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I can see canticles of the archmagos getting ruled either way however I'm leaning toward it is used exactly as canticles of the omnissiah and you are still only able to use 1 canticle at a time.

But this isn't my call so before anyone goes to lvo next month and try's arguing it for thier favor they might want to get a quick interim ruling before hand.

gungo wrote:

 Colpicklejar wrote:

 Gamgee wrote:
This boosts Deathwatch a lot since it solves their low numbers issue.

Deathwatch are not included, nor are grey knights.


Going to have to say, I think this book is the first big misstep in a while. I thought GW had done well making the factions feel distinct in the past while. Now we're back to the days where Coteaz was showing up everywhere and among all factions, only now it's Celestine.

She's durable but hardly auto include for any imperial tournament unless you are dying for some ap3 melee. She isn't even a good tarpit unit because str6 ap3 melee spam will wipe her unit and her out fast.

Not really, couple of things 1, it would take 5ish (5/(12x.667x.833x.1667) scatt packs on average to kill just her, let alone the geminii. AP3 only matters to the geminii as she is 2+4++, the geminii still get a 4++. It is completely impossible to kill her in a single round in a cost effective way.

But the biggest thing, and the thing people forget, is that absolutely no one WANTS to shoot at her because A) it now takes 2 riptides worth of fire power to put her down and B) she comes back to life. You never run her on her own anyway. Her buffs+ H&R plus 14 ap3 attacks on the charge+fearless+14 wounds minimum mean you put her in a deathstar and make your opponent feel bad about themselves.

Put her in a T5 unit and up those odds a bit. not to mention you put the Gemini 6+ inches away and use LOS shenanigans to put wounds on the chumps and only put them on the Gems when StC would actually take a wound.

 pretre wrote:
Put her in a T5 unit and up those odds a bit. not to mention you put the Gemini 6+ inches away and use LOS shenanigans to put wounds on the chumps and only put them on the Gems when StC would actually take a wound.

And people who don't use celestine much never really get just how much it messes with the hyper efficient tournament mindset to have a unit come back from the grave at full strength. I've won games because my opponent refused to put in enough firepower to put her down permanently and I made it into his backlines and started rolling up troop squads.

So the new Ad mech detachment has been designed to exclude FW stuff, no longer interested.

When has a GW detachment ever specifically included FW stuff?

Anyone else notice Saint Celestine doesn't actually have AoF?

Does the new formation mean that I can take different chapter tactics for all of my marines?

Even so, can I use clan ruukan to run buffed captai?

 Zumikito wrote:
Does the new formation mean that I can take different chapter tactics for all of my marines?

Even so, can I use clan ruukan to run buffed captai?

Celestine 2 units of battle sisters in immolators, 3 units of Melta Dominions in Immolators CM SmashFether and an IH command squad and a libcon fit perfectly into 1850. Edit: Needs 4 units of troops minimum so I'd drop one unit somewhere for 2 units of scouts, might need to balance the points back out somewhere else to keep SoB as primary but we all have to make sacrifices.

So is it safe to assume that if they redo Abbadon for the next book he is going to be totally op bonkers based on the rules for the triumvirate?

Soo,

taking the Castellans of the Imperium Formation.
Do Designated Transport count towards the Troop reroll ?
If so: Go for Crusadersquads with Landraiders

When I get my Celestine I'm going to sound chip her base so I can play Mercy's "Heros never die!" when ever she resurrects her self or one of the Geminae.

Loopstah wrote:
So is it safe to assume that if they redo Abbadon for the next book he is going to be totally op bonkers based on the rules for the triumvirate?

66% shot. If he gets written like Celestine or Cawl yes, if he follows greyfax then feth no.

Based on the wording from the leaks, no you don't get the transport back again. So you get the unit back on a 5+ but it's footslogging from your deployment zone back up the field.

Probably best with Scouts to outflank back in, pity it doesn't work with Grey Knight Terminators.

So you still can't put non-SM in pods, since they are technically different factions still within the castellan list.

At least they (accidentally, probably) headed some cheese off.

Lanlaorn wrote:
Based on the wording from the leaks, no you don't get the transport back again...

Why not? Quoting the rulebook:

Dedicated Transports

Sometimes a unit entry will include a transport option, allowing a vehicle to be selected together with the unit. These Dedicated Transports do not use up a slot on the force organisation chart, but count as having the same role as the unit they were bought for all other rules purposes.

