Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP

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**Blueguy203**

I was just thinking why not bring in Wraiths, atleast this way the Nightbringer has some help tearing into unit, plus the Wraiths have that 3+ inv save. Actually just reading more into the Wraith form, i think this might be our answer to attacking supporting Characters behind blobs of weaker troops as it states in thier rules that they can move through terrain and models as if they were not there. who is to say that we need to be worried about being locked up in an unwanted combat when we can just walk through them and go after our target? I believe the Wraith Knight has something similar in the form of being able to walk over infantry units.

**Pyrothem**

Tomb Blades can do this as well because of the fly rule

**Kuguar6**

Blueguy203 wrote:
I was just thinking why not bring in Wraiths, atleast this way the Nightbringer has some help tearing into unit, plus the Wraiths have that 3+ inv save. Actually just reading more into the Wraith form, i think this might be our answer to attacking supporting Characters behind blobs of weaker troops as it states in thier rules that they can move through terrain and models as if they were not there. who is to say that we need to be worried about being locked up in an unwanted combat when we can just walk through them and go after our target? I believe the Wraith Knight has something similar in the form of being able to walk over infantry units.

Nightbringer with Wraiths can charge by the wall and forgot about overwatch. Scarabs can only charge around corner.
But i dont like new Wraiths. I play vs psykers and smite kill them fast.
Also they atack have only 1 dmg and -1 ap. Another CC unit for this point get upgrade to dmg.

**sieGermans**

Given the recent FAQ clarifying the phraseology of "rolls to hit" and their interaction with modifiers, I'm guessing that means we lose our MWBD + Tesla interaction?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is a sequence description from another forum:

Here is a step by step breakdown that I found on reddit that I believe is correct:

Sequence of Events
1) Standard rolls.
2) Distinguish failed from passed.
3) Re-rolls
4) Apply Modifiers
5) Check Statements
Scenario
A Space Marine (BS3+) is firing at a XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit.
The Space Marine is using a plasma gun.
The Space Marine is benefiting from a re-roll all failed to hit rolls.
The Space Marine uses the supercharge profile of his plasma gun.
The Ghostkeel is more than 12" away from the Space Marine, thus the Space Marine has -1 to hit rolls.
The Ghostkeel is also within 3" of a stealth drone, giving the Space Marine another -1 to hit rolls (Total of -2 to hit rolls)
Scenario - Sequence of Events
1) Standard rolls: As the Space Marine pulls the trigger, for the sake of this example, lets say he has 6 shots and every possibility from the to hit roll is rolled (1,2,3,4,5,6).
2) Distinguish failed from passed: Being BS3+, the Space Marine theoretically misses (1,2).
3) Re-rolls: The (1,2) dice are re-rolled, the result being are (4,5). Having (3,4,4,5,5,6) as the new result.
4) Apply Modifiers: From (3,4,4,5,5,6) the modified result is (1,2,2,3,3,4) due to -2 to hit rolls.
5) Check Statements: The Space Marine managed to land 3 shots (3,3,4) however the (1) which was previously a (3) did not get re-rolled since he did pass the test, but after the modifiers turned into a lethal (1). Due to the supercharge rule, the model is slain.

Long story shot don't overcharge plasma when you have minuses to hit.

**neenj**

Can you replace a staff of light with crackling tendrils for no cost? Sorry if this has been asked already.

**Aenar**

sieGermans wrote:
Given the recent FAQ clarifying the phraseology of "rolls to hit" and their interaction with modifiers, I'm guessing that means we lose our MWBD + Tesla interaction?

Why would we lose it?

MWBD give +1 To Hit (among the other bonuses).
Tesla says that on a hit roll of 6+ it triggers its effect.
The FAQ/Designers' Commentary says that:

Q: If a rule states that an ability triggers on, for
example, ‘hit rolls of 6+’, does this refer to the result of
the dice rolls before or after modifiers are applied?
A: It refers to the final result, after re-rolls and modifiers
(if any) have been applied.

In my interpretation, MWBD allows Tesla Immortals to proc on hit rolls of 5+ (after applying its modifier).

