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I just had a worrying thought about the faction of these new models. I play DE and Harlequins, and I fear that these will get CWE faction and therefore specifically the presumably squishy sword of ynead won't be able to start in any transports other than CWE.

I would hope they do something like give them multiple factions, like Eldar, DE and Harlequin.

 nintura wrote:
Always hated the idea that a god could be defeated so easily... It's a god for a reason, not some new ghost/ghast. If they make it slightly on the glass cannon side, it should be damned near impossible to permanently remove. Maybe even after it dies, it can be redeployed again so that it literally cannot be killed, only temporarily defeated

St Celestine says hi.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 nintura wrote:
Always hated the idea that a god could be defeated so easily... It's a god for a reason, not some new ghost/ghast. If they make it slightly on the glass cannon side, it should be damned near impossible to permanently remove. Maybe even after it dies, it can be redeployed again so that it literally cannot be killed, only temporarily defeated

St Celestine says hi.

Green Knight in AoS cannot die either.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Thats one of the reasons why I don't want it to be Malys, she is a psychic blank, a null zone, makes little sense to have a psychic familiar. Besides, I have said it before, the only reason people are speculating it as her is the fan. As if she is the only model ever allowed one. We will see soon enough either way.

I never read her story as if she was a blank. I don't believe it ever said that, though I could be wrong. She had a rule that powers could not affect her or her unit, but that could just as easily mean she had some form of psychic protection being emitting from the crystal heart.
If she turns out to be Malys, it would be an interesting plot advancement to have an Dark Eldar psyker (of which some do exist, but are typically shunned or hide their powers)
This could also align with the Visarch being Yriel. Established characters that have been "chosen" to spread the word of Ynnead and have been changed by him in the process.

It would also continue to blur the lines between CWE & DE to have a CWE Prince being fathered by a DE (fact) and a DE realizing her innate psychic powers.
These would be the perfect representatives for Ynnead

-

Tetsu0 wrote:
I just had a worrying thought about the faction of these new models. I play DE and Harlequins, and I fear that these will get CWE faction and therefore specifically the presumably squishy sword of ynead won't be able to start in any transports other than CWE.

I would hope they do something like give them multiple factions, like Eldar, DE and Harlequin.

They will probably only be available as formations anyway. Then there is the fact that we don't even know what these guys will do. I mean, the sword could be a hill of trash in game, so why worry about how your going to field him. Same applies to all three really, people are making assumptions based on craftworld eldar but I'll tell you as a primarily DE player that not all eldar are good Same applies to Harlies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Galef wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Thats one of the reasons why I don't want it to be Malys, she is a psychic blank, a null zone, makes little sense to have a psychic familiar. Besides, I have said it before, the only reason people are speculating it as her is the fan. As if she is the only model ever allowed one. We will see soon enough either way.

I never read her story as if she was a blank. I don't believe it ever said that, though I could be wrong. She had a rule that powers could not effect her or her unit, but that could just as easily mean she had some form of psychic protection being emitting from the crystal heart.
If she turns out to be Malys, it would be an interesting plot advancement to have an Dark Eldar psyker (of which some do exist, but are typically shunned or hide their powers)
This could also align with the Visarch being Yriel. Established characters that has been "chosen" to spread the word of Ynnead and have been changed by him in the process.

-

That all made me vomit in my mouth.

 The Grumpy Eldar wrote:
They kind of feel pre-fall. Neither Dark-Eldar or current regular Eldar

Yep, lovely miniatures.

I haven't read all of this section of the thread and so apologize if this was covered, but can we assume that each is rooted in/representive of one of the three factions? Emissary = DE, Sword = Craftworld, Avatar = Harlequins?

Tetsu0 wrote:
I just had a worrying thought about the faction of these new models. I play DE and Harlequins, and I fear that these will get CWE faction and therefore specifically the presumably squishy sword of ynead won't be able to start in any transports other than CWE.

I would hope they do something like give them multiple factions, like Eldar, DE and Harlequin.

