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I thought csm princes came stock with power armor.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Alright, here's my first go at Alpha Legion + Death Guard. After doing some testing I will be doing Alpha Legion + Codex: Gorepack and see if it yields different results. Anyways...

Detachment: Alpha Legion CAD
x1 Lord
. Power Fist, Lightning Claw, Sigil, Bike, Mindveil

x7 Chosen
. 3 Plasma Guns, Rhino
x7 Chosen
. 3 Plasma Guns, Rhino
x7 Chosen
. 3 Plasma Guns, Rhino
x15 Cultists
x15 Cultists

Detachment: Death Guard CAD
x1 Lord
. Power Fist, Lightning Claw, Sigil, Bike, Mark Of Nurgle, Blight Grenades

x5 Plague Marines
. 2 Melta Guns, Combi-Melta, Rhino
x5 Plague Marines
. 2 Melta Guns, Combi-Melta, Rhino

x5 Bikers
. 2 Melta Guns, Combi-Melta, Melta Bombs, Mark Of Nurgle
x5 Bikers
. 2 Melta Guns, Combi-Melta, Melta Bombs, Mark Of Nurgle

My general plan would be to Infiltrate the Cultists further than the Chosen, as they're something I don't plan to have at all by T2. At that point, Nurgle will have made his way down there, and both Lords will be in their own unit together, and with Mindveil I can guarantee they're charging every turn for the most part.

My issue? I have 27 points left. I have a couple of options:
1. Borrow Flamer Cultists as everyone has them but doesn't use them.
2. Add a Flamer to each Chosen Squad as a deterrent to charges on top of potentially nasty Overwatch.
3. Give the Plague Marines Plasma Guns instead, as how much Melta could I possibly need?
My other issue is my lack of Heavy Support in terms of range. There's potentially nothing in my backfield. I'm unsure how comfortable I am with that as I've always had some sorta camping unit.

The other option I could see here is to to treat both the cultists and chosen as expendable. In that case you could add another plasma and remove 2 guys and the rhino, adding 56 points per chosen unit. Though going second could loose you the game, so probably not a good idea competitively. Still, stripping one unit is still 83 points to spend. That's enough for one rapier of your choice that could sit on a back objective.

BTW I just read this on 1d4chan's article but... what is warpsteel armor? It is mentioned in various relics but... did they give them at last artificer armor equivalent to CSM??

 koooaei wrote:
I thought csm princes came stock with power armor.

tutuut, you been cheating for years ? XD

I haven't been fielding DP for years

Hmm, correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Kharybdis have pseudo ObSec? It can ram and if you run into non vehicle units when ramming, you perfrom a tank shock.
Now given the size of a kharybdis, couldn't you tankshock onto an objective and just sit on it? Due it's size and enemy units needing to stay 1 inch away from it, they would no longer be within 3 inch of an objective?

It wouldn't work all the time, but still.

 commander dante wrote:
I was thinking of Combining the Warpsmith+Mutilator/Obliterator formation with the "Mindveil" Relic

As the Special Formation Ability grants Mutilators to attack with 2 different weapons in a turn and allows the Mutilators to Attack with I4 Chainfists (as the Rule States, Resolve the First set of attacks (Pick Power Swords for this) and then Immediately Resolve the Second set of attacks (Pick Power Fists/Chainfists for this one))

So Mutilators that Charge your units, Deal HEAVY Damage, Disengage and Charge the Same Unit, Or a Different one, EVERY TURN

(Unless the Warpsmith Cannot join Mutilators)

That is what my list is looking like but the cult of destruction is running as DG for the +1T and fnp. Basic list is a DG CAD with Typhus, marines and some rapiers. A DG cult of destruction with a 3 mutie squad, an oblit and an oblit. An AL insurgency force with the lost and the damned (9 min units of cultists) as the aux. The dark apostle takes the Mindveil and joins the unit of muties with the warpsmith and Typhus. Move the unit 3d6 around the board and auto erase whatever unit it touches. The 90 zombies slowly take objectives up the board and if any unit of them dies, they return infiltrating on a 4+, two return on two 4+.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Alright, here's my first go at Alpha Legion + Death Guard. After doing some testing I will be doing Alpha Legion + Codex: Gorepack and see if it yields different results. Anyways...

