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Firstly our new benefits from Traitor Legions:

Chosen are Troops

Chosen, Chaos Space Marines and Cultists get Infiltrate.

When the warlord dies, pick a new warlord and role a new trait. This trolling can continue until you have no more characters (basically your opponent will have to kill 100% of your army to receive Slay The Warlord; completely invalidating this VP IMO).

VoTLW for free.

Our Drawbacks:

No Marks (I assume this also means no Cult Units (Rubics, Plagues and the like)

No Unique Characters at all. (Big woop, who needs them anyway )

Relics:

The Mindveil: At the start of your movement move 3D6 immediately, this can take you from combat & enemy cannot consolidate;

Blade of Hydra: An AP5 melee weapon that Rends, and has Daemon Weapon. It's unique gimmick is the Multi-headed special rule every roll of 6 to hit generate another attack and extra attacks DO generate yet more attacks.

Viper’s Bite: A bolter with S5 AP2.

The Drakescale Plate: Warpsteel armour that gives a 2++ vs. flamer weapons

Hydra’s Teeth: Another special bolter, this one has blast, ignore cover and poison (2+).

Icon of Insurrection: Friendly Cultists within 12” gain zealot.


This IMO is all very nice and fluffy; so well done GW.

Firstly almost all our infantry can infiltrate. This has MASSIVE power. Infiltrate 20 CSM onto a central objective, screens of 30 cultists as distractions and small units of 5 Plasma Guns assassinating key targets are just some of the application I can think of off the top of my head.

Chosen as Troops really feeds into this playstyle of dominating the early game. They bring big firepower where and when you need it.

The rest of it is just icing on the cake for me, mass infiltrate is just insanely awesome

I kinda want to see Trazyn versus Alpha Legion. Warlord Trolls!

The Icon of Insurrection will be pretty damn useful-Fearless Hatred Cultists are no joke.

While you're right that the basic squad can Infiltrate, PLEASE don't make the squad 20 dudes. It won't do you any good.

However, who cares about them when the Chosen exist. They become troops like in Black Legion, but you get Infiltrate instead of Hatred against everyone. The former is so much better, and this would be an excellent way to spam special weapons while keeping Cultists as meat shields for them.

Also keep in mind we have a unique character kinda from FW. That would require an FAQ though, but the character himself isn't bad for the points.

That does lead into the next point of how awesome the Warlord thing is. If you have just enough characters, it could be frustrating for your opponent if they need that last VP and can't get it

My initial reaction is, that Alpha legion will make a great objective secure, MSU army.

*Grabs "The Instrument"*
If any of those "Meta" Player comes near Alpha Legion, Ill Blow their Heads off!

Anyway, the Relics and Rules Seem really good, Especially Chosen as Troops+They Can Infiltrate, Reminds me of my 30k Alpha Legion...

Plus its sad with the "No Unique Characters" rule
I wanted to use the IA:SoV Alpha Legion Guy... (He has T5, a S+2 Power Sword with Rending AND gives Counter Attack to his Unit!)
Arkos the Faithless i believe his name is...

There would be an FAQ I imagine. His WarLord Trait was pretty cool if I remember correctly.

Shame they didn't port Arkos the Faithless' rules into AL, but otherwise I don't think anyone will be complaining. A fluffy set of units and special rules, decent restrictions that don't hinder the army, and a selection of relics that pretty much all have their uses (And some of which are actually epic) and that's a lot more than can be said for some armies relics.

I think any competitive CSM player would have to be mad not to take at least a small detachment of AL.

 TheManWithNoPlan wrote:
Shame they didn't port Arkos the Faithless' rules into AL, but otherwise I don't think anyone will be complaining. A fluffy set of units and special rules, decent restrictions that don't hinder the army, and a selection of relics that pretty much all have their uses (And some of which are actually epic) and that's a lot more than can be said for some armies relics.

I think any competitive CSM player would have to be mad not to take at least a small detachment of AL.

Of course they didn't because it is Forge World. For the same reason you didn't hear anything about Zhufor and Necrosis.

Sorcerer Cabal
Punchy Chaos Lord
Bike unit
2x 5 Chosen w/ Plasma in Rhino
2x 5 Chosen w/ Melta in Rhino
30 Cultists with the Fearless Relic
Season with Havocs/Oblits to taste

Infiltrate the Cultists to screen, Chosen to assassinate high value targets with Rhino's to let them get around/shield them from small arms fire.
Cabal + Bikes + Lord to deal with light/medium assault threats and take over dangerous shooting units.

Profit?