Well that's unlikely - the new Imperial Triumvirate was obviously designed with Marines in mind - so likely the Eldar ones will be with CWE in mind. I imagine this will make any Eldar list stronger but will then mostly be used with the already OP Eldar same as Celestine is likely to be used an awful lot with marines.

The actual factions are secondary - see Celestine not having Act of Faith and so removing it from a Sisters squad if she is attached and referencing the Martyrdom rule in her rules but not actually having it! There is not even a Adepta Sororitas specific formation in the book that includes her. At least she can be chosen as a HQ for them

 gorgon wrote:

I haven't read all of this section of the thread and so apologize if this was covered, but can we assume that each is rooted in/representive of one of the three factions? Emissary = DE, Sword = Craftworld, Avatar = Harlequins?

It is looking like all 3 represent all 3 faction without "exclusive" ties to any 1 faction. Ynnead represents all Aedari.
We still don't know what that means in-game.

 Imateria wrote:

If it really is Lady Malys, I don't think she should have Psychic powers per-se, but has her "Culexus of the Dark Eldar" abilities again whilst the Gyrinx boost nearby friendly Psychers. PfP kind of works for the God of Death, but how about reversing it so that the more models you loose the stronger the Avatar gets?

One thing the Dark Eldar are good at is close combat. Wych Cults, Covens, Incubi, Mandrakes all point to that so having stats that let it go first and hit like a freight train, but not really being able to take too much damage back would fit in as well, unfortunately thats also a bit of a Harlequin trait as well.

Love the idea of her as an anti-psyker by the looks of things we'll have a psychic powerhouse with the Avatar, a beatstick with not-Yriel, leaving not-Malys as an anti-psyker and army-wide tactical buff person (befitting a powerful Archon).

Also, that's exactly what I'm after: hits like a freight train, folds like a cheap suit.

Point out to your opponent that your massively costly IC has worse armour, toughness and strength than his beloved Chapter Master. Neglect to point out that it has a bajillion attacks at I9

 Galef wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

If it really is Lady Malys, I don't think she should have Psychic powers per-se, but has her "Culexus of the Dark Eldar" abilities again whilst the Gyrinx boost nearby friendly Psychers. PfP kind of works for the God of Death, but how about reversing it so that the more models you loose the stronger the Avatar gets?

One thing the Dark Eldar are good at is close combat. Wych Cults, Covens, Incubi, Mandrakes all point to that so having stats that let it go first and hit like a freight train, but not really being able to take too much damage back would fit in as well, unfortunately thats also a bit of a Harlequin trait as well.

That is genius. Every Aeldari death empowers the Avatar of....well, Aeldari death

-

That is absolutely inspired!

Back on the soap-box of Eldar survivability having nothing to do with armour or toughness, and everything to do with slipperyness Isn't what you're suggesting the absolute epitome of that?

Yes, your opponent could quite easily blow away the squishy T3 units bearing down on him. But, just point out to him that every Eldar that dies within 12" of the Avatar buffs it by 1 attack and provides an extra warp charge for the subsequent psychic phase (during which you've got some really nasty psychic powers).

Make them perfectly capable of out-right murdering your units...but hesitate to pull the trigger

Absolute wishlisting of course, but would be neat

 Mr Morden wrote:

If it really is Lady Malys, I don't think she should have Psychic powers per-se, but has her "Culexus of the Dark Eldar" abilities again whilst the Gyrinx boost nearby friendly Psychers. PfP kind of works for the God of Death, but how about reversing it so that the more models you loose the stronger the Avatar gets?

Might be interesting /work if the male suited elder was anti-psyker. Having the Gyrinx that close and part of the model would be odd if she was a Pariah type.

One thing the Dark Eldar are good at is close combat. Wych Cults, Covens, Incubi, Mandrakes all point to that so having stats that let it go first and hit like a freight train, but not really being able to take too much damage back would fit in as well, unfortunately thats also a bit of a Harlequin trait as well.

Hahahahah - If only - now the Dark Eldar should be good in close combat like in every piece of fluff ever but the table top stats for the majority of their CC models are laughable - especially when Guardians became WS4. Yeah right - a Guardian has the same WS as a elite Wych that have survived decades in the arenas.

