Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The traitors legion video only shows 8 icons, I'm guessing sons of horus are missing as they became the black legion if I'm not mistaken?

Alpha legion was missing in the first version, it is included by now.

 MadCowCrazy wrote:
The traitors legion video only shows 8 icons, I'm guessing sons of horus are missing as they became the black legion if I'm not mistaken?

The missing one was the Alpha Legion, but GW said they were in in the comments. The Black Legion icon is the eye in the chaos star.

 Capamaru wrote:
I think we can all agree on the fact that Chaos players need some love too. The fact that the last decent Chaos codex dates back to 3rd edition and the fact that finally GW is paying attention to chaos traitors legions again is making me happy.
On the other hand I am curious what the supplement Imperial agents will include and when they will update the Gk codex. They are outdated and weak right now.

They have a 7th ed codex and don't have the model range to run a multi-formation detachment, what would you want them to do?

Not every army should have a massive breadth of units, grey knights, my harlequins, tempestus scions all should be specialist armies with very focused play styles. That is their entire reason for existing. With the death from the skies supplement, you now have access to all the flyers with heavy weapons you could want. It literally fills all the niches that grey knights currently struggle with (anti air for fmc's and decent anti armor)

 oldzoggy wrote:

ShaneMarsh wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:

The new one allows you to add small forces - like a single squad of Grey Knight Terminators - to your army. GW already posted an overview of the Imperial Agents army list.

Where?

Yeah I would love to see this....

I confused the White Dwarf leak from Reddit. I thought it was from their facebook page, my bad. That WD info has been confirmed as mentioned earlier. If you know that Imperial Agents was a regular faction in 2nd Edition - like Genestealer Cults for example - and you read the extracts from White Dwarf it is clear GW brings back that faction. Like if they wrote about Genestealer Cults. But even then some jumped to the conclusion it would be a Tyranid update which it wasnt (for obvious reasons) but a fully fleshed out GSC force on its own. Imperial Agents is another army GW brings back

What Master Sheol posted (while I slept) is what I meant with my comment

 master sheol wrote:
Most people here are speculating wildly cause they never played second edition of 40K...

In the second edition starter box (2nd Battle of Armageddon Orks vs BA) there was a book called: CODEX ARMY LISTS including temporary lists for all armies until individual codices were released...

SM and IG armies could spend 25% of their points in allies taken from a list called IMPERIAL AGENTS...

This list was including:
Adeptus Arbites
Adeptus Mechanicus
Adeptus Ministrorum
Adeptus Astra Telepathica
Officio Assassinorum
Inquisition
Grey Knights

in third edition GW introduced the Deathwatch too as a single alliable KIll Team (one single squad for each imperial army)

Now i guess the new codex Imperial Agents will be VERY similar to that list... For example i dont think we will see Adeptus Arbites (they are more suited for a game like Necromunda) but we will get things like Deathwatch, Adeptus Custodes and Sisters of Silence...

So there is still room for a full SoB codex...

When you are in doubt about theGW of these days look back to 40k from RT to third edition and you will have the reply...

 Arbitrator wrote:
We know that 8th is coming soon. They may not want to release a new Sisters of Battle 'dex before then, but throwing their existing rules into Codex: Allies of Space Marines (because we know that's what it's really meant to be for) may tempt people to 'wet their palette' a little and be more inclined to buy the full release later.

 MadCowCrazy wrote:

 CragHack wrote:
What if...What if...ADEPTUS ARBITES? :O

This wouldn't really fit as they aren't agents, they are just a police force. You would call people working for the Secret Service, FBI, CIA, KGB etc Agents but not anyone from the local police force. Also there are no models for them so they wouldn't be in the book (unless we'd see a release for them in Dec).

Arbites are the Imperium's FBI though. Local police are whoever/whatever the government there raise locally as enforcers and their authority extends to that planet alone, whilst Arbites maintain the much smaller - better trained and equipped - federal' force who are there enforce Imperial law, such as making sure tithes are met, keeping an eye on planetary governors, etc.

In many ways, Arbites are the perfect fluffy foil to things like Genestealer or Chaos cults.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
After 20 years, one would think you'd have gotten the hint.

And yet there are still Sisters players.

You'd think both of them would have moved on by now.

Is it going to be called Imperial Agents and not "Astra Agentorium" or something more copyrightable?

Just going to. leave.. this.. here.
http://imgur.com/a/iYISl

Mirthless56 wrote:
Just going to. leave.. this.. here.
http://imgur.com/a/iYISl

Spoiler:

[img]http://i.imgur.com/RORGFQN.jpg

[/img]

Welp, can't get any more certain than that. Straight from a WD picture.

