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 Hragged wrote:



It will be mine. Oh yes, it will be mine.

We can split it, I'll take the Sisters of Battle part and you can take...whatever other thing they crammed into the Sister's book.

So they're reprinting the e codex as part of this agents and all the Sisters rumors were false?

I would be stunned if GW give SoB a model release, much less the rumoured one with all those kits and not a codex. You're basically telling people, "they aren't meant to be taken as a full army so don't buy them". It would be completely stupid business sense, it's why Deathwatch and Cults got full army treatment. So people will buy 50 hybrids as opposed to a squad and a HQ (if that) for their existing Tyranids army. Being a full army sells models.

If they do, well, wow. I like the lore and art and feel that sharing the codex would seriously cheapen that.

From what's been described, this is strikingly similar to the "Grand Alliance" books for AoS.

Which I like, pricewise.

 Kanluwen wrote:
From what's been described, this is strikingly similar to the "Grand Alliance" books for AoS.

Which I like, pricewise.

Which is fine...except they've pretty much phased out grand alliance stuff in favor of individual battletomes. Because the battletomes sell better. Because, as cool as it is to have everything in one book...very few people actually NEED everything and when there's stuff in the book you don't want but you still have to buy the book, it feels a little like throwing money away.

On that note, IMPERIAL AGENTS.

I am glad for Codex: Imperial Agents. It's something I've been yelling about for a good year and a half now.

Same here. Assuming they don't half-ass sisters in the process that is. I half expect it to be mostly copy paste again though. Hopefully I'm wrong. A codex like this makes sense in my mind, doubly so with custodes now and the thought of pushing the threat of chaos towards terra.

heybiff wrote:
In our haste to get our hands on these new book, lets just remember that GW has only delivered on 1 of 7 supplements (Deamonkin)in the last 3 years. Lets not get ahead of ourselves.

Hey now don't hate on Codex: Gorepack!

 Roknar wrote:
Same here. Assuming they don't half-ass sisters in the process that is. I half expect it to be mostly copy paste again though. Hopefully I'm wrong. A codex like this makes sense in my mind, doubly so with custodes now and the thought of pushing the threat of chaos towards terra.

This book is a "gateway drug" book, with no doubt a little of everything in it (Inquisitors, Sisters, GKs, Deathwatch, Ad-Mech, etc.) that will allow people to 'taste' a bit of armies and from there they can get the proper books.

It probably doubles as a "test the waters" book for GW. Release a Canoness and a SoB Squad. If it does well, full book. If it doesn't, it's an option from a new Codex they just released.

 Roknar wrote:
Same here. Assuming they don't half-ass sisters in the process that is. I half expect it to be mostly copy paste again though. Hopefully I'm wrong. A codex like this makes sense in my mind, doubly so with custodes now and the thought of pushing the threat of chaos towards terra.

Genestealers came out fairly interesting (not sure on the power level, but interesting) so there is some hope. GW has made enough right moves for me to trust them on this one.

Doesn't sound like this book is going have any full armies in it, just a bunch of small formations, units, and characters.

That's what's got me worried a bit. It would have to have at least like 3 codices worth of units. Unless they are going to do some radical changes. Like build-a-unit sandbox level kind of radical.

Sisters if battle AND traitor legions? dreams do come true. Just hope they don't screw the pouch on rules.

My cynicism will soon be paid off, and once again Sisters are going to get screwed over again-- oh yey, I get to tell people "I told you so". How great for me.

ERJAK wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
From what's been described, this is strikingly similar to the "Grand Alliance" books for AoS.

Which I like, pricewise.

Which is fine...except they've pretty much phased out grand alliance stuff in favor of individual battletomes. Because the battletomes sell better. Because, as cool as it is to have everything in one book...very few people actually NEED everything and when there's stuff in the book you don't want but you still have to buy the book, it feels a little like throwing money away.

Strictly speaking, that's not true.

