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Basically as the title says. What do you all think is the best way to build around Magnus? I'm thinking he can genuinely compete with the best of em between his d beam and the ability to guarantee a chariot every turn, but needs the right support.

Here's what I was thinking:

Oracles
Fateweaver
LoC: Robes, 2x greater, lesser, ML3

CAD:
Tzerald: ML3, Paradox, Disc

11 Blue Horrors
11 Blue Horrors
11 Blue Horrors
11 Blue Horrors

CSM CAD:
Sorceror: Mark of Tzeentch

Cultists: Mark of Tzeentch
Cultists: Mark of Tzeentch

Magnus

The problem is that Magnus isn't really worth 650 points, let alone the 845 you need to spend to get him with his blessing ability. Regardless, I don't think having Fateweaver in the same list is a good idea since they're both dice hogs but Magnus makes better use of them and fatey is poor value as a dice generator. It also means that you've got almost 1000 points stuck in 2 FMC's that basicaly never want to land and as such, can't even claim objectives and your ground forces are pretty pathetic and will be easily overrun.

The LoC is a nice beatstick to be sure, but he's going to struggle to get his powers off. You've got 24 +d6 dice by my count but paradox takes 5 and Magnus is going to want 20'ish too. Even with siphon, Magnus is going to eat a lot of your base dice, leaving fatey and the LoC with limited ability to make use of their powers. I'd be looking to get a heralds anarchic formation in there for sure, and given that they're the cheapest WC battery in the game now, I think that they're virtually mandatory in any list with Magnus since even if you give one Paradox, they're still generating more dice than they consume. Another Herald and a unit of horrors as a bunker is also something to consider, but at that point, you're starting to rack up points pretty fast and you're not leaving much room to add something killy.

All fair points. Especially about Fateweaver's synergy with the list especially since it doesn't even have or really need the Grimoire. I was just excited to use the Oracles formation but failed to consider how it got with the list.

What about this?

Heralds Anarchic

Tzerald: ML3, Disc, Paradox
Tzerald
Tzerald
Tzerald

Daemon CAD

LoC: Impossible robe, ML3, 2x Greater, Lesser

11x Blue Horrors
11x Blue Horrors
11x Blue Horrors
11x Blue Horrors

3x Screamers
4x Screamers

CSM CAD
Sorceror: Mark of Tzeentch

Cultists: Mark of Tzeentch
Cultists: Mark of Tzeentch

Magnus

Yes the ground forces are still rather paltry, but they're not going anywhere too terribly fast thanks to Split and smart use of cover. The two units of Screamers act as screens or harassment depending on the opposing list and now it starts with 27 WC and one less WC hog. The base Heralds still make for decent toolboxes since as per the FAQ they'll get Flickering Fire in addition to either the Primaris from either Malefic or Divination as well as whatever power you roll from the respective table.
Every turn you're looking at adding either a unit of 5 Hounds, 3 Screamers or 3 Plague Drones, and either a Chariot or 3 Flamers. Offensively Magnus is laying down a D Beam, either FF or the nova power, and a second D shot, or Doombolt. Siphon magic for more WC and +1 invuln defensively, and all the LoC really needs is Cursed Earth.

I'd be very tempted to make the LoC my Warlord and fish for the +1 invulnerable power to all Tz Daemons within 9". That bumps Magnus to a 2++ as long as he gets Siphon off and it'll help out if you're not going first since it's always "on" and you don't have to cast it. Also means you don't have to rely on cursed earth for your 2++rr1's on the LoC either. Having said that, Magnus would be pretty difficult to kill here unless they alpha him off the board, so making him warlord has less chance of giving up your warlord point, especially if someone thinks about things for a second and takes the sanctic primaris. Ld9 is good, but not something you want to test on every time a wound slips through,

Other than that, I think the list is about as solid as it's going to get. I still don't think Magnus is worth it, but I'll be interested to hear how you get on with this list.

Maybe consider dropping a single screamer for a second mastery level on the Tz Sorceror so he can make 1 roll on telepathy?

I like to think of Magnus as a Tz DP + FW rolled into 1 model with Iron Arm on all the time. Otherwise, I agree with everything Drasius is saying.

It will get quite sick if you do get the +1 invul WL trait on the LoC. Having both Beatstick MCs with a 2++ re-rollable will mean you can keep them on the ground and wreck stuff in cc if needed.

I like this.

