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 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Another book needed to play?

Getting this image of your average wargamer, weighed down by army carry cases, and a library full of books, struggling to take a step forward....

Then he or she keels over, stuff scatters everywhere, and scavenging dog monkeys swoop like vultures, grab the stuff and run off

On the other hand, the Imperial Agents does a lot to remedy this for people like me running a general Imperial army. I use the ebook codexes, but even then, having to keep switching between SM or IG, Deathwatch or GK, Inquisition and Skitarii in anything over about 1400 points is a right pain, so consolidation a bunch of those into one book actually makes things a lot simpler if you're just taking the basic stuff rather than the fancy toys of each codex.

 MadCowCrazy wrote:
So lets do some basic math shall we .....
.

Jup I fear for my inquisition army special rules / equipment, but who knows it might be good.

Just get the tablet or phone version? Surely most of us have one or the other...

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Another book needed to play?

Inquisition players do not even have a non digital book right now...

traitor legions video advert on facebook

https://www.facebook.com/WarhammerTVteam/videos/287982648263387/


date given 3rd Dec (not clear if tht's preorder or release)

Does this mean Chaos players will finally stop complai.... oh they've already started complaining about a book that's giving them mechanical rules for what they've wanted for years.

I'd like to see what they do for the EC and Slaanesh in general though. Anything even remotely similar to the Thousand Sons revamp for 40k and my wallet will need a therapist.

Also, I'm going to guess it's going to be either small detachments or formations with the profiles needed to run those detachments or formations, and not whole army list.

So the Sister of Battle one could be a Cannoness and a Battle Sister squad, a small formation to run some of them, and maybe a page or blurb with special rules for them.

Maybe a Grey Knight formation of 1-3 terminator squads, who must arrive by deep strike, and if 2 squads are within 12" they give models with the daemon special rule (including Daemons of blank) -1 invulns, and -2 for 3 squads.

Could be a generic inquisitor that simply combines all of the separate Ordos into one node, and you customize it as you chooose, and a warband for him.

Just spitballing - from the description, it seems to be a fun, fluffy book for imperial players, not a replacement book.

 oldzoggy wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:

You do realize you'll get to use this book for about 4-6 months before it is completely invalidated by the AOS'd 8th edition, right?

It all depends 8th might just
be a 6th -> 7th transition. In case he book is still useful.
Or it might be Wfb -> AoS. In case I will not switch systems and the book will still be useful.

I am starting to think this might be deliberate. One of the biggest and most justified complaints about the ending of warhammer fantasy was that certain factions, notably the Brettonians never got a final update.
It seems likely that the new edition of 40k will be a fairly major change. There will be a certain sector of the audience who will be reluctant to switch over. This is for them.
To use the video game analogy, Sony continued to put out ps2 games long after the ps3 came out.
In terms of book bloat the agents book is also a good idea.
Imagine an inquisitor led imperial guard army with a Deathwatch Kill team and an assassin. Before you would have needed 4 books, now you just need 2.

I imagine the whole of the existing Inquisition Codex will be folded into this book, if only because it has the same cover: GW doesn't like to dilute its brand identities.

Likewise, there's no reason not to include all the Assassins rules, since it's just four datasheets, a formation and wargear/special rules.

Sisters, as they currently stand, could fit in - they don't have many units, considering. But if there are single entries for Deathwatch and Grey Knights, that could set a precedent for them to only have a similar presence.

I'm fascinated to know what the chapter tactics will be

Alpha Legion: Something to do with infiltrating, scouting, reserve manipulation. Hopefully nothing to do with cultists

Word Bearers: Hard to predict because dark apostles are a thing that everybody can have now, and extra troops on the FOC is redundant these days. Maybe some greater integration with daemons (or straight access to some daemons units without allying) and/or something to do with possessed

Iron Warriors: Vindicators exist for everybody now... maybe some boost to heavy weapons that helps take down vehicles and fortifications. Basilisks?? Or... dare I say... wyverns??? (No probably not but it would be funny)

Night Lords: Fear across the army and night vision sounds reasonable. Raptor troops? They're better than CSM squads at least

Are Black Legion even considered a traitor legion any more? BL aren't just Sons of Horus any more so they're in an unusual position

I assume Thousand Sons are going to be in the traitor legions supplement. I am definitely buying them!!!

 Crazyterran wrote:
I wonder if the imoerialagents book will mix al the smaller codices together into bite size portions that imperial players can use for allies?

Like, a grey knight formation of 1-3 terminator squads and 0-1 HQs with a formation bonus to deep striking to show them intervening, to give you little fluffy options for allying them in, while the GK codex proper will still be used to represent a GK brotherhood deploying to war on its own.

It will be interesting to see!