Detachment: Alpha Legion CAD
x1 Lord
. Power Fist, Lightning Claw, Sigil, Bike, Mindveil

x7 Chosen
. 3 Plasma Guns, Rhino
x7 Chosen
. 3 Plasma Guns, Rhino
x7 Chosen
. 3 Plasma Guns, Rhino
x15 Cultists
x15 Cultists

Detachment: Death Guard CAD
x1 Lord
. Power Fist, Lightning Claw, Sigil, Bike, Mark Of Nurgle, Blight Grenades

x5 Plague Marines
. 2 Melta Guns, Combi-Melta, Rhino
x5 Plague Marines
. 2 Melta Guns, Combi-Melta, Rhino

x5 Bikers
. 2 Melta Guns, Combi-Melta, Melta Bombs, Mark Of Nurgle
x5 Bikers
. 2 Melta Guns, Combi-Melta, Melta Bombs, Mark Of Nurgle

My general plan would be to Infiltrate the Cultists further than the Chosen, as they're something I don't plan to have at all by T2. At that point, Nurgle will have made his way down there, and both Lords will be in their own unit together, and with Mindveil I can guarantee they're charging every turn for the most part.

My issue? I have 27 points left. I have a couple of options:
1. Borrow Flamer Cultists as everyone has them but doesn't use them.
2. Add a Flamer to each Chosen Squad as a deterrent to charges on top of potentially nasty Overwatch.
3. Give the Plague Marines Plasma Guns instead, as how much Melta could I possibly need?
My other issue is my lack of Heavy Support in terms of range. There's potentially nothing in my backfield. I'm unsure how comfortable I am with that as I've always had some sorta camping unit.

The chosen units are bad. I mean, your paying for 3 plasma guns on a unit in a transport with 2 fire points, so it's safe to assume your hopping out. Top that off with purchasing 2 extra guys for some odd reason and you have a very expensive unit with mediocre damage output. 206 points for a few plamsa guns on none fearless marines? Why even bother with the AL detachment, you chose a CAD. Infiltrate is not that amazing, in 9 out of 10 games it gets you 6" further from your deployment zone. You bought rhinos, so that isn't a very big boon as you have mobility. You could just take a chaos warband from the deathguard detachment and you would be way better off since the chosen would still have obsec but be much more durable and have relentless.

I mean for example lets ignore the horrible loadout on the chosen and just crunch numbers like for like.

7 AL chosen with 3 plasma guns in a rhino comes to 206 pts

compared to 6 death guard chosen with the exact same gear with comes to....

Spoiler:

206pts

Those are the harshest words I've gotten on this forum from a first draft list! And I thank you for it!

I do think Infiltrate is amazing, and it got even better thanks to Servo Skulls being removed from the Inquisitor update. Being able to throw the Chosen up in the front with screening Cultists seems like a good plan, but you're probably right on the loadouts.
They just don't do anything special in any detachment outside having more attacks and being able to spam weapons.

