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A new Abby model needs to be designed with the option to not have the arms attached. Anything else is heresy of the highest order

Also in the spirit of not having X faction on the cover of the Jan WD.....

Wut da zog Gee Dubya? Were are da bleedin Orkz at ya gitz? Itz bin ulmost 2 yearz senz we had sum proppa Orky stuff and dem chaos boyz had been gettin gak evry utha month. If it aint chaos crazies its them spess mahreen gitz wif der zogging spesshul chapta dakurionz and supa weirdboy mahreen powaz. Im gettin fed up wiff da boyz gettin da short end of da choppa. Zog da empera, zog dem kult mahreens, zog da umies, zog da panzes, and zog dem blue gitz while yer at it.


But seriously though I hope this ever expanding storyline doesn't turn into just a bunch of Chaos vs IoM with all the xenos taking a back seat. That said I am somewhat interested in seeing where things are going with all of this.

While I am not saying that there will be new Sisters, I am wondering why they are being written off fo ...aggressively in this thread.
Because they are not on the cover of White Dwarf?
Thousand Sons were not on the cover either...Blood Bowl was.
January is anyone's guess.

 BloodGrin wrote:
While I am not saying that there will be new Sisters, I am wondering why they are being written off fo ...aggressively in this thread.
Because they are not on the cover of White Dwarf?
Thousand Sons were not on the cover either...Blood Bowl was.
January is anyone's guess.

Intellectually I know that, but ultimately a visceral emotional reaction was what came out of my...fingers I guess? I've had some time to calm down now and while I don't think SoB are coming out in January, it is still a possibility. Chaos is getting new stuff pretty much guaranteed so at least someone is happy. Besides, I've waited 20+ years for plastic SoB what's a few more?

So Sisters will be getting a codex all to themselves and Chaos while a cool looking update is only fraction of what chaos is so far. This is why people take your opinion as more of a wine and cheese fest.

You need to take releases one at a time. Sisters will come. But as for us Chaos players hey it's another book to add to the pile that updates a little bit of chaos at a time, we still don't even have a full update yet.

Will Sisters be getting a Codex all to themselves? It looks like right now they're getting baked into imperial agents. But I digress.

It was wrong of me to try and deny chaos players their time in the spotlight, to be sure, but think back to when you heard about Angels of Death for the first time or any of the other many, many space marine releases and looked over at your codex floundering in the corner and took to the internet and said things you weren't entirely proud of. I know I'm not alone in that knee-jerk reaction, I've seen it, I've seen it from some of the people in this thread before, no one here is a saint.

So let's move forward shall we? For example, traitor legions is coming soon out but with Tsons out already and BL getting at least some love in January, are releases like this going to overwrite the TL rules or are you getting the TL 'chapter tactics' on top of the book rules?

This just in on the comunity site for traitor legions.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/11/28/the-eye-opens-and-the-legions-return/

It doesn't really say anything new but there is this:
"pecial rules with names like “The Butcher’s Nails”, “Many Heads of the Hydra” and “Iron Within, Iron Without” bring the well-loved background of the Heretic Astartes to life, and will be available to any detachment or formation pledged to the appropriate Legion (much like their loyalist brethren have access to Space Marine Chapter Tactics).

In addition, every Legion gets a Warlord Traits table, Chaos Artefacts and a dedicated Detachment of Formations, further rewarding armies that mirror the Legions as they appear in the background."

So every legion is getting their own decurion by the looks. That's more than I was expecing.
I wonder what that means for non TSons legions. I would expect them to copy paste the Wrath of Magnus formations without the daemon only parts. Unless we get all new formations (a man can dream right?)

They better not copy black legion 100% from the supplement though. Just paying for VOTLW and nothing else would make them pretty bad in comparison to other legions I would imagine.

ERJAK wrote:

So let's move forward shall we? For example, traitor legions is coming soon out but with Tsons out already and BL getting at least some love in January, are releases like this going to overwrite the TL rules or are you getting the TL 'chapter tactics' on top of the book rules?

