Old INDEX Necron 8th Tactica - link to new codex tactics thread in OP

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**Klowny**

So just found out it's a 2k tournament, no ITC rules, straight rule book and Errata. I have changed my list to the following.

Spoiler:

This list is fairly flexible in its response to different types of armies. Fast CC means it turtles together, and the sheer weight of fire should carry me through. Against more slower/static I can GI the warriors into cover and rapid fire range, and stick the Deciever in there as a Cc counter charge.

The pylon and DDA stay protected by the Scarabs in the back corner of the field, supported by the spyder. There's enough firepower to counter the Magnus/Knight/Brimstone spam. It's a hard counter to Knight lists. It should do well against the parking lot, DE raider spam, will slow the harlies advance, and they won't be able to kill it before it kills them.

The Scarabs, spyder and DDA get a 5++ making them very tough, the spyder regens the pylon and Scarabs. There's a big enough footprint to deny all deepstrike threat, even plasma/melta. And Scarabs can just fall back, and the short range firepower is even stronger than afar. This is an alpha strike list.

It would struggle with green tide, Genestealer spam, and maybe the storm talon spam due to going second.

Toholk gives a 30% chance of seizing the initiative, meaning a lucky roll against the storm talon flyer spam list enables my alpha strike to take out a lot of firepower on their side. It's not guaranteed but you never know.

FO are too expensive of a unit to just deepstrike in and charge. They're still fragile without help. And they won't be getting support in my list. It's all about the pylon. It's enough of a fire magnet my other units can work the objectives as healthy as possible.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The T.ark is mobile and tough, I need fast units to grab objectives, which is what the T.ark has over a second DDA. I'm playtesting this against HWT and scion DS spam and the Magnus/Knight/Brimstone list this week, will let you guys know.

**skoffs**

^
I'm assuming the above was meant to be a Spearhead detachment, not Vanguard (not enough Elites, but plenty of Heavy)

**Klowny**

skoffs wrote:
^
I'm assuming the above was meant to be a Spearhead detachment, not Vanguard (not enough Elites, but plenty of Heavy)

I always do this! Haha thanks skoffs

**skoffs**

Interestingly enough, the Imperial Armour FAQs for Xenos just came out... but there were no Necron entries.
Does that mean there are no issues with any of our FW stuff?

**Klowny**

The only thing I was wondering about was the pylon tesla pistol not having the tesla rule.....

But I'm glad, means the pylon is still strong and it's points haven't been adjusted

**Actinium**

I figured the gauss pylon not listing/paying for its tele matrix or that the teslark being the only 10 wound vehicle in the game whose profile degrades at 4 wounds instead of 5 would be faq'd but i'm cool with keeping those if they are.

**Hiddius**

Most of the lists I've seen is comprised of either DDA, Heavy Destoyers, Teslarks, Sentry or Gauss Pylons as our Big hitters vs veichles and monsters.
But we need to remember that Necrons is also an opponent.

And with the current "meta" shifting to some kind of QS spam within our faction, what is the go-to unit to counter QS? The second profile on Teslarks is fine, albeit Str 5, and Gauss weapons in general seems to be ok. But we need alot of Gauss to break a DDA.

Is there anything else that counter QS, as we dont really have any access to high strength 2/3 damage weapons?

**Klowny**

Hiddius wrote:
Most of the lists I've seen is comprised of either DDA, Heavy Destoyers, Teslarks, Sentry or Gauss Pylons as our Big hitters vs veichles and monsters.
But we need to remember that Necrons is also an opponent.

And with the current "meta" shifting to some kind of QS spam within our faction, what is the go-to unit to counter QS? The second profile on Teslarks is fine, albeit Str 5, and Gauss weapons in general seems to be ok. But we need alot of Gauss to break a DDA.

Is there anything else that counter QS, as we dont really have any access to high strength 2/3 damage weapons?

warscythes and ROC, C'tan in CC.

Remember if our big guns cant hurt their vehicles, their big guns cant hurt our vehicles just as much

**Actinium**

I'd say teslarks are the best vehicles for the mirror match because all our anti tank stuff is wasting its time against each other so it's a race to kill the other side's silver tide portion fastest and the grav cannon and cham flamer modes really bone all of our infantry options. The toughness 7 also helps curb the efficacy of enemy warscythes or the oddball weapon that's good against qs like particle shredders that would wound the other t6 vehicles on a 3+.

**Slayer-Fan123**

I actually think regular Destroyers are the best answer to a QSpam list.
1. They have the natural speed to get in range.
2. They wound on a 5+, which isn't hard in larger numbers.
3. D3 damage is hard for the QS to bypass, as the average is 2.

