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2017/11/13 13:45:49
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Imo I would like it if Gauss Weapons were able to ignore invul saves or if they were able to make iInvul save worse e.g. warriors Gauss Flayer would makes Magnus invul go to a 4+ or totally ignored it. Triarch Stalkers w/ THGC would wreck Maggy by forcing him to take 5+-6+ saves.
It's probably a bit broken but when your going up against Eldar with -2 to hit or Horrors getting buffed by a Changling it's hard to put a dent into those armies. Gauss needs to be special again. Standard -1 is nice but useless agaisnt armies we can't hit agaisnt and armies with army-wide invuls.
Allso, the Warscythe needs to be fixed. Im all good with its stats but -4ap isn't nothing against 3+ invuls or any invul at all. Needs to ignore invul as well. Realistically no Necron HQ would go into CC if they knew the odds were agaisnt them. So why give us -4 AP when most Armies have ways to get around that and make us wield a S7 D2 Weapon when we can't take advantage of the AP.
Odrankt wrote: Allso, the Warscythe needs to be fixed. Im all good with its stats but -4ap isn't nothing against 3+ invuls or any invul at all. Needs to ignore invul as well. Realistically no Necron HQ would go into CC if they knew the odds were agaisnt them. So why give us -4 AP when most Armies have ways to get around that and make us wield a S7 D2 Weapon when we can't take advantage of the AP.
It's for going up against light vehicles/transports in the game. You wound on 4's or 3's, most vehicles don't have an invul in CC so no save. Just right now the meta isn't spamming light vehicles except for razorbacks and maybe Harlequins or Dark Eldar transports.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/13 14:56:52
I play:
40K: Daemons, Tau
AoS: Blades of Khorne, Disciples of Tzeentch
Warmachine: Convergence of Cyriss
Infinity: Haqqislam, Tohaa
Malifaux: Bayou
Star Wars Legion: Republic & Separatists
MESBG: Far Harad, Misty Mountains
2017/11/13 15:26:39
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Let's not start on the wishlisting, shall we?
Speculating about what we might be able to do come the Chapter Approved changes is one thing, but
it's probably going to be a long time until we get a codex.
2017/11/13 16:44:35
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Automatically Appended Next Post: Could you have deployed differently? Or done anything?
Aye. I used the scarabs to backfield block deep strikes / infiltrates when I could have used a Gauss immortal squad for that purpose. That would have saved the Tesla Immortals from being first turn wiped, I expect.
The obliterators arrived via deep strike at 9 inches, as did the terminators and terminator lord. Their damage done was due to Shooting, not charging, and due to Vanguard deployment along with the specifics of the LoS in play here, there was no way to safeguard the vehicles from this move.
I’m not complaining, though! It was a good learning experience.
2017/11/13 16:45:59
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
skoffs wrote: Let's not start on the wishlisting, shall we?
Speculating about what we might be able to do come the Chapter Approved changes is one thing, but
it's probably going to be a long time until we get a codex.
Not trying to start a wish list Skoffs. Just saying that from playing in a lot of Tournaments lately and going up against Codex armies we just feel stumped at the moment. Nearly everything has a way to make them more survivable. We don't damage our enemies like we should do.I think chapter approved should give us a Statagem to let us RP a unit that was wiped out (in the previous turn) for 2-3CP. Our RP is probably at a weakness at the moment so we need something to make our special rule actually reliable.
Klowny wrote: Alpha strikes are real, but im kinda confused how he got so close with his termies and got into CC with your immortals T1? You have 7 scarabs, vehicles and deathmarks as screens. Not having a go, just when you see alpha legion zerkers you immediately turtle on deployment as a shooting army.
Aye, the scarabs could have been used to screen the Tesla Immortals.
The Deathmarks pseudo screened by HfH-blocking his initial infiltration plan. This worked well and forced him to deploy farther than he had planned from the DDAs. However, it was not possible to keep them out of 12 on his turn.
2017/11/13 16:52:04
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I know I'm begging for Ghost Arks to be open topped again and that Night Scythes get much cheaper so we got a reason to use Gauss Immortals more.
Ghost Arks, yes, but even if Night Scythes got cheaper, how would they be of much use to Immortals? (you use the "disembark" portal before moving the flyer, so they'd probably be blown out of the sky before they get anywhere near what the Immortals were hoping to shoot).
Plus, seeing as how Necrons have the extra added penalty to Monolith and Night Scythe "disembarking" where the HQ aren't allowed to use the same portal as the infantry in the same turn, your Tesla Immortals won't have their Overlord nearby to give them MWBD unless you get him his own Night Scythe to get out of that turn (AND hope it wasn't shot down the turn before, too).