For example, a Rhino bought for a Space Marine Tactical Squad (troops) counts as a unit of troops, but one bought for a unit of Space Marine Sternguard Veteran Squad (elites) counts as elites.

According to this, a dedicated transport is a unit of troops. The rules from the leak states that:

Each time a Troops unit from this Detachment is completely destroyed, roll a D6. On a 5+, you can immediately place a new unit into Ongoing Reserves that is identical, in terms of the original number of models, weapons and upgrades, to the unit that was just destroyed. This new unit counts as being part of the original detachment, so roll a D6 as described above if they are subsequently destroyed. Victory points are awarded as normal for new units in this detachment that have been completely destroyed.

A dedicated transport would be a troops unit from the detachment, no?

The other question is when do you get the transport back. Say the squad dies but the drop pod is still alive on the board. I buy that the drop pod is "troops" for all game purposes, but it hasn't died yet. So I don't think you can roll for another pod.

ERJAK wrote:
Anyone else notice Saint Celestine doesn't actually have AoF?

Yeah - this seems like a huge oversight. Maybe someone could please post her rules from the Cadian book just to check if they are worded any differently?

As it stands, if she joined a unit of Seraphim then they wouldn't be allowed to use their act of faith...

Loopstah wrote:
So is it safe to assume that if they redo Abbadon for the next book he is going to be totally op bonkers based on the rules for the triumvirate?

Seeing GW's rulewriters make up rules pretty much randomly throwing broken stuff and underpowered junk with no clear logic...No. Could be totally worthless piece of junk as well.

What i see is ridiculous new rules and units for IoM( like they needed it), but no formations for the real Heroes of Cadias War, CSM...

A Cadia book without any CSM in it while we're the winners, baffles me...

Just got traitors hate and traitor Legions.

Complains about no new content.

Chaos players.

 Crazyterran wrote:
Just got traitors hate and traitor Legions.

Complains about no new content.

Chaos players.

Everyone also seems to be forgetting that this is first in a series.

I expect Chaos and Guard willl show up in another "Fall of Cadia" book.

 Nostromodamus wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
Just got traitors hate and traitor Legions.

Complains about no new content.

Chaos players.

Everyone also seems to be forgetting that this is first in a series.

I expect Chaos and Guard willl show up in another "Fall of Cadia" book.

Guard are already in this book though...

Since the next book is going to have an updated Abaddon model, I imagine there will be some new formations to plug him into, especially if another Chaos character comes along with it.

And if we count Imperial characters as something for all imperial armies, well, the Chaos armies are getting an amazing new LoC model and some more lesser daemons.

 Crazyterran wrote:
... traitors hate...

"New Content"

HA!

Just out of curiosity, whats the cheapest troop choice you could get for the Castellans of the Imperium Detachment?

Scouts maybe?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
... traitors hate...

"New Content"

HA!

Where could all of the Legion detachments, Warlord Traits, and Relics be found prior to this? Or the Nurgle or Slaanesh formations? What book?

Traitor Legions was CSM's Angels of Death. Except it had more new content than AoD.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
... traitors hate...

"New Content"

HA!

Where could all of the Legion detachments, Warlord Traits, and Relics be found prior to this? Or the Nurgle or Slaanesh formations? What book?

Traitor Legions was CSM's Angels of Death. Except it had more new content than AoD.

Non of which was in Traitors Hate so his HA stands.

Besides which all the new suff was fluffy and nice to have but pales in comparison to the 3 new IoM char which includes a warhound stand in(actually Cawl is harder to kill), a greater deamon of the emperor and the other one(Inq have to be crap it's company policy).

SeanDrake wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
... traitors hate...

"New Content"

HA!

Where could all of the Legion detachments, Warlord Traits, and Relics be found prior to this? Or the Nurgle or Slaanesh formations? What book?

Traitor Legions was CSM's Angels of Death. Except it had more new content than AoD.

Non of which was in Traitors Hate so his HA stands.

Besides which all the new suff was fluffy and nice to have but pales in comparison to the 3 new IoM char which includes a warhound stand in(actually Cawl is harder to kill), a greater deamon of the emperor and the other one(Inq have to be crap it's company policy).

Fall of Cadia is the first book in a series. They can't stuff everything in one place. This book has the Imperial stuff. The next one will likely have the Chaos stuff.

Cawl is a warhound stand in with his 12" gun and 6" movement? Not to mention a refractor is a 5+ invuln, unless it's different in CM.

Warhound stand in. Good one. Luls.