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 Klowny wrote:
Our only answer to conscripts in their current state is TB w/ scopes, and scarabs. Nothing else comes close to outputting enough damage to neuter the FRFSRF damage. Run 9 blades and scarabs, Rapid fire the blades and charge the scarabs in the same turn, expect to kill a 50 man squad in 1 turn.

Scarabs I understand, but would TBs really be the most optimal gun choice? They seem a little over costed.

Actually, what would our most optimal units be?
Scarabs
Superheavy Pylon
Doomsday Arks
?????

 Klowny wrote:

davethepak wrote:
I have found the Tesseract Ark to be quite good in a game - its lack of S9 was not as big a deal, as I also had a DDA in the game (as pointed out above, it is an addition, not a replacement for the DDA or Heavy destroyers).

Just one note; it is a bit tricky to build - I suggest building it in components, then painting it, then finally assembly.

I'm starting mine in a little bit, what's tricky about it?

It is a bit difficult to paint assembled (common with many necron vehicles).
Also, the orb assembly of the main weapon is difficult to line up all the parts (mine were warped, that did not help) so it looks good.

On tactics;
Grilyman is indeed a challenge - I have also found a big admech blob to be difficult nut to crack as well (that is a lot of firepower in a very small area). Non-girly marines (pre codex) had been no problem for me, but I have not played against them since the new codex - and wow - the new codex is amazing - some of the chapter tactics are really good - and the stratagems are pretty amazing as well.

I do hope that crons get buffs to many units once we get a codex (or sooner....) but we can't plan for that yet.

I am going to next try out a nightscythe and monolith list - to see if the monolith can distract the other player from paying too much attention to the night scythe - so it can live long enough to deliver some lychguard in some key areas.
(I know the lychguard are not amazing, but I love mine and want to get them on the table - mine are all converted old pariah models).

FYI, I usually take a DDA, stalker and TA in my games against guard, and I have never lacked long range firepower, or felt I needed more.

I also pretty regularly fight a guard player, he's not so big on spamming conscripts but the whole an army vs an army idea of wiping out immortal units is the least applicable to conscripts who are very hard to get inside range all at once compared to the more compact immortals who are regularly getting cover bonuses on top of delivering their full unit size in shots. And they cost the same amount, you can't be drowned in conscript crossfire if you're taking an equal weight of immortals. Plasma scions and earthshaker batteries are what get me, the regular infantry and 2 conscript units are still just flashlights to me at 13"+.

 Actinium wrote:
I also pretty regularly fight a guard player, he's not so big on spamming conscripts but the whole an army vs an army idea of wiping out immortal units is the least applicable to conscripts who are very hard to get inside range all at once compared to the more compact immortals who are regularly getting cover bonuses on top of delivering their full unit size in shots. And they cost the same amount, you can't be drowned in conscript crossfire if you're taking an equal weight of immortals. Plasma scions and earthshaker batteries are what get me, the regular infantry and 2 conscript units are still just flashlights to me at 13"+.

Yep conscripts out of FRFSRF aren't scary, but ever faced 2 wyverns? Or mortar HWT? All I'm saying is that 10 Immortals in cover isn't that hard to kill, guard don't actually have many good high Str multi damage weapons, but excel at dealing with hordes/infantry. For example, 20 warriors in cover buffed by a GA, lord and cryptek takes on average 1.5 turns to be deleted by my opponent. Hell I've GI 40 warriors into cover with a GA, lord and cryptek and he took 1 round of shooting to kill them all. (It did take his entire armies firepower however).

If your having problems with scions and earthshakers, Try bringing 2x 6 scarab units, you are now able to completely ignore his scions as 12 scarabs have a huge footprint..

Bring some DDA and stalkers and screen them with the scarabs. His backline is now done t2-3 and his scions are useless. Easy counter. But I haven't dealt with earthshakers yet so I cannot verify how effective it is vs them, but if the chassis is similar to the rest of the guard tanks you'll have no problem.

15 HWT and 100 conscripts on the other hand.

I think it might just be time to accept we are not an average group of players. Our numerous store wins reflect our skill with our faction and the game, but I think seeing the top level results gives us a clear picture of our faction overall. That may seem like a contradiction but it isn't.

