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If anyone missed the Warhammer TV preview, I did a little write up of it. Oh, and screenshots at https://ttgamingdiary.wordpress.com/2016/12/21/preview-disciples-of-tzeentch/ (you are going to want to see them ).




Well, the new Warhammer TV channel on Twitch has just done its preview of the next Battletome to come out for Age of Sigmar and… it looks very good, actually!



The first thing to note – yes, that is a Lord of Change on the front cover.

OMG, plastic LOC confirmed!

This looks like it is going to be one of the meatier Battletomes so far, weighing in at 136 pages and, apparently, about half of the book is dedicated to rules – not just Warscrolls (many of which look like they are going to be brand new, more on that in a bit) and Battleplans as before, but rules for Matched Play (including points, they will be in the book too, no waiting for General’s Handbook 2) and Narrative Play (yay!).

An example of this was previewed, with Tzeentchian tables for the Path to Glory campaign.

And already we can see some new goodies popping up, such as the Tzaangor Shaman and Tzaangor Enlightened…

The central thrust of this book is that it is not Battletome: Arcanites, but a Battletome for every force based around the Keyword Tzeentch. So, you will find a happy hunting ground here for not only Arcanites but also Tzeentch Daemons and Slaves to Darkness/mortal forces that are using the Tzeentch Keyword.

Basically, if you are even slightly interested in Tzeentch, this is going to be the book for you…

We had a quick peek at the Traits for Tzeentch forces too…

… which have brought Destiny Dice into Age of Sigmar! In a nutshell, you roll nine dice at the start of the battle and can substitute them for dice rolls throughout the game, guaranteeing a spell, charge, or attack goes off just when you need it.

Command Traits, as you can see, are split between Daemon, Arcanite and Mortal, meaning you won’t just have A N Other Tzeentch forces, but can personalise them at a more fundamental level, which is nice to see as it means not all Tzeentch armies on the table will all be the same.

The first three traits on the tables are (more or less) the same (everything is Tzeentch after all, but it looks like the bottom half of the tables get more specific.

And then there are the spells.

Tzeentch forces will have access to two new Lores, the Lore of Fate (for everyone) and the Lore of Change (for Daemons). The Gaunt Summoner, notably, has access to both Lores, making him a very flexible spellcaster now – expect to see more of him on competitive table tops!

In fact, given that many Tzeentch units are spellcasters, this spread will make Tzeentch armies very powerful spellcasters in the hero phase, even (or especially) when the Rule of One is in effect. And, of course, what does not evaporate in the hero phase from spells will get blown away by magical fire in the shooting phase.

It looks like Tzeentch just got very powerful on the tabletop…

Some artwork was previewed as well, such as this piece with a Tzeentch Sorcerer Lord fighting a Battlemage:

And Horrors giving the Ironjawz a good bashing (or it may be the other way round):

There was also the tiniest of peeks on Warscroll Battalions:

And one for Daemons:

And I think everyone has seen this already, one of the new models:

What you might not have seen yet is the Warscroll for this beastie:

Some of the week’s earlier previews also had Tzaangors floating about on discs in the far background. Those are most certainly a thing:

Check out that bow…

That was about all we gleaned for the new Battletome, but there were some the bits and pieces about what is coming afterwards.


The Future of Age of Sigmar
First up, this Battletome marks the start of Tzeentch’s big push into the Mortal Realms. Up to now, Khorne and Nurgle have been the main powers of Chaos making their play, but Tzeentch (we can now see) has been working hard in the background, getting all his plans together. 2017 sees the forces of Tzeentch make their move.

To begin with, this will mean a multi-week release for Tzeentch. We are not just getting the odd Tzaangor and Acolyte but several new units (including, surely, a Lord of Change, though this was not confirmed – but come on, there is a huge one on the front cover of this book!).

Oh, our poor wallets.

However, I also very much got the impression that the campaign books (presuming they are still part of the picture) will have a Tzeentch focus, as the Realmgate Wars stayed close to Khorne and Nurgle.

