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2017/02/09 02:56:11
Subject: The Gathering Storm Part II: Page 78 Yvraine video
Red Corsair wrote: Gotta see costs first before final judgement. The visarch is s3 t3 3+ save with no invuln and hilariously he doesn't have grenades... Oh GW, don't ever change!
Also notice they generate their powers from revenant or sanctic, but not being GK's they are gona peril a lot if you go sanctic, seems very limiting on the psychic front. Yvraine doesn't come with the best warlord trait either lol.
All in all this looks like a giant marketing tool to get people to play all the elves rather then one. Obviously the best lists will be craftworld eldar heavy and cherry pick the open topped transports, YAY!
I mean why bother though, 9/10 lists will just be windriders since they couldn't battle focus anyway, so now multiple reborn warhost 3 man scatbikes detachments are more obnoxious since they are the same as before except any time you shoot one unit off the table any other unit within 7" gets a free shot immediately in your turn! Hurray for balanced game design rolling forward! Feth me is this stupid.
Edit: I had no issues with the strength from death rule when it was leaked since it appeared as though Ynari were going to be restricted to formations etc, but the fact that they decided to sandbox the entirety of the eldar race and give them one faction for transport nabbing and continued access to scatbikes just kills me a little inside. If you though it was hard killing aspect shrine warp spiders and wind riders before just consider what allowing them to shoot, move or assault once for free any time you manage to kill one of the suckers. "Oh yay my Genestealer cult finally managed a 6 to assault your warpspiders or windriders, now I just need to survive overwatch THEN if I manage to kill you your fething friends get to delete me in my own turn anyway.
Except you have to follow the unit's rules from their original codexes, so you can only have each unit's normal dedicated transports. Also the detachment only has 3 Fast Attack slots, so you won't be able to spam bikes and cherry pick transports without adding extra formations/detachments. Seems fine to me.
Did you miss the whole chart where Windriders are still a troop option in the detachment? Because they are a troop option in the CAD like detachment meaning I can spam scat bikes like before only now I get to make free actions out of sequence where as before I had battle focus, a rule that did nothing to bikes.
SarisKhan wrote:Well, Soulburst shenanigans do seem powerful. However, they are triggered only when a unit is destroyed and each unit can perform only one Soulburst action per turn. Useful for sure, but how many units get destroyed per turn? Performing a "single turn chain-reaction sweep" seems about as unlikely as the "scatterbikes destroy everything on the table with impunity" back from when the Craftworld codex was released.
Of course, one can arrange their list about this idea and hand out kill points like candy in exchange for additional actions for the units that do remain... Still a trade-off.
Excuse me what? Or since I can take the CWE battlehost detachments I can then take a pale court detachment meaning I can spam warp spiders just like before and let me reiterate like I did before, you lose battle focus BUT you gain free actions from destroying units, or having friends destroyed nearby. Clearly you have never faced a warp spider heavy list from a player that wasn't asleep because it's comically easy to get them close and into postion where they can kill units and because of the exarch and hit and run they won't fail moral and can't be reliably pinned in assault. Heck, kill points? Are you even playing the current edition? Purge the alien is 1 of 12 missions lol.
Crazyterran wrote:The closest thing to worry about those types of shenanigans would be Harlequins sweeping from combat to another combat. If Scatterbikes close to try to use the special rule, they will probably die horribly before getting the chance.
No the craziest thing are warp spiders. All the slippery mobility of before only now with extra shots when they start to table you.
This book adds nothing constructive to the game, thats my main problem. The characters are neat and all but lets be honest they are WAY over priced. I can literally get 2 farseers instead of Yvrain which gets me 6 mastery levels instead of 2 and I get to use the try hard psychic tables. Visarch is worse then a home grown autarch with NO GRENADES and only a 3+ save. The Yncarne was looking promising until you realize for 20 more points you get a wraith knight which for some reason is also an option!
Can fluffy builds be made from this book? Absolutely but notice they didn't really add anything that couldn't be done between the eldar factions prior did they. What they did leave was a wide open door for greater rules bloat and abuse.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Galef wrote: Do we know what Black Gaurdians have that makes them special. I saw the points cost and the Ulthwe Strike force, I'm just wondering what merits their 3pt increase.
I do so look forward to putting my bikes in reserve (avoiding an alpha strike) to Deep Strike in turn 1 with no Scatter into rear armour. Because bike really needed that buff
-
CASE AND POINT! thats a wrap folks, send it to print! This is what I am talking about, armies that already exist and are possible gaining further ways to abuse the system at no tax. (Sorry Galef, I am not trying to pickon you I am actually having a good chuckle over this)
Crazyterran wrote: The closest thing to worry about those types of shenanigans would be Harlequins sweeping from combat to another combat. If Scatterbikes close to try to use the special rule, they will probably die horribly before getting the chance.
I imagine scatter bikes will mainly be getting it off their nearby friends dying. Stick two windrider units next to each other, and when one dies the other can either seek vengeance or turbo boost away. That and activating it for their friends down the field. I'd take that over the battle focus that does nothing on them.
Very, very upset to hear this. No Warlocks in Black Guardian squads? Seriously? They are borderline unusable now.
Not to mention fantastically unfluffy. Ulthwe is Warlock Central.