**neenj**

Derp never mind I found the melee weapons list.

Also found out that I could've just edited my previous response...

**skoffs**

Why wouldn't this work for Tesla?
Check the below scenario with MWBD-

Sequence of Events
1) Standard rolls. (roll four dice: one 1, one 2, one 5, one 6)
2) Distinguish failed from passed. (1 and 2 are failed)
3) Re-rolls (irrelevant, unless shooting at the same target as a Stalker, in which case the 1 could be rerolled. For simplicity's sake we'll say we're not)
4) Apply Modifiers (the remaining 5 gets a +1, making it a 6)
5) Check Statements ("6s get +2 hits" from Tesla rule. You now have two 6s, so you score six hits)

**sieGermans**

Awesome! I just wanted to check before I do this with my mates.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Yes, MWBD works for tesla. It also means that if you advance or shoot at an airborne target you won't be able to proc the tesla effect.
Its an overall nerf, imo.

**KhazModan**

skoffs wrote:
Why wouldn't this work for Tesla?
Check the below scenario with MWBD-

Sequence of Events
1) Standard rolls. (roll four dice: one 1, one 2, one 5, one 6)
2) Distinguish failed from passed. (1 and 2 are failed)
3) Re-rolls (irrelevant, unless shooting at the same target as a Stalker, in which case the 1 could be rerolled. For simplicity's sake we'll say we're not)
4) Apply Modifiers (the remaining 5 gets a +1, making it a 6)
5) Check Statements ("6s get +2 hits" from Tesla rule. You now have two 6s, so you score six hits)

So that means that it would be impossible to get the tesla 6+ if you have a -1 to hit and no positive modifier?

**CthuluIsSpy**

KhazModan wrote:
skoffs wrote:
Why wouldn't this work for Tesla?
Check the below scenario with MWBD-

Sequence of Events
1) Standard rolls. (roll four dice: one 1, one 2, one 5, one 6)
2) Distinguish failed from passed. (1 and 2 are failed)
3) Re-rolls (irrelevant, unless shooting at the same target as a Stalker, in which case the 1 could be rerolled. For simplicity's sake we'll say we're not)
4) Apply Modifiers (the remaining 5 gets a +1, making it a 6)
5) Check Statements ("6s get +2 hits" from Tesla rule. You now have two 6s, so you score six hits)

So that means that it would be impossible to get the tesla 6+ if you have a -1 to hit and no positive modifier?

Logically, yes. That's why this isn't really a buff for tesla, because whilst tesla may get improved by an overlord, it becomes signficantly weaker against flyers, if you advance, at night or against anything else with a - hit modifier. You could use an overlord to circumvent it at least, but only if its infantry.
So Anni barges are even weaker now.

On the plus side though, overwatch will always proc tesla if it hits, so the annibarge has that going for it at least

**KhazModan**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
KhazModan wrote:
skoffs wrote:
Why wouldn't this work for Tesla?
Check the below scenario with MWBD-

Sequence of Events
1) Standard rolls. (roll four dice: one 1, one 2, one 5, one 6)
2) Distinguish failed from passed. (1 and 2 are failed)
3) Re-rolls (irrelevant, unless shooting at the same target as a Stalker, in which case the 1 could be rerolled. For simplicity's sake we'll say we're not)
4) Apply Modifiers (the remaining 5 gets a +1, making it a 6)
5) Check Statements ("6s get +2 hits" from Tesla rule. You now have two 6s, so you score six hits)

So that means that it would be impossible to get the tesla 6+ if you have a -1 to hit and no positive modifier?

Logically, yes. That's why this isn't really a buff for tesla, because whilst tesla may get improved by an overlord, it becomes signficantly weaker against flyers, if you advance, at night or against anything else with a - hit modifier. You could use an overlord to circumvent it at least, but only if its infantry.
So Anni barges are even weaker now.

On the plus side though, overwatch will always proc tesla if it hits, so the annibarge has that going for it at least

So all of our fliers can´t get at tesla his since they have to move and hence gets the -1 to hit. Well that ruins things. It would have been so much easier if they just would have said “on a natural 6”.