I think that is one of the main issues. I wish all of it was just put in one book for a end all update. What if people don't buy the new books and only have old ones, what rules do they use if they don't have them? How many books is that now? 10 including the Data slates? I am also counting Deamon books since those interweaved. Just feels like it has been partial updates on tpo of partial updates.

I may be missing some:
Chaos Codex
Deamon Codex
Black Legion
Crimson Slaughter
Khorne Deamonkin
Helbrute data slate
Cypher data slate
Belekor data slate
Wrath of Magnus
Traitors Hate

A new Abby mini could be good. GW are 1 from 2 on re-doing the old Chaos Characters, so here's hoping he's more like the new Ahriman than the new Kharn.

 Roknar wrote:

They better not copy black legion 100% from the supplement though. Just paying for VOTLW and nothing else would make them pretty bad in comparison to other legions I would imagine.

Don't ruin this for me, I need at least a week to dream of what might be

(But yeah they're totally doing that for the Black Legion. Black Legion supplement rules + Traitor's Hate Black Crusade detachment, oh well happy for the other Legions at least)

 kronk wrote:

 Roknar wrote:

I'm not sure about rules. The way they set up this black crusade in traitor's hate sounds an awful lot like he's off on an adventure to get some of that power horus and the emperor had. So currently he would be at his normal strength.
On the other hand, with this presumably the final crusade it would make some sense to already give him the rules/model to reflect that state, more so with there not being a primarch for Black Legion and that being the legion responsable for this new push to terra.

Of course these days anything is possible really. Except a new csm codex apparently.

I thought it said that he had already received the blessings of each of the Chaos gods as part or and in between his other 12 Black Crusades, along with permanently destroying obstacles to his ultimate push towards Terra.

Either way, I'm all for a new Abbadon model!

He gets a report from Xorphas while looking at the eye of terror and then: "Now he must go deeper than ever before... 'to grasp the power to win the entire war. That power would be his...".
To me it reads like the 13th crusade came and went in that one battle lol. He just needed that cage open and it will be open eventually, so now he abandons everybody and goes to seek this ominous power.
He has the blessing of all 4 gods, but imho the emperor and horus had more than just that going on. Or I'm deluding myself and it's just because they were super duper humans and this is something else.

Is Marbo an "agent of the imperium"?

Cause I need Marbo back in my life.

 Roknar wrote:
Of course these days anything is possible really. Except a new csm codex apparently.

If this cover does herald a new Abbadon model, then I'm even more convinced that GW are using campaign books and supplement releases to update the CSM range as much as possible before a new codex.

 ziggurattt wrote:
Is Marbo an "agent of the imperium"?

Cause I need Marbo back in my life.

I don't play IG but they really need Marbo back lol, he was just that awesome. Even on the tabletop.
The things that guy did on occasion... pure win lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:

GoatboyBeta wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
Of course these days anything is possible really. Except a new csm codex apparently.

If this cover does herald a new Abbadon model, then I'm even more convinced that GW are using campaign books and supplement releases to update the CSM range as much as possible before a new codex.

I think it's pretty much confirmed if we do indeed get a deathguard campaign book like TSons got. At the very least it's guaranteed that we won't be getting a new codex until the new edition hits, whenever that is.
This model of staggered releases is fine with me, it just sucks that we're stuck with old tech for a long time. I'm sure they would give us kai guns back if with the release of a new codex, but I don't see that happening for any individual legion/warband.
Although maybe...maybe they could release a dark mirror to agents of the imperium with dark mech and stuff. Let's keep the dream alive

GoatboyBeta wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
Of course these days anything is possible really. Except a new csm codex apparently.

If this cover does herald a new Abbadon model, then I'm even more convinced that GW are using campaign books and supplement releases to update the CSM range as much as possible before a new codex.

Make a note: when was the last time any unit got updated rules that wasn't tied in with a new model? Small updates to Tau over a year ago? I believe that they're setting up for a switch to a living codex like they have in AoS. They won't release a new CSM codex when no existing army has gotten an updated codex in over a year (only new codices since then with Deathwatch and GSC, plus supplements). It's pretty obvious imo that they're setting up for dataslates to be on the website and probably an app, and then have the supplements/campaign books have the formations/artifacts/etc.

8th can't come fast enough imo.