**skoffs**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They wound on a 5+, which isn't hard in larger numbers.

Therein lies the problem.
(Destroyers are too expensive to take in large numbers)

**Actinium**

When is 'before the battle begins' for generating c'tan powers exactly? Can you wait and see your opponent's army, list, or even their set up before you pick or does it mean during list building?

**Klowny**

So I've been thinking. Initially I dropped the stalker from my list due to the pylon not needing the buff.

But..... lots and lots of armies seem to be bringing flyers with hard to hit. While my Pylon is good against them, I think a stalker is still necessary.

Ive seen a lot of Imperium lists with 6-8 flyers with hard to hit.... I have a TA and DDA that would massively benefit from the +1.

It would mean I'd have to drop the deceiver, but the extra big gun and +1 I feel is necessary.

Also having an extra vehicle reduces the damage that stormtalon spam can do while also potentially dropping a third flyer a turn.

If I drop the deceiver I lose T1 rapid fire from my warriors, and it almost guarantees I turtle most games until my scarabs and TA/GA are safe to grab objectives. But its a very savage, long range gunline that is also very durable. I still have 20x warriors and a GA for hordes, I gain extra scarabs for an even bigger DS deny footprint. Once T3 is about I can start moving everything. It better counters flyer spam, parking lots and vehicles in general. Turtling against DS genestealer blobs for example and having a 5++ negates their rend mechanic, and they will be wiped the second I fall back, all while my big guns still obliterate their backline.

I feel hordes are still going to be in trucks, and while hordes are still fast without vehicles, they are alot less durable. Popping a transport or 2 T1 in their deployment zone neuters the CC unit inside well enough that I can focus the closer ones before they get to me.

What do you guys think?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Actinium wrote:
When is 'before the battle begins' for generating c'tan powers exactly? Can you wait and see your opponent's army, list, or even their set up before you pick or does it mean during list building?

The tournament I'm going to allows for psychic powers to be picked before each game, meaning you can tailor your army to suit. I feel the C'tan powers will be ruled the same.

**torblind**

What +1 is this? Doesn't the Stalker let you reroll 1s?

Should be a nice benefit for the pylon.

Pylon has 2+ +1 against fly, should have no problem with hard to hit (still 2+)

**Odrankt**

But..... lots and lots of armies seem to be bringing flyers with hard to hit. While my Pylon is good against them, I think a stalker is still necessary.

Ive seen a lot of Imperium lists with 6-8 flyers with hard to hit.... I have a TA and DDA that would massively benefit from the +1.

Maybe you could drop the Deceiver to add a Sentry Pylon w/ Gauss Exterminator to your list giving you 2 units that are anti-air with +1 to hit against flyers and deep strike as well?

**Klowny**

torblind wrote:
What +1 is this? Doesn't the Stalker let you reroll 1s?

Should be a nice benefit for the pylon.

Pylon has 2+ +1 against fly, should have no problem with hard to hit (still 2+)

God damn it!!! I'm still mixing up 7th and 8th rules. Was thinking it was +1 BS, not RR of 1's

I still feel it fits the list better than the Deciever, MW will shred a C'tan, but not a vehicle. If against Magnus point the stalker at Magnus, let the pylon ensure its dead. For flyer spam it helps the DDA, as it only has d3 shots. The TA has D6 so it's statistically putting more shots down range it doesn't need as much help. Additionally the stalker puts out more long range damage compared to a Deciever. It also means I don't have to leave my warriors and GA unsupported midfield if I don't want to.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Odrankt wrote:
But..... lots and lots of armies seem to be bringing flyers with hard to hit. While my Pylon is good against them, I think a stalker is still necessary.

Ive seen a lot of Imperium lists with 6-8 flyers with hard to hit.... I have a TA and DDA that would massively benefit from the +1.

Maybe you could drop the Deceiver to add a Sentry Pylon w/ Gauss Exterminator to your list giving you 2 units that are anti-air with +1 to hit against flyers and deep strike as well?

Hmm I do have a gauss sentry pylon. I'm losing the stalkers CC and movement for a better gun. Sticking it next to its big brother and DDA doubles down on the backfield gun line. I'd get a particle Beamer and gloom prism too.

Is it worth it?

**torblind**

Klowny wrote:

God damn it!!! I'm still mixing up 7th and 8th rules. Was thinking it was +1 BS, not RR of 1's

(even in 7th it didn't buff vehicles)

**Klowny**

torblind wrote:
Klowny wrote:

God damn it!!! I'm still mixing up 7th and 8th rules. Was thinking it was +1 BS, not RR of 1's

(even in 7th it didn't buff vehicles)

I know, it worked differently, I just got the two mixed up is all. I used the stalker a lot in 7th, I like the model.