Are you recommending I lose a Plasma Gun? The third one is used for drop offs and bad positioning on my end so that I still have two in a squad. If that's the case I could probably lose another Chosen too.
Or I could just lose the Rhino and go all Melta. I dunno.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

 commander dante wrote:
I was thinking of Combining the Warpsmith+Mutilator/Obliterator formation with the "Mindveil" Relic

As the Special Formation Ability grants Mutilators to attack with 2 different weapons in a turn and allows the Mutilators to Attack with I4 Chainfists (as the Rule States, Resolve the First set of attacks (Pick Power Swords for this) and then Immediately Resolve the Second set of attacks (Pick Power Fists/Chainfists for this one))

So Mutilators that Charge your units, Deal HEAVY Damage, Disengage and Charge the Same Unit, Or a Different one, EVERY TURN

(Unless the Warpsmith Cannot join Mutilators)

That is what my list is looking like but the cult of destruction is running as DG for the +1T and fnp. Basic list is a DG CAD with Typhus, marines and some rapiers. A DG cult of destruction with a 3 mutie squad, an oblit and an oblit. An AL insurgency force with the lost and the damned (9 min units of cultists) as the aux. The dark apostle takes the Mindveil and joins the unit of muties with the warpsmith and Typhus. Move the unit 3d6 around the board and auto erase whatever unit it touches. The 90 zombies slowly take objectives up the board and if any unit of them dies, they return infiltrating on a 4+, two return on two 4+.

You can ally the Alpha Legion in and join whatever you want into the unit.
Using an Allied Detachment you could get a cheap unit of Infiltrating Cultists as a distraction and get a Sorcerer on a Bike and add the Mindveil and roll on whatever table you feel right.

The Mindveil Oblitstar does sound very entertaining though, since it's basically Hit and Run, but better in most every way.

No Initiative check. You don't have to move the full distance, unlike H&R, and you can change direction. The no-consolidate on top of all of that is just beautiful as you can now make use of Flame weapons with even more brutality than beforehand.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

That's why I had my question posted in the thread that never got answered as to whether Typhus can turn them into his Zombies. There would be no upgrades after all, and they could Infiltrate without me having to pay the Ahriman/Huron tax.

Typhus can't because they are different detachment, but the relic doesn't say that it's necessary.

Neither does Typhus's rule. It says "any Chaos Cultists in the same army as Typhus can be nominated as Plague Zombies." His CSM rules were written pre detatchment stuff, and as far as I know, haven't been updated since the codex. Typhus can indeed change the cultists into zombies.

Yeah, I realized my error afterward. Thanks for clearing that up.

However, it did bring up another question. If they become zombies, are they still cultists? Meaning, the AL rules say that cultists gain infiltrate, but they are zombies so they may not get it.

So how are people interpretating using Lost and the Damned with the Alpha Legion Cult Uprising rule? Can you potentially get two units for each destroyed? Two separate rules doing the same thing,

Claas wrote:
So how are people interpretating using Lost and the Damned with the Alpha Legion Cult Uprising rule? Can you potentially get two units for each destroyed? Two separate rules doing the same thing,

That's how I see it.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
The Mindveil Oblitstar does sound very entertaining though, since it's basically Hit and Run, but better in most every way.

No Initiative check. You don't have to move the full distance, unlike H&R, and you can change direction. The no-consolidate on top of all of that is just beautiful as you can now make use of Flame weapons with even more brutality than beforehand.

Haha I'm thinking of a super-friends-esque Deathstar for CSM. 1k Sons for the Astral Grimoire, Alpha Legion for the Mindveil, World Eaters for the Talisman of Burning Blood.

There's a unit that moves 15" per turn (12" from Astral, +3" from the Talisman), and can move out of combat if they get locked in to charge again. Enjoy having the fastest combat Deathstar in the game that can't be tarpitted. Granted it takes all 3 of your detachment slots in ITC, but some may consider that worthwhile.

NamelessBard wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

That's why I had my question posted in the thread that never got answered as to whether Typhus can turn them into his Zombies. There would be no upgrades after all, and they could Infiltrate without me having to pay the Ahriman/Huron tax.

Typhus can't because they are different detachment, but the relic doesn't say that it's necessary.

Neither does Typhus's rule. It says "any Chaos Cultists in the same army as Typhus can be nominated as Plague Zombies." His CSM rules were written pre detatchment stuff, and as far as I know, haven't been updated since the codex. Typhus can indeed change the cultists into zombies.

