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*edit*

Quoted person who posted in wrong thread.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Oooh, 4 attacks at strength 4, that'll really gut things.

That's a colossal waste of points.

You mean 6 attacks at S4 AP2 with shred?

Only reason I mention Jain Zar is her ability to basically duel any beefy character in the game and win,

No, I mean 4. Once per combat she'll have 5 if she charges, other than that it's 4.

Also, she couldn't kill the characters that matter even if they were unarmed. 4 Str 4 Attacks with Shred will never do any damage to Iron Hands Bikemaster. He'll kill her unarmed.

Unless I am missing something I don't see how that works. Jain Zar will do about 0.5 wounds per turn vs your Bikemaster. Offset by IWND she takes a while to kill him but you would expect her to get there over 8-9 combat phases.

By contrast the Bikemaster has no chance of killing Jain Zar. He loses his weapon and is on -5 WS. So hitting on 5s, wounding on 4s and Zar has a 2+ armour save. So on average your Bikemaster is doing 1/9 wounds per turn. You have a good chance of not doing a wound in a combat that lasts nearly an entire game never mind killing her.

Yeah, since Harlies are directly in the service of one god (Cegorach) already, at best they just approve of Ynnead and lend some bodies out.

 chalkobob wrote:
Yeah, since Harlies are directly in the service of one god (Cegorach) already, at best they just approve of Ynnead and lend some bodies out.

For all we know, helping out Ynnead might be part of Cegorach's plan. I don't think we can draw conclusions just from that.
But I doubt we'll have much information on how many harlies follow Ynnead, as they're supposed to stay pretty secretive about everything.
They could even be duplicitous about their intentions, and have a plan of their own that has to do with strengthening Ynnead for ulterior motives (like sacrifice him to increase Cegorach's power or something).

I seem to remember that Harlequin's number were supposed to be increasing (more and more eldars taking on the mask), and in the lore up until now they were kind of the "eldar cult of the masterplan to end Slaneesh". Now that role seems to be filled by Ynnead's followers. And they make a stronger case since they're backed-up by an actual god (or at least a fraction of a god), whereas Harlequins talk about a secret plan, but never show any proof that they have Cegorach's support (it's not even confirmed that Cegorach is still alive, right?).
Ynnead's story might go a completely different direction (with the undead stuff and all), but at the moment I'm afraid that there is a lot of overlap between the roles that Harlies and Ynnaris have in the fluff, which could mean that Harlies as a faction of their own might loose some momentum.

fresus wrote:

 chalkobob wrote:
Yeah, since Harlies are directly in the service of one god (Cegorach) already, at best they just approve of Ynnead and lend some bodies out.

For all we know, helping out Ynnead might be part of Cegorach's plan. I don't think we can draw conclusions just from that.
But I doubt we'll have much information on how many harlies follow Ynnead, as they're supposed to stay pretty secretive about everything.
They could even be duplicitous about their intentions, and have a plan of their own that has to do with strengthening Ynnead for ulterior motives (like sacrifice him to increase Cegorach's power or something).

I seem to remember that Harlequin's number were supposed to be increasing (more and more eldars taking on the mask), and in the lore up until now they were kind of the "eldar cult of the masterplan to end Slaneesh". Now that role seems to be filled by Ynnead's followers. And they make a stronger case since they're backed-up by an actual god (or at least a fraction of a god), whereas Harlequins talk about a secret plan, but never show any proof that they have Cegorach's support (it's not even confirmed that Cegorach is still alive, right?).
Ynnead's story might go a completely different direction (with the undead stuff and all), but at the moment I'm afraid that there is a lot of overlap between the roles that Harlies and Ynnaris have in the fluff, which could mean that Harlies as a faction of their own might loose some momentum.

It is confirmed in that they don't need pain or soulstones because Cegorach secures their souls. He is alive.