They've released the Grand Alliances that exist. We got Order, Death, Chaos, and Destruction. Those are the 4. From there, we've been getting the Battletomes.

My question on these two supplements...
Since I doubt that GW will be able to produce new cult troops and elites for all of the Legions before the end of December... does this mean that GW is moving past the Chapterhouse debacle (not producing rules for things that don't have released models)? The way rapid prototyping and casting works these days, someone could seriously be selling GW knockoffs inspired miniatures within the day. Would Roundtree take that chance?

 Kanluwen wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
From what's been described, this is strikingly similar to the "Grand Alliance" books for AoS.

Which I like, pricewise.

Which is fine...except they've pretty much phased out grand alliance stuff in favor of individual battletomes. Because the battletomes sell better. Because, as cool as it is to have everything in one book...very few people actually NEED everything and when there's stuff in the book you don't want but you still have to buy the book, it feels a little like throwing money away.

Strictly speaking, that's not true.

They've released the Grand Alliances that exist. We got Order, Death, Chaos, and Destruction. Those are the 4. From there, we've been getting the Battletomes.

The problem with the GA books is they have nothing in them you can't get for free while the battletomes and the general's handbook contain rules you can't get otherwise. Which makes the GA books more of an optional purchase while they push out the battletomes as being less so.

Wait, why is everyone freaking out?

From the description it doesn't sound like anyone's getting squatted or rolled up, it sounds like Imperial Agents is designed as a way to provide "standard" Imperial armies access to small, contained units from the smaller/more elite Imperial factions - one squad of GK Terminators, a unit of Sanctioned Psykers etc.

If it's an indication of any rules changes, I'd lean more in the direction that GW are planning to heavily curb the Allies system in the new edition of 40K(perhaps, if they follow the General's Handbook model, by saying no or heavily limited Allies in Matched Play?) and this is a way to ensure Imperial players keep cross-purchasing from various factions to tempt them into starting new armies.

Or it might just be that they wanted a way to put out Custodes/SoS/Inquisition rules in a physical book but needed additional content to justify the price, so they threw in a selection of single-squad Formations from other factions that fit that role in the fluff to let folk bring in other factions with a lower buy-in than a full scale Formation or Ally Detachment.

Seriously, relax. GW might be a bit more unpredictable of late, but GK were popular enough on their own that they were essentially the only survivors from the 3rd/4th Edition Inquisition codex experiments, I doubt their sales have dropped so far that GW would be squatting them.

As for Sisters, well, we'll just have to hope that we get a Cannoness & a basic Battle Sister squad along with this as a taster, and the "proper" release is late Janurary or February. If it turns out that this was the basis of the Sisters rumours I might actually blub a little.

 Yodhrin wrote:
From the description it doesn't sound like anyone's getting squatted or rolled up, it sounds like Imperial Agents is designed as a way to provide "standard" Imperial armies access to small, contained units from the smaller/more elite Imperial factions - one squad of GK Terminators, a unit of Sanctioned Psykers etc.

Because it'll be another excuse to not have a proper release. And GW doesn't exactly need any more excuses.

 n0t_u wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
From what's been described, this is strikingly similar to the "Grand Alliance" books for AoS.

Which I like, pricewise.

Which is fine...except they've pretty much phased out grand alliance stuff in favor of individual battletomes. Because the battletomes sell better. Because, as cool as it is to have everything in one book...very few people actually NEED everything and when there's stuff in the book you don't want but you still have to buy the book, it feels a little like throwing money away.

Strictly speaking, that's not true.

They've released the Grand Alliances that exist. We got Order, Death, Chaos, and Destruction. Those are the 4. From there, we've been getting the Battletomes.

The problem with the GA books is they have nothing in them you can't get for free while the battletomes and the general's handbook contain rules you can't get otherwise. Which makes the GA books more of an optional purchase while they push out the battletomes as being less so.

