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 MagicJuggler wrote:
...do we have a more insightful look into how the GW design team thinks?

Every WD batrep ever. I vaguely remember one from 6 or 7 years ago where one of the main devs at the time (possibly Matt Ward) charged five TH/SS Terminators at a massive horde of Genestealers. The batrep text was all like, "the Emperor's Finest shall not be intimidated by these aliens!", then they charged. The inevitable occured, with all five Terminators were smushed at I6, and the batrep is all like, "the aliens vanquished all the mighty Terminators! How unexpected!"

It was at that point I realised GW don't play their games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, this:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
Magnus getting one-shotted by Helfrost

Incoming Traditio thread entitled "OP Helfrost Cheese", or perhaps "Why you should boycott Helfrost weapons", or something like that.

 BBAP wrote:

 MagicJuggler wrote:
...do we have a more insightful look into how the GW design team thinks?

Every WD batrep ever. I vaguely remember one from 6 or 7 years ago where one of the main devs at the time (possibly Matt Ward) charged five TH/SS Terminators at a massive horde of Genestealers. The batrep text was all like, "the Emperor's Finest shall not be intimidated by these aliens!", then they charged. The inevitable occured, with all five Terminators were smushed at I6, and the batrep is all like, "the aliens vanquished all the mighty Terminators! How unexpected!"

It was at that point I realised GW don't play their games.

The precise moment I stopped caring about WD batreps was when there was a reference to a "practice game" that went completely the other way in the Island of Blood intro.

At that point I stopped giving a damn, since I concluded the following:

1-Batreps are intended to showcase the new army to drive sales.
2-They don't care enough to simply lie and pretend they played a game, inventing all facts they state.
3-They don't care enough to remove references to unverifiable attempts that didn't turn out the way they wanted.

Eventually there was a SoB batrep. Their Retributor Squad had some utterly ridiculous loadout, like two multi-meltas, a heavy bolter, and a heavy flamer. The points costs of the army didn't add up correctly either.

Eventually I unsubscribed from WD altogether.


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 BBAP wrote:
Incoming Traditio thread entitled "OP Helfrost Cheese", or perhaps "Why you should boycott Helfrost weapons", or something like that.

As a WoW player I'm familiar with the concept of merging damage types together for unique attacks, and giving it a unique name. Like Frostfire does Frost and Fire damage. Shadowfrost does Shadow and Frost damage.

I'm imagining the combination of damage types needed to call an attack "Hellfrost." Frost, obviously. And Hell is a mix of Shadow and Fire.

So it would do three different types of damage to vanquish an obscenely powerful creature.

Then I remembered Med'an and I realized I hate Hellfrost weapons.

The Thousand Sons Player made some questionable decisions (like not summoning Pink Horrors in a game whose objective is to have a psyker survive til the end, and is using the Tzeentch Warpstorm table, or not using enought mind bullets), and had some not so good roles (causing Magnus to deepstrike twice during the game, and the one role of 6 that would cause Magnus to fail the Strength Test from Helfrost).

It was not a surprise the game ended the way it did.

 mrhappyface wrote:

 pretre wrote:

2/3 Failed Jink

Jink is a 4+ not a 5+, besides Magnua would use his 4++ invul re-rolling 1s rather than his jink.

Did they have anything buffing him in the game? You said they rolled on malefic so if they got cursed earth off he has a 2++ re-rollable, even less chance of Magnus dying from Hellfrost.

Good call. So even more unlikely.

 Pouncey wrote:
...A real-time WH40k game streamed live on Twitch?

That is perhaps the most boring stream I can imagine.


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MadMarkMagee wrote:
They had a fun casual game. Gasps... HOW DARE THEY!!!! MY NECK BEARD IS OFFENDED!

I play fun, casual games.

The rules should not be playtested like that. Period. Serious flaws with the rules are missed and imbalanced combinations are never examined because the playtesters are not interested in seeing where the rules break down, only in having a fun game.

Playtesting is about improving the rules by figuring out where they don't work. You will not encounter situations like that in a casual setting where no one's trying to do anything absurd.

It's a good point... however this game wasn't about playtesting; it was about having fun.

It certainly seems the TSons player had no idea what they were doing from the sounds of it though... at the very least they made some weak tactical decisions.

MadMarkMagee wrote:
They had a fun casual game. Gasps... HOW DARE THEY!!!! MY NECK BEARD IS OFFENDED!

Casual here. Tempestus Scions, Eldar Aspects.. you see where I am coming from.

If I pay good money for codices, I expect that the rules written there being well tested and balanced. THEN, anybody, GW staff included, can modify them to suit the needs.

But to make something work as a "universal language" between people that met for the first time, you need those things worked out easily.

As you can imagine from proposed rules and discussions, not every gamer has the best grasp on rules and worst, there are people that would enforce house rules to gain a clear advantage. I expect GW to play on their own rules because I expect that for them is the best system possible.