Still cant decide if a gauss sentry pylon or triarch stalker is better in my list. Im also trying to find the best way to cram more scarabs in, seriously contemplating dropping 10 warriors for them. I realise they are a very good counter to razorwing flock spam... we hit/wound on 3+/3+, while they hit and wound us on 5+/5+. We have a save, they dont. Thinking 3x9 scarabs, trying to see what I can shuffle around, not much wriggle room.

If anyone is a maths wizard, any chance of doing the numbersof a gauss sentry pylon's damage vs a THGC stalker? At both flying and ground targets, assuming T7.

**torblind**

What toughness, save and wounds are they?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
For Sentry pylon, assuming +1 to hit Fly from base BS 3+:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also you can do the math if you can grok all the knobs and buttons here: http://www.dice-hammer.com

Automatically Appended Next Post:
If the flyers are -1 to hit, the Stalker starts to suffer:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
As for ground targets:

The Gauss pylon was made for this, if you can get one more:

(Assuming the flyers dont have a 2+ save)

**Klowny**

Thanks Tor! Legend

**Claas**

So am I in the minority here for loving particle shredders on my stalkers? I been running them heavy gauss and keeping them in my backfield, but I switched to playing more aggressively with them with ps.. S7 is a weird niche but the 6 shots are needed. Most my lists have heavy destroyers and a dda so I haven't missed the at of heavy gauss that much.

**Nagerash**

I've been wondering if other people appreciated the silent brother of the 3 Stalker weapons. I guess since we lack (or lacked pre FW) anti vehicle, most people didn't want to fit their stalker out with anti-infantry, which we already have.
I didn't bring that weapon this time, but I do want to try it out.

I have been a long lurker on this thread, but never really saw the need to post. I figured it was high time.

I wanted to share a fun list with you guys that I will be using against BA this saturday.
He said he was bringing a fun list as well, so I'm not expecting 3 deepstriking cc beasts, (which is why I have only 1 small unit of scarabs)

Spoiler:

Some nice Backfield dakka with some serious counter charge units and since I expect them to come towards me, I don't have to worry too much about the Praets outrunning Anrakyrs buff.
I don't have any anti horde, but since I'm face BA, I'm not expecting any horde like lists.
Thoughts?
Too cc/elite heavy?

Maybe the Deathmarks could be switched for something better, but I want to see how usefull they are, and that means bringing 10.

**Klowny**

So just went up against my comp lists hard counter (besides storm raven flyer spam), 10 HWT, 150 conscripts, DS Scion plasma spam.

Had it been a TO I would have won due to me out scoring him early, but the game took north of 4 hours (conscripts rolling 172 shots takes aaaaaaaaaaaaaaages). By bottom of 4 I only had my pylon and Toholk left. I couldn't deal with the horde quick enough, and my warriors underperformed atrociously. My scarabs however.....

It got me thinking. My list has lots of high health, high damage weapons but severely lacks in the horde killing capabilities.

20 warriors and a GA is a tough nut to crack, unless facing 150 conscripts and Autocannon HWT. The warriors and GA killed....... 11 conscripts before getting wiped from the face of the earth. They are my front line, and are painfully slow. Additionally I didn't like having Toholk that far forward in a gunline list as he is very easily killed as he has no support.

I realised the answer.

Scarab spam.

Wave after wave of scarabs. 5 of them did comparable damage in 1 round of combat than my warriors and GA did in 1 round of shooting. They're cheaper than warriors, double the speed, 3 wounds. Sure they don't have as good a save nor are they as tough, but they are really good in CC with 4a base. Against conscripts 2x squads will shred them, against razorwing spam they hit/wound on 3+ vs the razorwing's 5+. They screen my guns, can grab objectives, and get respawned by the spyders.

So new and revised comp list:

Spoiler:

I'm losing 20x warriors and a GA, but gaining 18 Scarabs. That's literally my entire deployment zone filled with scarabs. It's also now 3d3 wounds being regenerated a turn in addition to 2x scarab bases a turn being replenished into the squads so long as I position right. I could take a third squad of 6 scarabs but I need 1st turn to get my damage off.

Yes I would like more anti infantry shooting, but I think, pound for pound our swarms do better than the rest.

**mrWermut**

You are welcome to the Scarabs Fan Club.