Predictions of factions:

Wyrdvanes (replacing the Astra telepathica)
Inquisition
Assassins
Sisters
GKs
Deathwatch
Ad Mech
Skitarii
Knights

Pretty sure there was something actually stating Wyrdvanes are representing the Astra Telepathica.

My own thoughts:
Telepathica
Inquisition
Assassins
Sisters of Battle
Sisters of Silence
Custodes
Grey Knights
Deathwatch
Tempestus

I'm not sure why everyone is freaking out about the inormation dan2026 posted in the second paragraph, when the first paragraph seems WAY MORE WEIRD:

 dan2026 wrote:
TRAITOR LEGIONS 'Nine is the magic number this month, as within this 136-page softback supplement to Codex Space Marines are army special rules, exclusive Detachments, Warlord Traits, Tactical Objectives and Chaos Artefacts for each of the Traitor Legions - the nine legions who followed their Primarchs into treachery and heresy as they turned from the Emperor's light. (avail 10 Dec)

IMPERIAL AGENTS Loyal sons and daughters of the Imperium take heart, as whilst the Ruinous Powers may seek to be in ascendance as the year wanes, the God-Emperor's most righteous agents stalk the stars ready to enact his will.
Codex: Imperial Agents contains nine subfactions of the Imperial war-machine, from agents of the Inquisition to Wyrdvane Psykers of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica to reinforce your armies of the Imperium. After all, Deathwatch Kill Teams and Imperial Assassins are just as likely to be found working alongside regiments of the Astra MIlitarum or Space Marine strike forces as they are working by themselves, giving the Armies of the Imperium increased tactical choice and scope to conquer any foe.
Within this volume you'll find background and rules for using nine smaller factions alongside your existing armies of the Imperium, from the Grey Knight Terminator squads to the BATTLE SISTERS OF THE ADEPTA SORORITAS.

Did you read that again? Traitor Legions is a supplement for Codex Space Marines. Not for any chaos codex.


And if that's a typo or incorrect, why are we assuming that every word of the second paragraph is absolutely correct?

Chikout wrote:

 oldzoggy wrote:

 Stormonu wrote:

You do realize you'll get to use this book for about 4-6 months before it is completely invalidated by the AOS'd 8th edition, right?

It all depends 8th might just
be a 6th -> 7th transition. In case he book is still useful.
Or it might be Wfb -> AoS. In case I will not switch systems and the book will still be useful.

I am starting to think this might be deliberate. One of the biggest and most justified complaints about the ending of warhammer fantasy was that certain factions, notably the Brettonians never got a final update.
It seems likely that the new edition of 40k will be a fairly major change. There will be a certain sector of the audience who will be reluctant to switch over. This is for them.
To use the video game analogy, Sony continued to put out ps2 games long after the ps3 came out.
In terms of book bloat the agents book is also a good idea.
Imagine an inquisitor led imperial guard army with a Deathwatch Kill team and an assassin. Before you would have needed 4 books, now you just need 2.

From what little has been said about the potential 8th edition, it's been hinted that the goal isn't to just flat-out copy Age of Sigmar. The goal seems to be to make things accessible and a bit more fluid.

I don't have inside information. I don't have anything like that. If I had to make a guess though? I think we'll see:
The Weapon Skill and Ballistic Skill charts made to match each other.
Armor Penetration values become more akin to Rend values(The difference between your opponent's AP value and your Armor value becomes a modifier to the save roll; an AP5 weapon v. a 3+ save becomes no modifier but AP3 v a 4+ save becomes a -1 modifier)
Vehicles getting an overhaul, but within the constraints of vehicles and their current hull point mechanic.

Can't wait to see the furor that all of this causes when released and reviewed. (gets my astro-corn and sits back)

Da Butcha wrote:
I'm not sure why everyone is freaking out about the inormation dan2026 posted in the second paragraph, when the first paragraph seems WAY MORE WEIRD:

 dan2026 wrote:
TRAITOR LEGIONS 'Nine is the magic number this month, as within this 136-page softback supplement to Codex Space Marines are army special rules, exclusive Detachments, Warlord Traits, Tactical Objectives and Chaos Artefacts for each of the Traitor Legions - the nine legions who followed their Primarchs into treachery and heresy as they turned from the Emperor's light. (avail 10 Dec)

IMPERIAL AGENTS Loyal sons and daughters of the Imperium take heart, as whilst the Ruinous Powers may seek to be in ascendance as the year wanes, the God-Emperor's most righteous agents stalk the stars ready to enact his will.
Codex: Imperial Agents contains nine subfactions of the Imperial war-machine, from agents of the Inquisition to Wyrdvane Psykers of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica to reinforce your armies of the Imperium. After all, Deathwatch Kill Teams and Imperial Assassins are just as likely to be found working alongside regiments of the Astra MIlitarum or Space Marine strike forces as they are working by themselves, giving the Armies of the Imperium increased tactical choice and scope to conquer any foe.
Within this volume you'll find background and rules for using nine smaller factions alongside your existing armies of the Imperium, from the Grey Knight Terminator squads to the BATTLE SISTERS OF THE ADEPTA SORORITAS.