But then Codex: Powergamer - Opps Sorry I meant Eldar.

Interesting that the Avatar has weapon options - maybe "not Malys" with have a just combat suit option - that would be cool.

Incubi are the best aspect shrine at close combat, Grotesques and Talos are amazing, Succubi are excellent, Reavers are excellent, even Sslyth and Haemonculi are good. Archon's would be great if they had any AP2 options. It's just such a sad state of affairs that Wyches and Hellions are rubbish.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

If it really is Lady Malys, I don't think she should have Psychic powers per-se, but has her "Culexus of the Dark Eldar" abilities again whilst the Gyrinx boost nearby friendly Psychers. PfP kind of works for the God of Death, but how about reversing it so that the more models you loose the stronger the Avatar gets?

One thing the Dark Eldar are good at is close combat. Wych Cults, Covens, Incubi, Mandrakes all point to that so having stats that let it go first and hit like a freight train, but not really being able to take too much damage back would fit in as well, unfortunately thats also a bit of a Harlequin trait as well.

Love the idea of her as an anti-psyker by the looks of things we'll have a psychic powerhouse with the Avatar, a beatstick with not-Yriel, leaving not-Malys as an anti-psyker and army-wide tactical buff person (befitting a powerful Archon).

Also, that's exactly what I'm after: hits like a freight train, folds like a cheap suit.

Point out to your opponent that your massively costly IC has worse armour, toughness and strength than his beloved Chapter Master. Neglect to point out that it has a bajillion attacks at I9

 Galef wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

If it really is Lady Malys, I don't think she should have Psychic powers per-se, but has her "Culexus of the Dark Eldar" abilities again whilst the Gyrinx boost nearby friendly Psychers. PfP kind of works for the God of Death, but how about reversing it so that the more models you loose the stronger the Avatar gets?

One thing the Dark Eldar are good at is close combat. Wych Cults, Covens, Incubi, Mandrakes all point to that so having stats that let it go first and hit like a freight train, but not really being able to take too much damage back would fit in as well, unfortunately thats also a bit of a Harlequin trait as well.

That is genius. Every Aeldari death empowers the Avatar of....well, Aeldari death

-

That is absolutely inspired!

Back on the soap-box of Eldar survivability having nothing to do with armour or toughness, and everything to do with slipperyness Isn't what you're suggesting the absolute epitome of that?

Yes, your opponent could quite easily blow away the squishy T3 units bearing down on him. But, just point out to him that every Eldar that dies within 12" of the Avatar buffs it by 1 attack and provides an extra warp charge for the subsequent psychic phase (during which you've got some really nasty psychic powers).

Make them perfectly capable of out-right murdering your units...but hesitate to pull the trigger

How on earth did you arrive at that conclusion? There has been zero information on any of these models in game affect and I think the wishlisting is getting carried away, which I am generally opposed to in a rumor thread since it only spreads misinformation to people coming here for news.

 Galef wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

I haven't read all of this section of the thread and so apologize if this was covered, but can we assume that each is rooted in/representive of one of the three factions? Emissary = DE, Sword = Craftworld, Avatar = Harlequins?

It is looking like all 3 represent all 3 faction without "exclusive" ties to any 1 faction. Ynnead represents all Aedari.
We still don't know what that means in-game.

I wasn't talking about exclusive ties or any in-game effects, but the idea that each of them emerged from one of the factions in the narrative. I do think that they're (or at least two of them are, since the Harlequins seem nameless) named characters from the fluff chosen by Ynnead. It only makes sense to tie them into existing characters and narratives. Malys seems like a good bet, and Yriel a decent one, leaving a very swirly, swooshy Avatar in a Saturday Night Fever dance pose who almost has to be a Harlequin. The swooshy stuff is somewhat reminiscent of a holofield, even.

 Red Corsair wrote:

They will probably only be available as formations anyway. Then there is the fact that we don't even know what these guys will do. I mean, the sword could be a hill of trash in game, so why worry about how your going to field him. Same applies to all three really, people are making assumptions based on craftworld eldar but I'll tell you as a primarily DE player that not all eldar are good Same applies to Harlies.