Isn't that classic GW though. They right rules based on fluff which ends up terrible for rules balance and ironically in the end they even manage to get their own canon wrong
CWE benefits the least from these new rules. Stop thinking so one dimensionally, consider dark eldar and harlequins desperately needed a boost and this benefits them the most. It is not that big of a deal for CWE as you make it out to be. Battle focus is big trade off and scatter bikes aren't as scary as people make them out to be.
2017/02/09 03:16:51
Subject: Re: The Gathering Storm Part II: Page 78 Yvraine video
nintura wrote: From what I've read so far, units inside transports cannot benefit from their ride dying as they are effectively removed from game and the soulburst trigger would happen before they are placed onto the battlefield
I kind of think it's the opposite. The trigger for SfD is the casualty of the vehicle. The casualty must resolve before SfD can begin to resolve. The final step resolving the destruction of a transport is the removal of the vehicle (and the placement of the models inside onto the table) followed by any Pinning tests and/or wounds that need to be resolved on them.
If we do it the other way, where SfD happens before the model is actually removed from play, then you could argue that SfD occurs before wounds dealt by death throes (vehicle explosions, SH vehicles going nova, C'Tan getting their last shot in). There's also no defined point during the casualty resolution that SfD occurs at, so the most reasonable way (to me) seems to be to resolve it after the casualty.
Red Corsair wrote: Gotta see costs first before final judgement. The visarch is s3 t3 3+ save with no invuln and hilariously he doesn't have grenades... Oh GW, don't ever change!
Also notice they generate their powers from revenant or sanctic, but not being GK's they are gona peril a lot if you go sanctic, seems very limiting on the psychic front. Yvraine doesn't come with the best warlord trait either lol.
All in all this looks like a giant marketing tool to get people to play all the elves rather then one. Obviously the best lists will be craftworld eldar heavy and cherry pick the open topped transports, YAY!
I mean why bother though, 9/10 lists will just be windriders since they couldn't battle focus anyway, so now multiple reborn warhost 3 man scatbikes detachments are more obnoxious since they are the same as before except any time you shoot one unit off the table any other unit within 7" gets a free shot immediately in your turn! Hurray for balanced game design rolling forward! Feth me is this stupid.
Edit: I had no issues with the strength from death rule when it was leaked since it appeared as though Ynari were going to be restricted to formations etc, but the fact that they decided to sandbox the entirety of the eldar race and give them one faction for transport nabbing and continued access to scatbikes just kills me a little inside. If you though it was hard killing aspect shrine warp spiders and wind riders before just consider what allowing them to shoot, move or assault once for free any time you manage to kill one of the suckers. "Oh yay my Genestealer cult finally managed a 6 to assault your warpspiders or windriders, now I just need to survive overwatch THEN if I manage to kill you your fething friends get to delete me in my own turn anyway.
Except you have to follow the unit's rules from their original codexes, so you can only have each unit's normal dedicated transports. Also the detachment only has 3 Fast Attack slots, so you won't be able to spam bikes and cherry pick transports without adding extra formations/detachments. Seems fine to me.
Did you miss the whole chart where Windriders are still a troop option in the detachment? Because they are a troop option in the CAD like detachment meaning I can spam scat bikes like before only now I get to make free actions out of sequence where as before I had battle focus, a rule that did nothing to bikes.
SarisKhan wrote:Well, Soulburst shenanigans do seem powerful. However, they are triggered only when a unit is destroyed and each unit can perform only one Soulburst action per turn. Useful for sure, but how many units get destroyed per turn? Performing a "single turn chain-reaction sweep" seems about as unlikely as the "scatterbikes destroy everything on the table with impunity" back from when the Craftworld codex was released.
Of course, one can arrange their list about this idea and hand out kill points like candy in exchange for additional actions for the units that do remain... Still a trade-off.
Excuse me what? Or since I can take the CWE battlehost detachments I can then take a pale court detachment meaning I can spam warp spiders just like before and let me reiterate like I did before, you lose battle focus BUT you gain free actions from destroying units, or having friends destroyed nearby. Clearly you have never faced a warp spider heavy list from a player that wasn't asleep because it's comically easy to get them close and into postion where they can kill units and because of the exarch and hit and run they won't fail moral and can't be reliably pinned in assault. Heck, kill points? Are you even playing the current edition? Purge the alien is 1 of 12 missions lol.
Crazyterran wrote:The closest thing to worry about those types of shenanigans would be Harlequins sweeping from combat to another combat. If Scatterbikes close to try to use the special rule, they will probably die horribly before getting the chance.
No the craziest thing are warp spiders. All the slippery mobility of before only now with extra shots when they start to table you.
This book adds nothing constructive to the game, thats my main problem. The characters are neat and all but lets be honest they are WAY over priced. I can literally get 2 farseers instead of Yvrain which gets me 6 mastery levels instead of 2 and I get to use the try hard psychic tables. Visarch is worse then a home grown autarch with NO GRENADES and only a 3+ save. The Yncarne was looking promising until you realize for 20 more points you get a wraith knight which for some reason is also an option!
Can fluffy builds be made from this book? Absolutely but notice they didn't really add anything that couldn't be done between the eldar factions prior did they. What they did leave was a wide open door for greater rules bloat and abuse.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Galef wrote: Do we know what Black Gaurdians have that makes them special. I saw the points cost and the Ulthwe Strike force, I'm just wondering what merits their 3pt increase.