There was also a note that in Age of Sigmar material in 2017 we will see a lot more information about how the Mortal Realms work and the ‘normal’ settlements and peoples present (cities and markets were mentioned).

Make of that what you will.

Anyway, a big thumbs up to Warhammer TV – this was exactly how to handle a preview like this; show some goodies, make a big hint about something else (Lord of Change), and then tell us to wait just a short while for everything else.

I don’t know about you, but I am going to be making sure that I have enough blue paints for the New Year!

Nice. I really wish it wasn't such a ball buster to get games of AoS in for me.

Do you think we're going to see them do this for Nurgle and Slannesh as well? Traitor Legion followed by AoS. I know slightly off topic but...

In case you've not seen it, Lady Atia has posted a lot of information both HERE and HERE on War of Sigmar.

MongooseMatt wrote:

There was also a note that in Age of Sigmar material in 2017 we will see a lot more information about how the Mortal Realms work and the ‘normal’ settlements and peoples present (cities and markets were mentioned).

Woo!

(I'm not much of a tzeentch fan, but this part is exciting to me!)

I'm a thousand sons player in 40k. Not really interested in tzeentch in fantasy. I'll pick this up because I collect AOS books and like all the rules so i can better write campaigns, but i'm not interested in bird cultists lol.

Now if they throw in some chaos warrior sculpts and a more mortal look that is not beastmen in appearance, I could change my mind.

The new lord of change though will be added to my collection.

I'm liking this release. Normally a Nurgle Guy, but I could see myself making a force with those Disc riders and some Chaos Knights for a fast, murdery army.

The battletome is a day 1 buy for sure, but I have to stay strong and not spend money on plastic crack right now. Still hoping this book has more mortal models than just the Kairoc Acolytes.

I have to admit this is a little discouraging to me. I recognize that we don't have a lot of important information yet but some of the previewed stuff looks like it could easily reach Mat Ward levels of brokenness. The dice of fate thing is especially troubling. Can you substitute ANY die rolls (including your opponent's)? Do you substitute before the roll or after?

Depending on the exact wording of the rules I fear that this could basically guarantee that all of the key rolls in a game go your way, especially if you can change your opponent's rolls as well. At least they can't be used to guarantee double turns.

Then you've got the new disc riding tzaangors which are arguably better than kurnoth hunters... a lot will depend on their actual point cost, of course, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them at a similar price point.

swarmofseals wrote:
I have to admit this is a little discouraging to me. I recognize that we don't have a lot of important information yet but some of the previewed stuff looks like it could easily reach Mat Ward levels of brokenness. The dice of fate thing is especially troubling. Can you substitute ANY die rolls (including your opponent's)? Do you substitute before the roll or after?

Depending on the exact wording of the rules I fear that this could basically guarantee that all of the key rolls in a game go your way, especially if you can change your opponent's rolls as well. At least they can't be used to guarantee double turns.

Then you've got the new disc riding tzaangors which are arguably better than kurnoth hunters... a lot will depend on their actual point cost, of course, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them at a similar price point.

The news and rumors thread shows a partial picture of the rule. It must be used before the roll is made, and you are limited on what types of rolls it can be used for. I remember seeing to hit, to wound, charge distance, and casting/unbinding rolls, but the list was cut off, so there are likely more rolls it can be used on.

These look exciting. I very nearly jump on the band wagon for the Thousand Sons release. I was hoping something like this would happen for AoS. Very cool.

swarmofseals wrote:
I have to admit this is a little discouraging to me. I recognize that we don't have a lot of important information yet but some of the previewed stuff looks like it could easily reach Mat Ward levels of brokenness. The dice of fate thing is especially troubling. Can you substitute ANY die rolls (including your opponent's)? Do you substitute before the roll or after?