I, like you, get endlessly frustrated by people who think that Craftworld Eldar are in any way 'good guys'. Aside from the Tau, they're one of the most insidious factions in the galaxy from the point of view of the Imperium.

At least with Chaos, or Tyranids it's blatantly obvious that they're going to drop down from space and you're day is going to be royally f*cked in a really unpleasant way (it's the spikes I reckon...).

CWE and Harlequins are different. With one hand, they'll help you out against a common enemy. Simultaneously with the other hand they'll divert an Ork Waaagh into a heavily-populated Imperial world, killing billions. They will only, and always act entirely in their own self interest. They'd gladly throw any number of children under a bus if it saved just one of their own kind, all the while their mate is talking the talk of 'uniting together against the great enemy' to the chap next door.

"Trust not in their appearance, for the Eldar are as alien to good, honest men as the vile Tyranids and savage Orks. There is no understanding them for there is nothing to understand - they are a random force in the universe." - Imperial Commander Abriel Hume

That's the 'goody two-shoes' of the Eldar factions .Dark Eldar are even nastier

I'm just hoping and praying that the writers remember that fact when they're writing the next FoC book...

 Red Corsair wrote:

How on earth did you arrive at that conclusion? There has been zero information on any of these models in game affect and I think the wishlisting is getting carried away, which I am generally opposed to in a rumor thread since it only spreads misinformation to people coming here for news.

Oh it's absolute wishlisting. I'm excited. Shoot me

Jokes of course you do have a point about it being misleading for people looking for solid information. I'll edit a disclaimer in at the top

Thanks, not trying to stomp on your excitement btw but it is just a pet peeve of mine when people start passing off there theories as fact in a news ans rumor thread.

 Ynneadwraith wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

If it really is Lady Malys, I don't think she should have Psychic powers per-se, but has her "Culexus of the Dark Eldar" abilities again whilst the Gyrinx boost nearby friendly Psychers. PfP kind of works for the God of Death, but how about reversing it so that the more models you loose the stronger the Avatar gets?

One thing the Dark Eldar are good at is close combat. Wych Cults, Covens, Incubi, Mandrakes all point to that so having stats that let it go first and hit like a freight train, but not really being able to take too much damage back would fit in as well, unfortunately thats also a bit of a Harlequin trait as well.

Love the idea of her as an anti-psyker by the looks of things we'll have a psychic powerhouse with the Avatar, a beatstick with not-Yriel, leaving not-Malys as an anti-psyker and army-wide tactical buff person (befitting a powerful Archon).

Also, that's exactly what I'm after: hits like a freight train, folds like a cheap suit.

Point out to your opponent that your massively costly IC has worse armour, toughness and strength than his beloved Chapter Master. Neglect to point out that it has a bajillion attacks at I9

 Galef wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

If it really is Lady Malys, I don't think she should have Psychic powers per-se, but has her "Culexus of the Dark Eldar" abilities again whilst the Gyrinx boost nearby friendly Psychers. PfP kind of works for the God of Death, but how about reversing it so that the more models you loose the stronger the Avatar gets?

One thing the Dark Eldar are good at is close combat. Wych Cults, Covens, Incubi, Mandrakes all point to that so having stats that let it go first and hit like a freight train, but not really being able to take too much damage back would fit in as well, unfortunately thats also a bit of a Harlequin trait as well.

That is genius. Every Aeldari death empowers the Avatar of....well, Aeldari death

-

That is absolutely inspired!

Back on the soap-box of Eldar survivability having nothing to do with armour or toughness, and everything to do with slipperyness Isn't what you're suggesting the absolute epitome of that?

Yes, your opponent could quite easily blow away the squishy T3 units bearing down on him. But, just point out to him that every Eldar that dies within 12" of the Avatar buffs it by 1 attack and provides an extra warp charge for the subsequent psychic phase (during which you've got some really nasty psychic powers).

Make them perfectly capable of out-right murdering your units...but hesitate to pull the trigger

I think a combination of Harlequin trickery to make it hard to hit back and DE killiness is what is needed. A form of Fear that isn't nullified by And They Are Broken would be a good start.