No, unless Chapter Approved features a massive overhaul of how our transports work, a price change isn't going to do a hell of a lot.
I didn't even know that penalty existed. Blech...
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2017/11/16 06:13:50
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I know I'm begging for Ghost Arks to be open topped again and that Night Scythes get much cheaper so we got a reason to use Gauss Immortals more.
Ghost Arks, yes, but even if Night Scythes got cheaper, how would they be of much use to Immortals? (you use the "disembark" portal before moving the flyer, so they'd probably be blown out of the sky before they get anywhere near what the Immortals were hoping to shoot).
Plus, seeing as how Necrons have the extra added penalty to Monolith and Night Scythe "disembarking" where the HQ aren't allowed to use the same portal as the infantry in the same turn, your Tesla Immortals won't have their Overlord nearby to give them MWBD unless you get him his own Night Scythe to get out of that turn (AND hope it wasn't shot down the turn before, too).
No, unless Chapter Approved features a massive overhaul of how our transports work, a price change isn't going to do a hell of a lot.
I didn't even know that penalty existed. Blech...
Yup we have the worst of both worlds for our scythes and Monoliths. No trasport Keyword means our units can't move after coming on the board and don't forget the lossing ALL your units if the blow it up which is really easy since they don't have QS....
2017/11/16 17:21:03
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I know I'm begging for Ghost Arks to be open topped again and that Night Scythes get much cheaper so we got a reason to use Gauss Immortals more.
Ghost Arks, yes, but even if Night Scythes got cheaper, how would they be of much use to Immortals? (you use the "disembark" portal before moving the flyer, so they'd probably be blown out of the sky before they get anywhere near what the Immortals were hoping to shoot).
Plus, seeing as how Necrons have the extra added penalty to Monolith and Night Scythe "disembarking" where the HQ aren't allowed to use the same portal as the infantry in the same turn, your Tesla Immortals won't have their Overlord nearby to give them MWBD unless you get him his own Night Scythe to get out of that turn (AND hope it wasn't shot down the turn before, too).
No, unless Chapter Approved features a massive overhaul of how our transports work, a price change isn't going to do a hell of a lot.
I didn't even know that penalty existed. Blech...
Yup we have the worst of both worlds for our scythes and Monoliths. No trasport Keyword means our units can't move after coming on the board and don't forget the lossing ALL your units if the blow it up which is really easy since they don't have QS....
You don’t lose all of your units as long as any other portal units are around.
2017/11/16 17:46:43
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I know I'm begging for Ghost Arks to be open topped again and that Night Scythes get much cheaper so we got a reason to use Gauss Immortals more.
Ghost Arks, yes, but even if Night Scythes got cheaper, how would they be of much use to Immortals? (you use the "disembark" portal before moving the flyer, so they'd probably be blown out of the sky before they get anywhere near what the Immortals were hoping to shoot).
Plus, seeing as how Necrons have the extra added penalty to Monolith and Night Scythe "disembarking" where the HQ aren't allowed to use the same portal as the infantry in the same turn, your Tesla Immortals won't have their Overlord nearby to give them MWBD unless you get him his own Night Scythe to get out of that turn (AND hope it wasn't shot down the turn before, too).
No, unless Chapter Approved features a massive overhaul of how our transports work, a price change isn't going to do a hell of a lot.
I didn't even know that penalty existed. Blech...
Yup we have the worst of both worlds for our scythes and Monoliths. No trasport Keyword means our units can't move after coming on the board and don't forget the lossing ALL your units if the blow it up which is really easy since they don't have QS....
You don’t lose all of your units as long as any other portal units are around.
This is true but that's a ridiculous insurance premium
2017/11/16 18:12:57
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I know I'm begging for Ghost Arks to be open topped again and that Night Scythes get much cheaper so we got a reason to use Gauss Immortals more.
Ghost Arks, yes, but even if Night Scythes got cheaper, how would they be of much use to Immortals? (you use the "disembark" portal before moving the flyer, so they'd probably be blown out of the sky before they get anywhere near what the Immortals were hoping to shoot).
Plus, seeing as how Necrons have the extra added penalty to Monolith and Night Scythe "disembarking" where the HQ aren't allowed to use the same portal as the infantry in the same turn, your Tesla Immortals won't have their Overlord nearby to give them MWBD unless you get him his own Night Scythe to get out of that turn (AND hope it wasn't shot down the turn before, too).
No, unless Chapter Approved features a massive overhaul of how our transports work, a price change isn't going to do a hell of a lot.
I didn't even know that penalty existed. Blech...
Yup we have the worst of both worlds for our scythes and Monoliths. No trasport Keyword means our units can't move after coming on the board and don't forget the lossing ALL your units if the blow it up which is really easy since they don't have QS....