It might have been mysterious and shrouded in uncertainty at one point, but we're in the Warhammer 40,000 TM expanded universe setting now. All the mysteries are gone, we know Robute Guilliman's favorite breakfast cereal and the correct procedure for the emperor's sponge baths.

the_scotsman wrote:

fresus wrote:

 chalkobob wrote:
Yeah, since Harlies are directly in the service of one god (Cegorach) already, at best they just approve of Ynnead and lend some bodies out.

For all we know, helping out Ynnead might be part of Cegorach's plan. I don't think we can draw conclusions just from that.
But I doubt we'll have much information on how many harlies follow Ynnead, as they're supposed to stay pretty secretive about everything.
They could even be duplicitous about their intentions, and have a plan of their own that has to do with strengthening Ynnead for ulterior motives (like sacrifice him to increase Cegorach's power or something).

I seem to remember that Harlequin's number were supposed to be increasing (more and more eldars taking on the mask), and in the lore up until now they were kind of the "eldar cult of the masterplan to end Slaneesh". Now that role seems to be filled by Ynnead's followers. And they make a stronger case since they're backed-up by an actual god (or at least a fraction of a god), whereas Harlequins talk about a secret plan, but never show any proof that they have Cegorach's support (it's not even confirmed that Cegorach is still alive, right?).
Ynnead's story might go a completely different direction (with the undead stuff and all), but at the moment I'm afraid that there is a lot of overlap between the roles that Harlies and Ynnaris have in the fluff, which could mean that Harlies as a faction of their own might loose some momentum.

It is confirmed in that they don't need pain or soulstones because Cegorach secures their souls. He is alive.

It might have been mysterious and shrouded in uncertainty at one point, but we're in the Warhammer 40,000 TM expanded universe setting now. All the mysteries are gone, we know Robute Guilliman's favorite breakfast cereal and the correct procedure for the emperor's sponge baths.

And yet we still don't know the most and eldest mistery of them all.

What shampoo did the Emperor use?

Still, knowing isn't bad. Though i guess it's a different thing and thus may not appear to everyone. Middle Earth has a ton of explanations and I'd not say it feels "small".

Lord Kragan wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

fresus wrote:

 chalkobob wrote:
Yeah, since Harlies are directly in the service of one god (Cegorach) already, at best they just approve of Ynnead and lend some bodies out.

For all we know, helping out Ynnead might be part of Cegorach's plan. I don't think we can draw conclusions just from that.
But I doubt we'll have much information on how many harlies follow Ynnead, as they're supposed to stay pretty secretive about everything.
They could even be duplicitous about their intentions, and have a plan of their own that has to do with strengthening Ynnead for ulterior motives (like sacrifice him to increase Cegorach's power or something).

I seem to remember that Harlequin's number were supposed to be increasing (more and more eldars taking on the mask), and in the lore up until now they were kind of the "eldar cult of the masterplan to end Slaneesh". Now that role seems to be filled by Ynnead's followers. And they make a stronger case since they're backed-up by an actual god (or at least a fraction of a god), whereas Harlequins talk about a secret plan, but never show any proof that they have Cegorach's support (it's not even confirmed that Cegorach is still alive, right?).
Ynnead's story might go a completely different direction (with the undead stuff and all), but at the moment I'm afraid that there is a lot of overlap between the roles that Harlies and Ynnaris have in the fluff, which could mean that Harlies as a faction of their own might loose some momentum.

It is confirmed in that they don't need pain or soulstones because Cegorach secures their souls. He is alive.

It might have been mysterious and shrouded in uncertainty at one point, but we're in the Warhammer 40,000 TM expanded universe setting now. All the mysteries are gone, we know Robute Guilliman's favorite breakfast cereal and the correct procedure for the emperor's sponge baths.

And yet we still don't know the most and eldest mistery of them all.

What shampoo did the Emperor use?

Still, knowing isn't bad. Though i guess it's a different thing and thus may not appear to everyone. Middle Earth has a ton of explanations and I'd not say it feels "small".