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:

 Roknar wrote:

They better not copy black legion 100% from the supplement though. Just paying for VOTLW and nothing else would make them pretty bad in comparison to other legions I would imagine.

Don't ruin this for me, I need at least a week to dream of what might be

(But yeah they're totally doing that for the Black Legion. Black Legion supplement rules + Traitor's Hate Black Crusade detachment, oh well happy for the other Legions at least)

Well, if we get a new model for abbadon, we should get updated rules. Ahriman got a new disc, so here's to drachnyen getting its phase property back. So we might still get ...something^^

 ziggurattt wrote:
Is Marbo an "agent of the imperium"?

Cause I need Marbo back in my life.

He was my favorite then Alrehem.... Man I miss my IG heroes.

Marbo will never return, he died by to much snusnu...

RazorEdge wrote:
Marbo will never return, he died by to much snusnu...

or by his own explosive charge

 Roknar wrote:

 ziggurattt wrote:
Is Marbo an "agent of the imperium"?

Cause I need Marbo back in my life.

I don't play IG but they really need Marbo back lol, he was just that awesome. Even on the tabletop.
The things that guy did on occasion... pure win lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:

GoatboyBeta wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
Of course these days anything is possible really. Except a new csm codex apparently.

If this cover does herald a new Abbadon model, then I'm even more convinced that GW are using campaign books and supplement releases to update the CSM range as much as possible before a new codex.

I think it's pretty much confirmed if we do indeed get a deathguard campaign book like TSons got. At the very least it's guaranteed that we won't be getting a new codex until the new edition hits, whenever that is.
This model of staggered releases is fine with me, it just sucks that we're stuck with old tech for a long time. I'm sure they would give us kai guns back if with the release of a new codex, but I don't see that happening for any individual legion/warband.
Although maybe...maybe they could release a dark mirror to agents of the imperium with dark mech and stuff. Let's keep the dream alive

Since Warhammer Community thankfully posted this today with a good glimpse of what's in the book I can at least say this much. Afaik no new models with this release and Imperial Agents at the moment, though in 2017...woah nelly I'm a Death Guard player in 30K and probably will be in 40K eventually (though sticking with Building a TS army off the Wrath of Magnus release and then once I win the lottery, naturally, a 30K TS legion since Inferno will be out in February.) ...but, back to DG. Can't say anything specific until the review but I'm quite pleased with the DG rules, warlord traits, expanded Nurgle lore, artefacts, 6 specific objective cards and bonuses. But disclaimer: I'm only now with TS release becoming a CSM player for the first time so my expectations and satisfaction with content may be vastly different from anyone's, and I don't care for competitive 40K (especially the past 2 years), but I feel the fluff/theme of the legions is reflected well in the new rules. I'm also an Ork player and while I would love new or even better rules (especially for the Gork/Morkanauts) I fully understand Chaos players are long overdue for some attention and they're rightfully moved to the front of the queue.

To all my fellow sons of Mortarion, Count the Seven!

@Razor'sE... ha, brilliant! Marbo is da man. If The Duncan was a miniature, it would be Marbo

 Roknar wrote:

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:

 Roknar wrote:

They better not copy black legion 100% from the supplement though. Just paying for VOTLW and nothing else would make them pretty bad in comparison to other legions I would imagine.

Don't ruin this for me, I need at least a week to dream of what might be

(But yeah they're totally doing that for the Black Legion. Black Legion supplement rules + Traitor's Hate Black Crusade detachment, oh well happy for the other Legions at least)

Well, if we get a new model for abbadon, we should get updated rules. Ahriman got a new disc, so here's to drachnyen getting its phase property back. So we might still get ...something^^

If they give Abaddon Strength D I would be sooooo happy. (I mean keep the AP3 S8 at Initative Lightning Claw give him the one Destroyer Attack)

I'd love to see multi-part plastic "Dark Vengeance" Chosen as well but I would guess this side of Xmas we might see a release like Kharn.

Any way that we can split off the Traitor Legions to another thread and have one for each book?

