Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Yeah, Stalkers are gak at combat. They have four attacks that basically do nothing. They're a unit that shoots things. Nothing more nothing less.

Model is super bad ass though.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Yeah, Stalkers are gak at combat. They have four attacks that basically do nothing. They're a unit that shoots things. Nothing more nothing less.

Model is super bad ass though.

There was a point where he had it crawling over some terrain to assault my lord. It looked awesome, but yeah it couldn't hurt me at all.

I updated my main army after some post-game analysis and other than not having a Disc for my Herald, I feel this is rather solid for Word Bearers armies. It has lots of small assault threats, psychic support, and two largish blobs of Fearless Cultists to bring the pain.

++Word Bearers Grand Host [Primary]++
+Chaos Warband+
Sorcerer of Nurgle on Palanquin w/ Force Axe, ML 3, Malefic Tome - 190 [Warlord]
Tzeentch Lord on Disc w/ Lightning Claw/Powerfist, Sigil of Corruption, Scrolls of Magnus and Spell Familiar - 235

5 CSM, 4 extra CCW, Meltagun and Combi-Melta Champ - 103
-Rhino w/ Dozer Blade - 40
5 CSM, 4 extra CCW, Meltagun and Combi-Melta Champ - 103
-Rhino w/ Dozer Blade - 40

3 Terminators w/ Combi-Plasma and Power Axe, Champ has Power Fist - 122
3 Terminators w/ Combi-Plasma and Power Axe, Champ has Power Fist - 122

3 Bikers of Slaanesh w/ 2 Bike-Mounted Meltaguns and Champ w/ Lance - 111
3 Bikers of Slaanesh w/ 2 Bike-Mounted Meltaguns and Champ w/ Lance - 111

Helbrute w/ Multimelta - 100

+Spawn+
3 Spawn - 90

++Helcult++
Helbrute w/ Multimelta - 100
21 Cultists, 2 Flamers - 104
21 Cultists, 2 Flamers - 104

++Daemon CAD++
Herald of Tzeentch w/ ML 2 Paradox, and Exalted Locus of Conjuration - 120
11 Blue Horrors - 55

Total: 1850

Scrolls are my "fun toy"/utility for my Lord. The Lord joins one Cultist unit, and the Sorcerer joins the other Cultist unit; this grants the Cultists Crusader and Objective Secured.

Previously I had a 2nd Horror unit and a Disc for my Herald. I felt it easier to just summon a Horror unit on turn 1 if needed and call it a day from there for WC generation. I feel that the mix of extra Cultists, Flamers for said Cultist units, and Fists for the Terminator Champs gives me more flexibility overall.

 andysonic1 wrote:
Played WE vs Crons, he replaced his Annihilation Barge with the Judicator Battalion thing, two Arks and his CC Warlord unit. I had arguably a terrible list: warband with Kharn, 3 naked termies, 5 bikes with meltas, two units of Havocs with 5 meltas each, two rhinos one with anomaly, two MSU CSM, and a DP and juggerlords and spawn.

He conceded top of turn three. He didn't know Walkers don't get smash and walked his big judicator walker guy into combat where it stayed. I got two turn one charges off, DP and Spawn Juggerlord, and they started destroying everything. I eliminated all his Scarabs turn one as well. Overall he didn't play his list correctly and it wasn't very good (scarabs on the deployment line, wraths going after my bikes, things close enough for my turn one charges to go off), but mine wasn't very good either (havocs did absolutely nothing, termies wiped out turn one after failing their assault move, useless burning brand lord, my deamon weapons wanting to murder me over my enemy). I'm dropping havocs completely for an anomaly helbrute and taking rhinos with the CSM to sit on the backfield objectives. IDK if I want to try to make the CSM any more killy or beef up the bodies or what I want to do with them yet.

And I've been slingshotting Kharn into combat with the Spawn Juggerlord unit. It stretches out enough to hold onto him while keeping two spawn in front to soak up overwatch.

I'd not call this csm list bad. Havoks can still be neat with autocannons. Don't forget the helbrute doesn't get a free 2d6 move. So, it's gona be quite slow. Whereas at least some ranged support is really good.
Or you could get 4 flamers and be like burna boyz +1.

Black legion continues to be a pretty exciting option for me. i imagine it may take a while to care AS much about them just because there are so many rabid fans of the fluff bunny versions that have finally after all this time been returned to us.