Yeah, I realized my error afterward. Thanks for clearing that up.

However, it did bring up another question. If they become zombies, are they still cultists? Meaning, the AL rules say that cultists gain infiltrate, but they are zombies so they may not get it.

That is an interesting quandary, but I think the plague zombies would still count as cultists, just with new rules tacked on since they aren't given a separate dataslate.

Requizen wrote:

Haha I'm thinking of a super-friends-esque Deathstar for CSM. 1k Sons for the Astral Grimoire, Alpha Legion for the Mindveil, World Eaters for the Talisman of Burning Blood.

There's a unit that moves 15" per turn (12" from Astral, +3" from the Talisman), and can move out of combat if they get locked in to charge again. Enjoy having the fastest combat Deathstar in the game that can't be tarpitted. Granted it takes all 3 of your detachment slots in ITC, but some may consider that worthwhile.

I keep looking at this. The problem is the sheer number of tax units makes getting anything else difficult.

I mean obviously I want the WE detachment for the +2d6 bonus move. And at that point, the extra +3 charge range and fleet from the maelstrom of gore is icing on the cake.


You can really overclock a unit of kharne and bezerkers.

Astral Grimoire sounds good but I think it's better to eschew it in favor of a KDK detachment and use Hounds for the core of the death star. They're still the best we've got as a base and already move 12" anyway. And Captyn Bob is on the money about the tax units. You need minimum 5 units of Cultists just to get mindveil and the talisman into a unit of hounds and then that precludes a Sorceror cabal which is what really makes the star tick.

Requizen wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
The Mindveil Oblitstar does sound very entertaining though, since it's basically Hit and Run, but better in most every way.

No Initiative check. You don't have to move the full distance, unlike H&R, and you can change direction. The no-consolidate on top of all of that is just beautiful as you can now make use of Flame weapons with even more brutality than beforehand.

Haha I'm thinking of a super-friends-esque Deathstar for CSM. 1k Sons for the Astral Grimoire, Alpha Legion for the Mindveil, World Eaters for the Talisman of Burning Blood.

There's a unit that moves 15" per turn (12" from Astral, +3" from the Talisman), and can move out of combat if they get locked in to charge again. Enjoy having the fastest combat Deathstar in the game that can't be tarpitted. Granted it takes all 3 of your detachment slots in ITC, but some may consider that worthwhile.

Can't be done. Rules prohibit mixing chaos marks so you can have Thousand Sons and Alpha Legion or World Eaters and Alpha Legion, but never Thousand Sons and World Eaters in the same unit.

That said there are still great possibilities sticking to only one mark.

Captyn_Bob wrote:

Requizen wrote:

Haha I'm thinking of a super-friends-esque Deathstar for CSM. 1k Sons for the Astral Grimoire, Alpha Legion for the Mindveil, World Eaters for the Talisman of Burning Blood.

There's a unit that moves 15" per turn (12" from Astral, +3" from the Talisman), and can move out of combat if they get locked in to charge again. Enjoy having the fastest combat Deathstar in the game that can't be tarpitted. Granted it takes all 3 of your detachment slots in ITC, but some may consider that worthwhile.

I keep looking at this. The problem is the sheer number of tax units makes getting anything else difficult.

I mean obviously I want the WE detachment for the +2d6 bonus move. And at that point, the extra +3 charge range and fleet from the maelstrom of gore is icing on the cake.


You can really overclock a unit of kharne and bezerkers.

astro_nomicon wrote:Astral Grimoire sounds good but I think it's better to eschew it in favor of a KDK detachment and use Hounds for the core of the death star. They're still the best we've got as a base and already move 12" anyway. And Captyn Bob is on the money about the tax units. You need minimum 5 units of Cultists just to get mindveil and the talisman into a unit of hounds and then that precludes a Sorceror cabal which is what really makes the star tick.