 Vash108 wrote:

Spoiler:

ERJAK wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

Anything that isn't Sisters is irrelevant to me. I understand that a lot of people care about chaos or the fluff or w/e but as far as I'm concerned 40k is just a vessel used to release Sisters of battle. Oh well, saves me a few hundred bucks in new Sisters plastics I don't have to buy. Oooh, I can get my 40$ back for the Adepticon 40k Champs too!

So you're literally in a rumour thread for Imperial Agents and Traitor Legions...throwing a fit at the fact it's not Sisters of Battle.

Okaaaay. That's special.

Imperial agents is Sisters of Battle. It is relevant to the conversation. And yeah, I'm a little bitter. Look, you got your new thousands sons, you got your new Abaddon and probably Deathguard coming, new chapter tactics, enjoy it. This is a cool time to be a Chaos player, but it does suck that all the many, many things we've been hearing about new Sisters amount to nothing. Give me my few minutes of bitterness, I think the fact that I still have and have to use models from 2nd Ed allots me that courtesy.

Actually, half the Sisters' range dates from 3rd ed. Half of it was released after the CSM 3.5 release with Codex Witchhunters. Also, the age of your models? Matters not a damn. Did you know the Sisters digital codex is actually NEWER than the CSM codex? Did you know that? Bet that's a surprise to you.

And it's not JUST Sisters of Battle. In fact, most of the rumours are pointing to it not necessarily being a full SoB codex but a collection of a squad or two - perhaps to allow the old Inquisition led 'oddities' similar to the set up of Daemonhunters/Witchhunters in 3rd ed. Of course, it could be a full compilation/reprint as GW are shying away from dataslate and digital only releases so that would make logical sense as well.

And hey, perhaps we're not hearing anything about New Sisters yet because the Imperial Agents book is some 2 weeks away. We didn't start seeing solid Thousand Sons rumours til a week or so before the pre-order so hey, perhaps that's an indicator.

But coming here and declaring your opinion as the only relevant one.

HOO. That's rich.

Knew that about about the codex, but if the models age is irrelevent, than why is the codex age relevant? I also didn't say that my opinion is the only relevant one, I said that it's the only relevant one to me, which is true of anyone, you clearly don't care that I think Sisters is the more interesting release so why should you care if I think Chaos stuff is boring?

You like Chaos and are excited about the new model, awesome, enjoy it. I wanted Sisters and am probably not getting any, sucks, but after a little bit of venting I'm over it. You go focus on how cool the new Abaddon sculpt is gonna be especially after Ahriman came out and I'll go back to lamenting in a corner like I was before. We never need to interact again if you don't want to.

So Sisters will be getting a codex all to themselves and Chaos while a cool looking update is only fraction of what chaos is so far. This is why people take your opinion as more of a wine and cheese fest.

You need to take releases one at a time. Sisters will come. But as for us Chaos players hey it's another book to add to the pile that updates a little bit of chaos at a time, we still don't even have a full update yet.

Now you know why I have issues with taking Sisters players seriously.

Kanluwen wrote:Everything about this book, in terms of the way it has been getting previewed/showcased, suggests a book that is intended to provide Allied formations/Detachments rather than playable armies.

Formation Detatchment (aka Decurion) or even playable formations is something really GK need at the moment. I am looking forward that this is exactly what Imperial Agents will deliver.

GK creep around with 2 Formations that require specific units instead of that modern "built your own"-style like "2-5 of unit X" and "0-3 of unit Y". And they're both far beyond 2000 points - without equipment. So literally not existent, because unplayable...

Pyrosphere wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Everything about this book, in terms of the way it has been getting previewed/showcased, suggests a book that is intended to provide Allied formations/Detachments rather than playable armies.

Formation Detatchment (aka Decurion) or even playable formations is something really GK need at the moment. I am looking forward that this is exactly what Imperial Agents will deliver.

GK creep around with 2 Formations that require specific units instead of that modern "built your own"-style like "2-5 of unit X" and "0-3 of unit Y". And they're both far beyond 2000 points - without equipment. So literally not existent, because unplayable...

Formations are really all that matter in the game right now. A formation is much better than an allied Detachment in nearly every case.