The GA books are an optional purchase, however they do contain some of the unique battalions from the campaign books...making them a cheap way of obtaining said battalions and being a good buy for someone with multiple armies.

 Quarterdime wrote:
I don't understand the Imperial Agents part. With the Armies of the Imperium in the allies section, every Imperial unit can be played just fine with every other Imperial unit. Is this just making it easier to include single units from another codex, like letting them be part of a CAD? What are we looking forward to here?

Maybe this is providing a rules update to all the odds and ends of the Imperium, but then referencing Deathwatch wouldn't make any sense because they just had a release. I don't understand...

I am hopeful that this is a hint that a book like this will be required to take Imperium BB in 8th. GW has certainly figured out what the new 8th ed ally matrix will be, and how this book will fit into it.

IF the new ally matrix significantly weakens the IOM Battle Brothers, then this book may be a compensation.

Maybe. We Non-imperium armies without battle brothers can only hope.

 Kanluwen wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
From what's been described, this is strikingly similar to the "Grand Alliance" books for AoS.

Which I like, pricewise.

Which is fine...except they've pretty much phased out grand alliance stuff in favor of individual battletomes. Because the battletomes sell better. Because, as cool as it is to have everything in one book...very few people actually NEED everything and when there's stuff in the book you don't want but you still have to buy the book, it feels a little like throwing money away.

Strictly speaking, that's not true.

They've released the Grand Alliances that exist. We got Order, Death, Chaos, and Destruction. Those are the 4. From there, we've been getting the Battletomes.

Yes, they released the grand alliance tomes a long time ago and are slowly invalidating the contents of those books. For example, flesh eater courts, as far as matched play is concerned, completely replaces ALL of the crossover warscrolls (as the FEC ones are the only ones that got points) which means things like it's impossible to summon a terrorgeist or zombie dragon and that none of the ghouls or crypt-whatevers can be summoned by death wizards anymore. Now again this is matched play only but that was quite the kick in the nads.

ERJAK wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
From what's been described, this is strikingly similar to the "Grand Alliance" books for AoS.

Which I like, pricewise.

Which is fine...except they've pretty much phased out grand alliance stuff in favor of individual battletomes. Because the battletomes sell better. Because, as cool as it is to have everything in one book...very few people actually NEED everything and when there's stuff in the book you don't want but you still have to buy the book, it feels a little like throwing money away.

Strictly speaking, that's not true.

They've released the Grand Alliances that exist. We got Order, Death, Chaos, and Destruction. Those are the 4. From there, we've been getting the Battletomes.

Yes, they released the grand alliance tomes a long time ago and are slowly invalidating the contents of those books. For example, flesh eater courts, as far as matched play is concerned, completely replaces ALL of the crossover warscrolls (as the FEC ones are the only ones that got points) which means things like it's impossible to summon a terrorgeist or zombie dragon and that none of the ghouls or crypt-whatevers can be summoned by death wizards anymore. Now again this is matched play only but that was quite the kick in the nads.

And that's the keywords there.
Matched play only.

 Kanluwen wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
From what's been described, this is strikingly similar to the "Grand Alliance" books for AoS.

Which I like, pricewise.

Which is fine...except they've pretty much phased out grand alliance stuff in favor of individual battletomes. Because the battletomes sell better. Because, as cool as it is to have everything in one book...very few people actually NEED everything and when there's stuff in the book you don't want but you still have to buy the book, it feels a little like throwing money away.

Strictly speaking, that's not true.

They've released the Grand Alliances that exist. We got Order, Death, Chaos, and Destruction. Those are the 4. From there, we've been getting the Battletomes.

Yes, they released the grand alliance tomes a long time ago and are slowly invalidating the contents of those books. For example, flesh eater courts, as far as matched play is concerned, completely replaces ALL of the crossover warscrolls (as the FEC ones are the only ones that got points) which means things like it's impossible to summon a terrorgeist or zombie dragon and that none of the ghouls or crypt-whatevers can be summoned by death wizards anymore. Now again this is matched play only but that was quite the kick in the nads.