Now I just need to wait for the rumoured plastic SoB squad and canoness to throw YET more money at GW ... (I am so curious to read more about the Astra Telephatica. I hope the book brings lots of fluff and pretty pics!)

Thanks Mirthless56

Reading that - it could be just rules / formations etc for existing units that are alongside Imperial forces?

So it may not have stats for units?

Or just any new ones like Sisters of Silence / Custodes - although again they are not actually mentioned.

I am hoping for lots of cool fluff and imagery alongside this initial rumoured release of a Canoness and Sisters squad

So this might actually contain formations for GK.

 Capamaru wrote:
So this might actually contain formations for GK.

Hopefully yes and for Sisters!!

I think it may be formations that contain a vairety of different subfactions and as they are the same codex would allow for Inquisitors to hitch a lift with other Imeprial agents and their flyers / drop pods etc?

I dont think it will. This is a self-contained book. Gk, if they get an update at all, will be in WZF II

So... cautiously optimistic about the Chaos Legions book.

On the one hand, the Legion specific rules cited in the post by San Panda would certainly make Chaos more interesting to play. OTOH, the rules listed would have little impact unless there was an accompanying change in points cost.

Thousand Sons, for instance, seem like a great force with the new models, until you stop to think what a unit of Rubric marines actually costs. If we are adding the costs of 5 flamers and heavy weapons to the squad, it becomes impossible to field a large force of them.

I want to see the points for all this before I get my hopes up. Points costs could be achieved by literally altering the points for certain units, or through formations that modify what it costs for each. I am envisioning a book with a lot of formations and some chapter specific rules that keep the current costs for models and add a tax for some units no one likes to play.

This has much less detail in it than the description of wrath of magnus we saw in the other thread. Strange that it's called codex but it says hardly anything about actual rules and refers to "your existing armies" which I would read as "you still need the other codices".

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
This has much less detail in it than the description of wrath of magnus we saw in the other thread. Strange that it's called codex but it says hardly anything about actual rules and refers to "your existing armies" which I would read as "you still need the other codices".

For the main army, of course. For the flavour units in this Codex, of course not. It'll be full rules for the units within, anything else is loopy.

 techsoldaten wrote:
So... cautiously optimistic about the Chaos Legions book.

On the one hand, the Legion specific rules cited in the post by San Panda would certainly make Chaos more interesting to play. OTOH, the rules listed would have little impact unless there was an accompanying change in points cost.

Thousand Sons, for instance, seem like a great force with the new models, until you stop to think what a unit of Rubric marines actually costs. If we are adding the costs of 5 flamers and heavy weapons to the squad, it becomes impossible to field a large force of them.

I want to see the points for all this before I get my hopes up. Points costs could be achieved by literally altering the points for certain units, or through formations that modify what it costs for each. I am envisioning a book with a lot of formations and some chapter specific rules that keep the current costs for models and add a tax for some units no one likes to play.

Where's Sad Pandas post? I need my rules fix.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
After 20 years, one would think you'd have gotten the hint.

And yet there are still Sisters players.

The other army famous for holding onto grudges for very long times.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
After 20 years, one would think you'd have gotten the hint.

And yet there are still Sisters players.

Well, to be fair, Sisters have had one or two updates in that time.

Those don't really count as "updates"... more like afterthoughts.


This a guess, but with the clear indication that it contains something for Grey Knights and Deathwatch, I think in addition to formations to cover those books we'll see some sort of single unit killteam entry for each that can be taken in a way similar to Assassins, without any requisites and in addition to normal allies being taken. Maybe something that reflects the old DW kill team rules with assault weapons and a character mixed into that single entry... or the much older GK rules representing a single unit attached to an army that was 3 GK terminators that were straight up librarians.

All tied together as the typical allied forms that might assist an Inquisitor as opposed to the full mobilization of an army.

 Breotan wrote:

Well, to be fair, Sisters have had one or two updates in that time.

"to be fair"? How about unfair, the rules in the 3E Witch Hunter codex are arguably better than in the WD and Digital. WD made the army allot worse, Digital made it even worse still. Faith system which is the one thing that makes Sisters unique borders on useless for most units... Canoness, your army HQ, gets Hatred for one phase because close combat is exactly where you want to be with your WS3 S3 T3 I3 1A army. Celestian command squed, the most veteran of veteran sisters get Move Through Cover for one phase... wow... really?