I do so look forward to putting my bikes in reserve (avoiding an alpha strike) to Deep Strike in turn 1 with no Scatter into rear armour. Because bike really needed that buff
-
CASE AND POINT! thats a wrap folks, send it to print! This is what I am talking about, armies that already exist and are possible gaining further ways to abuse the system at no tax. (Sorry Galef, I am not trying to pickon you I am actually having a good chuckle over this)
Crazyterran wrote: The closest thing to worry about those types of shenanigans would be Harlequins sweeping from combat to another combat. If Scatterbikes close to try to use the special rule, they will probably die horribly before getting the chance.
I imagine scatter bikes will mainly be getting it off their nearby friends dying. Stick two windrider units next to each other, and when one dies the other can either seek vengeance or turbo boost away. That and activating it for their friends down the field. I'd take that over the battle focus that does nothing on them.
Very, very upset to hear this. No Warlocks in Black Guardian squads? Seriously? They are borderline unusable now.
Not to mention fantastically unfluffy. Ulthwe is Warlock Central.
Isn't that classic GW though. They right rules based on fluff which ends up terrible for rules balance and ironically in the end they even manage to get their own canon wrong
CWE benefits the least from these new rules. Stop thinking so one dimensionally, consider dark eldar and harlequins desperately needed a boost and this benefits them the most. It is not that big of a deal for CWE as you make it out to be. Battle focus is big trade off and scatter bikes aren't as scary as people make them out to be.
I play DE as my primary faction. The new rules don't benefit DE nearly as well as PFP and you can't take coven units with this detachment. Literally the two best benefits to DE or harlies in this release is the ease to which you can slot in CWE crutches without the normal tax, if somehow the best troop choice and HQ in the game can be argued for as a tax And that harlies no longer have the idiot taxes they have had levied upon them since their release.
If you think CWE don't benefit from additional shooting phases or movement outside their turn or in rapid succession to murdering you then there is no point in even discussing the release with you and we can simply agree to disagree, or you can use the ignore feature.
2017/02/09 05:44:20
Subject: The Gathering Storm Part II: Page 82 Yncarne video
Both thematically and mechanically mirroring the End Times. Talk to any 8th edition tournament vets about the effects the End Times books had on their meta. This looks very similar.
I am cautiously optimistic about where 8th goes (Mostly because I'm thoroughly exhausted with Bloathammer)
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
2017/02/09 05:57:10
Subject: The Gathering Storm Part II: Page 82 Yncarne video
Eldarain wrote: Both thematically and mechanically mirroring the End Times. Talk to any 8th edition tournament vets about the effects the End Times books had on their meta. This looks very similar.
I am cautiously optimistic about where 8th goes (Mostly because I'm thoroughly exhausted with Bloathammer)
Agreed, each of these gathering storm books so far has added to the existing problems with 40k rather then remedy them. So long as no factions are erased I welcome a total annihilation to the rules set and codex/supplement mess we currently are in. Something similar to Ravening Hordes or free data-slates ala warscrolls could hold everyone over until newer books are released.
GoonBandito wrote: Plot summary for Fracture of Biel-Tan over here if anyone is interested
Thank you sir, that was... quite the read.
Spoiler:
Read like a play by play of visiting most of the major Craftworlds (Saim-Hain in particular sticks out) and all the major Eldar characters just show up without any explanation (like why the Phoenix Lords all show up, no description except Jain Zar). The inclusion of Ahriman was actually pretty cool in my opinion, the way I saw what Yvraine did to the Rubricae was as a hint that Ynnead isn't an Eldar god, but is rather a Chaos god of death and so can capture any souls. The march to Macragge I would complain about if I hadn't already seen Roboute (which isn't exactly something I approve of yet) but now that I know the possible continuations I'm on the fence about it
Eldarain wrote: Both thematically and mechanically mirroring the End Times. Talk to any 8th edition tournament vets about the effects the End Times books had on their meta. This looks very similar.
I am cautiously optimistic about where 8th goes (Mostly because I'm thoroughly exhausted with Bloathammer)
Agreed, each of these gathering storm books so far has added to the existing problems with 40k rather then remedy them. So long as no factions are erased I welcome a total annihilation to the rules set and codex/supplement mess we currently are in. Something similar to Ravening Hordes or free data-slates ala warscrolls could hold everyone over until newer books are released.
Agreed annihilation to the rules set would be good, but wh40k is nowhere near WFB. WFB in 5th edition for sure was bloated and 6th edition was great as it simplified the rules, making the game even better but also get rid of majority of special rules until letter 6th edition AB and 7edtion of course. But WFB 6th editon was total make over with all armies getting almost whole new ranges.
I doubt it will happen with 40k , there too many armies which recently got new ABs/model range, number of factions and subfaction is huge. To make something like Ravening Hordes would be close to impossible.
I guess the best bet is to keep core rules simpler or maybe less bloated and print special rules on warscrolls. And to introduce "Big" Codexes. For example. There is problem with Eldars ? Drop 8th edtion with new "Eldars" Codex which will contain DE,CWE and Harlequins and rules to field them as Ynnari. "Choas" Codex could contain all Chaos factions. And from there on GW can release smaller sub faction when all biggest problems (gameplay wise and army wise in case for example of Eldars) are quite balanced.
2017/02/09 12:37:12
Subject: The Gathering Storm Part II: Page 82 Yncarne video
So we know 4 of the crone swords and the 5th is still back on the other world? So we were right AND wrong in that we thought maybe the Visarch was Yriel but that he must have traded his spear for a sword. Just turns out that his spear itself turned into a crone sword.