Three main factors go into a win, luck, skill, and list. Skill is by far and away the most important of them, even given moderately unequal list, a more skilled player will generally beat a less skilled opponent. As skill levels get closer and closer, list plays a larger factor. when you are in the top few percentiles of skill list becomes the deciding factor.

That's why we can have blow out after blow out at local games, but still have a faction that is subpar. if you are a one in twenty player, your local pool of players isn't deep enough to regularly give you someone close enough in skill that list becomes the most important factor. The fact the factions are much closer in 8th ed in terms of power than they were in 7th ed also broadens the effect of skill, since a bad player can't lean on a decurion or a gladius.

I guess what I'm getting at is even though you might win in local games, maybe we should just accept that for the moment we are 8th ed equivalent of 7th ed orks and plan our competitions accordingly (eg: probably with another army).

 Grimgold wrote:
I think it might just be time to accept we are not an average group of players. Our numerous store wins reflect our skill with our faction and the game, but I think seeing the top level results gives us a clear picture of our faction overall. That may seem like a contradiction but it isn't.

Three main factors go into a win, luck, skill, and list. Skill is by far and away the most important of them, even given moderately unequal list, a more skilled player will generally beat a less skilled opponent. As skill levels get closer and closer, list plays a larger factor. when you are in the top few percentiles of skill list becomes the deciding factor.

That's why we can have blow out after blow out at local games, but still have a faction that is subpar. if you are a one in twenty player, your local pool of players isn't deep enough to regularly give you someone close enough in skill that list becomes the most important factor. The fact the factions are much closer in 8th ed in terms of power than they were in 7th ed also broadens the effect of skill, since a bad player can't lean on a decurion or a gladius.

I guess what I'm getting at is even though you might win in local games, maybe we should just accept that for the moment we are 8th ed equivalent of 7th ed orks and plan our competitions accordingly (eg: probably with another army).

Sadly, as it stands, I agree with you Grim. We just aren't good at dealing with horde armies, yes we have answers to them, but none are really effective/points efficient. However, if plasma gets adjusted, and conscripts get nerfed to the point they aren't dominating the top tables, the majority of the other top lists at BAO are actually easy to deal with. Most of the rest of the top lists are elite/vehicle spam lists, something that we EXCEL at beating. If the meta shifts to that, necrons suddenly become top teir. QS is a hard counter to these lists, we have very effective long range high damage, high str high rend weapons, and incredibly effective screens in scarabs. We have frontline 5++ TA's, midfield sentry pylons, and backfield DDA/Gauss pylons.

For <1000 points, we can have 4 pylons, and 2 drops.... all of which DS onto the board. Say another 500 in scarabs and HQ's, that leaves you with enough to run 2x DDA and a HD, or 2x TA.

No parking lot, nor Aeladri vehicle spam list will be able to stand up to that much firepower, nor will it be able to bypass enough QS/living metal to quell the onslaught.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, I'd like to build on what you are saying about list building being critical at top teir. Firstly I agree with your point, and it actually makes the future of comp 40k very interesting.

If the majority of armies are close in power overall, it means GW can dictate/change the meta, enabling much more variety in the top tables, and chances for every army to have their time in the sun. This is a good thing for the game.

Look at Riot and League of Legends as an example. That meta shifts multiple times per year, and the champions that are strong change all the time. On the surface it is a simple game that should have a straightfoward ending, but by adjusting certain champs/concepts, the meta changes so that every few months the games are completely different at the top level.

If this can be replicated in 40k, which it looks like it is moving towards, it will make the game so much better.

Look at what has already happened this year, initially it was stormravens dominating the top tables, now its conscript spam.

Two different meta's in one year, and 8th hasnt even been out for 6 months.

Compare this to 7th. I came in near the end of 7th, after necrons had their time in the sun as the cheese. The only meta I saw was 'can you beat eldar'. Not fun at all.

I know skoffs has threatened to hang people by their toes if they try to turn this into a wish thread, so I'll make a seperate thread about what I think is wrong with Necrons and maybe some additional fixes. If nothing else it will be cathartic, and maybe someone at GW browses this forum. Suffice it to say I think we are weak because of design flaws, stuff like gutting gauss, messing with our teleports, and underwhelming buffs. They could decrease points across the board and that would help, but unless we deal with the design flaws and perverse incentives we will never be functional in this edition.

