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IIRC Commander Dante read a prophecy in the scroll of Sanguinius that said something along the lines of "in the darkest hour a golden angel will stand between the Emperor and the darkness" and he thinks this may mean sanguinius in the heresy, but it may be him. Hence, he decides to fight on. Since the end times are coming, we may finally see whether Dante is the Golden Angel, if so who will the darkness be? I'd love to see him fight abbadon in the throne room right in front of the emperor but I sense I'm asking for too much xD

Haven't read the fluff myself, nor I am that versed in the lore of the Blood Angels, but couldn't it be the Sanguinor?

I guess though it possibly being him is the drive that keeps him alive and fighting.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Haven't read the fluff myself, nor I am that versed in the lore of the Blood Angels, but couldn't it be the Sanguinor?

I guess though it possibly being him is the drive that keeps him alive and fighting.

I think GW may pull out a kind of Sigmar/Karl Franz thing once again, and make Dante fuse with the Sanguinor at the darkest hour, and kinda becoming an Avatar of Sanguinius. That would be a bit crappy/easy, but I can totally see them write something like that.

Off-topic, I don't really the fact that every major Chapter Master of the current setting is so the best the chapter has ever seen : Dante and that prophecy, Marneus Calgar whose achievements are second only to Rawbutt Girlyman, Logan whose is the Greatest Space Wolf ever seen since Russ, Lysander (not a chapter master but you get the gak) who is like the second coming of Dorn himself, how Azrael had such a meteoric ascension through the ranks, etc.

Engrenages wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Haven't read the fluff myself, nor I am that versed in the lore of the Blood Angels, but couldn't it be the Sanguinor?

I guess though it possibly being him is the drive that keeps him alive and fighting.

I think GW may pull out a kind of Sigmar/Karl Franz thing once again, and make Dante fuse with the Sanguinor at the darkest hour, and kinda becoming an Avatar of Sanguinius. That would be a bit crappy/easy, but I can totally see them write something like that.

Off-topic, I don't really the fact that every major Chapter Master of the current setting is so the best the chapter has ever seen : Dante and that prophecy, Marneus Calgar whose achievements are second only to Rawbutt Girlyman, Logan whose is the Greatest Space Wolf ever seen since Russ, Lysander (not a chapter master but you get the gak) who is like the second coming of Dorn himself, how Azrael had such a meteoric ascension through the ranks, etc.

Actually Dante was just a mediocre captain with no stellar accomplishments when the chapter took a woodshed beating and he suddenly found himself the highest rank still alive. After that, yeah he managed to live through a lot and become incredibly experienced, but it's definitely not Gary Stu backstory.

 niv-mizzet wrote:

Engrenages wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Haven't read the fluff myself, nor I am that versed in the lore of the Blood Angels, but couldn't it be the Sanguinor?

I guess though it possibly being him is the drive that keeps him alive and fighting.

I think GW may pull out a kind of Sigmar/Karl Franz thing once again, and make Dante fuse with the Sanguinor at the darkest hour, and kinda becoming an Avatar of Sanguinius. That would be a bit crappy/easy, but I can totally see them write something like that.

Off-topic, I don't really the fact that every major Chapter Master of the current setting is so the best the chapter has ever seen : Dante and that prophecy, Marneus Calgar whose achievements are second only to Rawbutt Girlyman, Logan whose is the Greatest Space Wolf ever seen since Russ, Lysander (not a chapter master but you get the gak) who is like the second coming of Dorn himself, how Azrael had such a meteoric ascension through the ranks, etc.

Actually Dante was just a mediocre captain with no stellar accomplishments when the chapter took a woodshed beating and he suddenly found himself the highest rank still alive. After that, yeah he managed to live through a lot and become incredibly experienced, but it's definitely not Gary Stu backstory.

This is the reason I like Dante. He is the single oldest living Space marine (blood angel no less, meaning insane discipline) and has been in overall command in warzones several times, once over the a combination of Salamanders, Ultramarines and Blood Angels (with Calgar present). He has the highest stat of any space marine, and he's only still in it because he believes he must for the prophecy, Meaning he's actually thinking of some sort of retirment. He has made some impressive strategical decisions in the past and has managed to keep good diplomatic relations with the Inquisition to keep the blood angels and their succesors from being purged. He's just this dude who was not a prodidgy, or the best ever, or has outrageous feats. He's good at what he does and has earned the respects of everyone, clearly being the right Astartes in the right place despite what everyone thought of him.