I play DE as my primary faction. The new rules don't benefit DE nearly as well as PFP and you can't take coven units with this detachment. Literally the two best benefits to DE or harlies in this release is the ease to which you can slot in CWE crutches without the normal tax, if somehow the best troop choice and HQ in the game can be argued for as a tax And that harlies no longer have the idiot taxes they have had levied upon them since their release.
If you think CWE don't benefit from additional shooting phases or movement outside their turn or in rapid succession to murdering you then there is no point in even discussing the release with you and we can simply agree to disagree, or you can use the ignore feature.
CWE, in general benefit the least from the new rules. That being said, as you stated, it's a major boon to bike spam as they got no buffs from battle focus. So literally any rules that provide any benefit is an upgrade for biker spam. Of course the problem is that bikes didn't need jack nor gak in the way of buffs, so being able to shoot twice a turn on an already high output unit is just loller skates. As for Warp Spiders, I think it's more a side grade for them if anything. Scat bikes are easy to keep in the back near each other to benefit from the new rules, WS want to be up close and personal to bring the pain. Battle focus lets you re-position in order to shoot after all your flicker jumping shenanigans, Soul burst may allow you to re-position if you wipe the unit you fired at. It's possible you could position yourself to shoot at 2 different units with the unit, but that kind of positioning is leaving you open to not clear range in the opponents shooting phase with flicker jump and actually get caught by small arms fire. So, probably a side-grade for WS and then only if you're very clever about positioning.
DE and Harlies become playable with the new rules, though I agree with your assessment that later in the game PfP would be > Soul burst. If you have no issues keeping the bulk of your DE army alive till endgame then you're not really benefiting from these rules other than trading crappy slot options for better CWE options. If like most of us you find very few DE left at endgame to take advantage of PfP, then soul burst may provide you with a bigger benefit. However, I could definitely see MSUDE getting a boost when the venoms inevitably start exploding. Free splinter/blaster born shots could be nice.
Alot will depend on how the transport destruction in relation to passengers is ruled. Also, depends on the wording "as if it were your turn" is determined. Previous turn, or next turn? Cause, if it's next turn this rule becomes bananas (which is why i don't think it'll get ruled that way). Turbo boost up, transport gets destroyed, charge/shoot w/o snap shooting. Pretty sure that's not going to be the ruling, because if so we're going to see a return to ICP harlies.
2017/02/09 13:40:07
Subject: The Gathering Storm Part II: Page 82 Yncarne video
Does anyone have the wording on "Strength in death".
Actually, were it determines what units get that special rule?
Do they mention that, bikes, and warriors, and everything else in all 3 factions pick up that rule?
Read through quite a few times, and had not seen a link or picture of the entry in the book.
2014 Templecon/Onslaught 40k T, Best overall
2015 Templecon/Onslaught 40kGT, Best overall
2015, Nova open 40kGT Semifinalist.
2015 40k Golden Sprue Champ.
2016 Best General Portal Annual Spring 40kGT
2017 Best General, 3rd Annual Winter 40kGT Hosted by The Portal.
2018 Triumph 40k GT. Best Overall.
2018 Best General, 4th Annual Winter 40kGT Hosted by The Portal.
,
2017/02/09 13:50:56
Subject: The Gathering Storm Part II: Page 78 Yvraine video
Red Corsair wrote: Gotta see costs first before final judgement. The visarch is s3 t3 3+ save with no invuln and hilariously he doesn't have grenades... Oh GW, don't ever change!
Also notice they generate their powers from revenant or sanctic, but not being GK's they are gona peril a lot if you go sanctic, seems very limiting on the psychic front. Yvraine doesn't come with the best warlord trait either lol.
All in all this looks like a giant marketing tool to get people to play all the elves rather then one. Obviously the best lists will be craftworld eldar heavy and cherry pick the open topped transports, YAY!
I mean why bother though, 9/10 lists will just be windriders since they couldn't battle focus anyway, so now multiple reborn warhost 3 man scatbikes detachments are more obnoxious since they are the same as before except any time you shoot one unit off the table any other unit within 7" gets a free shot immediately in your turn! Hurray for balanced game design rolling forward! Feth me is this stupid.
Edit: I had no issues with the strength from death rule when it was leaked since it appeared as though Ynari were going to be restricted to formations etc, but the fact that they decided to sandbox the entirety of the eldar race and give them one faction for transport nabbing and continued access to scatbikes just kills me a little inside. If you though it was hard killing aspect shrine warp spiders and wind riders before just consider what allowing them to shoot, move or assault once for free any time you manage to kill one of the suckers. "Oh yay my Genestealer cult finally managed a 6 to assault your warpspiders or windriders, now I just need to survive overwatch THEN if I manage to kill you your fething friends get to delete me in my own turn anyway.
Except you have to follow the unit's rules from their original codexes, so you can only have each unit's normal dedicated transports. Also the detachment only has 3 Fast Attack slots, so you won't be able to spam bikes and cherry pick transports without adding extra formations/detachments. Seems fine to me.
Did you miss the whole chart where Windriders are still a troop option in the detachment? Because they are a troop option in the CAD like detachment meaning I can spam scat bikes like before only now I get to make free actions out of sequence where as before I had battle focus, a rule that did nothing to bikes.