 Grimgold wrote:
I know skoffs has threatened to hang people by their toes if they try to turn this into a wish thread, so I'll make a seperate thread about what I think is wrong with Necrons and maybe some additional fixes. If nothing else it will be cathartic, and maybe someone at GW browses this forum. Suffice it to say I think we are weak because of design flaws, stuff like gutting gauss, messing with our teleports, and underwhelming buffs. They could decrease points across the board and that would help, but unless we deal with the design flaws and perverse incentives we will never be functional in this edition.

That sounds good.
I'm sure everyone would like to weigh in on the topic.
(Just might be best to stick it in 40k general discussion, not tactics, so it doesn't throw off new players, eg. "Wtf! I read in that thread that the Monolith was awesome now that it could pull in units from anywhere​on the board, but I can't find that part in the index!")

Revised my comp list, still have much time so the constant mullings make me continuously change it. Ill put the list and what ive changed in the spoiler, would appreciate criticisms etc. But outside the spoiler for people who dont care about the list.


What is the best loadout for TB when on a budget. Im having trouble finding a balance. I want to max out a squad of 8 with scopes and vanes, but then I'm not sure if its worth it over another model with less toys. If its less toys, should a balance of vanes, scopes and looms be appropriate, if so should some get both vanes and looms, or just looms. Im mainly bringing them for their anti infantry capabilities, so the IC I feel will be more valuable than some having a 5++.

Its also way less book-keeping, as I dont have to worry about which ones are which, rolling different for the ones without scopes if/when its applicable etc etc.

Halp me frands!!

I'm having second thoughts on whether Crypteks are worth it. I think I'm very much coming over to the 'just take more warriors' camp.

The thing that's really putting me off is that - unlike Overlords, D. Lords and CCBs - they're abysmal in combat.

The special character Crypteks might be an exception (since they actually bring some melee/ranged ability), but I don't think I'll use a regular Cryptek again

 vipoid wrote:
I'm having second thoughts on whether Crypteks are worth it. I think I'm very much coming over to the 'just take more warriors' camp.

It is ovious that a profit that cryptek brings to you is depends on an enemie's firepower. The more they ma kill, the more imput a cryptic will give. +1 to protocols means that youll place online half of your silver puppets, that is twice effective that the regular protocol roll. So, speaking of 7 additional warriors instead of a cryptek, they will cover only first 21 wounds you warriors will recieve. After that number (22nd wound and so forth) a regular 5+ protocol much worse than a crypec's boost.

And on the other hand, You need only 14 incoming wounds to before 103 pts of cryptek pays off. So ask yourself, what kind of scenario is more common? When you have only 21 wounds to your warriors per game, or the other one?

And I'm not even speaking about 5+ inv. bubble here..

 skoffs wrote:

 Klowny wrote:
Our only answer to conscripts in their current state is TB w/ scopes, and scarabs. Nothing else comes close to outputting enough damage to neuter the FRFSRF damage. Run 9 blades and scarabs, Rapid fire the blades and charge the scarabs in the same turn, expect to kill a 50 man squad in 1 turn.

Scarabs I understand, but would TBs really be the most optimal gun choice? They seem a little over costed.

Actually, what would our most optimal units be?
Scarabs
Superheavy Pylon
Doomsday Arks
?????

They are expensive, but if you haven't ran them yet skoffs, do yourself a favour. They seriously pull their weight, theyve been star units for me in multiple battles.

Basically, their speed, extra rend on the gauss, and ignores cover ensure that whatever you wound, dies (im talking about conscripts/hordes). They have the speed to position well, RF, charge, then let the scarabs that were right behind them charge in and do the CC work. Yes I know its expensive, but if you have multiple scarab swarms enroaching multiple blobs, you can just hammer at the conscripts very well.

I mean you could GI 40 warriors, but again, the extra rend value makes a huge difference. Heck, even 20 warriors and a deciever is around the same price as 9 TB, and id take the TB any day.

Revised my comp list, still have much time so the constant mullings make me continuously change it. Ill put the list and what ive changed in the spoiler, would appreciate criticisms etc.

Do you not feel that both Destroyers and H.Destroyer are over priced for the damage they do and the shots they can fire?