Demonic incursion

Daemon lord - FW

Warpflame Host
lvl 2 Herald
3x11 Pink Horror
6x Exalted flames

Daemon Flock
5 Furries

CSM CAD
Sorceror, MoT
2x10 Cultists MoT

Magnus


I like it because it still gets the warpstorm shenanigans that can't really hurt you. The real power of your army is 2 FMC that are very good at seeking out anything with a chance to destroy them. Then once you have done sufficient damage - you land with magnus and obliterate whats left in CC.

My list is somewhat similar, with the goal to squeezing more Warpcharges:

+++ ITC-Maggie (1846pts) +++

++ CD Pandemoniad of Tzeentch ++

+ Core +

········Lorestealer Host [The Blue Scribes ]
············Blue Horrors [11x Blue Horrors ]
············Blue Horrors [11x Blue Horrors ]
············Blue Horrors [11x Blue Horrors ]
················The Blue Scribes

+ Command +

········Lord of Pandemonium [Kairos Fateweaver]

+ Auxiliary +

········Heralds Anarchic
········Rules: Warp Conduits
············Herald of Tzeentch [Disc of Tzeentch , Paradox , Psyker Level 3]
············Herald of Tzeentch [Disc of Tzeentch , Psyker Level 1]
············Herald of Tzeentch [Disc of Tzeentch , Psyker Level 1]

+ HQ +

········Exalted Sorcerer [Disc of Tzeetch , Mastery Level 3 ]

+ Troops +

········Chaos Cultists
········Rules: Mark of Tzeentch

········Chaos Cultists
········Rules: Mark of Tzeentch

+ Lord of War +

········Magnus the Red

That's 24 +D6 warpcharges, before any additional summonings.

I'm curious why I haven't seen anyone running Magnus in the Rehati (spelling?) Formation with 3 Exalted Disc Sorcerers.
Although it is more expensive than a CAD, it provides more WC and the Sorcerer's can literally stay out of LoS that whole game just zipping around being WC batteries and casting on 3+

The only con I see is that they have no unit to join.

Other than that, I think the best way to run Mangus would be TS CAD, with a Daemon CAD and 3+ Herald Formation

 Galef wrote:
I'm curious why I haven't seen anyone running Magnus in the Rehati (spelling?) Formation with 3 Exalted Disc Sorcerers.
Although it is more expensive than a CAD, it provides more WC and the Sorcerer's can literally stay out of LoS that whole game just zipping around being WC batteries and casting on 3+

The only con I see is that they have no unit to join.

Other than that, I think the best way to run Mangus would be TS CAD, with a Daemon CAD and 3+ Herald Formation

No unit to join is a big deal though - when the incentive for going out and killing those Heralds is -9 WC. LOS isn't a major issue for most competitive armies. You probably just end up throwing them in horror units and they'll do fine there

 Galef wrote:
I'm curious why I haven't seen anyone running Magnus in the Rehati (spelling?) Formation with 3 Exalted Disc Sorcerers.
Although it is more expensive than a CAD, it provides more WC and the Sorcerer's can literally stay out of LoS that whole game just zipping around being WC batteries and casting on 3+

The only con I see is that they have no unit to join.

Other than that, I think the best way to run Mangus would be TS CAD, with a Daemon CAD and 3+ Herald Formation

I like the idea of the E.Sorc as they can be the jack-of-all trade in such list.

I plan on dropping FW and the CAD to try out the Rehati + Lorestealer Host...

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Galef wrote:
I'm curious why I haven't seen anyone running Magnus in the Rehati (spelling?) Formation with 3 Exalted Disc Sorcerers.
Although it is more expensive than a CAD, it provides more WC and the Sorcerer's can literally stay out of LoS that whole game just zipping around being WC batteries and casting on 3+

The only con I see is that they have no unit to join.

Other than that, I think the best way to run Mangus would be TS CAD, with a Daemon CAD and 3+ Herald Formation

No unit to join is a big deal though - when the incentive for going out and killing those Heralds is -9 WC. LOS isn't a major issue for most competitive armies. You probably just end up throwing them in horror units and they'll do fine there

That sounds cool but the Sorcs aren't really self sustaining by themselves and they aren't really batteries if they're using warp charges even on a 3+ rerolling. Magnus still does it better on his own with his default 2+ harnessing. The headache alone of having to carefully hide them out of LOS all game makes me not want to do this. Also I'm pretty sure you have to within 18" of Magnus to get the 3+ casting which I foresee being problematic when you're very much concerned about playing hide and seek as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Drasius wrote:
I'd be very tempted to make the LoC my Warlord and fish for the +1 invulnerable power to all Tz Daemons within 9". That bumps Magnus to a 2++ as long as he gets Siphon off and it'll help out if you're not going first since it's always "on" and you don't have to cast it. Also means you don't have to rely on cursed earth for your 2++rr1's on the LoC either. Having said that, Magnus would be pretty difficult to kill here unless they alpha him off the board, so making him warlord has less chance of giving up your warlord point, especially if someone thinks about things for a second and takes the sanctic primaris. Ld9 is good, but not something you want to test on every time a wound slips through,

Other than that, I think the list is about as solid as it's going to get. I still don't think Magnus is worth it, but I'll be interested to hear how you get on with this list.