SarisKhan wrote:Well, Soulburst shenanigans do seem powerful. However, they are triggered only when a unit is destroyed and each unit can perform only one Soulburst action per turn. Useful for sure, but how many units get destroyed per turn? Performing a "single turn chain-reaction sweep" seems about as unlikely as the "scatterbikes destroy everything on the table with impunity" back from when the Craftworld codex was released.
Of course, one can arrange their list about this idea and hand out kill points like candy in exchange for additional actions for the units that do remain... Still a trade-off.
Excuse me what? Or since I can take the CWE battlehost detachments I can then take a pale court detachment meaning I can spam warp spiders just like before and let me reiterate like I did before, you lose battle focus BUT you gain free actions from destroying units, or having friends destroyed nearby. Clearly you have never faced a warp spider heavy list from a player that wasn't asleep because it's comically easy to get them close and into postion where they can kill units and because of the exarch and hit and run they won't fail moral and can't be reliably pinned in assault. Heck, kill points? Are you even playing the current edition? Purge the alien is 1 of 12 missions lol.
Crazyterran wrote:The closest thing to worry about those types of shenanigans would be Harlequins sweeping from combat to another combat. If Scatterbikes close to try to use the special rule, they will probably die horribly before getting the chance.
No the craziest thing are warp spiders. All the slippery mobility of before only now with extra shots when they start to table you.
This book adds nothing constructive to the game, thats my main problem. The characters are neat and all but lets be honest they are WAY over priced. I can literally get 2 farseers instead of Yvrain which gets me 6 mastery levels instead of 2 and I get to use the try hard psychic tables. Visarch is worse then a home grown autarch with NO GRENADES and only a 3+ save. The Yncarne was looking promising until you realize for 20 more points you get a wraith knight which for some reason is also an option!
Can fluffy builds be made from this book? Absolutely but notice they didn't really add anything that couldn't be done between the eldar factions prior did they. What they did leave was a wide open door for greater rules bloat and abuse.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Galef wrote: Do we know what Black Gaurdians have that makes them special. I saw the points cost and the Ulthwe Strike force, I'm just wondering what merits their 3pt increase.
I do so look forward to putting my bikes in reserve (avoiding an alpha strike) to Deep Strike in turn 1 with no Scatter into rear armour. Because bike really needed that buff
-
CASE AND POINT! thats a wrap folks, send it to print! This is what I am talking about, armies that already exist and are possible gaining further ways to abuse the system at no tax. (Sorry Galef, I am not trying to pickon you I am actually having a good chuckle over this)
Crazyterran wrote: The closest thing to worry about those types of shenanigans would be Harlequins sweeping from combat to another combat. If Scatterbikes close to try to use the special rule, they will probably die horribly before getting the chance.
I imagine scatter bikes will mainly be getting it off their nearby friends dying. Stick two windrider units next to each other, and when one dies the other can either seek vengeance or turbo boost away. That and activating it for their friends down the field. I'd take that over the battle focus that does nothing on them.
Very, very upset to hear this. No Warlocks in Black Guardian squads? Seriously? They are borderline unusable now.
Not to mention fantastically unfluffy. Ulthwe is Warlock Central.
Isn't that classic GW though. They right rules based on fluff which ends up terrible for rules balance and ironically in the end they even manage to get their own canon wrong
CWE benefits the least from these new rules. Stop thinking so one dimensionally, consider dark eldar and harlequins desperately needed a boost and this benefits them the most. It is not that big of a deal for CWE as you make it out to be. Battle focus is big trade off and scatter bikes aren't as scary as people make them out to be.
So Super Cheese Bikes get a free boost but its ok cos they were not cheese.............hmm
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/09 13:51:52
2017/02/09 13:52:20
Subject: The Gathering Storm Part II: Page 82 Yncarne video
Tsilber wrote: Does anyone have the wording on "Strength in death".
Actually, were it determines what units get that special rule?
Do they mention that, bikes, and warriors, and everything else in all 3 factions pick up that rule?
Read through quite a few times, and had not seen a link or picture of the entry in the book.
Tsilber wrote: Does anyone have the wording on "Strength in death".
Actually, were it determines what units get that special rule?
Do they mention that, bikes, and warriors, and everything else in all 3 factions pick up that rule?
Read through quite a few times, and had not seen a link or picture of the entry in the book.
Guess I should have been more specific, I was looking for the wording in the book itself. A link from an entry in the new book.
Thanks though all the same........
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/09 14:02:29
2014 Templecon/Onslaught 40k T, Best overall
2015 Templecon/Onslaught 40kGT, Best overall
2015, Nova open 40kGT Semifinalist.
2015 40k Golden Sprue Champ.
2016 Best General Portal Annual Spring 40kGT
2017 Best General, 3rd Annual Winter 40kGT Hosted by The Portal.
2018 Triumph 40k GT. Best Overall.
2018 Best General, 4th Annual Winter 40kGT Hosted by The Portal.
,
2017/02/09 14:03:20
Subject: The Gathering Storm Part II: Page 82 Yncarne video
Tsilber wrote: Does anyone have the wording on "Strength in death".
Actually, were it determines what units get that special rule?
Do they mention that, bikes, and warriors, and everything else in all 3 factions pick up that rule?
Read through quite a few times, and had not seen a link or picture of the entry in the book.