The prothecy was written down in 3ed before the Sanguinor had been added to the codex. Personally I despise the addition of the Sanguinor. I like to think that Dante, the oldest and originally fairly average Astartes, will be the one to defend the Emperor at the end.

In game, who would win ? Abaddon or Dante ?
Do you think that GW will use this old prophecy (3ed apparently) for their "End Time" ? They may have forgotten about this or just say "feth it".

Abbadon would eat him alive without a stratch in game and fluff. But Abbadon sucks so who cares


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Plus he has no arms

I wouldn't be surprised if Dante fell and it's Mephiston who ultimately is the golden angel of the prophecy

 King Pariah wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if Dante fell and it's Mephiston who ultimately is the golden angel of the prophecy

Nope. Gabriel Angelos will steal Dante's destiny, the Emperor's armor, and no less than 15 sets of wings from different special characters/FMCs to fulfill the prophecy.

BaconUprising wrote:
Abbadon would eat him alive without a stratch in game and fluff. But Abbadon sucks so who cares


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Plus he has no arms

I'm not so sure you know, in game Dante has Hatred: Abbadon, striking first at I7 with 6 attacks at S7 on the charge against abbadon, hitting on 4's with master crafted and hatred as well as a melta pistol and the ability to reset hatred, gain furious charge reset initiative 7 and reshoot the melta pistol with Hit and Run. Seems if ever there was a space marine who could kill Abbadon, it would be dante. In fluff as well, Abbadon has never fought a space marine with as much experience as Dante. Personally, I think it would be an awesome fight that would see Abbadon victorious, but only by the skin of his teeth.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 godardc wrote:
In game, who would win ? Abaddon or Dante ?
Do you think that GW will use this old prophecy (3ed apparently) for their "End Time" ? They may have forgotten about this or just say "feth it".

I really hope they do use it, It would be a shame as noone deserves that glory more than dante imo.

 godardc wrote:
In game, who would win ? Abaddon or Dante ?
Do you think that GW will use this old prophecy (3ed apparently) for their "End Time" ? They may have forgotten about this or just say "feth it".

5th edition I believe.
Something similar is mentioned in the Grey Knight Codex of the same edition.
A prophecy of an immortal warrior who will at last die at the foot of the golden throne, surrounded by enemies.
It's mentioned in Thawn's fluff, but given Mat wrote both it could well be Dante.

Immortal you say?

Totally John Grammaticus

Cassor the Damned wrote:


I'm not so sure you know, in game Dante has Hatred: Abbadon, striking first at I7 with 6 attacks at S7 on the charge against abbadon, hitting on 4's with master crafted and hatred as well as a melta pistol and the ability to reset hatred, gain furious charge reset initiative 7 and reshoot the melta pistol with Hit and Run. Seems if ever there was a space marine who could kill Abbadon, it would be dante. In fluff as well, Abbadon has never fought a space marine with as much experience as Dante. Personally, I think it would be an awesome fight that would see Abbadon victorious, but only by the skin of his teeth.

Abby hates all SM so that's a wash, hit and run resets both their hatred not just Dantes. And Abby fought a primarch clone in the fluff and won, a clone of the very primarch that tore Sanguinius a new black rage. For all the empty talk about how experienced Dante is Abaddon is literally 10x as experienced being over 9000 years old when Dante got his geneseed.

Abaddon also fought Sigmisund in the 1st crusade (I think), when Sigi was about as old as Dante is now. Abby come out, Sig didn't.

According to my eraser of truth there will be fifteen humans in the final fight against Chaos. The first to die will be the Emperor, the second will be me, and the last one standing will be Dante. It also told me that Dante is actually Kanye West.