Witch Hunter codex rules with points costs from the digital would create a much better codex. For the love of the Emperor why does an Eviscerator cost 30pts?! A SM pays the same for a chainfist (which an Eviscerator is) but theirs is S8 Ap2 whilst the sisters is S6 Ap2. A Repentia model costs 15pts and comes with one!

The WD and Digital Sororitas Codexes are complete garbage, I doubt GW will make them any better. Heck it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the rules in the Agents of the Imperium were copy paste from the digital which in turn would keep the sisters in their doodoo tier of armies. New models are the only thing we have to look forwards to because GW have been notoriously bad at writing good rules for the sisters...

Here is a flip trough of December WD

 Capamaru wrote:
So this might actually contain formations for GK.

Or just Grey Knight Terminators and that is it. That is all they mentioned so to specifically mention just Termiantors, I think that is what will be in it. Rest you will need the Grey Knight Codex.

Intersting. At the very end of the video there is a page about codex:CSM and that you will need it to play with Magnus and freinds.

 Roknar wrote:
Intersting. At the very end of the video there is a page about codex:CSM and that you will need it to play with Magnus and freinds.

Of course you do, they're not going to copy paste all the tanks and stuff.

 MadCowCrazy wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

Well, to be fair, Sisters have had one or two updates in that time.

"to be fair"? How about unfair, the rules in the 3E Witch Hunter codex are arguably better than in the WD and Digital. WD made the army allot worse, Digital made it even worse still. Faith system which is the one thing that makes Sisters unique borders on useless for most units... Canoness, your army HQ, gets Hatred for one phase because close combat is exactly where you want to be with your WS3 S3 T3 I3 1A army. Celestian command squed, the most veteran of veteran sisters get Move Through Cover for one phase... wow... really?

Witch Hunter codex rules with points costs from the digital would create a much better codex. For the love of the Emperor why does an Eviscerator cost 30pts?! A SM pays the same for a chainfist (which an Eviscerator is) but theirs is S8 Ap2 whilst the sisters is S6 Ap2. A Repentia model costs 15pts and comes with one!

The WD and Digital Sororitas Codexes are complete garbage, I doubt GW will make them any better. Heck it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the rules in the Agents of the Imperium were copy paste from the digital which in turn would keep the sisters in their doodoo tier of armies. New models are the only thing we have to look forwards to because GW have been notoriously bad at writing good rules for the sisters...

Here is a flip trough of December WD

So I don't know much about the Witch Hunter codex other than the fact that I hate the idea of it and don't want to pretend half my book doesn't exist because I want to play my army as being Sisters of Battle. BUT, I can tell you that having both the 5th and 6th Codexes, the 6th is infinitely better.

Sure 6th is largely overcosted, takes away the older faith system(which ultimately wasn't super fantastic anyway, especially in larger games) and drops some options but at least what was left had SOME teeth. Dominions are still great, Immolators are way better than razorbacks and can, yunno, fit battle sisters in them, they might not be as good as when they were fast but they're still perfectly fine. Exorcists are solid, battle sisters themselves aren't terrible and overall the 6th ed book just works better than the 5th did. Is it a great codex? No, but it's on the same tier level as CSM, DE, Orks, and Nids. Admittedly each of those got a single really broken thing in them (Flyrants, Heldrakes, Corpse Thief Claw, incredibly monobuild Decurion) that sisters didn't get an equivalent of but considering Sisters are still the only faction in the game that has only CAD+Allies available to them, they do okay. Hell, play Oldhammer and they do just fine against not-eldar and not-C:SM.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Nah your lit above is probably right, unless the Sisters of Silence just get rolled in with the telepathica as a faction.

I think they will just put the Inquisition Codex in the new book, and update and/or remove things, like Chimera fire points (my Jokaero kill team, nooo) and getting rid of psybolt ammo.

Edit: if they do Knights in there, maybe it will be a Freeblade that can be mixed and matched like the Chaos Knights?

If they roll Sisters of Silence in with the telepathica, perhaps they'll go for the return of the Planetary Defense Force rules?

ERJAK wrote:
So I don't know much about the Witch Hunter codex other than the fact that I hate the idea of it and don't want to pretend half my book doesn't exist because I want to play my army as being Sisters of Battle. BUT, I can tell you that having both the 5th and 6th Codexes, the 6th is infinitely better.