But you don't specify the wording on how that happens It hasn't been specified any where. The current debate in my gaming group is whether or not Wraithhost would get Battle Focus AND Strength from Death in a Reborn Warhost, and nobody has posted the actual rule for it so nobody knows :(
Tsilber wrote: Does anyone have the wording on "Strength in death".
Actually, were it determines what units get that special rule?
Do they mention that, bikes, and warriors, and everything else in all 3 factions pick up that rule?
Read through quite a few times, and had not seen a link or picture of the entry in the book.
But you don't specify the wording on how that happens It hasn't been specified any where. The current debate in my gaming group is whether or not Wraithhost would get Battle Focus AND Strength from Death in a Reborn Warhost, and nobody has posted the actual rule for it so nobody knows :(
Thank you.
2014 Templecon/Onslaught 40k T, Best overall
2015 Templecon/Onslaught 40kGT, Best overall
2015, Nova open 40kGT Semifinalist.
2015 40k Golden Sprue Champ.
2016 Best General Portal Annual Spring 40kGT
2017 Best General, 3rd Annual Winter 40kGT Hosted by The Portal.
2018 Triumph 40k GT. Best Overall.
2018 Best General, 4th Annual Winter 40kGT Hosted by The Portal.
,
2017/02/09 14:21:31
Subject: The Gathering Storm Part II: Page 82 Yncarne video
Oh I see it now at the very top of that photo, top paragraph. Honestly read through this thread a few times, and when I got to that link/picture, I just read the rule itself. Apologies.
Gratitude for the link , and your patience
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2015 40k Golden Sprue Champ.
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,
2017/02/09 14:26:14
Subject: The Gathering Storm Part II: Page 82 Yncarne video
nintura wrote: So yeah, it has to have Strength in Death as part of it's own core rules. Wraiths would not, correct?
Everything in the detachment gets Strength from Death, including Wraith units presumably.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
2017/02/09 14:31:45
Subject: The Gathering Storm Part II: Page 82 Yncarne video
Red Corsair wrote: Gotta see costs first before final judgement. The visarch is s3 t3 3+ save with no invuln and hilariously he doesn't have grenades... Oh GW, don't ever change!
Also notice they generate their powers from revenant or sanctic, but not being GK's they are gona peril a lot if you go sanctic, seems very limiting on the psychic front. Yvraine doesn't come with the best warlord trait either lol.
All in all this looks like a giant marketing tool to get people to play all the elves rather then one. Obviously the best lists will be craftworld eldar heavy and cherry pick the open topped transports, YAY!
I mean why bother though, 9/10 lists will just be windriders since they couldn't battle focus anyway, so now multiple reborn warhost 3 man scatbikes detachments are more obnoxious since they are the same as before except any time you shoot one unit off the table any other unit within 7" gets a free shot immediately in your turn! Hurray for balanced game design rolling forward! Feth me is this stupid.
Edit: I had no issues with the strength from death rule when it was leaked since it appeared as though Ynari were going to be restricted to formations etc, but the fact that they decided to sandbox the entirety of the eldar race and give them one faction for transport nabbing and continued access to scatbikes just kills me a little inside. If you though it was hard killing aspect shrine warp spiders and wind riders before just consider what allowing them to shoot, move or assault once for free any time you manage to kill one of the suckers. "Oh yay my Genestealer cult finally managed a 6 to assault your warpspiders or windriders, now I just need to survive overwatch THEN if I manage to kill you your fething friends get to delete me in my own turn anyway.
Except you have to follow the unit's rules from their original codexes, so you can only have each unit's normal dedicated transports. Also the detachment only has 3 Fast Attack slots, so you won't be able to spam bikes and cherry pick transports without adding extra formations/detachments. Seems fine to me.
Did you miss the whole chart where Windriders are still a troop option in the detachment? Because they are a troop option in the CAD like detachment meaning I can spam scat bikes like before only now I get to make free actions out of sequence where as before I had battle focus, a rule that did nothing to bikes.
SarisKhan wrote:Well, Soulburst shenanigans do seem powerful. However, they are triggered only when a unit is destroyed and each unit can perform only one Soulburst action per turn. Useful for sure, but how many units get destroyed per turn? Performing a "single turn chain-reaction sweep" seems about as unlikely as the "scatterbikes destroy everything on the table with impunity" back from when the Craftworld codex was released.
Of course, one can arrange their list about this idea and hand out kill points like candy in exchange for additional actions for the units that do remain... Still a trade-off.
Excuse me what? Or since I can take the CWE battlehost detachments I can then take a pale court detachment meaning I can spam warp spiders just like before and let me reiterate like I did before, you lose battle focus BUT you gain free actions from destroying units, or having friends destroyed nearby. Clearly you have never faced a warp spider heavy list from a player that wasn't asleep because it's comically easy to get them close and into postion where they can kill units and because of the exarch and hit and run they won't fail moral and can't be reliably pinned in assault. Heck, kill points? Are you even playing the current edition? Purge the alien is 1 of 12 missions lol.
Crazyterran wrote:The closest thing to worry about those types of shenanigans would be Harlequins sweeping from combat to another combat. If Scatterbikes close to try to use the special rule, they will probably die horribly before getting the chance.
No the craziest thing are warp spiders. All the slippery mobility of before only now with extra shots when they start to table you.