**Requizen**

KhazModan wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
KhazModan wrote:
skoffs wrote:
Why wouldn't this work for Tesla?
Check the below scenario with MWBD-

Sequence of Events
1) Standard rolls. (roll four dice: one 1, one 2, one 5, one 6)
2) Distinguish failed from passed. (1 and 2 are failed)
3) Re-rolls (irrelevant, unless shooting at the same target as a Stalker, in which case the 1 could be rerolled. For simplicity's sake we'll say we're not)
4) Apply Modifiers (the remaining 5 gets a +1, making it a 6)
5) Check Statements ("6s get +2 hits" from Tesla rule. You now have two 6s, so you score six hits)

So that means that it would be impossible to get the tesla 6+ if you have a -1 to hit and no positive modifier?

Logically, yes. That's why this isn't really a buff for tesla, because whilst tesla may get improved by an overlord, it becomes signficantly weaker against flyers, if you advance, at night or against anything else with a - hit modifier. You could use an overlord to circumvent it at least, but only if its infantry.
So Anni barges are even weaker now.

On the plus side though, overwatch will always proc tesla if it hits, so the annibarge has that going for it at least

So all of our fliers can´t get at tesla his since they have to move and hence gets the -1 to hit. Well that ruins things. It would have been so much easier if they just would have said “on a natural 6”.

Tesla Destructors are Assault bro

**Kuguar6**

KhazModan wrote:
CthuluIsSpy wrote:
KhazModan wrote:
skoffs wrote:
Why wouldn't this work for Tesla?
Check the below scenario with MWBD-

Sequence of Events
1) Standard rolls. (roll four dice: one 1, one 2, one 5, one 6)
2) Distinguish failed from passed. (1 and 2 are failed)
3) Re-rolls (irrelevant, unless shooting at the same target as a Stalker, in which case the 1 could be rerolled. For simplicity's sake we'll say we're not)
4) Apply Modifiers (the remaining 5 gets a +1, making it a 6)
5) Check Statements ("6s get +2 hits" from Tesla rule. You now have two 6s, so you score six hits)

So that means that it would be impossible to get the tesla 6+ if you have a -1 to hit and no positive modifier?

Logically, yes. That's why this isn't really a buff for tesla, because whilst tesla may get improved by an overlord, it becomes signficantly weaker against flyers, if you advance, at night or against anything else with a - hit modifier. You could use an overlord to circumvent it at least, but only if its infantry.
So Anni barges are even weaker now.

On the plus side though, overwatch will always proc tesla if it hits, so the annibarge has that going for it at least

So all of our fliers can´t get at tesla his since they have to move and hence gets the -1 to hit. Well that ruins things. It would have been so much easier if they just would have said “on a natural 6”.

No. -1 to hit its only for moving with heavy weapon. Tesla is assault so you can move with it.

**KhazModan**

Tesla Destructors are Assault bro

**Draco765**

KhazModan wrote:

So all of our fliers can't get at tesla his since they have to move and hence gets the -1 to hit. Well that ruins things. It would have been so much easier if they just would have said “on a natural 6”.

Only if you advance (+20") and then Shoot, since Tesla Destructor is an Assault weapon.

**CthuluIsSpy**

KhazModan wrote:

Tesla Destructors are Assault bro

Oh,

**skoffs**

Gauss Cannons may be better at killing things with their AP-3, but because they're heavy they're going to get the -1 to hit if it moved. All Tesla is assault so it doesn't really care if it moves, just so long as it doesn't advance. Typically you want the Annihilation Barge moving, so T.Cannons tend to be the better bet in that case.

**str00dles1**

Not seeing lychguard make lists. Are they just not worth taking?

**bort123**

soooo... MWBD gives +1 to hit rolls "until the beginning of my next turn".

now. if I MWBD tesla immortals, who then get charged in my enemy's turn, MWBD is still active.
overwatch hits on unmodified 6s, BUT - all 5s still technically count as 6s. and causes "3 hits instead of one" on 6s.