Sure 6th is largely overcosted, takes away the older faith system(which ultimately wasn't super fantastic anyway, especially in larger games) and drops some options but at least what was left had SOME teeth. Dominions are still great, Immolators are way better than razorbacks and can, yunno, fit battle sisters in them, they might not be as good as when they were fast but they're still perfectly fine. Exorcists are solid, battle sisters themselves aren't terrible and overall the 6th ed book just works better than the 5th did. Is it a great codex? No, but it's on the same tier level as CSM, DE, Orks, and Nids. Admittedly each of those got a single really broken thing in them (Flyrants, Heldrakes, Corpse Thief Claw, incredibly monobuild Decurion) that sisters didn't get an equivalent of but considering Sisters are still the only faction in the game that has only CAD+Allies available to them, they do okay. Hell, play Oldhammer and they do just fine against not-eldar and not-C:SM.

Inquisitorial part of the codex was really small and limited, it was there for you to create a very fluffy army and it did the job pretty well. Units in brackets are just suggestions from the developers on how you could model your units or what units to use to represent them.

Here is what was in the Witch Hunter Codex:
Inquisition
HQ - Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor Lord: 3-12 units of Henchmen for a Lord, 0-6 for an Inquisitor
Inquisitorial Henchmen: Acolyte, Sage (Sister Dialogous), Warrior (Veteran Guardsman/Combat Servitor/Gun Servitor/Crusader, Familiar (Cherubim/Servo-Skull/Psyber-Eagle), Penitent (psyker), Chirurgeon (Torturer/Excoriator/Sister Hospitaller)
Troop - Inquisitorial Storm Troopers
Elite - Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor
Transport - Land Raider

Officio Assassinorum Operative
Culexus, Callidus, Eversor and Vindicare

Adepta Sororitas
HQ - Adepta Sororitas Heroine: Canoness and Palatine (Canoness cost 10pts more and had +1A and +1Ld)
Non HQ - 0-5 Priests
Troop - Battle Sisters Squad
Elite - Arco-flagellants
Elite - Celestian Squad
Elite - 0-1 Sister Repentia
Elite - Death-Cult Assassins <- Inq unit?
Transport - Chimera
Transport - Rhino
FA - Seraphim
FA - Dominion Squad
HS - Retributor
HS - Immolator
HS - Exorcist
HS - Penitent Engine
HS - 0-1 Orbital Strike (Yes, you had to buy orbital strikes as heavy support)

Special Characters
Inquisitor Lord Karamazov
Saint Celestine

Codex also contained rules for adversaries of the sisters.
HQ - 0-1 Rogue Psyker
HQ - 0-1 Apostate Cardinal
Troop - Mutants (Guardsmen with T4 and 2A)
Troop - Traitors (Basically guardsmen)

What made the WH codex so much better than what we have now were the Acts of Faith, the system was far superior to the WD (basically 1FP per Faithful unit and you gained +1 for every Faithful unit destroyed). What you need to remember is that ANY Adepta Sororitas model could use these Acts of Faith. What they did in the WD and Digital was basically hand out the Acts of Faiths to different units. This in turn results in some units having an Act of Faith that is either completely useless or doesn't even work (Dominions with flamers...).

Hand of the Emperor - Either players Assault phase
+2S but strike at I1

Divine Guidance - Either players Assault phase/own Shooting phase - Do test after having rolled your to hit
Rolls to wound on 6s count as Ap1

The Passion - Either players Assault phase
+2I, does not affect weapons that reduce you to I1

Light of the Emperor - Own Movement Phase
Fearless until next movement phase. If falling back the unit regroups and becomes Fearless for the turn.

Spirit of the Marty - Enemy Shooting Phase or either players Assault phase
Unit gains an invulnerable save equal to its normal Armour save


Acts of Faith are suppose to be small miracles that occur on the battlefield, the WH codex represented this allot better than the WD or Digital. I guess they thought these Acts of Faith were too powerful for the current ruleset. +2S or +2I in assault is pretty meh but it does help a little vs Guardmen equivalents. Move Through Cover and Fearless are very situational but could help under those circumstances. "Rending" and Inv save equal to Armour are the good ones that would help sisters allot. If these were the current Acts of Faith with the once per game thing the Sisters would be allot better at pretty much everything, they would still be bad but it would help.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
Intersting. At the very end of the video there is a page about codex:CSM and that you will need it to play with Magnus and freinds.

Of course you do, they're not going to copy paste all the tanks and stuff.

I dunno, that seems a bit unprofessoinal even for GW. Release a new faction, but not give it a codex AND rely on the codex of a different faction to use this new faction in it's entirety?
Plus they've repeatedly shown that they have no qualms about copy pasting units from other sources and even selling them as "new".
So simply requiring codex : CSM to include the odd unit from there seems unlikely to me.

Now if that's not the reason you require codex: CSM, then what do you need it for? They seem to be their own faction, so I'm really curious in which way they would be linked to codex: CSM. You could always be right, but that would be really dissapointing.