Normal Ds can only shoot twice per model while Heavy Ds shot 1.Normal Ds are only Strength 5 meaning your only good against infantry units and light tanks/vehicles. Heavy D is S9 and can pretty much hit everything on 3s or 2s but because it is only 1 shoot I dont feel like it is worth the investment.

They are re-rolling 1s to hit which is nice, get RP (although,every time I field Destroyers they are always killed T1 so I never get to RP them which makes the points I put into them feel wasted), have 3 wounds per model, can move 10 inches and fire at full BS is quite good. But, it's their pt cost and lack of either Strong Shots (Destroyers) or lack of shots in general (H.Destroyers) that make me never want to field them. after all the games I had with them being Destroyed T1 and not even doing 1 bit of damage to anything my opponent fields really aches my heart especially since they cost so much to field.

Now, that could be because I am not that good at 40k and don't always position my models well but after 10 games of 8th and all I see is 5 models that cost 327pt always getting Destroyed it makes my faith almost non-existent. It is also harder to get 5 Ds into cover due to there model size and unit size.

If I was you Klowny I would;

 Odrankt wrote:

Revised my comp list, still have much time so the constant mullings make me continuously change it. Ill put the list and what ive changed in the spoiler, would appreciate criticisms etc.

Do you not feel that both Destroyers and H.Destroyer are over priced for the damage they do and the shots they can fire?

Normal Ds can only shoot twice per model while Heavy Ds shot 1.Normal Ds are only Strength 5 meaning your only good against infantry units and light tanks/vehicles. Heavy D is S9 and can pretty much hit everything on 3s or 2s but because it is only 1 shoot I dont feel like it is worth the investment.

They are re-rolling 1s to hit which is nice, get RP (although,every time I field Destroyers they are always killed T1 so I never get to RP them which makes the points I put into them feel wasted), have 3 wounds per model, can move 10 inches and fire at full BS is quite good. But, it's their pt cost and lack of either Strong Shots (Destroyers) or lack of shots in general (H.Destroyers) that make me never want to field them. after all the games I had with them being Destroyed T1 and not even doing 1 bit of damage to anything my opponent fields really aches my heart especially since they cost so much to field.

Now, that could be because I am not that good at 40k and don't always position my models well but after 10 games of 8th and all I see is 5 models that cost 327pt always getting Destroyed it makes my faith almost non-existent. It is also harder to get 5 Ds into cover due to there model size and unit size.

If I was you Klowny I would;

Spoiler:

Drop all the Destroyers to get 327pts And put those points in another TB, another scarab and the TA.

I know you got rid of the TA to get more Destroyers and TBs but it can shoot just as good if not better then the Destroyers as the Singularity Chambers second gun profile is the same Strength as Gauss Cannon but with a D 3 wounds not D D3 wounds and it can also shoot 2 Gauss/Tesla Cannons for more dakka.

Sypder can help it get back wounds if needed and it literally has 3 different jobs that it can all do flawlessly.

The only thing you will miss is the Heavy Ds S 9 Weapon but at only 1 shoot per model I do not think it gives it enough reason to stick around. And, the TA strongest gun profile is Heavy D6 S 8 so even tho it's "worse" you do get more dice to roll and potentially more damage could be done.

If you do not want a TA then Id say keep the list as it is as there is not much you can do unless you drop a model to gain a model.

But to get the TA back I need to add in a spearhead detachment, and a lord, taking up points for nothing, as the lord is only for countercharge defence, practically wasting points for most of the game. I figured by dropping the TA, and Lord, and adding in the destroyers, I now have good anti T5, 2+ sv units like terminators. While also still getting another good shot from the H.D, and adding in more anti infantry. A TA, can hurt more models sure, with both its main gun and the tesla.

I dunno, I'm kinda swamped with university starting again, and havent even started building my TA. If i get it done in time I might reconsider making it but I'm not rushing it.

But to get the TA back I need to add in a spearhead detachment, and a lord, taking up points for nothing, as the lord is only for countercharge defence, practically wasting points for most of the game. I figured by dropping the TA, and Lord, and adding in the destroyers, I now have good anti T5, 2+ sv units like terminators. While also still getting another good shot from the H.D, and adding in more anti infantry. A TA, can hurt more models sure, with both its main gun and the tesla.