Maybe consider dropping a single screamer for a second mastery level on the Tz Sorceror so he can make 1 roll on telepathy?

I agree the LoC warlord idea is tempting, but as you say very risky. I really don't like banking on the 1 in 6 chance (even if rerollable) when there are that many potential downsides. Not to mention it would force me into rolling on the warpstorm table with no mitigation. With that many expensive daemon models on the table it's a big nope in my book.

Dropping a screamer for a ML on the Sorceror does sound like a good idea though.

It's not thaaaat big of a risk since the Tz warlord table has 5 great traits and only 1 crap one (good old soulblaze, *sigh*), but yeah, unmitigated warpstorm could bite you, but not very often with instability not really matering and you having enough psychers on the board not to worry too much about a random one getting popped from a 3d6 test.

Besides, Magnus' trait is trash anyway since anything that you'd like to slow down or cause checks on automatically passes anyway.

As for why you don't see the sorcs with Magnus in a Rehati Galef, it's because Magnus and 3x ML3 Exalted sorcs on discs are 1340 points for 4 models. That's a lot. Like a lot a lot. You've only got 510 points left to play with and you've only got 11 + d6 dice and all 4 of your casters are going to be wanting to use all of them and a couple more each.

Oh, wow, I didn't realize the E-Sorcerers were that expensive. You'd be better off with 3 DPs at that rate.

But still CAD with cultists is best

Don't bother trying to give Magnus Blessing of Tzeentch. Have him hide behind a VSG, fly towards the flanks, zap some stuff then move into Ongoing reserve. Rinse and repeat.

You can use Typhus and Zombies as your mandatory HQ and troops.

Galef wrote:Oh, wow, I didn't realize the E-Sorcerers were that expensive. You'd be better off with 3 DPs at that rate.

But still CAD with cultists is best

Yeah, 230 for ML3, familiar and disk. If doing Princes:

Rehati War Sect
650 - Magnus
350 - Prince, ML3, MoT, Familiar, Wings, Armour, Seers Bane
320 - Prince, ML3, MoT, Familiar, Wings, Armour, Staff of Arcane Compulsion
355 - Prince, ML3, MoT, Familiar, Wings, Armour, Black Mace

Heralds Anarchic
45 - Herald of Tzeentch
45 - Herald of Tzeentch
45 - Herald of Tzeentch

1810

40 points on whatever takes your fancy.

Could be worse.

MagicJuggler wrote:Don't bother trying to give Magnus Blessing of Tzeentch. Have him hide behind a VSG, fly towards the flanks, zap some stuff then move into Ongoing reserve. Rinse and repeat.

You can use Typhus and Zombies as your mandatory HQ and troops.

That's an extra 135 points that he doesn't have though. 135 is the exact amount needed for a heralds anarachic formation to hand out 6 warp charge, and that's a lot.

Don´t remember the formation name.

Magnus the Red

5 x Scarab Termies - Hellfyre Missile, Soulreaper Cannon
5 x Scarab Termies - Hellfyre Missile, Soulreaper Cannon
6 x Scarab Termies - Hellfyre Missile, Soulreaper Cannon
6 x Scarab Termies - Hellfyre Missile, Soulreaper Cannon

2 Termie sorcerers on Maelific last two on biomancy or something.

With the exalted sorcerers don´t forget their Str 9 AP2 blast lance bomb. put them on a disc and they are relentless

Thousand Sons CAD

Sorcerer,
Level 1, MOT

2x 10 Cultists
MOT

Magnus

Omniscient Oracles

Fateweaver

LoC
ML3, Paradox, Greater Reward

Daemon CAD

Herald
ML2, Grimoire, Disc

3x 11 Horrors

--------------------


This is, currently, the way I plan on running it.

Magnus and the LOC both summoning, hopefully, two Chariots a turn. Flying around as gunboats, etc.