Did you read that again? Traitor Legions is a supplement for Codex Space Marines. Not for any chaos codex.


And if that's a typo or incorrect, why are we assuming that every word of the second paragraph is absolutely correct?

Everyone is assuming it's a typo, but it could be interesting if not. Allow CSM access to all of the core SM units, put more specific stuff in the traitor legion supplement (and/or a renegades supplement in future?!) Daemon engines could move into the Daemons codex, or even their own supplement.

As for the Imperial Agents codex, I'm really psyched, hoping it's the Inquisition plus friends, because that's the army I've wanted to build for years, ever since I first read the old Daemonhunters codex. Of course it's annoying that I've had to go through two Grey Knight codices, MT, Deathwatch and the copy/paste abomination of the current inquisition codex to get there. Here's hoping they do a better job this time.

 BroodSpawn wrote:
Does this mean Chaos players will finally stop complai.... oh they've already started complaining about a book that's giving them mechanical rules for what they've wanted for years.

I'd like to see what they do for the EC and Slaanesh in general though. Anything even remotely similar to the Thousand Sons revamp for 40k and my wallet will need a therapist.

Space Marine players cry more about CSM complainers than CSM players complain.

 MadCowCrazy wrote:
Imperial Agents is actually pretty bad news for Sisters players are it explains why only a Canoness has been rumoured for release at the end of Dec. Perhaps we will see a full sisters codex in Jan with a proper release but I'm starting to lose hope :(

As the old cliche amongst sisters players goes-- hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

Reject hope. Reject Tzeentch.

 Jadenim wrote:

Da Butcha wrote:
I'm not sure why everyone is freaking out about the inormation dan2026 posted in the second paragraph, when the first paragraph seems WAY MORE WEIRD:

 dan2026 wrote:
TRAITOR LEGIONS 'Nine is the magic number this month, as within this 136-page softback supplement to Codex Space Marines are army special rules, exclusive Detachments, Warlord Traits, Tactical Objectives and Chaos Artefacts for each of the Traitor Legions - the nine legions who followed their Primarchs into treachery and heresy as they turned from the Emperor's light. (avail 10 Dec)

Did you read that again? Traitor Legions is a supplement for Codex Space Marines. Not for any chaos codex.


And if that's a typo or incorrect, why are we assuming that every word of the second paragraph is absolutely correct?

Everyone is assuming it's a typo, but it could be interesting if not. Allow CSM access to all of the core SM units, put more specific stuff in the traitor legion supplement (and/or a renegades supplement in future?!) Daemon engines could move into the Daemons codex, or even their own supplement.

As for the Imperial Agents codex, I'm really psyched, hoping it's the Inquisition plus friends, because that's the army I've wanted to build for years, ever since I first read the old Daemonhunters codex. Of course it's annoying that I've had to go through two Grey Knight codices, MT, Deathwatch and the copy/paste abomination of the current inquisition codex to get there. Here's hoping they do a better job this time.

I suspect it's not a typo and is basically saying that the legions (and any new chapters that fall as one) as still basically space marines with similar rules and equipment so will play off codex space marines with a bit of chaos flavour probably on the special characters that drove their fall

then as things fall apart over time and they become more warped by chaos, loose equipment they can't maintain etc and start to get more acess to demonic stuff they'll end up becoming more generic chaos marines

you can have all your cool chaos toys AND all the benefits of being a strongly organised and equipped Marine force at the same time

All the Sisters release rumors pointed to Jan-Feb, so I'm doubtful that this is the same thing. Imperial Agents looks to be more along the lines of what others have stated: A way to include single units from these smaller Imperial factions with the more fleshed-out Imperial codices.

Considering that both of these books land squarely in the midst of my main 40k armies, there is a very good chance that I will be getting both...

And will need to get started on the painting of my own personal mount gray plastic so that my Alpha Legion, Thousand Sons, World Eaters, Death Guard and Emperor's Children get the love they deserve, and that my Raging Heroes inquisitor gets a proper army list...

It could actually be a clever idea of the Traitor Legions book was a supplement for C:SM instead of C:CSM. That could allow for 30K players to port over much of their armies.

But I doubt that's what it is.

 Paradigm wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Another book needed to play?