 MagicJuggler wrote:
I updated my main army after some post-game analysis and other than not having a Disc for my Herald, I feel this is rather solid for Word Bearers armies. It has lots of small assault threats, psychic support, and two largish blobs of Fearless Cultists to bring the pain.

++Word Bearers Grand Host [Primary]++
+Chaos Warband+
Sorcerer of Nurgle on Palanquin w/ Force Axe, ML 3, Malefic Tome - 190 [Warlord]
Tzeentch Lord on Disc w/ Lightning Claw/Powerfist, Aura of Dark Glory, Scrolls of Magnus and Spell Familiar - 235

5 CSM, 4 extra CCW, Meltagun and Combi-Melta Champ - 103
-Rhino w/ Dozer Blade - 40
5 CSM, 4 extra CCW, Meltagun and Combi-Melta Champ - 103
-Rhino w/ Dozer Blade - 40

3 Terminators w/ Combi-Plasma and Power Axe, Champ has Power Fist - 122
3 Terminators w/ Combi-Plasma and Power Axe, Champ has Power Fist - 122

3 Bikers of Slaanesh w/ 2 Bike-Mounted Meltaguns and Champ w/ Lance - 111
3 Bikers of Slaanesh w/ 2 Bike-Mounted Meltaguns and Champ w/ Lance - 111

Helbrute w/ Multimelta - 100

+Spawn+
3 Spawn - 90

++Helcult++
Helbrute w/ Multimelta - 100
21 Cultists, 2 Flamers - 104
21 Cultists, 2 Flamers - 104

++Daemon CAD++
Herald of Tzeentch w/ ML 2 Paradox, and Exalted Locus of Conjuration - 120
11 Blue Horrors - 55

Total: 1850

Scrolls are my "fun toy"/utility for my Lord. The Lord joins one Cultist unit, and the Sorcerer joins the other Cultist unit; this grants the Cultists Crusader and Objective Secured.

Previously I had a 2nd Horror unit and a Disc for my Herald. I felt it easier to just summon a Horror unit on turn 1 if needed and call it a day from there for WC generation. I feel that the mix of extra Cultists, Flamers for said Cultist units, and Fists for the Terminator Champs gives me more flexibility overall.

Why would you ever put the Power Fists on the Champion of the Terminators? It'll just be challenged out.
Switch it to one of the regular grunts, remove a Cultist and then use those saved points to give the Lord a Sigil because the Aura is hot garbage. Seriously. Unless it is literally the only option for an Invul (so Warpsmith and the units that already have it), there's NO purpose in getting the Aura. Ever.

 Jancoran wrote:
Black legion continues to be a pretty exciting option for me. i imagine it may take a while to care AS much about them just because there are so many rabid fans of the fluff bunny versions that have finally after all this time been returned to us.

Someone suggested using the Speartip detachment with an Iron Warriors CAD that consists of a CL, 2 Obliterators, and a fortification with comms-relay to improve chances to arrive the first turn.

Yes... yes...

Let's talk about Skyfire nexus. Does a model with this rule get to shoot at anything arriving from reserve, or just one per turn?

 andysonic1 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Yeah, Stalkers are gak at combat. They have four attacks that basically do nothing. They're a unit that shoots things. Nothing more nothing less.

Model is super bad ass though.

There was a point where he had it crawling over some terrain to assault my lord. It looked awesome, but yeah it couldn't hurt me at all.

Yeah. It has MTC by default, which is nice, but that's about it. If it had AP2 on its attacks or maybe even one more gun it might be worth its points. As it stands it is more a tax for things.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
I updated my main army after some post-game analysis and other than not having a Disc for my Herald, I feel this is rather solid for Word Bearers armies. It has lots of small assault threats, psychic support, and two largish blobs of Fearless Cultists to bring the pain.