Depending on the exact wording of the rules I fear that this could basically guarantee that all of the key rolls in a game go your way, especially if you can change your opponent's rolls as well. At least they can't be used to guarantee double turns.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/711817.page#9091559

Stupid question. Just because something is on the cover, how is that confirmation that what ever is on the cover will be done in plastic? Is this just wishing or actual fact?

I would just hate to see someone say "confirmation" if it doesn't happen. I think that has been said before, so that is why I am asking. I know there was rumours to a plastic Lord of Change but how does this confirm it?

Davor wrote:
Stupid question. Just because something is on the cover, how is that confirmation that what ever is on the cover will be done in plastic? Is this just wishing or actual fact?

I would just hate to see someone say "confirmation" if it doesn't happen. I think that has been said before, so that is why I am asking. I know there was rumours to a plastic Lord of Change but how does this confirm it?

It's not because of the book cover,GW outright confirmed it when they were talking about the book and its contents.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

It's not because of the book cover,GW outright confirmed it when they were talking about the book and its contents.

Thank you. So I read it wrong. I thought he was going off by the cover. Great to know that they actually said that. Since he didn't say that they said it, I didn't know. I am not very net savvy so not sure how these things work on the internet.

swarmofseals wrote:
I have to admit this is a little discouraging to me. I recognize that we don't have a lot of important information yet but some of the previewed stuff looks like it could easily reach Mat Ward levels of brokenness. The dice of fate thing is especially troubling. Can you substitute ANY die rolls (including your opponent's)? Do you substitute before the roll or after?

Depending on the exact wording of the rules I fear that this could basically guarantee that all of the key rolls in a game go your way, especially if you can change your opponent's rolls as well. At least they can't be used to guarantee double turns.

Then you've got the new disc riding tzaangors which are arguably better than kurnoth hunters... a lot will depend on their actual point cost, of course, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them at a similar price point.

It all hinges on the costs, really. But regardless of how that turns out it looks like every type of AoS will get oodles of content, I am certainly excited!

swarmofseals wrote:
I have to admit this is a little discouraging to me. I recognize that we don't have a lot of important information yet but some of the previewed stuff looks like it could easily reach Mat Ward levels of brokenness. The dice of fate thing is especially troubling. Can you substitute ANY die rolls (including your opponent's)? Do you substitute before the roll or after?

Depending on the exact wording of the rules I fear that this could basically guarantee that all of the key rolls in a game go your way, especially if you can change your opponent's rolls as well. At least they can't be used to guarantee double turns.

Then you've got the new disc riding tzaangors which are arguably better than kurnoth hunters... a lot will depend on their actual point cost, of course, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them at a similar price point.

I don't think it's going to be broken. Since you need to be keyword Tzeentch to get the bonuses, it prevents things like you get in 40k where you would just take the best parts and slap in other armies. There also isn't any defensive power like Invis, Endurance, or FMCs with Swoop in the game, and Tzeentch units are made out of paper - save for perhaps Slaves to Darkness who have the MoTz.

For the roll, I believe they specifically said you can't use it on your opponents. You can use them to change the following roll types: Casting, Unbinding, Run, Charge, Hit, Wound, Save, Damage, and Battleshock. Choose to use a dice before you roll.

Skyfires will be interesting - I don't think they'll outshine Kurnoth Hunters, but will be comparable. Less range, only 1 attack, less wounds, worse save, absolutely garbage in combat, but way way faster. It will be an extremely finesse army, where positioning will matter a lot, as will pre-game planning. Which is good, that's how Tzeentch should play imo.


The one thing that has me slightly miffed is that the points are in the Battletome for the new stuff. It kinda sucks for people who want to use them outside of the Tzeentch alliance but don't want to buy the whole book. Also, what's going to happen when TGH2 comes out? Will the costs be the same or will one override? Could be confusing.

We don't know that there will be a GHB2. Or if there is, if it will contain points for everything in the game or just the new stuff that came out up until then.

We really won't know much about it until the GHB2 either doesn't happen or it comes out and we see how they did it.