I am fairly certain that the wording "3 hits INSTEAD OF ONE" implies that my 5s cause no hits (because there is no one hit I can get 3 instead of), but i'd still like to throw the argument in the ring and see what happens xD

**CthuluIsSpy**

I think they might be worth taking. I predict that later on people will work out that snipers can really mess up our durabilty by getting rid of the buffs, so Lychguard might start seeing some play to make use of their body guard ability.
As an offensive unit they still have the problem of a lack of a delivery system.

In fact, I think lychguard might be one of the few units in the game who can do that; I don't see any other unit who can do that, other than Deddog (a character) and GSC (army wide special rule)

**Requizen**

str00dles1 wrote:Not seeing lychguard make lists. Are they just not worth taking?

Still the same problems as before. Extremely slow, resilient against shooting but often not enough to slog across the table at a 5" move. Warscythes are great and you can easily give them a 5++, but if someone shoots enough Autocannons at them they'll go down in a couple turns unless you roll super hot.

It's a bit easier to use them with Night Scythes now, but that has problems of its own.

bort123 wrote:soooo... MWBD gives +1 to hit rolls "until the beginning of my next turn".

now. if I MWBD tesla immortals, who then get charged in my enemy's turn, MWBD is still active.
overwatch hits on unmodified 6s, BUT - all 5s still technically count as 6s. and causes "3 hits instead of one" on 6s.

I am fairly certain that the wording "3 hits INSTEAD OF ONE" implies that my 5s cause no hits (because there is no one hit I can get 3 instead of), but i'd still like to throw the argument in the ring and see what happens xD

You can never modify the Overwatch roll. Your 5s don't count as 6s, they are unmodified.

**Cmdr_Sune**

So the Hemlock Wraithfighter is ridiculously good and 40 points cheaper than a Doom Scythe with similiar stats.

... or it's a typo on the Wraithfighters weapons profile where it says that it auto hits.

That does however not change the fact that Doom Scythes still sucks

**CthuluIsSpy**

Cmdr_Sune wrote:
So the Hemlock Wraithfighter is ridiculously good and 40 points cheaper than a Doom Scythe with similiar stats.

... or it's a typo on the Wraithfighters weapons profile where it says that it auto hits.

That does however not change the fact that Doom Scythes still sucks

Yeah, Eldar flyers are cheaper and better than Doom Scythes at what they do.
I think someone at GW had a grudge against necrons.

**torblind**

Grimgold wrote:
Hakumei wrote:
I watched that batrep. Lots of tactical errors on the Necron player's part.

The public one, certainly. His warriors more or less carried him to what victory points he achieved, and an annihilation barge had no place in that fight. He held his lychguard back for too long, and when it came time to put the petal to the metal they were sorely lacking. I think he should have massed fire at the deathwing instead of trying to duke it out with them.

The second one felt like the ad mech players game to lose, and no spoilers, but things did not got the way i expected.

I finally got around to watch the match, over a couple nights, (family, life, etc. takes time) - what did you find to be unexpected about it? (Could perhaps write in a spoiler not to give any... spoilers

**Grimgold**

ok so spoilers

Spoiler:

**Kuguar6**

str00dles1 wrote:
Not seeing lychguard make lists. Are they just not worth taking?

As guard they are easy to play but not good. Alternative you can take combo with anrakyr and give +1 A. With warscate you lychguard turn into deadly cc. For same opponents or battelfield it can be very useful. But still slow. Mayby nightscate or deciver are key to deal with it?

**Grimgold**

The trick to lychguard is using them as a deterrent/counter charger, because they are not catching anything that isn't already trapped in combat. They are a little too situational for me to include them in my list, which is disappointing.

**Dionysodorus**

I'm surprised lychguard don't see more play. I'll try to try some out in the next week or so.

With a Cryptek for a 5++ they can stick with warscythes, and then a 10-man unit has as many wounds as a full Warrior squad and a nice enough invulnerable save to make them hard to remove with plasma. You need to deliver them, still, which I guess would be the Deceiver or that pair of HQs that allow for teleportation. You're only paying 15 points per wound and they're fairly efficient anti-tank if you can get them there.