I dunno, I'm kinda swamped with university starting again, and havent even started building my TA. If i get it done in time I might reconsider making it but I'm not rushing it.

Okay they are very good points. if you are unable to change the list up then keep it as it. It is probably better if you get a few games in using this list and if it doesn't preform like you intented then I would start changing things. I still don't think Destroyers are worth it but for the sake of the list I guess it's better then changing everything up. I just feel like they will be lack-luster in a list like this. If I find a way to list what I said with the rest of your list I'll let you know.

In regards to uni you could proxy a TA against people that don't mind proxies till you have the time to get the TA done? I imagine your study is more important then Warhammer atm

 Odrankt wrote:

But to get the TA back I need to add in a spearhead detachment, and a lord, taking up points for nothing, as the lord is only for countercharge defence, practically wasting points for most of the game. I figured by dropping the TA, and Lord, and adding in the destroyers, I now have good anti T5, 2+ sv units like terminators. While also still getting another good shot from the H.D, and adding in more anti infantry. A TA, can hurt more models sure, with both its main gun and the tesla.

I dunno, I'm kinda swamped with university starting again, and havent even started building my TA. If i get it done in time I might reconsider making it but I'm not rushing it.

Okay they are very good points. if you are unable to change the list up then keep it as it. It is probably better if you get a few games in using this list and if it doesn't preform like you intented then I would start changing things. I still don't think Destroyers are worth it but for the sake of the list I guess it's better then changing everything up. I just feel like they will be lack-luster in a list like this. If I find a way to list what I said with the rest of your list I'll let you know.

In regards to uni you could proxy a TA against people that don't mind proxies till you have the time to get the TA done? I imagine your study is more important then Warhammer atm

Thanks mate, yea I feel the Destroyers are good for the more elite infantry, while I have the TB and scarabs for the hordes.

Initially I didnt like destroyers, I too found them too expensive for what they offered. Once I got a few games in however, they really do pull their weight.

I guess that either you take 6 destoers including heavy one or you have zero of them.

They are as hard to wipe out as expencive.

So, I put 2 lists that you could use Klowny. They both use Lord's as tax but you will get an extra CP which could be used on the Sypder regenerating Scarabs or whatever.

List 1;
This list is basically what you said earlier, took the Destroyers out and put in a Spearhead Detach, Lord w/Hyperphase Sword, TA, Sypder with GP to deny 1 pysk power and everything else should be the same.

List 2

For this one I took out Toholk and put in 2 Lord's w/ swords and brought in another Sypder with GP. I know your gonna lose the D3 living Metal plus D3 from the FBC on the Gauss Pylon but with 2 Sypder it will give the Pylon 1 living Metal and D3 wounds back via FBC and you have another Sypder that can FBC the TA or DAD and give you back another Scarab instead of 1. You will also have to chances to deny pysk powers.

Not like the list you made and maybe not as "powerful" or "useful" but it is a way to swap the 4 Destroyers and Heavy for an extra CP, Sypder and choice of HQ.

Again, use your list as you indented but the only I gave you are just other options that might be more useful.

Initially I didnt like destroyers, I too found them too expensive for what they offered. Once I got a few games in however, they really do pull their weight.

well, I wished my Destroyers preformed like yours did

 Odrankt wrote:
So, I put 2 lists that you could use Klowny. They both use Lord's as tax but you will get an extra CP which could be used on the Sypder regenerating Scarabs or whatever.

List 1;

Spoiler:

Klowny (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [97 PL, 2000pts]
Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Necrons)
Lord of War
(FW) Gauss Pylon
Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Necrons)
HQ

Lord
Hyperphase Sword

Heavy Support

(FW) Tesseract Ark
Two Tesla Cannons
2x Tesla Cannon

Canoptek Spyders

Canoptek Spyder
Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism

Doomsday Ark

Outrider Detachment +1CP (Necrons)

HQ
(FW) Toholk the Blinded

Fast Attack

Canoptek Scarabs
9x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Scarabs
9x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Scarabs
8x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Tomb Blades

Tomb Blade
Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
Two Gauss Blasters
2x Gauss Blaster

Tomb Blade
Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
Two Gauss Blasters
2x Gauss Blaster

Tomb Blade
Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
Two Gauss Blasters
2x Gauss Blaster

Tomb Blade
Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
Two Gauss Blasters
2x Gauss Blaster

Tomb Blade
Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
Two Gauss Blasters
2x Gauss Blaster

Tomb Blade
Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
Two Gauss Blasters
2x Gauss Blaster

Tomb Blade
Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
Two Gauss Blasters
2x Gauss Blaster

Tomb Blade
Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
Two Gauss Blasters
2x Gauss Blaster

This list is basically what you said earlier, took the Destroyers out and put in a Spearhead Detach, Lord w/Hyperphase Sword, TA, Sypder with GP to deny 1 pysk power and everything else should be the same.