They've already confirmed somewhere that TGH will be a yearly (or at least regular) release. I think they'd be crazy not to continue to put points in there, especially with how long it's going to take to put the entire range in battletomes (and how squatted armies still need points).

But you're right, we won't know more until, well, we know it.

 auticus wrote:
We don't know that there will be a GHB2. Or if there is, if it will contain points for everything in the game or just the new stuff that came out up until then.

We really won't know much about it until the GHB2 either doesn't happen or it comes out and we see how they did it.

Considering they've asked for feedback on the second iteration of the General's Handbook, we do know that there's will be a new version barring any unforeseen circumstances.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/709106.page

Worst case scenario they are broken and can just take a place next to all the other things that are broken. It's not like matched play has a lack of unbalanced options ATM, so players should already have a decent grip on fielding armies of appropriate strength for their group. Though I may be biased towards apathy since I have a fallback army that I can pull out if someone at my flgs tries to pull something.

More pics have been posted on Warhammer Community:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/12/21/looking-forward-to-tzaanuary/

swarmofseals wrote:
I have to admit this is a little discouraging to me. I recognize that we don't have a lot of important information yet but some of the previewed stuff looks like it could easily reach Mat Ward levels of brokenness. The dice of fate thing is especially troubling. Can you substitute ANY die rolls (including your opponent's)? Do you substitute before the roll or after?

Depending on the exact wording of the rules I fear that this could basically guarantee that all of the key rolls in a game go your way, especially if you can change your opponent's rolls as well. At least they can't be used to guarantee double turns.

Then you've got the new disc riding tzaangors which are arguably better than kurnoth hunters... a lot will depend on their actual point cost, of course, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them at a similar price point.

I strongly disagree with your kurnoth hunters comparison. The tzaangors have less wounds, a weaker save, shorter range, and half the attacks. If they are some how half the point cost then I would be inclined to agree with you but if they were to cost the same points I would find that more than fair, but again this is all speculation.

The Tzaangor Skyfires move over three times faster than the Kurnoth Hunters and can Fly.

6s to hit also convert the attack to d3 mortals. The reality is they aren't as comparable to kurnoths as they initially seem.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
6s to hit also convert the attack to d3 mortals. The reality is they aren't as comparable to kurnoths as they initially seem.

Which is good! I like when something isn't exactly 1/1 with another model as some seem to complain about for AoS.

From the News & Rumors thread...

Er is that allowed to be up? I am not sure.

 shinros wrote:
Er is that allowed to be up? I am not sure.

That's between Games Workshop, YouTube and the user who posted the video.

Ghaz wrote:More pics have been posted on Warhammer Community:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/12/21/looking-forward-to-tzaanuary/

Good job GW. That is how you do previews. I have been harsh on GW so I think it's fair I give them their due when they do good or great.

----------------------------------------------------------

That YouTube video, I can barley hear it. Is it my computer or I did something wrong or is it like for everyone?

Yeah, if the destiny dice can't change opponent rolls then it's much more fair. That way at least low rolls on your destiny dice will be less useful.


As far as all the flack I am getting in my Kurnoth Hunters/Skyfire comparison, I think you guys are really underestimating the Skyfires. I hear a lot of people saying they are garbage in close combat or that they "only get one attack" for shooting. If you do the actual math though, you will find that once you factor in the bonuses, their average wounds caused in melee is only a little bit lower than close combat Kurnoths and their average damage caused by shooting is only a little bit lower than the damage caused by greatbow Kurnoths.

They are absolutely NOT awful in close combat, and the mortal wounds on a 6+ (5+ if near a sorc, and that's assuming there are no other hit buffs) actually make quite a big difference on the shooting.

Kurnoths do have better range on their shooting and are definitely tougher, but the Skyfire dudes are *absurdly* maneuverable. I think arguments can be made either way as to which of these characteristics is more important.

At the end of the day, as long as you can keep those buffs active I think people will find that these dudes are like 85% of bow kurnoths combined with 85% of melee kurnoths trading off some durability for incredible speed.