 MarsNZ wrote:

Cassor the Damned wrote:


I'm not so sure you know, in game Dante has Hatred: Abbadon, striking first at I7 with 6 attacks at S7 on the charge against abbadon, hitting on 4's with master crafted and hatred as well as a melta pistol and the ability to reset hatred, gain furious charge reset initiative 7 and reshoot the melta pistol with Hit and Run. Seems if ever there was a space marine who could kill Abbadon, it would be dante. In fluff as well, Abbadon has never fought a space marine with as much experience as Dante. Personally, I think it would be an awesome fight that would see Abbadon victorious, but only by the skin of his teeth.

Abby hates all SM so that's a wash, hit and run resets both their hatred not just Dantes. And Abby fought a primarch clone in the fluff and won, a clone of the very primarch that tore Sanguinius a new black rage. For all the empty talk about how experienced Dante is Abaddon is literally 10x as experienced being over 9000 years old when Dante got his geneseed.

I never said he would win, I said if there was ever a space marine who could kill him, it would be dante as he has all the tools to do so. To my knowledge the only other hqs with hatred abbadon are dark angels. And they don't all have 2+/4++ 6 attacks strength 7 initiative 7 ap2 with a melta pistol at BS5 with hit and run. I think Abbadon would win in both fluff and crunch, I'm just saying if anyone ever stood a chance in the 40k incarnation of the game, it would be Dante. Also I read somewhere Sigismund died in one of the earlier black crusades, so he would never have been as old as dante. Ik abbadon is experienced too, but he will never fight anyone as experienced as dante and vice versa. Also, clone horus wasn't buffed by the warp and sanguinius was injured and abbadon wasn't.

 Nerak wrote:

 niv-mizzet wrote:

Engrenages wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
Haven't read the fluff myself, nor I am that versed in the lore of the Blood Angels, but couldn't it be the Sanguinor?

I guess though it possibly being him is the drive that keeps him alive and fighting.

I think GW may pull out a kind of Sigmar/Karl Franz thing once again, and make Dante fuse with the Sanguinor at the darkest hour, and kinda becoming an Avatar of Sanguinius. That would be a bit crappy/easy, but I can totally see them write something like that.

Off-topic, I don't really the fact that every major Chapter Master of the current setting is so the best the chapter has ever seen : Dante and that prophecy, Marneus Calgar whose achievements are second only to Rawbutt Girlyman, Logan whose is the Greatest Space Wolf ever seen since Russ, Lysander (not a chapter master but you get the gak) who is like the second coming of Dorn himself, how Azrael had such a meteoric ascension through the ranks, etc.

Actually Dante was just a mediocre captain with no stellar accomplishments when the chapter took a woodshed beating and he suddenly found himself the highest rank still alive. After that, yeah he managed to live through a lot and become incredibly experienced, but it's definitely not Gary Stu backstory.

This is the reason I like Dante. He is the single oldest living Space marine (blood angel no less, meaning insane discipline) and has been in overall command in warzones several times, once over the a combination of Salamanders, Ultramarines and Blood Angels (with Calgar present). He has the highest stat of any space marine, and he's only still in it because he believes he must for the prophecy, Meaning he's actually thinking of some sort of retirment. He has made some impressive strategical decisions in the past and has managed to keep good diplomatic relations with the Inquisition to keep the blood angels and their succesors from being purged. He's just this dude who was not a prodidgy, or the best ever, or has outrageous feats. He's good at what he does and has earned the respects of everyone, clearly being the right Astartes in the right place despite what everyone thought of him.

The prothecy was written down in 3ed before the Sanguinor had been added to the codex. Personally I despise the addition of the Sanguinor. I like to think that Dante, the oldest and originally fairly average Astartes, will be the one to defend the Emperor at the end.

Cleutin would like a word with you! to bad GW squated him due lacking a proper mini

Cassor the Damned wrote:
Ik abbadon is experienced too, but he will never fight anyone as experienced as dante and vice versa.

He has though, many times. Any half decent Chaos Lord who thinks he has a shot at being the Warmaster is likely a Long War veteran, ancient before Dante was even born, yet Abaddon is still the Warmaster.

 MarsNZ wrote:

Cassor the Damned wrote:
Ik abbadon is experienced too, but he will never fight anyone as experienced as dante and vice versa.

He has though, many times. Any half decent Chaos Lord who thinks he has a shot at being the Warmaster is likely a Long War veteran, ancient before Dante was even born, yet Abaddon is still the Warmaster.