" lacks in the horde killing capabilities. "
2*10 Tesla Immortals

**Klowny**

Yeah, I feel however, after seeing many comp lists, that big anti 'FLY' and tank guns screened by chaff is strong. I don't have the points for tesla, and I feel Scarabs are good at the whole range of screens. Razorwing, brims, conscripts, nids, all the same. They just need to hold everything up long enough for the cannons to get the job done.

11 units and a seize reroll on an alpha strike this brutal is very powerful. It counters the big lists. I feel I just need to get the balance between big guns and scarabs right.

**Odrankt**

Klowny wrote:

It got me thinking. My list has lots of high health, high damage weapons but severely lacks in the horde killing capabilities.

I realised the answer.

Scarab spam.

As far as Scarab spam goes it isn't that reliable of a way of taking out a list unless backed up by shooty units. You want your Scarabs to;

Spoiler:

I usually put my Scarabs in two different profiles. 1 is for Objective Scouring, holding up enemy units and taking out units with low wounds and models which I run as 3 units of 6-8. and 2 is for screening, body guarding low wound characters moving up the table like the C'tan, Suicidal Combat and "easy" targets for smite-spam and PL VP games which I run in 5-6 units of 3 I like having Immortals and Warriors to take out what the Scarabs Fall back from or to shoot at a unit before they try to charge.

They're cheaper than warriors

point vs point the warriors are cheaper at 12pts per model and Scarabs are 13pts per model

and get respawned by the spyders.

Remember that on a roll 1 to regenerating Scarabs your Spyder will take D3 MW. Try and use your CP on them if any show up.

So new and revised comp list:

Spoiler:

1x Pylon
1x Lord w/Scythe
1x Toholk
2x Spyders (Both in one squad) w/ FCA, twin PB
9x Scarabs
9x Scarabs
9x Scarabs
9x Scarabs
1xTA w/ Tesla
1x DDA
1x Gauss sentry pylon.

What about this for 2 extra CP?

Spoiler:

You could spawn the Sentry Pylon for Some warriors or Immortals for a good steady gun line.

pound for pound our swarms do better than the rest.

Immortals and Flayed Ones are great anti-horde as well.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Claas wrote:
So am I in the minority here for loving particle shredders on my stalkers? I been running them heavy gauss and keeping them in my backfield, but I switched to playing more aggressively with them with ps.. S7 is a weird niche but the 6 shots are needed. Most my lists have heavy destroyers and a dda so I haven't missed the at of heavy gauss that much.

If you already feel you got enough of those, I can see the Shredder being useful due to having more shots vs objective campers and whatnot.

**crunkDealer**

Flayed ones are amazing at killing conscripts, and pair really well with a deceiver redeploy, or any ctan really. (you can use a c'tan to either snipe commissars or delete 1/6 of the conscript blobs per turn)

20 flayed ones are 80 attacks at STR 4 AP 0 rerolling wounds. You can give them MWBD and buff them with reroll hits (imotekh) and +1 attack (anrakyr).

Let's say you have anrakyr and use MWBD on them, so 100 attacks hitting on 2 and wounding on 3, rerolling wounds.

83.33 hits, 74.07 wounds, 5+ save, 49.38 kills ON AVERAGE.

If they get overwatched by 100 lasgun shots, they will lose 2-3 models, so being generous to the enemy, 85 attacks, 70.83 hits, 62.96 wounds, 41.92 kills.

If you also throw in rerolling hits (imotekh) then they have 57.61 non-overwatch kills or 48.90 post-overwatch kills, but at this point you are maybe better off taking a c'tan shard and nab 8-9 kills before charging in.

So grab a deceiver redeploy, taking anrakyr and maybe a 5 man lychguard or 10 man tesla immortals and then calling in the flayed ones. Only problem is you can't MWBD something after it deep strikes (beginning of movement vs end of movement) but the Timmortals are a really good target for MWBD too.

**Klowny**

Odrankt wrote:
Klowny wrote:

It got me thinking. My list has lots of high health, high damage weapons but severely lacks in the horde killing capabilities.

I realised the answer.

Scarab spam.

As far as Scarab spam goes it isn't that reliable of a way of taking out a list unless backed up by shooty units. You want your Scarabs to;

Spoiler:

1) Have them survive as much as possible and make sure you have a good few of them for Turn 4 on wards.

2) You want them to lock your opponents most threatening unit up so that they soak up CC damage, put your units in place, fall back the Scarabs to a Spyder to regenerate a Scarab if any was lost and (if any) in some LOS blocking terrain. Then, shoot the fuq out of your opponents held up unit and do the same thing over and over.

3) if you do want them to take on units then make sure the unit has lost several wounds/models so when you attack 1st you have a better chance at leaving the Scarabs survive as the won't be attack in CC unless stated otherwise.