And that's the keywords there.
Matched play only.

I know I know, it IS only 70% of all games but it's still pretty annoying.

Let's not cream our pants about the Traitor Legions book just yet. It could still be completely insulting, like maybe if you play Night Lords you get raptors as Troops, also here's a formation for them. Something like that.

I can tell you that since the Thousand Sons are on the cover of this book it's safe to say that the new rules for them will be found here (outside of the campaign set, I mean) and that anything else that's in there isn't expected to be subject to change moving forward, so I believe what we have to look forward to for the next 3 years are new model releases for existing units. In other words, don't expect any sonic hellbrutes, or any plague towers, or any of the other legions getting this expansive treatment. This book means that moving forward we're going to see Primarchs and updated miniatures. Which is still good news, but I think that if you're crossing your fingers for something this amazing happening to the others, you're making a mistake.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Wait, why is everyone freaking out?

From the description it doesn't sound like anyone's getting squatted or rolled up, it sounds like Imperial Agents is designed as a way to provide "standard" Imperial armies access to small, contained units from the smaller/more elite Imperial factions - one squad of GK Terminators, a unit of Sanctioned Psykers etc.

As for Sisters, well, we'll just have to hope that we get a Cannoness & a basic Battle Sister squad along with this as a taster, and the "proper" release is late Janurary or February. If it turns out that this was the basis of the Sisters rumours I might actually blub a little.

Another major purpose to this book seems to be to consolidate/update all the various Imperial faction units in one place, rather than having Codex Inquisition and Legions of the Damned as e-codices, Assassins as part of the Mont-Ka supplement, Militarum Tempestus as their own mini-codex with 5 units in it, and Sisters from a out of date WD/e-codex. Since Sisters are in the book, and the Inquisition is in it, may as well throw in small units from Deathwatch and Grey Knights to serve as Chambers Militant, while leaving their full codices to run fuller armies. We could see small forces, like a Brother Captain and terminator or strike squad, and Watch Captain and kill team, then say a comparible Sisters release for now- Canoness and battle sister squad to get the models out now and judge demand before doing a fuller Sisters of Battle codex.

Just thinking out loud.

 Quarterdime wrote:
Let's not cream our pants about the Traitor Legions book just yet. It could still be completely insulting, like maybe if you play Night Lords you get raptors as Troops, also here's a formation for them. Something like that.

I can tell you that since the Thousand Sons are on the cover of this book it's safe to say that the new rules for them will be found here (outside of the campaign set, I mean) and that anything else that's in there isn't expected to be subject to change moving forward, so I believe what we have to look forward to for the next 3 years are new model releases for existing units. In other words, don't expect any sonic hellbrutes, or any plague towers, or any of the other legions getting this expansive treatment. This book means that moving forward we're going to see Primarchs and updated miniatures. Which is still good news, but I think that if you're crossing your fingers for something this amazing happening to the others, you're making a mistake.

I'd expect something like Angels of Death and Traitors hate- a set of formations, plus a detachment for each legion with additional rules, relics, and traits that use those formations plus auxillaries.

On new units, I'd actually think they are more likely now, not less. The releases we have been seeing are starting to resemble what we would get in 4th-5th edition- 1 to 3 characters, 2 infantry/elite infantry sized kits, a vehicle or two, and sometimes a large misc kit. Back then, much of the release was converting metal/resin units over to plastic or replacing ancient kits. Now we are seeing releases on a lot faster pace (releases on a weekly/biweekly level instead of once a month) and with many of the old kits now done in plastic, they are going more for themed releases than a mix of "some old kits that need replaced plus a few new units we felt like making new models for). The last release like that I'd say was Tau, with their updates to Fire Warriors, Crisis and Commander suits, then the addition of the big suits and terrain. Besides them, we are seeing mainly the expansion of mini-factions- in Sigmar and with many of the new armies in 40K, instead of the traditional codex + models release.