++Word Bearers Grand Host [Primary]++
+Chaos Warband+
Sorcerer of Nurgle on Palanquin w/ Force Axe, ML 3, Malefic Tome - 190 [Warlord]
Tzeentch Lord on Disc w/ Lightning Claw/Powerfist, Aura of Dark Glory, Scrolls of Magnus and Spell Familiar - 235

5 CSM, 4 extra CCW, Meltagun and Combi-Melta Champ - 103
-Rhino w/ Dozer Blade - 40
5 CSM, 4 extra CCW, Meltagun and Combi-Melta Champ - 103
-Rhino w/ Dozer Blade - 40

3 Terminators w/ Combi-Plasma and Power Axe, Champ has Power Fist - 122
3 Terminators w/ Combi-Plasma and Power Axe, Champ has Power Fist - 122

3 Bikers of Slaanesh w/ 2 Bike-Mounted Meltaguns and Champ w/ Lance - 111
3 Bikers of Slaanesh w/ 2 Bike-Mounted Meltaguns and Champ w/ Lance - 111

Helbrute w/ Multimelta - 100

+Spawn+
3 Spawn - 90

++Helcult++
Helbrute w/ Multimelta - 100
21 Cultists, 2 Flamers - 104
21 Cultists, 2 Flamers - 104

++Daemon CAD++
Herald of Tzeentch w/ ML 2 Paradox, and Exalted Locus of Conjuration - 120
11 Blue Horrors - 55

Total: 1850

Scrolls are my "fun toy"/utility for my Lord. The Lord joins one Cultist unit, and the Sorcerer joins the other Cultist unit; this grants the Cultists Crusader and Objective Secured.

Previously I had a 2nd Horror unit and a Disc for my Herald. I felt it easier to just summon a Horror unit on turn 1 if needed and call it a day from there for WC generation. I feel that the mix of extra Cultists, Flamers for said Cultist units, and Fists for the Terminator Champs gives me more flexibility overall.

Why would you ever put the Power Fists on the Champion of the Terminators? It'll just be challenged out.
Switch it to one of the regular grunts, remove a Cultist and then use those saved points to give the Lord a Sigil because the Aura is hot garbage. Seriously. Unless it is literally the only option for an Invul (so Warpsmith and the units that already have it), there's NO purpose in getting the Aura. Ever.

That was a mistake. He already had a Sigil, I just wrote it down wrong. Oops!

I'm more worried about the Fist being shot out rather than challenged out. It's more for punching backfield vehicles or threatening monsters more than anything else.

 techsoldaten wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Black legion continues to be a pretty exciting option for me. i imagine it may take a while to care AS much about them just because there are so many rabid fans of the fluff bunny versions that have finally after all this time been returned to us.

Someone suggested using the Speartip detachment with an Iron Warriors CAD that consists of a CL, 2 Obliterators, and a fortification with comms-relay to improve chances to arrive the first turn.

Yes... yes...

Let's talk about Skyfire nexus. Does a model with this rule get to shoot at anything arriving from reserve, or just one per turn?

Skyfire Nexus is skyfire, not interceptor. Anyone controlling it gains the rule.

 MagicJuggler wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
I updated my main army after some post-game analysis and other than not having a Disc for my Herald, I feel this is rather solid for Word Bearers armies. It has lots of small assault threats, psychic support, and two largish blobs of Fearless Cultists to bring the pain.

++Word Bearers Grand Host [Primary]++
+Chaos Warband+
Sorcerer of Nurgle on Palanquin w/ Force Axe, ML 3, Malefic Tome - 190 [Warlord]
Tzeentch Lord on Disc w/ Lightning Claw/Powerfist, Aura of Dark Glory, Scrolls of Magnus and Spell Familiar - 235

5 CSM, 4 extra CCW, Meltagun and Combi-Melta Champ - 103
-Rhino w/ Dozer Blade - 40
5 CSM, 4 extra CCW, Meltagun and Combi-Melta Champ - 103
-Rhino w/ Dozer Blade - 40

3 Terminators w/ Combi-Plasma and Power Axe, Champ has Power Fist - 122
3 Terminators w/ Combi-Plasma and Power Axe, Champ has Power Fist - 122

3 Bikers of Slaanesh w/ 2 Bike-Mounted Meltaguns and Champ w/ Lance - 111
3 Bikers of Slaanesh w/ 2 Bike-Mounted Meltaguns and Champ w/ Lance - 111

Helbrute w/ Multimelta - 100

+Spawn+
3 Spawn - 90

++Helcult++
Helbrute w/ Multimelta - 100
21 Cultists, 2 Flamers - 104
21 Cultists, 2 Flamers - 104

++Daemon CAD++
Herald of Tzeentch w/ ML 2 Paradox, and Exalted Locus of Conjuration - 120
11 Blue Horrors - 55

Total: 1850

Scrolls are my "fun toy"/utility for my Lord. The Lord joins one Cultist unit, and the Sorcerer joins the other Cultist unit; this grants the Cultists Crusader and Objective Secured.