Compare and contrast the number of people who read and felt compelled by Lord of the Rings vs the number of people who read and felt compelled by The Silmarillion. Keeping things mysterious is a great way to outsource creativity - even if the author has an idea of the truth, the theories of the combined fan base are usually more interesting, and that's what makes settings that don't fully flesh out everything interesting.

Exploring everything and knowing all the exact answers appeals to a small, fanatical segment of the fanbase of any given canon that need to know the *official* answer, and they're highly vocal and tend to be the type that get jobs writing for these kinds of companies. But if there's an official answer and outcome to every scheme and plan and grudge and plot, and every epic battle gets fought and every character sees their motivation through to the end, that's how you get Age of Sigmar. A setting where basically everything interesting has been done, and every new layer of development has to strain itself to the breaking point to top all the previous layers in terms of sheer epic-ness because there's nothing left to resolve and no new story threads are being made.

I don't care what Cegorach's ultimate plan is. I don't want a 15" tall Harlequin with a swirly energy thing around him with stats for the Dancing Sword, Spandex of Majesty and Pistol of the Great Clown-lord. Whatever they come up with, it's going to be a letdown and at this point if they revisit the Harlequins it seems like a model like that is an inevitability.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong - I hope I am. Maybe Celestine will do something that proves FOC 1 to be more mysterious than just "the emperor becomes a chaos god and is just like Sigmar in AOS", here are his game mechanics and here's his model. Maybe The Yncarne will prove to be a false hope and the setting will become the grim darkness of the 41st millenium again. Maybe the Dark Eldar won't be cast as cartoon villains with all their minions running off to join the heroes as Vect shakes his fist and yells "you'll pay for this Captain Planet!" and maybe the grand alliance of all the goodie-goods will fall apart and they'll have to make greater sacrifices to stop Abbadon than just making friendship bracelets and engaging in a super-teamup.

That'd be great!

/tiresome.

Just because you phrase it in that way does not mean the gathering storm story has been poor, nor that is hasn't created interesting story points.

You can write a pointless critique like that about literally anything.

fresus wrote:

 chalkobob wrote:
Yeah, since Harlies are directly in the service of one god (Cegorach) already, at best they just approve of Ynnead and lend some bodies out.

For all we know, helping out Ynnead might be part of Cegorach's plan. I don't think we can draw conclusions just from that.
But I doubt we'll have much information on how many harlies follow Ynnead, as they're supposed to stay pretty secretive about everything.
They could even be duplicitous about their intentions, and have a plan of their own that has to do with strengthening Ynnead for ulterior motives (like sacrifice him to increase Cegorach's power or something).

I seem to remember that Harlequin's number were supposed to be increasing (more and more eldars taking on the mask), and in the lore up until now they were kind of the "eldar cult of the masterplan to end Slaneesh". Now that role seems to be filled by Ynnead's followers. And they make a stronger case since they're backed-up by an actual god (or at least a fraction of a god), whereas Harlequins talk about a secret plan, but never show any proof that they have Cegorach's support (it's not even confirmed that Cegorach is still alive, right?).
Ynnead's story might go a completely different direction (with the undead stuff and all), but at the moment I'm afraid that there is a lot of overlap between the roles that Harlies and Ynnaris have in the fluff, which could mean that Harlies as a faction of their own might loose some momentum.

Any idea on when GW will start selling these models individually?

I'm not into the emissary and not into St C in the last release

They'll all be on eBay split up far before they reach retail as individuals.

 Elbows wrote:
They'll all be on eBay split up far before they reach retail as individuals.

And buying 2 of the 3 you want will be more expensive than just buying the box set of 3, as usual with ebay items....

But then buying 2 of the 3 when GW releases them separately is very likely to cost you more than the Triumvirate box too based on GW special character prices

the_scotsman wrote:It might have been mysterious and shrouded in uncertainty at one point, but we're in the Warhammer 40,000 TM expanded universe setting now. All the mysteries are gone, we know Robute Guilliman's favorite breakfast cereal and the correct procedure for the emperor's sponge baths.

So what is it? Your joke fails.

As for the mysteries are gone? How so? You defence to this is we know breakfast cereal and sponge baths? That is pathetic.