This new Thousand Sons release fits that approach of "mini-factionalism" more than the traditional release style. They didn't go with just Magnus, updated Rubric Marines and Ahriman. The Terminators, Tzangors and sorcerer kits were relatively unexpected compared to the first two (and Ahriman as well, since they just came out with the HH version). Instead of merely adding a Lord of War and updating the old resin kit, they expanded the Tzeentch element of CSM into it's own entity. I'd expect future releases to follow the same approach. Instead of just a Plague marine kit, what is more likely is a Nurgle based force- plague marines, death reaper terminators, plague zombie cultists, typhus, mortarian, and maybe another kit. Berzerkers, Angron, Juggernaut riding marines and lord and something like the old Deathdealer for Khorne.

Instead of mashing them all together, GW seems to be taking the time to make the various sub-factions within an army into their own distinct entities, to the point of pulling units out of codices to expand on them- Harlequins and Genestealers/cultists and now Tzeentch Marines.

Not holding my breath at all for legions. A few gimmicky formations most likely, with 1-2 legions being head and shoulders above the rest (*yawn* Nurgle). What surprises me is that they said '9 legions', when they've spent a decade reducing the 5 undivided legions down to nothing more than the Icon of Vengeance.

I've always wanted to run an "Unblinking =][=" force with my Deathwatch Marines as the main force, with Grey Knight Termis and Sisters as support for that once in a millennia situation where everyone is on the same page and working together rather than at cross purposes.

As WesJanson mentions I think this combination would work well for it.

With this book included, Chaos has so many sources to draw from that you can basically create any type of army you like. Clearly they have listened, since this is what many of us CSM players have wanted for a couple of editions.

Too bad I dont remember all the naysayers names who a bit over a year ago were in bitter denial about GW changing their ways, ready to jump on anyone who thought otherwise. Well, you were, and are, wrong.

Just one of the now dozens of good moves. Dunno if theres tournament tier 1 level stuff in the traitor book, but I have a hunch a few combos will emerge, perhaps when used with IA or Daemons/KDK/Cabal.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I'd expect future releases to follow the same approach. Instead of just a Plague marine kit, what is more likely is a Nurgle based force- plague marines, death reaper terminators, plague zombie cultists, typhus, mortarian, and maybe another kit. Berzerkers, Angron, Juggernaut riding marines and lord and something like the old Deathdealer for Khorne.

The problem being, they are releasing the traitor legion formations now... which probably means no new units for the other legions.

I'll take new units for T-sons and new formations, (but it's still just bloat on the same old CSM codex). And old-new daemonettes. Why is this all at the same time haha. If FW drop more thousand sons stuff I'm screwed.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Finally. FINALLY.

It has been a long and dark decade in the wilderness. Over 9 years since the Great Betrayal that saw the Legions rendered down to nothing but a paint job. We have spent an untold amount of days listening to the laughter of thirsty morons, with their cries of "counts as" and "the Legions are all broken up and shouldn't have rules" as they lap up the endless attention the Loyalists get, not just in rules but in miniature releases as well.

We still don't have plastic Oblits. We still don't have plastic heavy weapons. Most of our HQ's are resin. When they last gave us vehicles we got Dinobots and Hellturkeys. And as much as I like the kit, our basic infantry haven't really been updated in over 10 years (meanwhile the Blood Angels get their own special Tac Squad, even though they don't differ from regular Tac Squads, and all the loyalists got conversion kits on top of their special squads).

But no more! After such a long time listening to people tell us why we couldn't have what Forge World clearly proved what could be done with Legion rules, the time has time come.

Come for what, you ask?

VINDICATION!



Rue this day, all'a y'all who said Traitor Legions shouldn't get rules. Rue it hard!

You do realize you'll get to use this book for about 4-6 months before it is completely invalidated by the AOS'd 8th edition, right?