Previously I had a 2nd Horror unit and a Disc for my Herald. I felt it easier to just summon a Horror unit on turn 1 if needed and call it a day from there for WC generation. I feel that the mix of extra Cultists, Flamers for said Cultist units, and Fists for the Terminator Champs gives me more flexibility overall.

Why would you ever put the Power Fists on the Champion of the Terminators? It'll just be challenged out.
Switch it to one of the regular grunts, remove a Cultist and then use those saved points to give the Lord a Sigil because the Aura is hot garbage. Seriously. Unless it is literally the only option for an Invul (so Warpsmith and the units that already have it), there's NO purpose in getting the Aura. Ever.

That was a mistake. He already had a Sigil, I just wrote it down wrong. Oops!

I'm more worried about the Fist being shot out rather than challenged out. It's more for punching backfield vehicles or threatening monsters more than anything else.

The group of Terminators is going to die anyway. Expecting them to even live to use the Fist is asking too much.

Saving the points will go a long way. Doing that to both squads nets you a 5 point upgrade elsewhere.

Also I'd only use a Fist at 4 dudes in the suicide squad but that'd just me.

I don't think fists on the terminator champions is a big deal. It's 3 points more expensive than the regular guys, and 6 for both units. If he really needs points for something he could take a couple of cultists away

One thing I could do if I dropped the Fists and the Malefic Tome both, would be to buy a 4th spawn and split them into two 2-Spawn units.

Nah you need to keep the Malefic Tome.

Because the Terminator formation shoots in the movement phase does it become one of our best answers to Knights?

 Eldarain wrote:
Because the Terminator formation shoots in the movement phase does it become one of our best answers to Knights?

In what manner? With Raptors you can shoot off 2-3 Melta shots and assault with a Melta Bomb.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Because the Terminator formation shoots in the movement phase does it become one of our best answers to Knights?

In what manner? With Raptors you can shoot off 2-3 Melta shots and assault with a Melta Bomb.

You fire before they orient their shield.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Nah you need to keep the Malefic Tome.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the Tome. In practice, Summon, a Nurgle support power and either Shriek, Dark Flame, or Plague Wind are enough all-around flexibility for me. One Witchfire, one Blessing/Malediction, and one Summon.

Two units of 2 Spawn lets me spread a wider net/threaten to wreck two metal boxes. And I get two units of two for less than one Maulerfiend.

 Eldarain wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Because the Terminator formation shoots in the movement phase does it become one of our best answers to Knights?

In what manner? With Raptors you can shoot off 2-3 Melta shots and assault with a Melta Bomb.

You fire before they orient their shield.

Depends if you're just planning to HP strip it to death. Without DS protection, the best bet is Combi-Plasma, and with 4 dudes landing in RF range that's maybe 2 HP removed? If you went fluffbunny and grabbed an Autocannon to fire twice, you will remove one HP. So that's 3 HP total?

 koooaei wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
Played WE vs Crons, he replaced his Annihilation Barge with the Judicator Battalion thing, two Arks and his CC Warlord unit. I had arguably a terrible list: warband with Kharn, 3 naked termies, 5 bikes with meltas, two units of Havocs with 5 meltas each, two rhinos one with anomaly, two MSU CSM, and a DP and juggerlords and spawn.

He conceded top of turn three. He didn't know Walkers don't get smash and walked his big judicator walker guy into combat where it stayed. I got two turn one charges off, DP and Spawn Juggerlord, and they started destroying everything. I eliminated all his Scarabs turn one as well. Overall he didn't play his list correctly and it wasn't very good (scarabs on the deployment line, wraths going after my bikes, things close enough for my turn one charges to go off), but mine wasn't very good either (havocs did absolutely nothing, termies wiped out turn one after failing their assault move, useless burning brand lord, my deamon weapons wanting to murder me over my enemy). I'm dropping havocs completely for an anomaly helbrute and taking rhinos with the CSM to sit on the backfield objectives. IDK if I want to try to make the CSM any more killy or beef up the bodies or what I want to do with them yet.

And I've been slingshotting Kharn into combat with the Spawn Juggerlord unit. It stretches out enough to hold onto him while keeping two spawn in front to soak up overwatch.