I can see what he's saying though, a chaos lord no matter how old lacks the discipline and fortitude of a loyalist Astarte, combined with over 1000 years experience of managing the rigid chapter structure and all the complications therein. Dante is definitely something exceptional. But I agree he can't touch Abbadon

Tbh, there is definatly fluff to state that Dante can at least wound Abbadon. First, this is a guy who has resisted the call of the black rage for almost 1200 years. He has extreme amounts of disicpline unlike anything Abbadon can comprehend. Also, a Blood Angel Chaplain named Thalastian Jorus managed to mess Abbadon up pretty bad in the 8th Black Crusade (I think). Abbadon still carries the scars of that confrontation to this day. Jorus accomplished this through pure zeal, as Chapter Master, imagine Dante's rage when he stands in the prescense of the weapon that slew Sanguinius. He can at least chop off his arms.

As for crunch:

We're going to assume Dante gets the charge what with the fact he has a jump pack and it will allow him to strike first and he is a BA.

Dante shoots his melta pistol and hits 0.833 times and then wounds 0.694 times with Abbadons invuln turning this into 0.347 wounds. In the BSF Dante attacks first on the charge (he has a jump pack, he's gonna get the charge) and attacks 6 times at S7. This culminates in 3 hits, before Hatred rerolls make it 4.5. S7 means he wounds 3.75 times. Abbadons 4++ invulnerable makes this 1.875 wounds. Plus this to the 0.347 from the infernus pistol and we see he wounds Abbadon 2.22 times on his first turn.

Abbadon gets to overwatch with his bolter and after hits wounds and armour save deals Dante precisely 0.028 wounds. However, in the melee he gets 4 attacks base +1 attack for 2 specialist weapons +1 attack for counter attack and lets assume he rolls a 4 for drachynen. This gives him 10 attacks. (looking bleak for dante) he hits 6.66 times wounds 4.44 times and Dante's invulnerable makes this 2.22 wounds. 2.22 wounds from melee plus the 0.028 from bullets gives Abbadon the slight edge with 2.248 wounds to Dante's 2.22.

Then Dante Hits and Runs and slays Abbadon before he can kill him. (statistically probable) by causing another 2.22 wounds. If Dante fails the Hit and Run, he deals one more wound to Abbadon before death and leaves Abbadon on 1 wound. This is all with Abbadon rolling a 4 on drachynen which is pretty generous,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not to mention Abbadon hits on a 5+ And Dante hits on a 3+ and abbadon loses a wound if he rolls a 1. Tbh, I'm actually starting to convince myself that if I ever run into Abbadon on the tabletop and I have dante, I might just have a pop

This thread got me thinking that Dante giving in to the black rage might just make him the most terrifying warrior the Imperium has.

 Nerak wrote:
This thread got me thinking that Dante giving in to the black rage might just make him the most terrifying warrior the Imperium has.

This.

Cassor the Damned wrote:

 Nerak wrote:
This thread got me thinking that Dante giving in to the black rage might just make him the most terrifying warrior the Imperium has.

This.

If he's going to lose it. It'll be fighting Abbadon infront of the golden throne.

Zwan1One wrote:

Cassor the Damned wrote:

 Nerak wrote:
This thread got me thinking that Dante giving in to the black rage might just make him the most terrifying warrior the Imperium has.

This.

If he's going to lose it. It'll be fighting Abbadon infront of the golden throne.

Dante wrote:No, I'm pretty sure I am Sanguinius and you are Horus.

Maybe all this time the Black Rage was actually the last blessing of Sanguinius, specifically existing so when history came to repeat itself the Blood Angels would this time be at the advantage? Hell, maybe the conditions will be so specific that Dante won't just believe he is Sanguinius, he will actually BECOME Sanguinius?

Sanguinius vs Abbadon would be a hilariously one sided fight

Cassor the Damned wrote:
Tbh, there is definatly fluff to state that Dante can at least wound Abbadon. First, this is a guy who has resisted the call of the black rage for almost 1200 years. He has extreme amounts of disicpline unlike anything Abbadon can comprehend. Also, a Blood Angel Chaplain named Thalastian Jorus managed to mess Abbadon up pretty bad in the 8th Black Crusade (I think). Abbadon still carries the scars of that confrontation to this day. Jorus accomplished this through pure zeal, as Chapter Master, imagine Dante's rage when he stands in the prescense of the weapon that slew Sanguinius. He can at least chop off his arms.