List 2

Spoiler:

Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment (Necrons)

Lord of War

(FW) Gauss Pylon
Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Necrons)

HQ

Lord
Hyperphase Sword

Heavy Support

(FW) Tesseract Ark
Two Tesla Cannons
2x Tesla Cannon

Canoptek Spyders
Canoptek Spyder
Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism

Canoptek Spyders
Canoptek Spyder
Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism

Doomsday Ark

Outrider Detachment +1CP (Necrons)

HQ

Lord
Hyperphase Sword

Fast Attack

Canoptek Scarabs
9x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Scarabs
9x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Canoptek Scarabs
8x Canoptek Scarab Swarm

Tomb Blades

Tomb Blade
Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
Two Gauss Blasters
2x Gauss Blaster

Tomb Blade
Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
Two Gauss Blasters
2x Gauss Blaster

Tomb Blade
Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
Two Gauss Blasters
2x Gauss Blaster

Tomb Blade
Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
Two Gauss Blasters
2x Gauss Blaster

Tomb Blade
Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
Two Gauss Blasters
2x Gauss Blaster

Tomb Blade
Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
Two Gauss Blasters
2x Gauss Blaster

Tomb Blade
Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
Two Gauss Blasters
2x Gauss Blaster

Tomb Blade
Nebuloscope, Shieldvanes
Two Gauss Blasters
2x Gauss Blaster

For this one I took out Toholk and put in 2 Lord's w/ swords and brought in another Sypder with GP. I know your gonna lose the D3 living Metal plus D3 from the FBC on the Gauss Pylon but with 2 Sypder it will give the Pylon 1 living Metal and D3 wounds back via FBC and you have another Sypder that can FBC the TA or DAD and give you back another Scarab instead of 1. You will also have to chances to deny pysk powers.

Not like the list you made and maybe not as "powerful" or "useful" but it is a way to swap the 4 Destroyers and Heavy for an extra CP, Sypder and choice of HQ.

Again, use your list as you indented but the only I gave you are just other options that might be more useful.

Initially I didnt like destroyers, I too found them too expensive for what they offered. Once I got a few games in however, they really do pull their weight.

well, I wished my Destroyers preformed like yours did

Yea list 1 was how i had it before.

Couple of things. Scarabs can only get 1 base back per turn, its worded that way. No matter how many spyders on the board, only 1 back to the unit a turn. It gives redundancy having 2 and more wound regen, but it draws from the offensive power. I want Toholk over lords, as he gives the second regen to vehicles, but also gives me a reroll of failed seizes. Additionally, having it the way I do now also takes my drops down by 1, also giving me more of a chance to go first, as the way the tourney is atm its whoever finishes deploying first goes first.

Its also more wounds on the board, and will draw fire. I'm worried if I saturate the board in vehicles, and the meta is vehicle heavy, there will be lots of lascannon equiv floating about, and another vehicle isnt good for that, whereas if they are shooting those same weapons at destroyers, theyre reducing their output. Destroyers stay at full efficiency until their dead, whereas my unsupported TA thats driving about the midfield wont be regenerating many wounds a turn, staying in its lower teirs for longer.

You shouldn't worry too much about lascannons. Everyone hates QS, because they can't just bring lascannons and deal with any vehicle. If you're facing a lot of Las save a few Cp to deal with any 6s you roll for QS.

I actually like the destroyers quite a bit. Just don't put them in the open when deploying since if you go second, anything with long range (or stormravens) will focus them down. You can hide them behind a wall and move them where needed in your turn. The list looks good. The only thing I worry about is which missions you'll be playing. For Some of them you need infantry (the relic for example) and you only have HQs for that atm.
TB are Def worth the points, and there are quite a few multiwound models around that the destroyers will adore to shoot at, I just don't know how many are used in the meta atm. So it's up to what you like best and what your playstyle is.

