgrims case how much time you spend bowing and scraping to the Four. Maybe it's based on how much Psk power you bring with you to the party, or dancing ability. How much sickness you spread and skulls you take, things like that. Maybe it's a point based system, but it appears that the more powerful you are before you go in also applies.

Except Lorgar. Cause he's too busy being Pious. and hasn't done anything since being turned to a Daemon Prince.
spanker.

Dark_Axxxe wrote:
Having done some of my own research into this same subject, I'll share what I've gleaned from the fluff and lore out there

In short, Yes. The Daemon Primarchs are more powerful than their Daemon Prince counterparts.

I came to this conclusion whilst pouring through Black Library books as well as Fantasy Flight books. While reading Angel Exterminatus it occurred to me that there very few mentions of the Daemon Primarchs after Horus dies. Angron at Armageddon, Mortarion when Draigo vandalized him, Fulgrim with his dance with Gulliman, Magnus on Fenris, but rarely did any detail be thrown into these events (Except Angron at Armageddon). However it took a full brotherhood of Grey Knights to take down Angron, whereas it takes only a few Grey Knights to banish Daemon Princes without the added blessings of being representations of the greatest betrayals of the Emperor. In Pandorax Draigo converses with a Daemon Prince of Nurgle who (IMO) speaks in a subservient tone of Mortarion before Draigo singlehandedly defeats said Daemon Prince.

In the Fantasy Flight games the path to ascension is described as being a LOT of bad stuff, sacrificing populations of hive cities in bizarre rituals (Hail Slannesh!), poisoning an entire battlegroup with Nurgle's Rot (Blessings of Grandfather Nurgle go with you), turning a planet into a mutated magic infused daemon world for spellcasters (Vote for Real Change! Vote Tzeentch) or just filling a LITERAL BATTLEBARGE with skulls for the skull throne (BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD) and you MIGHT get a blessing from your patron. In the actual CSM Codex you can get to replace any model with a Daemon Prince model if you have one and get lucky which (again IMO) represents a lifetime spent in the service of Chaos and being rewarded for dirty deeds, done dirt cheap. In the CSM Codex it also says that Princehood is the highest reward that one can be granted and this appears to be true as well in the book Storm of Iron in which an Iron Warrior Warsmith is raised to Princehood.

However in the Chaos Daemons codex it states that Daemon Princes are considered of a lower caste of Daemon if they were raised to their position by way of being originally mortal. It is (from my memory) unclear on the subject of Warp Born daemon princes being considered the same way.

But in terms of strength and abilities it seems that (Angron, Magnus, and Mortarion) Daemon Primarchs are MUCH more powerful then regular Daemon as Abbadons 13th black crusade is launching with the plan for something called "The Path of Blood" or something like that in which the more destruction he causes, the more death he brings, and the wider the misery he causes is the more he can rely on the expansion of the Eye of Terror's influence. As this happens (and I can't remember where I read this) it will allow him to summon more denizens of the warp, more Daemon allies and eventually the Daemon Primarchs themselves. That seems to suggest to me that the Daemon Primarchs are more powerful.

Maybe the strength of the Prince is based on Bad Stuff You Did, or how much faith you have in your patron, or in Magnus and Fulgrims case how much time you spend bowing and scraping to the Four. Maybe it's based on how much Psk power you bring with you to the party, or dancing ability. How much sickness you spread and skulls you take, things like that. Maybe it's a point based system, but it appears that the more powerful you are before you go in also applies.

Except Lorgar. Cause he's too busy being Pious. and hasn't done anything since being turned to a Daemon Prince.
spanker.

I would say this rings true whith what liitle I know of the Daemon Primarchs (21 years and counting). However there are two points on Daemon Princes that must be considered.

When a daemon is created from the soul of a mortal how much power can that soul contain, In the case of the Daemon Primarchs it would be a lot, but they are not wholy of the warp and so they still have a limmit to how much power they can contain before they Pop Like a Pimple. A warp born entity however is made initially at least of pure warp energy and therefore has no physical or mental limitations on how large or powerful they can become.