GW has shown how they play. MAYBE for playtest they play differently, but seeing how weird, not functional, unbalanced, messy the rules are, one has the suspicion that they are just a bunch of unprofessional hacks that never, ever had the intention or the skill for a proper ruleset.

I do wonder if for 8th edition is the case for the community to ditch them and go in the direction of 9th age.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Can someone explain how Magnus was 1 shot with 7 wounds?

No, they can't.

After some research, it looks like the Helfrost Destructor is a STR8 AP1 weapon with some special rules that can result in a 1-shot if a strength test is failed.

It would be nice if someone could walk me through this combat... I'm very unclear on what happened.

Not sure about the rest, but all Helfrost weapons have a rule where if you suffer a wound, you have to pass a Strength test or be removed from play. Hence why Magnus not being a GMC is fething stupid.

It's also a blast weapon that cant target flying creatures...which magnus would absolutely be flying vs a list that had helfrost weapons. lol.

GW FAQed that skyfire blasts can hit flyers

Avadar wrote:
The Thousand Sons Player made some questionable decisions (like not summoning Pink Horrors in a game whose objective is to have a psyker survive til the end, and is using the Tzeentch Warpstorm table, or not using enought mind bullets), and had some not so good roles (causing Magnus to deepstrike twice during the game, and the one role of 6 that would cause Magnus to fail the Strength Test from Helfrost).

It was not a surprise the game ended the way it did.

They cannot play their own game. This explains a lot.

Someone was expecting GW to let Chaos win even on release of lots of extremely long awaited shiny stuff? Silly people! The Good Guys (tm) must always win crushingly!

 mrhappyface wrote:

 pretre wrote:

2/3 Failed Jink

Jink is a 4+ not a 5+, besides Magnua would use his 4++ invul re-rolling 1s rather than his jink.

Did they have anything buffing him in the game? You said they rolled on malefic so if they got cursed earth off he has a 2++ re-rollable, even less chance of Magnus dying from Hellfrost.

Unless this has been changed in a publication I do not own, but cursed earth targets the psyker, not a unit. So you have to have another psyker shadow magnus by 10-12 inchs. Magnus would also have to get a syphon off on himself or force. So besides this set up, sanctuary and herald with tome and possible fateweaver, there is no way of getting a 2++ rerollable? I am asking because I dont know myself. But I think these are the only methods.


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 SilverMK2 wrote:
Someone was expecting GW to let Chaos win even on release of lots of extremely long awaited shiny stuff? Silly people! The Good Guys (tm) must always win crushingly!

And this. Every chaos player should know that to GW, we exist as two things. Revenue stream and as punching bags for the good guys. It is our role. Embrace it because I do not see this changing.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
It's also a blast weapon that cant target flying creatures...which magnus would absolutely be flying vs a list that had helfrost weapons. lol.

GW FAQed that skyfire blasts can hit flyers

Helfire destructor can fire in blast or single shot.

Magnus would have to have a sorceror baby sitting him with cursed earth but he would only require cursed earth for the +2 to invul because he is being affected by a blessing.

MadMarkMagee wrote:
They had a fun casual game. Gasps... HOW DARE THEY!!!! MY NECK BEARD IS OFFENDED!

Yeah, feth those people who want the company that makes the game to actually know the rules of the game they make...

 Kaiyanwang wrote:


They cannot play their own game. This explains a lot.

I've been saying this for ages.

People say "new units are OP to get sales" but there are plenty of new units that are garbage as well. They simply don't understand the rules well enough to make units good or bad on purpose.

Take Grav. They made it great against MCs and weak against vehicles. It's a good idea. Then someone says "it should immobilise the vehicle though, that'd be cool and fluffy." I do not believe for a minute that they considered the extra HPs for subsequent immobilise results.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:


They cannot play their own game. This explains a lot.

I've been saying this for ages.

People say "new units are OP to get sales" but there are plenty of new units that are garbage as well. They simply don't understand the rules well enough to make units good or bad on purpose.

Take Grav. They made it great against MCs and weak against vehicles. It's a good idea. Then someone says "it should immobilise the vehicle though, that'd be cool and fluffy." I do not believe for a minute that they considered the extra HPs for subsequent immobilise results.

Agree. I remember when they put "gets hot" on the Hot-Shot lasguns when the tempestus first came out. They are called Hot-Shot so they get's hot, right? is not that the first time the "gets hot" on plasma was a nowadays obsolete balance mechanism. It just "sounded" right. And I must be happy they patched it. Like, the day after. Is pathetic.

What really makes me shocked in disbelief is their bosses. These hack frauds managed to break whole edition (Ward with WHFB 7th edition, Daemons) made armies unplayable (Cruddace, once for WHFB and once for 40k, minimum) and yet none ever told hem to get their stuff together. Just think about how many less models Forgeworld sold because of the new 6th edition IG codex.