Now we have new mysteries. I don't know how the Primarchs have become mysterious. I found them boring, without character. This is good. This is refreshing. If anything it's adding mystery now where there was really non before.

 reds8n wrote:

Does nobody else find PK's face a little disturbing when he says "They have found their escape mechanism... or so they think."

 SirDigby wrote:


Does nobody else find PK's face a little disturbing when he says "They have found their escape mechanism... or so they think."

I like a bit of foreboding

i told you. Maybe the avatar is really slaanesh and he just found a way to make the eldar give up their souls willingly )

Nah.. it's Creed's tactical genius at work. He's using the Eldar to rebuild Cadia.

Nah, it's Eldrad. All of this, even his failing is "just as planned"

Or perhaps it's just as ynnead planned, he's a new god who will become all powerful when he consumes all the eldar souls and overthrows all of the gods Without bringing back any of the eldar.

I think i'm gonna need Duncans help with these three, especially the avatar, there has to be a way of leaving it in sub assemblies otherwise its going to be hell to paint.

 Mantle wrote:
Or perhaps it's just as ynnead planned, he's a new god who will become all powerful when he consumes all the eldar souls and overthrows all of the gods Without bringing back any of the eldar.

Indeed, I think the new death god may not have the eldar's best intentions at heart I think.

Maybe he really is the Emperor. Swallowing souls and hates chaos. We have the old stories of the star children, and this fragment could be one f them. The Emperor could take on many forms after all.

So, first we had Wrath of Magnus, which was about the return of a mighty sorcerous figure from the past through a great sacrificial ritual.

Then we had Fall of Cadia, which was about a human bastion against Chaos and the intervention of divinely-touched human forces - complete with leader who returns from the dead.

Now we have Fracture of Biel-Tan, which is about Eldar/Aeldari coming to terms with new revelations about their gods and their disparate, divided societies being fielded as a unified force on the tabletop and-


Holy , for how much GW is all "This isn't The End Times, we swear!" they sure do like repeating some story beats, don't they?

Sothalor wrote:
So, first we had Wrath of Magnus, which was about the return of a mighty sorcerous figure from the past through a great sacrificial ritual.

Then we had Fall of Cadia, which was about a human bastion against Chaos and the intervention of divinely-touched human forces - complete with leader who returns from the dead.

Now we have Fracture of Biel-Tan, which is about Eldar/Aeldari coming to terms with new revelations about their gods and their disparate, divided societies being fielded as a unified force on the tabletop and-

Holy , for how much GW is all "This isn't The End Times, we swear!" they sure do like repeating some story beats, don't they?

Yeah, the elves unified themselves behind Khaine during ET and here there are no oppositors to the Ynnari whatsoever. Furthermore, the Ynnari and other eldar came to a massive trade of blows during the book.

But at this point I guess the MST3K Mantra is impossible to achieve.

Sothalor wrote:

Holy , for how much GW is all "This isn't The End Times, we swear!" they sure do like repeating some story beats, don't they?

GW probably refers to "End Times" as completely scrapping the games rules for a whole new game. By that definition, they are telling the truth that 40K isn't being "end timed"
But they're totally probably doing everything else that "End Times" did. It'll just culminate into 8th edition 40K, rather than 40K: Age of the Emprah!

-

 Galef wrote:

Sothalor wrote:

Holy , for how much GW is all "This isn't The End Times, we swear!" they sure do like repeating some story beats, don't they?

GW probably refers to "End Times" as completely scrapping the games rules for a whole new game. By that definition, they are telling the truth that 40K isn't being "end timed"
But they're totally probably doing everything else that "End Times" did. It'll just culminate into 8th edition 40K, rather than 40K: Age of the Emprah!

-

End Times the entire world blew up, and the rules rebooted.
This appears to be moving the story forward, with refined rules, but the clock will either be stopped again, or we will start seeing more and more consequences, rather than "rocks fall, everyone died"

Jesus, third time around the wheel this week anybody?