Take Ku'gath for examle he drank some granddad's tea and almost instantly went from Nurgling to Greater Daemon. Now if Nurgle wiished he could ifuse Ku'gath with the same comparative volume of power and make him 10 or 20 times more powerful than he originally was, a lot more powerful than Mortarion could ever hope to be.

The other thing to consider is controll. any warp born entity is merely an extension of it's patron's own will and largely infnitely loyal, (Skarbrand, bad boy) and therefore can be trusted as such.

The Primarchs In cntrast are very much pushing there own agendas, and some we can be certain (Magnus, Fulgrim) Intend a coop against their masters once they have achieved vengance against the Empire. As primarchs they are leaders, kings and gods. They were never programmed to serve but for one man, and any loyalty they towards the CorpseGod has long since eroded to nothing.

Because of this free will and self belief they will never achieve the true hights os of Daemonic Power.

Think on the lessons of Be'lakor. he was given near infinite power to point he could almost stand alone against the entire Chaos Pantheon. A mistake Hey woulld not repeat with the the Primarchs.

If the question posed at the start of this thread was could the Daemon Primarchs be notably more powerful than generic Daemon Princes? The anwser would be yes alot more.

The actual question posed however was are they? And the anwer is actually no, not by mutch anyway.

The Dark Gods won't allow it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For my money Lorgar by now would be yes the strongest of the Daemon Primarchs. He has four patrons to everyone elses one (none for Peturabo, shunning most sorcery and a mistrust of daemons may come back to bite the metal men in the butt some day).

Alot of people seem to think he's week because he's never tried to kill a world himself, and that he just prays alot.

Firsly prayer goes a long way with the Dark Gods Lorgar's chapter have sigle handedly converted more words to the worship of Chaos than all the other traitor legions put together.

And secondy a mster of the game always plays second. Let your enemy place their pieces and lay their cards. Then only when you know their plans and have seen their moves do you use that knowledge to tear them apart.

After all didn't your Mummy tell you "always watch the quiet ones"?

quick question.... can demon princes actually be killed? Or are they simply just banished to the warp akin to normal demons?

 Baldeagle91 wrote:
quick question.... can demon princes actually be killed? Or are they simply just banished to the warp akin to normal demons?

They just get banished.

I believe it's possibly to obliterate the warp coherence of a soul with a strong enough psychic attack. So you theoretically could do.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Baldeagle91 wrote:
quick question.... can demon princes actually be killed? Or are they simply just banished to the warp akin to normal demons?

They just get banished.

Hmmmm could that be a potential issue with the fluff then? The emperor and loyalist primarchs could be killed permanently, but the chaos primarchs would eventually come back even stronger?

 Baldeagle91 wrote:

 mrhappyface wrote:

 Baldeagle91 wrote:
quick question.... can demon princes actually be killed? Or are they simply just banished to the warp akin to normal demons?

They just get banished.

Hmmmm could that be a potential issue with the fluff then? The emperor and loyalist primarchs could be killed permanently, but the chaos primarchs would eventually come back even stronger?

I wouldn't say it is an issue with the fluff, it shows the hopelessness of staying loyal to the emperor as the unkillable and forever growing forces of daemons, nids, orks and necrons assail you. If you accepted the gifts of the ruinous powers you will live long enough to protect the galaxy from these foes but you will also likely live long enough to become the villain yourself.

It is fact that the only way the Empire could possibly survive the incursion of the immaterium is to seal chaos within the warp. This would require the sealing of all warp tears and then utterly destroying every and all psykers and neutralizing their soul and the warp signature they cast in the warp. This would include the Emperor.

Also anytime a space marine or guards man kills someone whilst angry or hateful they empower Khorne. All the while the mortal creatures of the universe die and becomes fuel for funcide life Nurgle's power. Every act of self indulgence or sensual gr