 Nagerash wrote:
You shouldn't worry too much about lascannons. Everyone hates QS, because they can't just bring lascannons and deal with any vehicle. If you're facing a lot of Las save a few Cp to deal with any 6s you roll for QS.

I actually like the destroyers quite a bit. Just don't put them in the open when deploying since if you go second, anything with long range (or stormravens) will focus them down. You can hide them behind a wall and move them where needed in your turn. The list looks good. The only thing I worry about is which missions you'll be playing. For Some of them you need infantry (the relic for example) and you only have HQs for that atm.
TB are Def worth the points, and there are quite a few multiwound models around that the destroyers will adore to shoot at, I just don't know how many are used in the meta atm. So it's up to what you like best and what your playstyle is.

Thanks dude I like this list too. I feel the meta might swing to vehicle spam if conscripts get toned down. The comp im going to is straight book missions, and I'm not sure if the relic is one. Worst case I can just DS the pylon foward of it, and envelop/swarm it with scarabs and my fast stuff.

Got a sisters player who is planning on running scion plasma spam and Celestine + Retibutors in the transport with firing ports. Any suggestions to deal with the alpha strike cheese since its darn near impossible to get away from Celestine?

How has everyone been handling the required 2 HQ's for a Batallion. I feel one overlord is a must paired with MWBD with a tesla immortal squad.

For the second, I'm torn. I'm not completely sold on a cryptek. Are you going with a destroyer lord with some synergy with destroyers or going with a second overlord with more MWBD goodness?

Here's the 2k list I've been toying with for an upcoming tournament this weekend.

 Cptn_Snuggles wrote:
How has everyone been handling the required 2 HQ's for a Batallion. I feel one overlord is a must paired with MWBD with a tesla immortal squad.

For the second, I'm torn. I'm not completely sold on a cryptek. Are you going with a destroyer lord with some synergy with destroyers or going with a second overlord with more MWBD goodness?

With my (admittedly limited) experience so far, I can safely say that I'm really not fond of regular crypteks.

I think I'll be favouring 1 Overlord and 1 D. Lord. However, part of the reason why I'm taking the D. Lord is because I want to use my conversion whenever possible. If I wasn't taking him I could definitely see myself including a second Overlord instead.

About the Tomb Blades. I'm not really seeing any place for them in my army.

With gauss they need to be in rapid fire range to be optimal and that takes them out of their comfort zone.

With tesla three TB's costs more than one A Barge with tesla cannon. The AB has more wounds, QS and higher strength weapons.

BTW, have you guys watched Super Wargamers latest battle report on youtube where he uses Kutlakh with 3 max sized units of Lychguard (2 board and shield, 1WS) and 1 unit of 9 Tomb Blades with gauss. He seems to be a very good Necron player compared to most other battle report Necron players.

Have not seen that, seems interesting though. Will check it out.

Have many people faced tau commander spam this edition? Have a friend running three with missile pods and the -1 ap modifier. It's something like 8 shots per commander, 2+ to hit, s7, -2 ap and d3 damage. With markerlights first they are rerolling ones and often ignoring cover saves. 24 of these shots per turn is just hammering my army, nothing stands up to them. Opponent is smart with blocking deep strike slots around them, and is screening with a ghost keel (-2 to shoot it from outside 12") so you can't target the commanders.

Looking through the army options, I don't see much that can counter them. Last game they killed 5 destroyers in cover, triarch stalker, monolith (in one turn with some help) and about 10 scarab bases. Super strong firebase.

iGuy91 wrote:Got a sisters player who is planning on running scion plasma spam and Celestine + Retibutors in the transport with firing ports. Any suggestions to deal with the alpha strike cheese since its darn near impossible to get away from Celestine?

This ones fairly easy, you need scarabs, and lots of them. I fielded 13 of them last time, it almost took up my entire deployment zone, meaning his scions had to ds WELL away from the stuff they wanted to get to, effectively neutering them for the entire game. I would bring 2x9 squads though, I felt I wanted more that game.

vipoid wrote:

 Cptn_Snuggles wrote:
How has everyone been handling the required 2 HQ's for a Batallion. I feel one overlord is a must paired with MWBD with a tesla immortal squad.