Fhionnuisce wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
The Mindveil Oblitstar does sound very entertaining though, since it's basically Hit and Run, but better in most every way.

No Initiative check. You don't have to move the full distance, unlike H&R, and you can change direction. The no-consolidate on top of all of that is just beautiful as you can now make use of Flame weapons with even more brutality than beforehand.

Haha I'm thinking of a super-friends-esque Deathstar for CSM. 1k Sons for the Astral Grimoire, Alpha Legion for the Mindveil, World Eaters for the Talisman of Burning Blood.

There's a unit that moves 15" per turn (12" from Astral, +3" from the Talisman), and can move out of combat if they get locked in to charge again. Enjoy having the fastest combat Deathstar in the game that can't be tarpitted. Granted it takes all 3 of your detachment slots in ITC, but some may consider that worthwhile.

Can't be done. Rules prohibit mixing chaos marks so you can have Thousand Sons and Alpha Legion or World Eaters and Alpha Legion, but never Thousand Sons and World Eaters in the same unit.

That said there are still great possibilities sticking to only one mark.

Fair enough, I don't know CSM that well.

So maybe a unit of Hounds with Mindveil and Talisman with a bunch of nasty characters? Essentially just a better version of current Houndstar - faster and not able to get locked in combat.

Is the Cabal only for BL? Or can you make the Sorcs Alpha Legion for the Mindveil?

So I'm going to be doing some proxy games this weekend to see if the traitor legions book is enough to tempt me back to chaos.
However I am having issues writing an Emperors Children list. The world eaters list I wrote was quite straight forward (MSU, no vehicles, a few choppy characters) but the Emps Kiddies are causing me some major dilemmas.
Do I go shooty with the noise marine core formation, augmented with some spawn, a deamon prince and maybe a raptor talon?
Or is close combat more suited, seeing as you can get atrocious levels of durability with huge units? Any advice for either approach is appreciated

Fhionnuisce wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
The Mindveil Oblitstar does sound very entertaining though, since it's basically Hit and Run, but better in most every way.

No Initiative check. You don't have to move the full distance, unlike H&R, and you can change direction. The no-consolidate on top of all of that is just beautiful as you can now make use of Flame weapons with even more brutality than beforehand.

Haha I'm thinking of a super-friends-esque Deathstar for CSM. 1k Sons for the Astral Grimoire, Alpha Legion for the Mindveil, World Eaters for the Talisman of Burning Blood.

There's a unit that moves 15" per turn (12" from Astral, +3" from the Talisman), and can move out of combat if they get locked in to charge again. Enjoy having the fastest combat Deathstar in the game that can't be tarpitted. Granted it takes all 3 of your detachment slots in ITC, but some may consider that worthwhile.

Can't be done. Rules prohibit mixing chaos marks so you can have Thousand Sons and Alpha Legion or World Eaters and Alpha Legion, but never Thousand Sons and World Eaters in the same unit.

That said there are still great possibilities sticking to only one mark.

It depends on what he attaches to what. An indie character with a mark cannot attach to a unit with a different mark, but an indie without a mark can attach to a marked unit and vice versa. Two indies with different marks can also attach to an unmarked unit. So a lord with a mark can attach and a sorc with a different mark can both attach to an unmarked unit. When the unmarked unit gets wiped out leaving two marked independents gets wiped, I'm not really sure what happens as the rules don't address it, but I would say they have to go their separate ways.

My initial inclination with EC is to go primarily close combat with a bit of shooting support. You have to pay for +1 initiative on all your units which is wasted if you never go toe to toe and 4+ FNP can certainly be a big boost in getting you there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

Fhionnuisce wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
The Mindveil Oblitstar does sound very entertaining though, since it's basically Hit and Run, but better in most every way.

No Initiative check. You don't have to move the full distance, unlike H&R, and you can change direction. The no-consolidate on top of all of that is just beautiful as you can now make use of Flame weapons with even more brutality than beforehand.