I'd actually wager Craftworld Eldar are the worst of a bad bunch.

Sure, Dark Eldar raid and take slaves, possibly depopulating an entire world in the effort. But the suffering and eventual deaths of those slaves keep Dark Eldar alive - and likely on a more than one-for-one basis.

Craftworld? They'll orchestrate the deaths of billions, for the sake of one Eldar life, and all because their Seers claim to see the future....

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I'd actually wager Craftworld Eldar are the worst of a bad bunch.

Sure, Dark Eldar raid and take slaves, possibly depopulating an entire world in the effort. But the suffering and eventual deaths of those slaves keep Dark Eldar alive - and likely on a more than one-for-one basis.

Craftworld? They'll orchestrate the deaths of billions, for the sake of one Eldar life, and all because their Seers claim to see the future....

No, make no mistake Dark Eldar are worse, they will go on their raids for fun and can make their torture last for a very long time.

Then again, I think there are a lot of people that really need to remember that there are no "good guys" in this setting at all.

 Imateria wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I'd actually wager Craftworld Eldar are the worst of a bad bunch.

Sure, Dark Eldar raid and take slaves, possibly depopulating an entire world in the effort. But the suffering and eventual deaths of those slaves keep Dark Eldar alive - and likely on a more than one-for-one basis.

Craftworld? They'll orchestrate the deaths of billions, for the sake of one Eldar life, and all because their Seers claim to see the future....

No, make no mistake Dark Eldar are worse, they will go on their raids for fun and can make their torture last for a very long time.

Then again, I think there are a lot of people that really need to remember that there are no "good guys" in this setting at all.

Yeah, if I had to live in the 40k universe there were only 2 options:

- Ultramar

- Gue'la

Everything else is horrible.

Vect actually required the suffering of thousands of slaves to regenerate, IIRC.

Pure conjecture:

 gorgon wrote:

 Galef wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

I haven't read all of this section of the thread and so apologize if this was covered, but can we assume that each is rooted in/representive of one of the three factions? Emissary = DE, Sword = Craftworld, Avatar = Harlequins?

It is looking like all 3 represent all 3 faction without "exclusive" ties to any 1 faction. Ynnead represents all Aedari.
We still don't know what that means in-game.

I wasn't talking about exclusive ties or any in-game effects, but the idea that each of them emerged from one of the factions in the narrative. I do think that they're (or at least two of them are, since the Harlequins seem nameless) named characters from the fluff chosen by Ynnead. It only makes sense to tie them into existing characters and narratives. Malys seems like a good bet, and Yriel a decent one, leaving a very swirly, swooshy Avatar in a Saturday Night Fever dance pose who almost has to be a Harlequin. The swooshy stuff is somewhat reminiscent of a holofield, even.

I hope this is the direction they are heading with this.

I think it's worth mentioning that now we know the Avatar of Ynnead has two different builds(the sword and icon/rune clasped in hand we saw on the Community page and the double daggers build we got shown today from Warhammer World), I feel like it's safe to say the Avatar of Ynnead is probably going to be a Psyker.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Thanks, not trying to stomp on your excitement btw but it is just a pet peeve of mine when people start passing off there theories as fact in a news ans rumor thread.

No probs, picked that up on the second read through very insightful thought

 Imateria wrote:

I think a combination of Harlequin trickery to make it hard to hit back and DE killiness is what is needed. A form of Fear that isn't nullified by And They Are Broken would be a good start.

'And They Shall be Broken'?!

Good Lord that's brilliant.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I'd actually wager Craftworld Eldar are the worst of a bad bunch.

Sure, Dark Eldar raid and take slaves, possibly depopulating an entire world in the effort. But the suffering and eventual deaths of those slaves keep Dark Eldar alive - and likely on a more than one-for-one basis.

Craftworld? They'll orchestrate the deaths of billions, for the sake of one Eldar life, and all because their Seers claim to see the future....