For the second, I'm torn. I'm not completely sold on a cryptek. Are you going with a destroyer lord with some synergy with destroyers or going with a second overlord with more MWBD goodness?

With my (admittedly limited) experience so far, I can safely say that I'm really not fond of regular crypteks.

I think I'll be favouring 1 Overlord and 1 D. Lord. However, part of the reason why I'm taking the D. Lord is because I want to use my conversion whenever possible. If I wasn't taking him I could definitely see myself including a second Overlord instead.

Yeah, I'm not sold at all on warriors, their damage output is pretty atrocious IMO, nothing like it was in 7th, and 20 of them isn't that hard to blast through, meaning you aren't getting RP at all most of the time, and the 5++ almost never comes into play, making the cryptek almost useless. A second O/Lord is good if you want to double down on immortals, or a D/Lord with Res orb is a good buff for your destroyers. The named crypteks are better if you want to stick with the warriors however, szerath is good for multiple infantry squads.

Cmdr_Sune wrote:About the Tomb Blades. I'm not really seeing any place for them in my army.

With gauss they need to be in rapid fire range to be optimal and that takes them out of their comfort zone.

With tesla three TB's costs more than one A Barge with tesla cannon. The AB has more wounds, QS and higher strength weapons.

BTW, have you guys watched Super Wargamers latest battle report on youtube where he uses Kutlakh with 3 max sized units of Lychguard (2 board and shield, 1WS) and 1 unit of 9 Tomb Blades with gauss. He seems to be a very good Necron player compared to most other battle report Necron players.

Have you tried out the TB's? I was also taken back at their points cost initially, but after running them a few times, they are worth it. They are our primary anti horde infantry killers this edition, same as flayed ones but much, much more versatile/fast/durable. Run them with scarabs for a nasty 1-2 combo. We play with a lot of terrain normally, so the nebuloscopes are phenomenal. Ive wiped a 30 man strong boyz squad in one volley of gauss, them and a scarab squad will wipe a 50 man conscript blob in 1 round. I haven't run the tesla yet, math says they get a ridiculous amount of shots, I prefer the good rend, coupled with the ignores cover. Theyre fast, fairly durable (I've had 2x6 man squads survive a whole round of focused shooting from an entire AdMech army). They are just, very expensive. I feel they are more appropriately cosed vs 7th (criminally undercosted then) but I feel theyve gone too far the other way now, a kitted out squad shouldnt cost 1/4 of a 2k army. Maybe if you could take them in squads of 12 I'd be happy to pay 500 points, but currently you have to be very smart with how you play them as its a large points investment.

 buddha wrote:
Necrons are amazing and my phalanx regularly wins against tournament level lists and opponents (anecdotal evidence of course). But they are a mid table army at best. You can be a terror at your local club but until we get a dex we will be stuck there for the truly competitive.

They simply aren't top table material though because in a tournament you will simply have too many bad matchups which happen to be the current meta.

IG conscript spam like the top 2 lists we have no real counter for. We can only delay or get lucky against Bobby G in any list. Parking lot SM have enough firepower that necron bricks, and thus RP mean nothing. And we suck at dealing with flyers. Look at the top lists and you'll see that is the exact winning meta.

We are actually decent against yannari at least even if it's a small consolation.

Tesla immortals are an easy answer to conscript hordes. Unfortunately, they lack against alot of other things not having AP.

cheesedupree wrote:
Have not seen that, seems interesting though. Will check it out.

Have many people faced tau commander spam this edition? Have a friend running three with missile pods and the -1 ap modifier. It's something like 8 shots per commander, 2+ to hit, s7, -2 ap and d3 damage. With markerlights first they are rerolling ones and often ignoring cover saves. 24 of these shots per turn is just hammering my army, nothing stands up to them. Opponent is smart with blocking deep strike slots around them, and is screening with a ghost keel (-2 to shoot it from outside 12") so you can't target the commanders.

Looking through the army options, I don't see much that can counter them. Last game they killed 5 destroyers in cover, triarch stalker, monolith (in one turn with some help) and about 10 scarab bases. Super strong firebase.

My advice would be, just wait till he gets bored of Tau and moves onto something else.