Haha I'm thinking of a super-friends-esque Deathstar for CSM. 1k Sons for the Astral Grimoire, Alpha Legion for the Mindveil, World Eaters for the Talisman of Burning Blood.

There's a unit that moves 15" per turn (12" from Astral, +3" from the Talisman), and can move out of combat if they get locked in to charge again. Enjoy having the fastest combat Deathstar in the game that can't be tarpitted. Granted it takes all 3 of your detachment slots in ITC, but some may consider that worthwhile.

Can't be done. Rules prohibit mixing chaos marks so you can have Thousand Sons and Alpha Legion or World Eaters and Alpha Legion, but never Thousand Sons and World Eaters in the same unit.

That said there are still great possibilities sticking to only one mark.

It depends on what he attaches to what. An indie character with a mark cannot attach to a unit with a different mark, but an indie without a mark can attach to a marked unit. Two indies with different marks can also attach to an unmarked unit. So a lord with a mark can attach and a sorc with a different mark can both attach to an unmarked unit. When the unmarked unit gets wiped out leaving two marked independents gets wiped, I'm not really sure what happens as the rules don't address it, but I would say they have to go their separate ways.

Once the first IC joins it is now a unit with a mark so no other differently marked characters can join.

Fhionnuisce wrote:
My initial inclination with EC is to go primarily close combat with a bit of shooting support. You have to pay for +1 initiative on all your units which is wasted if you never go toe to toe and 4+ FNP can certainly be a big boost in getting you there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

Fhionnuisce wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
The Mindveil Oblitstar does sound very entertaining though, since it's basically Hit and Run, but better in most every way.

No Initiative check. You don't have to move the full distance, unlike H&R, and you can change direction. The no-consolidate on top of all of that is just beautiful as you can now make use of Flame weapons with even more brutality than beforehand.

Haha I'm thinking of a super-friends-esque Deathstar for CSM. 1k Sons for the Astral Grimoire, Alpha Legion for the Mindveil, World Eaters for the Talisman of Burning Blood.

There's a unit that moves 15" per turn (12" from Astral, +3" from the Talisman), and can move out of combat if they get locked in to charge again. Enjoy having the fastest combat Deathstar in the game that can't be tarpitted. Granted it takes all 3 of your detachment slots in ITC, but some may consider that worthwhile.

Can't be done. Rules prohibit mixing chaos marks so you can have Thousand Sons and Alpha Legion or World Eaters and Alpha Legion, but never Thousand Sons and World Eaters in the same unit.

That said there are still great possibilities sticking to only one mark.

It depends on what he attaches to what. An indie character with a mark cannot attach to a unit with a different mark, but an indie without a mark can attach to a marked unit. Two indies with different marks can also attach to an unmarked unit. So a lord with a mark can attach and a sorc with a different mark can both attach to an unmarked unit. When the unmarked unit gets wiped out leaving two marked independents gets wiped, I'm not really sure what happens as the rules don't address it, but I would say they have to go their separate ways.

Once the first IC joins it is now a unit with a mark so no other differently marked characters can join.

Please provide some citation for that as it is an issue that people have been commenting about since the CSM codex was initially released.

Man its really a shame you can't do a proper Chaos Super Friends with only 3 detachments. I came up with this and it looks pretty good but it's 4 detachments. Still I'll post it for consideration.