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

Avadar wrote:
The Thousand Sons Player made some questionable decisions (like not summoning Pink Horrors in a game whose objective is to have a psyker survive til the end, and is using the Tzeentch Warpstorm table, or not using enought mind bullets), and had some not so good roles (causing Magnus to deepstrike twice during the game, and the one role of 6 that would cause Magnus to fail the Strength Test from Helfrost).

It was not a surprise the game ended the way it did.

They cannot play their own game. This explains a lot.

To be fair, I'm not sure the players were GW employees. In fact the commentators (who were GW employees) were on point saying that not summoning more daemons was a bad move; and were wondering why not much was happening in the Psychic phase. They even stopped the game for a moment to ask what happened in the Psychic Phase. The rest was just bad rolling, which can happen to all of us.

I just remember a WD battle report when the Ork Dex dropped. The dude had a unit of Mek Guns, and each one was different. I think it was a Kannon, Lobba and Bubble Chucka? i think. Anyway, those guns have no business being in a unit together. To make it all worse, they played at 2000 points and one dude was like 100 points under and the other guy was like 50 points under. It was painful to look at, like seriously, they couldnt even do basic list building.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:


They cannot play their own game. This explains a lot.

I've been saying this for ages.

People say "new units are OP to get sales" but there are plenty of new units that are garbage as well. They simply don't understand the rules well enough to make units good or bad on purpose.

Take Grav. They made it great against MCs and weak against vehicles. It's a good idea. Then someone says "it should immobilise the vehicle though, that'd be cool and fluffy." I do not believe for a minute that they considered the extra HPs for subsequent immobilise results.

Meanwhile at PP one of their playtesters recently used an army containing 26 Reptile Hounds to fully stress test them in a play test environment.

So, yeah GW...

 Kaiyanwang wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:


They cannot play their own game. This explains a lot.

I've been saying this for ages.

People say "new units are OP to get sales" but there are plenty of new units that are garbage as well. They simply don't understand the rules well enough to make units good or bad on purpose.

Take Grav. They made it great against MCs and weak against vehicles. It's a good idea. Then someone says "it should immobilise the vehicle though, that'd be cool and fluffy." I do not believe for a minute that they considered the extra HPs for subsequent immobilise results.

Agree. I remember when they put "gets hot" on the Hot-Shot lasguns when the tempestus first came out. They are called Hot-Shot so they get's hot, right? is not that the first time the "gets hot" on plasma was a nowadays obsolete balance mechanism. It just "sounded" right. And I must be happy they patched it. Like, the day after. Is pathetic.

What really makes me shocked in disbelief is their bosses. These hack frauds managed to break whole edition (Ward with WHFB 7th edition, Daemons) made armies unplayable (Cruddace, once for WHFB and once for 40k, minimum) and yet none ever told hem to get their stuff together. Just think about how many less models Forgeworld sold because of the new 6th edition IG codex.

Honestly, creative has needed a proper clean up for years. To bad it wont come until it is to late, if ever.

Table wrote:

Honestly, creative has needed a proper clean up for years. To bad it wont come until it is to late, if ever.

They were recruiting for creative last year.

With what they're paying they'll struggle to get anyone good.

How did the gray hunters assault from a rhino? That's not a thing in this edition.

OP Grey Hunter Cheese, I guess.

 Traditio wrote:
How did the gray hunters assault from a rhino? That's not a thing in this edition.

Probably GW forgetting their own rules.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 Traditio wrote:
How did the gray hunters assault from a rhino? That's not a thing in this edition.

Probably GW forgetting their own rules.

Wouldn't be the first time... Though I just hope it's in reality them mixing 7th and 8th, and they've returned the ability to charge out from vehicles again.

Didn't someone mention earlier that the Rhinos were destroyed in the previous turn, which would allow the Grey Hunters to charge in the current turn?

They still can't charge.

Oh yeah.
I play daemons and none of my opponents run assault units in Rhinos so *shrug*.

They couldn't have summoned horrors. Nobody (not even GW) has enough blues & brimstones, so they would have been stuck when one of the pinks got shot.

What a mess.
I think they should stop releasing such videos. That's utterly garbage.
What should be the message with those videos. Every medium player can do it better?

Ruin wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Kaiyanwang wrote:


They cannot play their own game. This explains a lot.

I've been saying this for ages.

People say "new units are OP to get sales" but there are plenty of new units that are garbage as well. They simply don't understand the rules well enough to make units good or bad on purpose.

Take Grav. They made it great against MCs and weak against vehicles. It's a good idea. Then someone says "it should immobilise the vehicle though, that'd be cool and fluffy." I do not believe for a minute that they considered the extra HPs for subsequent immobilise results.

Meanwhile at PP one of their playtesters recently used an army containing 26 Reptile Hounds to fully stress test them in a play test environment.

So, yeah GW...

I'm now interested how that game turned out!