Getting this image of your average wargamer, weighed down by army carry cases, and a library full of books, struggling to take a step forward....

Then he or she keels over, stuff scatters everywhere, and scavenging dog monkeys swoop like vultures, grab the stuff and run off

On the other hand, the Imperial Agents does a lot to remedy this for people like me running a general Imperial army. I use the ebook codexes, but even then, having to keep switching between SM or IG, Deathwatch or GK, Inquisition and Skitarii in anything over about 1400 points is a right pain, so consolidation a bunch of those into one book actually makes things a lot simpler if you're just taking the basic stuff rather than the fancy toys of each codex.

I've been out of the game for a few years now, so I have no idea what it's like anymore.

I know they still have space marines, and that's about it

But I remember the days when the Blood Angels and the Dark Angels were rolled into one book, so perhaps we're seeing a return to that format?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 oldzoggy wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Another book needed to play?

Inquisition players do not even have a non digital book right now...

That bad?

Inquisition is one of the few armies I've never played against...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On another note, when I looked at that codex cover, my first impression of an Imperial Agent was a tax collector.

I'm sure there is something in the background about Imperial Tax collectors, armed to the teeth, making sure the Imperium gets what it is due...

Naturally of course, the 40k background is full of people who refused to stump up for various reasons....

Huron Blackheart being an infamous example...

That would have been a good codex idea. And they could have had their own spells: the lore of the taxman:

Special Psychic power: Red Tape.

3+ to cast. Range 18 inches. If successful, target unit is immobolised for 1 turn, as they pause to fill out tax return.

If target unit rolls two 6s in defence, they have sucessfully gained a rebate, and the spell fizzles out


Government Audit:

7+ to cast. Range: 4D6.

If successful, target unit must submit all rulebooks and codex books they own for a full audit and may not use any special rules or powers from affected books for 2 turns...

And so on....

Hmm hmm hmmm, if this brings SoB and the rumoured Canoness and Plastic Squad, I know now what Kill Team I am getting.

GW is raiding my wallet so damn hard this year.

As I've been toying with the idea of completely rewriting all rules and codexes from the ground up the way I would do SM and CSM is the following.

Take Codex SM and baseline every single entry (what I mean is no chapter specific stuff included with anything). Then create Legion unit cards. Say you want CSM Berserkers, you look at the Berserker entry and it's basically Use Tactical Marine, +3 points cost, Add +1WS and +1A, remove Boltgun etc etc

With a system like this you could balance both SM and CSM very easily, have unique rules and wargear for all chapters without having to write a completely new codex for every damned legion. Need to change something, change the baseline unit entry and it's updated for every single Legion at the same time. Then again GW does love to force us to buy books that leave much to be desired...

Did contact GW about this but they basically said they are not interested in balancing the game at the moment, probably due to 8E and what it will do to the game. If/When 8E ruins the game I will have a more serious look at my Co-Deck Project.

If the Imperial Agents book lets me pick up small amounts of several armies, that would be cool. Plus, I want physical rules for inquisition and assassins.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
Another book needed to play?

Getting this image of your average wargamer, weighed down by army carry cases, and a library full of books, struggling to take a step forward....

Then he or she keels over, stuff scatters everywhere, and scavenging dog monkeys swoop like vultures, grab the stuff and run off

At the very least it'll get some needed exercise to some people.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Oh my. When BoLS was reporting this rumor earlier I laughed it off, but this is a real surprise.

Wow... Sisters... not squatted... but relegated to a portion of a book? I'm not sure how I feel about that... but it does make sense. Hell, I wish they rolled in my Grey Knights as that Codex is pretty damn lean with decent units, and could've easily shared this book too.

When did BOLS report this?

 pretre wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Oh my. When BoLS was reporting this rumor earlier I laughed it off, but this is a real surprise.

Wow... Sisters... not squatted... but relegated to a portion of a book? I'm not sure how I feel about that... but it does make sense. Hell, I wish they rolled in my Grey Knights as that Codex is pretty damn lean with decent units, and could've easily shared this book too.

When did BOLS report this?

A few hours before I saw it circulating with Warhammer's Community-Rumor page, as a source.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 pretre wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Oh my. When BoLS was reporting this rumor earlier I laughed it off, but this is a real surprise.

Wow... Sisters... not squatted... but relegated to a portion of a book? I'm not sure how I feel about that... but it does make sense. Hell, I wish they rolled in my Grey Knights as that Codex is pretty damn lean with decent units, and could've easily shared this book too.

When did BOLS report this?

A few hours before I saw it circulating with Warhammer's Community-Rumor page, as a source.

Just for clarification, the original rumor on lady atia's blog indicated that Grey Knights ARE getting rolled in as one of the 9 factions.