Oh Dark Eldar definitely are worse, but only by the smallest of margins. You're absolutely right that the Craftworlders are insidious supremacist puppetmasters. I think stuff like pally-pally Farseers and Blood Ravens in Dawn of War and a lot of the fluff stories (including Fall of Cadia) where they sandwich in the Eldar as a Deus Ex Machina device to save the heroes from certain doom is to blame for the mistaken identity.

I'd love to Fall of Cadia do it right. The Eldar swoop in to save the day, transporting the Templars away from their certain doom...directly into the midst of another warzone where their victory will help the Eldar and do nothing to help the Imperium. Then, the survivors are rounded up and taken to Commorragh

 TheDraconicLord wrote:


Yeah, if I had to live in the 40k universe there were only 2 options:

- Ultramar

- Gue'la

Everything else is horrible.

Vect actually required the suffering of thousands of slaves to regenerate, IIRC.

Even then, Ultramar is about as far from a paradise as you can get. It's the ultimate utilitarian meritocracy. If you can't pull you're weight, I'm fairly certain they'd just put you down. They're a society that values efficiency more than anything else. Get to sick or old to do the work that's required of you and you'd be a burden that would have to be dealt with. I'm guessing work camps, seeing as that way they can eke that last bit of labour from you while you're still useful...

And as for being a Gue'la...decent chance of your rebellious mates getting everyone you know forcibly sterilised. I'm also of the opinion that the Tau Empire is similar to communist China. The party (codex) line paints a vision of a utopia where everyone works for the good of the people. The reality involves a lot fewer human rights...

Apply the usual 40k 'everything is terrible' adjustment and you'll probably get close to what the tau Empire is actually like in its rotten core

I really like the minis, but I'm not an Eldar player and have no use for them.

 kronk wrote:
I really like the minis, but I'm not an Eldar player and have no use for them.

Even if you're an Eldar player, its not clear if the new models are useful game-wise.

Am I going crazy or am I the only one getting a vibe that they just may re-combine the eldar races back into one for the end times? Setting aside old differences for the sake of the race.

I feel an Eldar 'instant betrayal' isn't terribly Eldar.

We already know that their every act, every single one, is ultimately a purely self-serving goal - but right now the Galaxy seems on a precipice, with no apparent easy win for anyone.

Far more interesting to leave the true price of their aid further off....

 nintura wrote:
Am I going crazy or am I the only one getting a vibe that they just may re-combine the eldar races back into one for the end times? Setting aside old differences for the sake of the race.

Your not crazy....or...errrr. I am crazy too lol. They seem to ramping up for Age of the Emprah *ducks thrown objects* not suggesting 40k will go full sigmar rules wise, but despite what rumor mongers have said, this plot advancement feels very much the same as the end times.

 nintura wrote:
Am I going crazy or am I the only one getting a vibe that they just may re-combine the eldar races back into one for the end times? Setting aside old differences for the sake of the race.

You are not the only one. GW did this with the Elves, excuse me, "Aelves" in AoS and they actually had a civil war the split them for centuries. Like bitterly split them. They actually had Hatred for each other
CWE and DE have never been truly that split. They simply have different views on how to continue life after the Fall, but overall there was no bitter feud between them like High & Dark elves had.

If GW 'successfully' merged Aelves in Fantasy, merging the "Aeldari" in 40K will be even easier.

-

Just like they are merging all the imperial armies from Fall of Cadia

 Galef wrote:

 nintura wrote:
Am I going crazy or am I the only one getting a vibe that they just may re-combine the eldar races back into one for the end times? Setting aside old differences for the sake of the race.

You are not the only one. GW did this with the Elves, excuse me, "Aelves" in AoS and they actually had a civil war the split them for centuries. Like bitterly split them. They actually had Hatred for each other
CWE and DE have never been truly that split. They simply have different views on how to continue life after the Fall, but overall there was no bitter feud between them like High & Dark elves had.

If GW 'successfully' merged Aelves in Fantasy, merging the "Aeldari" in 40K will be even easier.

-

That's where I was going before. Each of these three characters may arise from a different Eldar faction, and so therefore together symbolize all 3 factions unifying (although we have no idea if what that will mean in game terms) under Ynnead.