+++ Chaos Super Friends (Warhammer 40,000 7th Edition v2013) (1813pts) +++

++ Allied Detachment (Chaos Khorne Daemonkin v2000) ++

+ HQ +

········Herald [Exalted Locus of Wrath, Hellblade]

+ Troops +

········Chaos Cultists [7x Cultists]
············Cultist Champion [Autopistol]

+ Fast Attack +

········Flesh Hounds [20x Flesh Hounds]

++ Combined Arms Detachment (Chaos Space Marines: Codex (2012) v2009) ++

+ Uncategorised +

········Force Options (Supplement options here) [World Eaters]

········Hidden Units and Dataslates (Select first and once per roster) [Show all hidden Force Org options, Show Dataslate entries]

+ HQ +

········Chaos Lord [Juggernaut of Khorne, Lightning Claw, Mark of Khorne, Power Armour, Power Fist, Sigil of corruption, Talisman of Burning Blood, Veterans of the Long War]

········Kharn the Betrayer

+ Troops +

········Chaos Cultists [Cultist Champion, 9x Cultists, Mark of Khorne]

········Chaos Cultists [Cultist Champion, 9x Cultists, Mark of Khorne]

++ Formation Detachment (Chaos Space Marines: Codex (2012) v2009) ++

+ Uncategorised +

········Force Options (Supplement options here) [Black Legion]

+ Formation +

········Cyclopia Cabal
············Sorcerer [2x Additional Mastery Level, Bike, Bolt Pistol, Force Axe, Power Armour, Spell familiar, Veterans of the Long War]
············Sorcerer [2x Additional Mastery Level, Bike, Bolt Pistol, Force Axe, Power Armour, Spell familiar, Veterans of the Long War]
············Sorcerer [2x Additional Mastery Level, Bike, Bolt Pistol, Force Axe, Power Armour, Spell familiar, Veterans of the Long War]
············Sorcerer [2x Additional Mastery Level, Bike, Bolt Pistol, Force Axe, Power Armour, Spell familiar, Veterans of the Long War]

++ Combined Arms Detachment (Chaos Space Marines: Codex (2012) v2009) ++

+ Uncategorised +

········Force Options (Supplement options here) [Alpha Legion]

········Hidden Units and Dataslates (Select first and once per roster) [Show all hidden Force Org options, Show Dataslate entries]

+ HQ +

········Sorcerer [2x Additional Mastery Level, Bike, Force Axe, Power Armour, Spell familiar, The Mindveil, Veterans of the Long War]

+ Troops +

········Chaos Cultists [Cultist Champion, 9x Cultists]

········Chaos Cultists [Cultist Champion, 9x Cultists]

Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

An Independent Character that joins a unit is considered part of that unit (BRB). If the IC has a mark and is part of the unit then the unit has that mark even if not all models in it do. An IC with a mark of chaos can't join a unit with a different mark (C:CSM).

Fhionnuisce wrote:
An Independent Character that joins a unit is considered part of that unit (BRB). If the IC has a mark and is part of the unit then the unit has that mark even if not all models in it do. An IC with a mark of chaos can't join a unit with a different mark (C:CSM).

Nope, if my Nurgle lord joins an unmarked CSM squad, the squad does not get my mark. Sorry, but you are wrong on this and have been since the CSM codex was released. "Considered part of that unit" does not bestow a mark. Your second sentence needs a citation as that is the one you are wrong about. That also is the crux of the discussion. So if you can defend that second sentence, I will agree with you. (I won't as this has been addressed many times over for years)

I wish you were right as it would have meant lots of free points before free points were a thing.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

Fhionnuisce wrote:
An Independent Character that joins a unit is considered part of that unit (BRB). If the IC has a mark and is part of the unit then the unit has that mark even if not all models in it do. An IC with a mark of chaos can't join a unit with a different mark (C:CSM).

Nope, if my Nurgle lord joins an unmarked CSM squad, the squad does not get my mark. Sorry, but you are wrong on this and have been since the CSM codex was released. "Considered part of that unit" does not bestow a mark. Your second sentence needs a citation as that is the one you are wrong about. That also is the crux of the discussion. So if you can defend that second sentence, I will agree with you. (I won't as this has been addressed many times over for years)

The "squad" doesn't get the mark but the unit has a mark. There is a mark there in the unit. It doesn't say all models in the unit. It doesn't say the unit before ICs join. It just says the unit has a mark. If you want to ignore that IC for the purposes of determining if the unit has a mark but include the IC for all other rules it really seems like you should be citing rules that support that.