I usually put my Scarabs in two different profiles. 1 is for Objective Scouring, holding up enemy units and taking out units with low wounds and models which I run as 3 units of 6-8. and 2 is for screening, body guarding low wound characters moving up the table like the C'tan, Suicidal Combat and "easy" targets for smite-spam and PL VP games which I run in 5-6 units of 3 I like having Immortals and Warriors to take out what the Scarabs Fall back from or to shoot at a unit before they try to charge.

They're cheaper than warriors
point vs point the warriors are cheaper at 12pts per model and Scarabs are 13pts per model

and get respawned by the spyders.
Remember that on a roll 1 to regenerating Scarabs your Spyder will take D3 MW. Try and use your CP on them if any show up.

So new and revised comp list:

Spoiler:

1x Pylon
1x Lord w/Scythe
1x Toholk
2x Spyders (Both in one squad) w/ FCA, twin PB
9x Scarabs
9x Scarabs
9x Scarabs
9x Scarabs
1xTA w/ Tesla
1x DDA
1x Gauss sentry pylon.

What about this for 2 extra CP?

Spoiler:

+++ Klowny (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [105 PL, 1998pts] +++

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Necrons) ++

+ HQ +

Lord: Hyperphase Sword

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarabs: 8x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Scarabs: 8x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Scarabs: 8x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

+ Heavy Support +

(FW) Tesseract Ark
. Two Tesla Cannons: 2x Tesla Cannon

Doomsday Ark

++ Outrider Detachment +1CP (Necrons) ++

+ HQ +

(FW) Toholk the Blinded

Lord: Hyperphase Sword

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarabs: 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Scarabs: 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Scarabs: 3x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

+ Heavy Support +

(FW) Sentry Pylon: Teleportation Matrix
. Sentry Pylon: Gauss Exterminator

Canoptek Spyders
. Canoptek Spyder: Fabricator Claw Array
. Canoptek Spyder: Fabricator Claw Array

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Necrons) ++

+ Lord of War +

(FW) Gauss Pylon

You could spawn the Sentry Pylon for Some warriors or Immortals for a good steady gun line.

pound for pound our swarms do better than the rest.
Immortals and Flayed Ones are great anti-horde as well.

f

Its too many units, I thought of going that way, but unfortunately im trying to keep my drops down with the aim of going first to maximize alpha strike. The list is focused on the power of the pylon, and the scarabs in the 4x9 bases I have a T2 57" Area of Denial if they have deep striking threats. That way when they kill the scarabs, if they dont kill the squad i take from the front, causing them to be out of combat without having to fall back, and then regen 2 per scarab squad a turn.

I will definetly use CP to reroll spyder 1's. Good idea. I turtle the vehicles around the pylon so everything has 5++ and the arks have QS, and i regen 3d3 wounds a turn.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

crunkDealer wrote:
Flayed ones are amazing at killing conscripts, and pair really well with a deceiver redeploy, or any ctan really. (you can use a c'tan to either snipe commissars or delete 1/6 of the conscript blobs per turn)

20 flayed ones are 80 attacks at STR 4 AP 0 rerolling wounds. You can give them MWBD and buff them with reroll hits (imotekh) and +1 attack (anrakyr).

Let's say you have anrakyr and use MWBD on them, so 100 attacks hitting on 2 and wounding on 3, rerolling wounds.

83.33 hits, 74.07 wounds, 5+ save, 49.38 kills ON AVERAGE.

If they get overwatched by 100 lasgun shots, they will lose 2-3 models, so being generous to the enemy, 85 attacks, 70.83 hits, 62.96 wounds, 41.92 kills.

If you also throw in rerolling hits (imotekh) then they have 57.61 non-overwatch kills or 48.90 post-overwatch kills, but at this point you are maybe better off taking a c'tan shard and nab 8-9 kills before charging in.

So grab a deceiver redeploy, taking anrakyr and maybe a 5 man lychguard or 10 man tesla immortals and then calling in the flayed ones. Only problem is you can't MWBD something after it deep strikes (beginning of movement vs end of movement) but the Timmortals are a really good target for MWBD too.

Flayed ones are just too expensive for what they offer to justify IMO.

**Latro_**

jumping in on the thread, watched a couple of battle reports and warrior spam just looks hilarious with the reanimation rolls.

I have a bunch (like 60-80) in a box somewhere is it worth painting them for a somewhat decent force?

thinking 80, like 960pts
then 1000pts on fun stuff to deliver them like night sythes, monolths, ghost arcs and crypteks in there.

just seems a bit bonkers and a tough nut to crack, or am i missing something.