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Predictable battle report, very one dimensional army.

It has got me thinking about.. not deploying anything important.. ever..
Fist of Khorne + Speartip assault = Profit?

World Eaters vs Death Guard, shows a mix of CC and ranged World Eaters against the Death Guard detachment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg4rjMhWdF8

That's a stupid dirty Tau list anyway.

Requizen wrote:
That's a stupid dirty Tau list anyway.

Can confirm. Is basically my tournament Tau list, minus the Ghostkeel and Tetras and plus a drone net and a second Stormsurge.

Not much stands in its way, although I do want to try my khorne mass first turn assault list against it.

 luke1705 wrote:

Requizen wrote:
That's a stupid dirty Tau list anyway.

Can confirm. Is basically my tournament Tau list, minus the Ghostkeel and Tetras and plus a drone net and a second Stormsurge.

Not much stands in its way, although I do want to try my khorne mass first turn assault list against it.

I imagine if he had all his fast units in the middle of his army instead of spreading out the bikes to the far edge he could have gotten much closer and been able to punch a hole through the bubble wrap with his melta bikes, leaving a hole big enough for his lord's unit to run through.

Having a stronger shooting element would have helped, but it's hard to not despair about the fact that not going first is basically an auto=lose.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Having a stronger shooting element would have helped, but it's hard to not despair about the fact that not going first is basically an auto=lose.

Yyyyeeeaaaahhh, there's no getting around the fast that if he had gone second then all his important units would have been deleted from the game before they were able to do anything.

 koooaei wrote:

 Rydria wrote:
Just want to get peoples opinions when you take the warband do you take x2 5 man CSM squads or do you take x2 10 man squads and do you take the rhino or not ?

Though i'm honestly despite the fact i want the dream +1 toughness from the drugs in the decurion, tempted to just go back to playing CAD just so I don't have to take the tax units like CSMs

EC, DG and WE csm have been improved to the point of not being a tax imo. Maybe AL and NL too.

I disagree, EC CSM work out at 17 pts each when you factor in the champion tax (10pts) in a 5 man squad and +1 initiative is basically worthless on objective campers who have 1 attack base.

to be fair they could of done with some more LoS blocking terrain in that game not that i expect those tau would care.

Iron Warriors... is taking Obliterators as ob-sec Troop choices in a CAD actually worthwhile?

I've never taken markless Obliterators, as without the Nurgle toughness bonus they're just too soft. The Grand Company is an interesting detachment, but I'm curious if there is a worthwhile purely CAD army in Iron Warriors. Taking multiple CADs and fielding many Obliterator units of individual Obliterators... and using that as the core of the army. Is there a way to make that work?

 aka_mythos wrote:
Iron Warriors... is taking Obliterators as ob-sec Troop choices in a CAD actually worthwhile?

I've never taken markless Obliterators, as without the Nurgle toughness bonus they're just too soft. The Grand Company is an interesting detachment, but I'm curious if there is a worthwhile purely CAD army in Iron Warriors. Taking multiple CADs and fielding many Obliterator units of individual Obliterators... and using that as the core of the army. Is there a way to make that work?

Is it bad? No. Is it worthwhile? I think there are better options. The chaos warband has all of your objective secured needs covered, so taking a CAD really only benefits you if you're taking a lord of war. Or if you like Iron Warriors and want to run them regardless of what the better options may be.

Aside - that's the nice thing about a lot of these detachments - they enable you to play the game how you want to and do it at a reasonably competitive level. Play what you want and it'll be fun and probably good enough outside of a big tournament.

That being said, death guard terminators (whether in a CAD or their special decurion detachment) are just so much better. FNP, T5, plus stealth outside of 18" and re-rolling 1's for FNP in their special detachment. Oh and they're fearless for good measure. What more could you want? Obsec sure but again, other units have that covered.

I like Death Guard, but I've played with them for so long I'd rather do something different... and I'm not a fan of Black Legion. I'm zeroing in on an Iron Warriors army that's heavy on Wall of Martyr Battle Cannon emplacements.

 aka_mythos wrote:
Iron Warriors... is taking Obliterators as ob-sec Troop choices in a CAD actually worthwhile?

I've never taken markless Obliterators, as without the Nurgle toughness bonus they're just too soft. The Grand Company is an interesting detachment, but I'm curious if there is a worthwhile purely CAD army in Iron Warriors. Taking multiple CADs and fielding many Obliterator units of individual Obliterators... and using that as the core of the army. Is there a way to make that work?

Yes. They're good. Tried it allready.

Sooooooo. What's the best Turn 1 anti tank shooting that chaos can put out? Preferably ignores cover.

I keep looking at the eye of night. Then realising it's 75pts and could just miss. There must be better.
Renegade quad launchers is close. Renegade artillery with psyker support is close.. would prefer not blast.

Idea is to get close with T1 assaulters and strip away and vehicle shield.

With FW, I'd say that a fire raptor gunship on a skyshield might be good for turn one, if you don't want blasts. havocs with autocannons, or even a forgefiend with psychic support or some formation is also viable (though forgefiend is expensive)

The Laser Vindicator for sure. Stand still if you have good positioning, and that's 3 TL S9 AP1 shots you're putting out.

 koooaei wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
Iron Warriors... is taking Obliterators as ob-sec Troop choices in a CAD actually worthwhile?

I've never taken markless Obliterators, as without the Nurgle toughness bonus they're just too soft. The Grand Company is an interesting detachment, but I'm curious if there is a worthwhile purely CAD army in Iron Warriors. Taking multiple CADs and fielding many Obliterator units of individual Obliterators... and using that as the core of the army. Is there a way to make that work?