This book adds nothing constructive to the game, thats my main problem. The characters are neat and all but lets be honest they are WAY over priced. I can literally get 2 farseers instead of Yvrain which gets me 6 mastery levels instead of 2 and I get to use the try hard psychic tables. Visarch is worse then a home grown autarch with NO GRENADES and only a 3+ save. The Yncarne was looking promising until you realize for 20 more points you get a wraith knight which for some reason is also an option!
Can fluffy builds be made from this book? Absolutely but notice they didn't really add anything that couldn't be done between the eldar factions prior did they. What they did leave was a wide open door for greater rules bloat and abuse.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Galef wrote: Do we know what Black Gaurdians have that makes them special. I saw the points cost and the Ulthwe Strike force, I'm just wondering what merits their 3pt increase.
I do so look forward to putting my bikes in reserve (avoiding an alpha strike) to Deep Strike in turn 1 with no Scatter into rear armour. Because bike really needed that buff
-
CASE AND POINT! thats a wrap folks, send it to print! This is what I am talking about, armies that already exist and are possible gaining further ways to abuse the system at no tax. (Sorry Galef, I am not trying to pickon you I am actually having a good chuckle over this)
Crazyterran wrote: The closest thing to worry about those types of shenanigans would be Harlequins sweeping from combat to another combat. If Scatterbikes close to try to use the special rule, they will probably die horribly before getting the chance.
I imagine scatter bikes will mainly be getting it off their nearby friends dying. Stick two windrider units next to each other, and when one dies the other can either seek vengeance or turbo boost away. That and activating it for their friends down the field. I'd take that over the battle focus that does nothing on them.
Very, very upset to hear this. No Warlocks in Black Guardian squads? Seriously? They are borderline unusable now.
Not to mention fantastically unfluffy. Ulthwe is Warlock Central.
Isn't that classic GW though. They right rules based on fluff which ends up terrible for rules balance and ironically in the end they even manage to get their own canon wrong
Red Corsair wrote: CWE benefits the least from these new rules. Stop thinking so one dimensionally, consider dark eldar and harlequins desperately needed a boost and this benefits them the most. It is not that big of a deal for CWE as you make it out to be. Battle focus is big trade off and scatter bikes aren't as scary as people make them out to be.
I play DE as my primary faction. The new rules don't benefit DE nearly as well as PFP and you can't take coven units with this detachment. Literally the two best benefits to DE or harlies in this release is the ease to which you can slot in CWE crutches without the normal tax, if somehow the best troop choice and HQ in the game can be argued for as a tax And that harlies no longer have the idiot taxes they have had levied upon them since their release.
If you think CWE don't benefit from additional shooting phases or movement outside their turn or in rapid succession to murdering you then there is no point in even discussing the release with you and we can simply agree to disagree, or you can use the ignore feature.
I also play DE as my main and if you can't see how you can squeeze some awesome tactics from this then I would suggest to try harder. It might be easier for me to imagine though since I play a pure glass cannon and have no covens units. I also think pfp wasn't that great, especially for a shooty army.
Again I think the boosts versus the trade offs for CWE are being exaggerated. As long as forge world isn't included in the benefits, I don't see CWE getting much of a boost outside of this pure scatterbike spammy list with wraith Knights, which isn't even a top eldar tournament list nowadays. The likelihood of any of us playing any of these spammy lists in normal matches anyway is very slim.
Now if CWE start incorporating dark eldar or even harlequins to make the most of these rules, that's another story.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/02/09 15:23:32
2017/02/09 15:21:01
Subject: The Gathering Storm Part II: Page 78 Yvraine video
Red Corsair wrote: Gotta see costs first before final judgement. The visarch is s3 t3 3+ save with no invuln and hilariously he doesn't have grenades... Oh GW, don't ever change!
Also notice they generate their powers from revenant or sanctic, but not being GK's they are gona peril a lot if you go sanctic, seems very limiting on the psychic front. Yvraine doesn't come with the best warlord trait either lol.
All in all this looks like a giant marketing tool to get people to play all the elves rather then one. Obviously the best lists will be craftworld eldar heavy and cherry pick the open topped transports, YAY!
I mean why bother though, 9/10 lists will just be windriders since they couldn't battle focus anyway, so now multiple reborn warhost 3 man scatbikes detachments are more obnoxious since they are the same as before except any time you shoot one unit off the table any other unit within 7" gets a free shot immediately in your turn! Hurray for balanced game design rolling forward! Feth me is this stupid.
Edit: I had no issues with the strength from death rule when it was leaked since it appeared as though Ynari were going to be restricted to formations etc, but the fact that they decided to sandbox the entirety of the eldar race and give them one faction for transport nabbing and continued access to scatbikes just kills me a little inside. If you though it was hard killing aspect shrine warp spiders and wind riders before just consider what allowing them to shoot, move or assault once for free any time you manage to kill one of the suckers. "Oh yay my Genestealer cult finally managed a 6 to assault your warpspiders or windriders, now I just need to survive overwatch THEN if I manage to kill you your fething friends get to delete me in my own turn anyway.
Except you have to follow the unit's rules from their original codexes, so you can only have each unit's normal dedicated transports. Also the detachment only has 3 Fast Attack slots, so you won't be able to spam bikes and cherry pick transports without adding extra formations/detachments. Seems fine to me.
Did you miss the whole chart where Windriders are still a troop option in the detachment? Because they are a troop option in the CAD like detachment meaning I can spam scat bikes like before only now I get to make free actions out of sequence where as before I had battle focus, a rule that did nothing to bikes.