As for crunch:

We're going to assume Dante gets the charge what with the fact he has a jump pack and it will allow him to strike first and he is a BA.

Dante shoots his melta pistol and hits 0.833 times and then wounds 0.694 times with Abbadons invuln turning this into 0.347 wounds. In the BSF Dante attacks first on the charge (he has a jump pack, he's gonna get the charge) and attacks 6 times at S7. This culminates in 3 hits, before Hatred rerolls make it 4.5. S7 means he wounds 3.75 times. Abbadons 4++ invulnerable makes this 1.875 wounds. Plus this to the 0.347 from the infernus pistol and we see he wounds Abbadon 2.22 times on his first turn.

Abbadon gets to overwatch with his bolter and after hits wounds and armour save deals Dante precisely 0.028 wounds. However, in the melee he gets 4 attacks base +1 attack for 2 specialist weapons +1 attack for counter attack and lets assume he rolls a 4 for drachynen. This gives him 10 attacks. (looking bleak for dante) he hits 6.66 times wounds 4.44 times and Dante's invulnerable makes this 2.22 wounds. 2.22 wounds from melee plus the 0.028 from bullets gives Abbadon the slight edge with 2.248 wounds to Dante's 2.22.

Then Dante Hits and Runs and slays Abbadon before he can kill him. (statistically probable) by causing another 2.22 wounds. If Dante fails the Hit and Run, he deals one more wound to Abbadon before death and leaves Abbadon on 1 wound. This is all with Abbadon rolling a 4 on drachynen which is pretty generous,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not to mention Abbadon hits on a 5+ And Dante hits on a 3+ and abbadon loses a wound if he rolls a 1. Tbh, I'm actually starting to convince myself that if I ever run into Abbadon on the tabletop and I have dante, I might just have a pop

Abigail has Hatred which you forgot to mention.

And why is only hitting on a 5?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Cassor the Damned wrote:
Tbh, there is definatly fluff to state that Dante can at least wound Abbadon. First, this is a guy who has resisted the call of the black rage for almost 1200 years. He has extreme amounts of disicpline unlike anything Abbadon can comprehend. Also, a Blood Angel Chaplain named Thalastian Jorus managed to mess Abbadon up pretty bad in the 8th Black Crusade (I think). Abbadon still carries the scars of that confrontation to this day. Jorus accomplished this through pure zeal, as Chapter Master, imagine Dante's rage when he stands in the prescense of the weapon that slew Sanguinius. He can at least chop off his arms.

As for crunch:

We're going to assume Dante gets the charge what with the fact he has a jump pack and it will allow him to strike first and he is a BA.

Dante shoots his melta pistol and hits 0.833 times and then wounds 0.694 times with Abbadons invuln turning this into 0.347 wounds. In the BSF Dante attacks first on the charge (he has a jump pack, he's gonna get the charge) and attacks 6 times at S7. This culminates in 3 hits, before Hatred rerolls make it 4.5. S7 means he wounds 3.75 times. Abbadons 4++ invulnerable makes this 1.875 wounds. Plus this to the 0.347 from the infernus pistol and we see he wounds Abbadon 2.22 times on his first turn.

Abbadon gets to overwatch with his bolter and after hits wounds and armour save deals Dante precisely 0.028 wounds. However, in the melee he gets 4 attacks base +1 attack for 2 specialist weapons +1 attack for counter attack and lets assume he rolls a 4 for drachynen. This gives him 10 attacks. (looking bleak for dante) he hits 6.66 times wounds 4.44 times and Dante's invulnerable makes this 2.22 wounds. 2.22 wounds from melee plus the 0.028 from bullets gives Abbadon the slight edge with 2.248 wounds to Dante's 2.22.