I'd not call this csm list bad. Havoks can still be neat with autocannons. Don't forget the helbrute doesn't get a free 2d6 move. So, it's gona be quite slow. Whereas at least some ranged support is really good.
Or you could get 4 flamers and be like burna boyz +1.

Havocs are cool and all, but they end up either not having targets due to everything being in close combat, or they can't hurt whatever they can target, or they whiff. I feel like just leaning more heavily on the CQC combat as opposed to adding any ranged help.

Are you able to use the tormented formation in the speartip decurion? They are listed as a black legion detachment but not under the speartip, was this FAQ'd or a mistake on GW's part?

 Solosam47 wrote:
Are you able to use the tormented formation in the speartip decurion? They are listed as a black legion detachment but not under the speartip, was this FAQ'd or a mistake on GW's part?

Probably a mistake. You should message them about it to make sure it gets FAQd

I can only speak for myself but if someone tried to use that formation in a game with me as part of the BL Speartip I'd have no complaints

Captyn_Bob wrote:

 Solosam47 wrote:
Are you able to use the tormented formation in the speartip decurion? They are listed as a black legion detachment but not under the speartip, was this FAQ'd or a mistake on GW's part?

Probably a mistake. You should message them about it to make sure it gets FAQd

Yea and ask em why we got screwed out of a chaos warband formation for that craptastic black legion warband. Im still bitter about this.

You can still take a Black Legion warband in the black crusade detachment, so it's not so bad.

And I actually like the hounds of abaddon for the speartip.

I see people considering a second wave with world eaters. What about taking a World Eater Warband with a couple of spawn and then a Black Legion hounds of abaddon formation with some spawn.

You get the best of both worlds. Hound units hit pretty hard for what they cost given all the discounts. While WE can re-deploy and catch objectives.
Turn one, WE try to run up the board for T1 assaults and objectives in your opponents deployment zone. Spawn can eat overwatch.
Turn two BL marines run and charge into units that are harder to shift or finish off units the WE are struggling with.

The hounds also let you take raptors that give you the option to deepstrike T1 with melta or flamers to crack transports or burn a hole in meatshields to charge through with WE. Maybe even a burning brand lord. Every battle report I've seen of people facing WE has them all cower in one corner to avoid T1 charges (and still get charged). To the point even the eye of night becomes dangerous. Ideal targets to be fried via flamer and blasts.

There's probably not enough points left to take a BL talon or TAF though. Talons in particular would be nice.

So updating my Death Guard list again. Ran a teemie lord with some terminators in a land raider and while it worked heck the raider survived I did miss having no psychic support
1500 Points CSM mono nurgle Death Guard Black Crusade Detachment
Core
Chaos Warband
Chaos Lord Bike MoN Power Fist Sigil of Corruption votlw Warlord 150 points

Chaos Sorceror 155 points
MoN ML 3 VoTLW Jump Pack (goes with the bike squad) spell familiar
10 Chaos marines Mon votlw 9 x ccws 2 plasma guns champion has a power fist 243

Rhino with Havoc Launcher 47 points

10 CSM votlw MoN 2 Plasma Guns 200 points

Rhino 35 points

3 x Terminators Mon votlw 3 conbi plasmas chain fist power fist 152 points

3 Chaos Bikers MoN VOTLW 2 Flamers Conbi Flamer 108 points

Hell brute 100 points

Veterans of The Legion
5 Plague Marines 150 points
VoTLW 2 plasma guns

Rhino 35 points

Lord of the black crusade
Chaos sorceror 140 points
ML 3 VoTLW MoN Spell Familiar

Captyn_Bob wrote:
You can still take a Black Legion warband in the black crusade detachment, so it's not so bad.

And I actually like the hounds of abaddon for the speartip.

If we had gotten access to a chaos warband with the speartip detachment CSM would have its first tourney build in years. But we cant have that can we.

CSM allready have a bunch of worthwhile tourney lists that are way better than this 1-st turn deepstrike shenanigans.

Table wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
You can still take a Black Legion warband in the black crusade detachment, so it's not so bad.

And I actually like the hounds of abaddon for the speartip.

If we had gotten access to a chaos warband with the speartip detachment CSM would have its first tourney build in years. But we cant have that can we.

What's wrong with the Black Legion Warband? You can take a ton of DS units, and so long as they kill something that Preferred-Enemy equivalent is pretty powerful.