I have the same lost hope I have for Traitor Legions that I had for Traitor's Hate: make the Khorne aspects usable in KDK. It's annoying as hell to work in any allies into a KDK army as it is, and nothing in the TH book helped. I'm really hoping World Eaters will have a small little box in their section stating the legion rules for them can be used in KDK formations and detachments, at least for the marines in KDK since they are so underwhelming compared to their deamon counterparts.

What I'm hoping for is that the Black legion gets a new update in the Traitor legions supplement and the existing Black Legion supplement is invalidated, so people don't need 2 books for black legion. Also hope wrath of magnus is copy pasted into the traitor legions as well

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Now you know why I have issues with taking Sisters players seriously.

I'm sorry is this coming from people that whine about having too much new stuff to play with?

 Vash108 wrote:
I may be missing some:
Chaos Codex
Deamon Codex
Black Legion
Crimson Slaughter
Khorne Deamonkin
Helbrute data slate
Cypher data slate
Belekor data slate
Wrath of Magnus
Traitors Hate

Having so many new cool stuff that you can't even track it all seems to make you so miserable .

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Now you know why I have issues with taking Sisters players seriously.

I'm sorry is this coming from people that whine about having too much new stuff to play with?

 Vash108 wrote:
I may be missing some:
Chaos Codex
Deamon Codex
Black Legion
Crimson Slaughter
Khorne Deamonkin
Helbrute data slate
Cypher data slate
Belekor data slate
Wrath of Magnus
Traitors Hate

Having so many new cool stuff that you can't even track it all seems to make you so miserable .

90% of the "new cool stuff" is not great. Wrath of Magnus is good, KDK is kind of good to ok, Traitors Hate is just ok. You must not play CSM to not realize how middling all these updates to a lackluster/bad codex are. Wrath of Magnus pretty much says "feth the CSM Codex" and replaces a lot of the nonsense with themed gak that works. The hope of every CSM player is that Traitor Legions does that for every other themed CSM army, making the codex actually fun instead of "take as much of X as you can or you will lose badly".

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Now you know why I have issues with taking Sisters players seriously.

I'm sorry is this coming from people that whine about having too much new stuff to play with?

 Vash108 wrote:
I may be missing some:
Chaos Codex
Deamon Codex
Black Legion
Crimson Slaughter
Khorne Deamonkin
Helbrute data slate
Cypher data slate
Belekor data slate
Wrath of Magnus
Traitors Hate

Having so many new cool stuff that you can't even track it all seems to make you so miserable .

So much cool stuff?

No, no no. If every single one of those was 'viable' and balanced then yeah, CSM would be bloated.

But it's more like in order to be viable and on par with an army chosen from a single Codex (Space Marines, Eldar, Tau, Space Wolves) we need - the core codex, one formation from Black Legion, Crimson Slaughter and KDK, one formation from the dataslates, Be'lakor, the disciplines from Traitors Hate, IA 13 for like, two units. And that's just to be 'on par' with baseline Codex armies. That's 8 books before we even consider allies.

And the real sting? The army will involve virtually NO Chaos Space Marines whatsoever. It's literally an army with some dinobots, some psykers, cultists and daemons.

 andysonic1 wrote:
You must not play CSM to not realize how middling all these updates to a lackluster/bad codex are.

You must not play Sister if the news of more plastic models and units rules makes you unhappy.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:
But it's more like in order to be viable and on par with an army chosen from a single Codex (Space Marines, Eldar, Tau, Space Wolves) we need - the core codex, one formation from Black Legion, Crimson Slaughter and KDK, one formation from the dataslates, Be'lakor, the disciplines from Traitors Hate, IA 13 for like, two units. And that's just to be 'on par' with baseline Codex armies. That's 8 books before we even consider allies.

How to beat Sisters with CSM:
- 1: Take Helldrakes.
- 2: ???
- 3: You have a model that is basically unkillable and that will literally kill every infantry it can fit behind his torrent flamer on a potentially rerollable 2+. Did I mention it Instant Death all our characters?
It only takes the basic CSM codex for this.

How to beat Sisters with CSM after Sisters get their upgrade:
- 1: Hell has frozen over.
- 2: ???
- 3: We all died of old age.