Then Dante Hits and Runs and slays Abbadon before he can kill him. (statistically probable) by causing another 2.22 wounds. If Dante fails the Hit and Run, he deals one more wound to Abbadon before death and leaves Abbadon on 1 wound. This is all with Abbadon rolling a 4 on drachynen which is pretty generous,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not to mention Abbadon hits on a 5+ And Dante hits on a 3+ and abbadon loses a wound if he rolls a 1. Tbh, I'm actually starting to convince myself that if I ever run into Abbadon on the tabletop and I have dante, I might just have a pop

Abigail has Hatred which you forgot to mention.

And why is only hitting on a 5?

Dammit, I swear to God there is nothing more annoying than when you check your message for errors and still get it wrong Abbadon can become ws1 if he rolls a 1 when he attacks with drachynen. This means dante would hit on a 3 and abbadon on a 5. All in all, a pretty fair fight.

Cassor the Damned wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Cassor the Damned wrote:
Tbh, there is definatly fluff to state that Dante can at least wound Abbadon. First, this is a guy who has resisted the call of the black rage for almost 1200 years. He has extreme amounts of disicpline unlike anything Abbadon can comprehend. Also, a Blood Angel Chaplain named Thalastian Jorus managed to mess Abbadon up pretty bad in the 8th Black Crusade (I think). Abbadon still carries the scars of that confrontation to this day. Jorus accomplished this through pure zeal, as Chapter Master, imagine Dante's rage when he stands in the prescense of the weapon that slew Sanguinius. He can at least chop off his arms.

As for crunch:

We're going to assume Dante gets the charge what with the fact he has a jump pack and it will allow him to strike first and he is a BA.

Dante shoots his melta pistol and hits 0.833 times and then wounds 0.694 times with Abbadons invuln turning this into 0.347 wounds. In the BSF Dante attacks first on the charge (he has a jump pack, he's gonna get the charge) and attacks 6 times at S7. This culminates in 3 hits, before Hatred rerolls make it 4.5. S7 means he wounds 3.75 times. Abbadons 4++ invulnerable makes this 1.875 wounds. Plus this to the 0.347 from the infernus pistol and we see he wounds Abbadon 2.22 times on his first turn.

Abbadon gets to overwatch with his bolter and after hits wounds and armour save deals Dante precisely 0.028 wounds. However, in the melee he gets 4 attacks base +1 attack for 2 specialist weapons +1 attack for counter attack and lets assume he rolls a 4 for drachynen. This gives him 10 attacks. (looking bleak for dante) he hits 6.66 times wounds 4.44 times and Dante's invulnerable makes this 2.22 wounds. 2.22 wounds from melee plus the 0.028 from bullets gives Abbadon the slight edge with 2.248 wounds to Dante's 2.22.

Then Dante Hits and Runs and slays Abbadon before he can kill him. (statistically probable) by causing another 2.22 wounds. If Dante fails the Hit and Run, he deals one more wound to Abbadon before death and leaves Abbadon on 1 wound. This is all with Abbadon rolling a 4 on drachynen which is pretty generous,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not to mention Abbadon hits on a 5+ And Dante hits on a 3+ and abbadon loses a wound if he rolls a 1. Tbh, I'm actually starting to convince myself that if I ever run into Abbadon on the tabletop and I have dante, I might just have a pop

Abigail has Hatred which you forgot to mention.

And why is only hitting on a 5?

Dammit, I swear to God there is nothing more annoying than when you check your message for errors and still get it wrong Abbadon can become ws1 if he rolls a 1 when he attacks with drachynen. This means dante would hit on a 3 and abbadon on a 5. All in all, a pretty fair fight.

Also pretty sure you didn't calculate PE for Abigail as he gets it vs Space Marines due to him bring a mandatory Warlord and getting that as a trait.

PE wouldn't be a part of the first round of combat because Abbadon gets Hatred, and you can't reroll a die that has already been rerolled. In the second round of combat it wouldn't matter, because Dante would leave combat and reset both of their Hatred because of Hit and Run.

Cassor the Damned wrote:
PE wouldn't be a part of the first round of combat because Abbadon gets Hatred, and you can't reroll a die that has already been rerolled. In the second round of combat it wouldn't matter, because Dante would leave combat and reset both of their Hatred because of Hit and Run.

It still lets him reroll 1s to wound. Ergo it needs to be calculated.