Yes. They're good. Tried it allready.

How many Obliterators did you bring? How did you use them?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Laser Vindicator for sure. Stand still if you have good positioning, and that's 3 TL S9 AP1 shots you're putting out.

that's pretty solid. Still can't punch through cover reliably. Maybe the sicaran.. ignores jink is close


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe the cyclopea cabal .. if you can't beat em , steal their stuff and shoot em in the back.
Although treason of tzeentch is similar too..

Captyn_Bob wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Laser Vindicator for sure. Stand still if you have good positioning, and that's 3 TL S9 AP1 shots you're putting out.

that's pretty solid. Still can't punch through cover reliably. Maybe the sicaran.. ignores jink is close


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Maybe the cyclopea cabal .. if you can't beat em , steal their stuff and shoot em in the back.
Although treason of tzeentch is similar too..

Cover won't be too much a problem with vehicles. Any of the important ones are rushing towards you anyway.

Also forgot to mention it has Ordnance. So that's 3 TL S9 AP1 Ordnance shots. Pretty darned good for around 130 points or so

Can confirm, Destroyer vindicator does good work. Even through cover, its probably one of the most reliable antitank platforms in the game for its cost.
Though mine has a tendency to melt itself into the ground..

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Sooooooo. What's the best Turn 1 anti tank shooting that chaos can put out? Preferably ignores cover.

I keep looking at the eye of night. Then realising it's 75pts and could just miss. There must be better.
Renegade quad launchers is close. Renegade artillery with psyker support is close.. would prefer not blast.

Idea is to get close with T1 assaulters and strip away and vehicle shield.

IW CAD:
Warpsmith or Sorcerer
1xObliterator
1xObliterator
1xObliterator
1xObliterator
1xObliterator
1xObliterator
Laser Destroyer Vindicator
Laser Destroyer Vindicator

I know a guy that plays AM, and he was not happy at how IW is arguable better than AM now in the artillery department with their re rolls for ordinance

pepsuber wrote:
I know a guy that plays AM, and he was not happy at how IW is arguable better than AM now in the artillery department with their re rolls for ordinance

I think it will be harder for IW to bring as many ordnance weapons, even still the easiest ordnance IW can bring are either vindicators which lack the versatility of LR battle tanks or fortifications that are forced to shoot at the closest targets. Our advantage is how this combines with our tougher infantry.

 aka_mythos wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
Iron Warriors... is taking Obliterators as ob-sec Troop choices in a CAD actually worthwhile?

I've never taken markless Obliterators, as without the Nurgle toughness bonus they're just too soft. The Grand Company is an interesting detachment, but I'm curious if there is a worthwhile purely CAD army in Iron Warriors. Taking multiple CADs and fielding many Obliterator units of individual Obliterators... and using that as the core of the army. Is there a way to make that work?

Yes. They're good. Tried it allready.

How many Obliterators did you bring? How did you use them?

4 oblis and a 2+ dp as allies to a min kacoponii with spawns in a 1k pt game.

As much as I love IW, I can honestly say I'm going to use IW for the DP, oblits, and fortifications. Other than that its DG in Iron warrior colors they're just so much tougher, yeah DG can't outshoot loyalists but but that's what the IW are for, the hammer to the DG's anvil.

That's just me though and I've yet to test it but it SEEMS a very good route.

 Ir0njack wrote:
As much as I love IW, I can honestly say I'm going to use IW for the DP, oblits, and fortifications. Other than that its DG in Iron warrior colors they're just so much tougher, yeah DG can't outshoot loyalists but but that's what the IW are for, the hammer to the DG's anvil.

That's just me though and I've yet to test it but it SEEMS a very good route.

Death Guard Obliterators are just stupid better for the price though because they're that much more durable. Yeah you can't take as many of them, but you don't need to.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Ir0njack wrote:
As much as I love IW, I can honestly say I'm going to use IW for the DP, oblits, and fortifications. Other than that its DG in Iron warrior colors they're just so much tougher, yeah DG can't outshoot loyalists but but that's what the IW are for, the hammer to the DG's anvil.

That's just me though and I've yet to test it but it SEEMS a very good route.

Death Guard Obliterators are just stupid better for the price though because they're that much more durable. Yeah you can't take as many of them, but you don't need to.

Deathguard obliterators don't have tank hunter or obsec, so there worse at dealing out damage and contesting objectives.

 Rydria wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Ir0njack wrote:
As much as I love IW, I can honestly say I'm going to use IW for the DP, oblits, and fortifications. Other than that its DG in Iron warrior colors they're just so much tougher, yeah DG can't outshoot loyalists but but that's what the IW are for, the hammer to the DG's anvil.

That's just me though and I've yet to test it but it SEEMS a very good route.

Death Guard Obliterators are just stupid better for the price though because they're that much more durable. Yeah you can't take as many of them, but you don't need to.

Deathguard obliterators don't have tank hunter or obsec, so there worse at dealing out damage and contesting objectives.

While that may be true, extra turns of shooting will make up for that. For the most part, I don't see obliterators having obsec as a huge benefit. They will almost never camp an objective and you're often pushing a direction to get rage for a weapon type. (Here is where I wish they'd go back to only certain things holding objectives then this would be super cool bonus).

T5 and FNP is such a huge boost over T4.

I'm inclined to agree, if it's a straight choice between them. But the ability to fill out a mandatory troop choice with a tank hunting obsec 6+fnp free VOTLw oblit, sure feels worth 20pts over cultists.