I don't even play a CSM army, but the idea of cultist infiltrating is awesome!

Imagine multiple different blobs, I don't care if it is competitive, it seems so cool!

and AL cultists look awesome so thats good too.

 gummyofallbears wrote:
I don't even play a CSM army, but the idea of cultist infiltrating is awesome!

Imagine multiple different blobs, I don't care if it is competitive, it seems so cool!

and AL cultists look awesome so thats good too.

My thoughts exactly.

Pointed out in some other threads. As part of the AL decurion you can take Lost and the damned formation as a aux choice which lets them return on 4+ (if I remember correctly) to ongoing reserves. The decurion bonus ALSO lets them do the same thing but is a different rule.

So it LOOKS like decurion cultists can come back on a rerollable 4+

Either a rerollable, or two separate triggers of the instance. Potentially getting 2 squads for every one that dies.

It's vague.

On another amusing note, remember the Helcult? That dataslate of "one Helbrute and 2 Cultist units?" The one where the Cultists lose ObSec but get Fearless, which becomes Zealot if the Helbrute is destroyed?

Those Cultists can now Infiltrate.

Can you say roadblock?

So between infiltrating cultists, cultists that never really go away, and fearless/zealot cultists, you have a plethora of ways to stall your opponent out with blobs. What else can you do?

 gnome_idea_what wrote:
So between infiltrating cultists, cultists that never really go away, and fearless/zealot cultists, you have a plethora of ways to stall your opponent out with blobs. What else can you do?

Well, you've got the chosen troops that can infiltrate in and waste targets with tons of special weapons. Also with the warlord trick you can be really aggressive with HQ choices since them dying doesn't give up points in most situations.

Speaking of which, the codex is really confusingly written. Can you bring 4 special weapons or 5? It's written as 4 can take a list of weapons including weapons like melta/plasma, but then you have another slot that says one guy can exchange his bolter for a melta, plasma, heavy weapon, etc.

It sounds like you have the option to bring 5 weapons total, with one being a heavy weapon, but I couldn't really tell.

So I guess you use cultists to get in the way and generally cause havoc as chosen and chaos marines move up behind as fire support to take out isolated targets and generally pitch in fire as needed.

I'm not super familiar with the chaos codex, I just had a small alpha legion painting project I was working on and now I actually have a reason to use them, so I'm learning all this as I go.

It's 5 models total that can bring it. The way it's written, since it's "up to 4 models" for the Special, and "one Chosen" for the Special/Heavy.

This means up to 5 Specials or 4 Specials and 1 Heavy. The way it's also written, the Chosen Champion can take a Special (which can always be cute with either shooting Chaos Boon, but that's more fluff than something to plan around).

 Ir0njack wrote:
Pointed out in some other threads. As part of the AL decurion you can take Lost and the damned formation as a aux choice which lets them return on 4+ (if I remember correctly) to ongoing reserves. The decurion bonus ALSO lets them do the same thing but is a different rule.

So it LOOKS like decurion cultists can come back on a rerollable 4+

They are actually 2 separate rules. Cult Uprising creates a cultist unit that is part of the ALIF (Alpha Legion Insurgency Force). Tide of Traitors creates a cultist unit that Outflanks and is part of the LatD (which also makes them part of the ALIF since the LatD is part of the ALIF). Note that Cult Uprising units also Outflank because they have Infiltrate due to Forward Operatives, but they don't actually get that from Cult Uprising.

Contrast this with the Blood Angels Red Thirst which appears in both the Angel's Blade and Battle Demi-company. Here it's the same rule with the same name in both places. Also note that the Red Thirst in Angel's Blade actually does something since it confers to the other formations in the detachment. If Cult Uprising were just Tide of Traitors repeated it would do literally nothing since there's no way to include cultists in the ALIF except through LatD.

So basically Cult Uprising gives your LatD units a chance to spawn up to 2 units when they die. You need to keep track of which rule spawned which unit though because units spawned from Cult Uprising are not part of the LatD and therefore only get a Cult Uprising roll when they die, with no 2nd roll for Tide of Traitors.

One annoying thing i noticed with the DA from the LaTD formation is he can't ever actually infiltrate with the bloody cultists!

 Latro_ wrote:
One annoying thing i noticed with the DA from the LaTD formation is he can't ever actually infiltrate with the bloody cultists!

On the other hand he's better off in your bike/spawn star together with lord with mindfuk relic.

Do these rules allow Havocs to infiltrate? Because Havocs can take 4 special in addition to heavy.