That said this conversation is better suited for YMDC so feel free to take it there if you really feel like there is a case.

Well as for super friends, we can't spam allied detachments like loyalists. But we can take a herald (or whatever) and two cultists from daemonkin/daemons and then spam allied detachments of legions. I don't really care about the number of detachments it would take, only points.

Fhionnuisce wrote:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:

Fhionnuisce wrote:
An Independent Character that joins a unit is considered part of that unit (BRB). If the IC has a mark and is part of the unit then the unit has that mark even if not all models in it do. An IC with a mark of chaos can't join a unit with a different mark (C:CSM).

Nope, if my Nurgle lord joins an unmarked CSM squad, the squad does not get my mark. Sorry, but you are wrong on this and have been since the CSM codex was released. "Considered part of that unit" does not bestow a mark. Your second sentence needs a citation as that is the one you are wrong about. That also is the crux of the discussion. So if you can defend that second sentence, I will agree with you. (I won't as this has been addressed many times over for years)

The "squad" doesn't get the mark but the unit has a mark. There is a mark there in the unit. It doesn't say all models in the unit. It doesn't say the unit before ICs join. It just says the unit has a mark. If you want to ignore that IC for the purposes of determining if the unit has a mark but include the IC for all other rules it really seems like you should be citing rules that support that.

That said this conversation is better suited for YMDC so feel free to take it there if you really feel like there is a case.

Will do, we will report back!

Here's my recipe overclocked bezerkers

Butcherhorde ( circa 1000)

Jugger lord fist/claw talisman of burning blood.

20 bezerkers, fist.
3x 5 bezerkers
1 khorne spawn.

Thousand sons Fist of the gods (starts at 400)
Warpsmith, aura, astral grimoire
3x predators.

Alpha Legion CAD (~ starts at 190)
Sorceror, mindveil
2x cultists.

So that's 3 detachments, at around 1600 pts, leaving a bit spare for upgrades and stuff.
There's a lot of units, but nothing is useless. cultists can infiltrate, zerkers surge forward in a scary mass.

The TS warpsmith can boost the blob T1, and then look after his tanks. Maybe with 1 unit of cultists as protection.


So the bezerker blob gets a 2d6 re-deployment move, 15" move, d6+3 run, and 2d6 +6" Charge, with fleet.
Fast. Lacks in durability, only have one sorceror to try and get invisibility/shrouding. Also gets red rain one per game to double assault, and the mindveil so you are never having a turn you aren't charging.

I am really digging Black Legion for their flexibility, and I'm impressed with the Hounds of Abbadon formation, one that I passed over on my first read through.

Gives models the Mark of Khorne for free, plus a once per game assault-after-run. If they roll 8+ for assault they get +1 Strength.

Unit requirements are lower than the "Chaos-Demi-Co" and it gets you Berzerkers in a Black Legion list. But more tasty are the basic Chaos Space Marines for 13ppm CC loadout. Rage, Counter Attack, Crusader, Endless Hatred. I didn't quite appreciate them until a trial battle when I was rolling two dice for runs (picking the highest) and throwing buckets of attack dice and re-rolling to hit. I'm now thinking about a cloud or two of them with Icons to re-roll charges.

Best of all? It's a Core formation for Black Legion Decurion.

Also used the Cyclopea Cabal. In the psychic phase I was getting a White Scars Command Squad to fire his Ignores Cover special weapons at other White Scares Bikers and doing terrible damage. Nasty, nasty power.

I lost the game, I had thrown together my army in a hurry and didn't really know how to use it. But I got a nasty round of charges off against multiple Bike Squads and had I been better prepared for it/rolled a little better, my opponent and I agreed that things looked dodgy for a pretty competitive White Scars list. I came away from the game with very good impressions.