SarisKhan wrote:Well, Soulburst shenanigans do seem powerful. However, they are triggered only when a unit is destroyed and each unit can perform only one Soulburst action per turn. Useful for sure, but how many units get destroyed per turn? Performing a "single turn chain-reaction sweep" seems about as unlikely as the "scatterbikes destroy everything on the table with impunity" back from when the Craftworld codex was released.
Of course, one can arrange their list about this idea and hand out kill points like candy in exchange for additional actions for the units that do remain... Still a trade-off.
Excuse me what? Or since I can take the CWE battlehost detachments I can then take a pale court detachment meaning I can spam warp spiders just like before and let me reiterate like I did before, you lose battle focus BUT you gain free actions from destroying units, or having friends destroyed nearby. Clearly you have never faced a warp spider heavy list from a player that wasn't asleep because it's comically easy to get them close and into postion where they can kill units and because of the exarch and hit and run they won't fail moral and can't be reliably pinned in assault. Heck, kill points? Are you even playing the current edition? Purge the alien is 1 of 12 missions lol.
Crazyterran wrote:The closest thing to worry about those types of shenanigans would be Harlequins sweeping from combat to another combat. If Scatterbikes close to try to use the special rule, they will probably die horribly before getting the chance.
No the craziest thing are warp spiders. All the slippery mobility of before only now with extra shots when they start to table you.
This book adds nothing constructive to the game, thats my main problem. The characters are neat and all but lets be honest they are WAY over priced. I can literally get 2 farseers instead of Yvrain which gets me 6 mastery levels instead of 2 and I get to use the try hard psychic tables. Visarch is worse then a home grown autarch with NO GRENADES and only a 3+ save. The Yncarne was looking promising until you realize for 20 more points you get a wraith knight which for some reason is also an option!
Can fluffy builds be made from this book? Absolutely but notice they didn't really add anything that couldn't be done between the eldar factions prior did they. What they did leave was a wide open door for greater rules bloat and abuse.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Galef wrote: Do we know what Black Gaurdians have that makes them special. I saw the points cost and the Ulthwe Strike force, I'm just wondering what merits their 3pt increase.
I do so look forward to putting my bikes in reserve (avoiding an alpha strike) to Deep Strike in turn 1 with no Scatter into rear armour. Because bike really needed that buff
-
CASE AND POINT! thats a wrap folks, send it to print! This is what I am talking about, armies that already exist and are possible gaining further ways to abuse the system at no tax. (Sorry Galef, I am not trying to pickon you I am actually having a good chuckle over this)
Crazyterran wrote: The closest thing to worry about those types of shenanigans would be Harlequins sweeping from combat to another combat. If Scatterbikes close to try to use the special rule, they will probably die horribly before getting the chance.
I imagine scatter bikes will mainly be getting it off their nearby friends dying. Stick two windrider units next to each other, and when one dies the other can either seek vengeance or turbo boost away. That and activating it for their friends down the field. I'd take that over the battle focus that does nothing on them.
Very, very upset to hear this. No Warlocks in Black Guardian squads? Seriously? They are borderline unusable now.
Not to mention fantastically unfluffy. Ulthwe is Warlock Central.
Isn't that classic GW though. They right rules based on fluff which ends up terrible for rules balance and ironically in the end they even manage to get their own canon wrong
CWE benefits the least from these new rules. Stop thinking so one dimensionally, consider dark eldar and harlequins desperately needed a boost and this benefits them the most. It is not that big of a deal for CWE as you make it out to be. Battle focus is big trade off and scatter bikes aren't as scary as people make them out to be.
I play DE as my primary faction. The new rules don't benefit DE nearly as well as PFP and you can't take coven units with this detachment. Literally the two best benefits to DE or harlies in this release is the ease to which you can slot in CWE crutches without the normal tax, if somehow the best troop choice and HQ in the game can be argued for as a tax And that harlies no longer have the idiot taxes they have had levied upon them since their release.
If you think CWE don't benefit from additional shooting phases or movement outside their turn or in rapid succession to murdering you then there is no point in even discussing the release with you and we can simply agree to disagree, or you can use the ignore feature.
I also play DE as my main and if you can't see how you can squeeze some awesome tactics from this then I would suggest to try harder. It might be easier for me to imagine though since I play a pure glass cannon and have no covens units. I also think pfp wasn't that great, especially for a shooty army.
Again I think the boosts versus the trade offs for CWE are being exaggerated. As long as forge world isn't included in the benefits, I don't see CWE getting much of a boost outside of this pure scatterbike spammy list with wraith Knights, which isn't even a top eldar tournament list nowadays. The likelihood of any of us playing any of these spammy lists in normal matches anyway is very slim.
Now if CWE start incorporating dark eldar or even harlequins to make the most of these rules, that's another story.
Why do you keep posting this? I keep seeing that opening line
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/09 15:21:21
2017/02/09 15:25:33
Subject: The Gathering Storm Part II: Page 82 Yncarne video
I had to edit a few times, the quotation macro was acting all wonky.
Also I would like to know how other people interpret the rules for the triumvirate where if an aeldari model dies near them they roll on a 4+ etc. If all three of the ynnead characters were 7" away from a aeldari casualty would they all get to roll for their special rule?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/09 15:32:33