I'm imagining that Alpha Legion could also do a credible Bike army too. The protection versus Slay the Warlord goes hand-in-hand with MSU builds, and by combining a Warband and CAD, you can have up to 5 Obsec Bike units with turn 1 Shrouded, alongside multiple units of Infiltrating Obsec Chosen...the only thing would be the generic Marine tax.

Or maybe Night Lords could do it better. Either way, fast Chaos is more possible than it has ever been.

I've played the warband + lotd AL. Was a small 1k pt game but still managed to fit everything in. Double respawning cultists are quite good. Oh, and i got the cult leader warlord trait - furious charge and 6+++ for cultists within 12" of the warlord. So, yeah.

Unfortunately, the full infiltrate didn't work out as good as i thought it would cause it was basically a +6" deployment for just marines and cultists. It's gona work great as a cultist star though. The one with sorcabal for invis and 1-st turn charge, Kharn and now the mindveil apostle to spice things up.

I'm still gona add the AL latd to world eater's warband with 2d6 movement. Though cultists only get one respawn in Lotd, they still have infiltrate to screen up the advancing eaters against counter-charges and the mindveil relic could be great for a mini kharn-star. Will see tomorrow.

 koooaei wrote:
I've played the warband + lotd AL. Was a small 1k pt game but still managed to fit everything in. Double respawning cultists are quite good. Oh, and i got the cult leader warlord trait - furious charge and 6+++ for cultists within 12" of the warlord. So, yeah.

Unfortunately, the full infiltrate didn't work out as good as i thought it would cause it was basically a +6" deployment for just marines and cultists. It's gona work great as a cultist star though. The one with sorcabal for invis and 1-st turn charge, Kharn and now the mindveil apostle to spice things up.

I'm still gona add the AL latd to world eater's warband with 2d6 movement. Though cultists only get one respawn in Lotd, they still have infiltrate to screen up the advancing eaters against counter-charges and the mindveil relic could be great for a mini kharn-star. Will see tomorrow.

That seems kind of pointless to be honest. You will only end up infiltrating 6" ahead as you said earlier (18" away form enemies and all) and that's the front of the units meaning your tail could extend beyond the 1" base size, that basically log jams the free 2d6 move from the berzerkers to at best 5" after you account for the cultists base as I said, that's if they are one think row. That will be an easy screen to charge through or just shoot past. Cultists are not that cheap not with an apostle forced on you to boot, not when every point in that WE detachment is so important. I also feel the mindveil is being misused in a WE detachment, if your in assault your happy, not many scenarios in 7th you will use that as a WE. Your gona want to hide in assault which will already be an issue since you'll probably kill what ever you engage in a turn. Granted you can recharge but anything that survived two rounds is probably something you won't want to recharge.

Something that caught my attention when looking at our armour relic, are there even any AP2 flame weapons (as defined by the rulebook) in the game?

The only thing I can think of is the SM warlord trait giving Rending to a squad with a flamer in it.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
I'm imagining that Alpha Legion could also do a credible Bike army too. The protection versus Slay the Warlord goes hand-in-hand with MSU builds, and by combining a Warband and CAD, you can have up to 5 Obsec Bike units with turn 1 Shrouded, alongside multiple units of Infiltrating Obsec Chosen...the only thing would be the generic Marine tax.

Or maybe Night Lords could do it better. Either way, fast Chaos is more possible than it has ever been.

That has been the staying power of the codex since it came out, great FA choices mixed with lackluster HS, Elites, and decent HQ and Troops

 Perth wrote:
Something that caught my attention when looking at our armour relic, are there even any AP2 flame weapons (as defined by the rulebook) in the game?

The only thing I can think of is the SM warlord trait giving Rending to a squad with a flamer in it.

Necrons have the Gauntlet of the Conflagrator.

 MagicJuggler wrote:

 Perth wrote:
Something that caught my attention when looking at our armour relic, are there even any AP2 flame weapons (as defined by the rulebook) in the game?

The only thing I can think of is the SM warlord trait giving Rending to a squad with a flamer in it.

Necrons have the Gauntlet of the Conflagrator.

Which is not a flamer. None of the flamer weapons have sufficient Ap to matter. Only really wierd cases could even trigger it.

So can Typhus turn Cultists into zombies that are outside his detachment? The zombies would be able to Infiltrate without needing a tax from Huron or Ahriman.

Hi all, not quite tactics, but can someone with the book say what the fluff/modelling of the mindveil is supposed to be? It looks like a great relic to create a sneaky, maneuverable leader rather than just a beatstick. I'm already looking to model a lord with it. Thanks very much for any light on this