You don’t lose all of your units as long as any other portal units are around.
This is true but that's a ridiculous insurance premium
It doesn’t have to be structured that way. 2 transports, 2 sets of troops: 1 dies, the second teleports in the two sets of troops over 2 turns.
Oddly, the more transports you run, the more reliable this becomes.
2017/11/16 18:32:16
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Yeah, you can take 3 Night Scythes with the assumption that they can't all get killed in a single turn (which isn't even true anymore).
What do Night Scythes do after they drop off units, though? It's comparable to an Anni Barge (no QS, but -1 to hit, hard to charge, better save, more wounds), but no one really takes Anni Barges because the gun is awkward.
It's like - not enough shots for true horde clearing, designed with high strength but no AP, it seems to be a gun designed to take out semi-elite, high toughness units with low saves? 8 shots isn't a lot for what you're paying (especially with things like Leman Russ Punishers pumping out 40 shots + sponsons), so... it's just a strange gun, and one that doesn't fit the meta.
To be a "good weapon" in the meta, you have to fit one of these criteria:
1) Very good AP/Strength with multi-damage to drop Termies, Vehicles, Primarchs, etc
2) Insane number of shots to clear Conscripts, Gaunts, Brims, etc.
3) High range and line of sight ignoring to camp backfield where you can't be shot
or
4) Autohitting Flamer types with above-average profiles
2017/11/16 19:39:59
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I know I'm begging for Ghost Arks to be open topped again and that Night Scythes get much cheaper so we got a reason to use Gauss Immortals more.
Ghost Arks, yes, but even if Night Scythes got cheaper, how would they be of much use to Immortals? (you use the "disembark" portal before moving the flyer, so they'd probably be blown out of the sky before they get anywhere near what the Immortals were hoping to shoot).
Plus, seeing as how Necrons have the extra added penalty to Monolith and Night Scythe "disembarking" where the HQ aren't allowed to use the same portal as the infantry in the same turn, your Tesla Immortals won't have their Overlord nearby to give them MWBD unless you get him his own Night Scythe to get out of that turn (AND hope it wasn't shot down the turn before, too).
No, unless Chapter Approved features a massive overhaul of how our transports work, a price change isn't going to do a hell of a lot.
I didn't even know that penalty existed. Blech...
Yup we have the worst of both worlds for our scythes and Monoliths. No trasport Keyword means our units can't move after coming on the board and don't forget the lossing ALL your units if the blow it up which is really easy since they don't have QS....
You don’t lose all of your units as long as any other portal units are around.
This is true but that's a ridiculous insurance premium
It doesn’t have to be structured that way. 2 transports, 2 sets of troops: 1 dies, the second teleports in the two sets of troops over 2 turns.
Oddly, the more transports you run, the more reliable this becomes.
Thing is, if they kill the first night scythe turn one, they definitely will kill the second NS turn two, and you loose that tomb world unit
2017/11/16 19:43:17
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I know I'm begging for Ghost Arks to be open topped again and that Night Scythes get much cheaper so we got a reason to use Gauss Immortals more.
Ghost Arks, yes, but even if Night Scythes got cheaper, how would they be of much use to Immortals? (you use the "disembark" portal before moving the flyer, so they'd probably be blown out of the sky before they get anywhere near what the Immortals were hoping to shoot).
Plus, seeing as how Necrons have the extra added penalty to Monolith and Night Scythe "disembarking" where the HQ aren't allowed to use the same portal as the infantry in the same turn, your Tesla Immortals won't have their Overlord nearby to give them MWBD unless you get him his own Night Scythe to get out of that turn (AND hope it wasn't shot down the turn before, too).
No, unless Chapter Approved features a massive overhaul of how our transports work, a price change isn't going to do a hell of a lot.
I didn't even know that penalty existed. Blech...
Yup we have the worst of both worlds for our scythes and Monoliths. No trasport Keyword means our units can't move after coming on the board and don't forget the lossing ALL your units if the blow it up which is really easy since they don't have QS....
You don’t lose all of your units as long as any other portal units are around.
This is true but that's a ridiculous insurance premium
It doesn’t have to be structured that way. 2 transports, 2 sets of troops: 1 dies, the second teleports in the two sets of troops over 2 turns.
Oddly, the more transports you run, the more reliable this becomes.
Thing is, if they kill the first night scythe turn one, they definitely will kill the second NS turn two, and you loose that tomb world unit
Yeah, essentially you want 2 Night Scythes per unit, and there's no unit worth that many points in Transport.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/16 19:43:36
2017/11/16 20:12:20
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I know I'm begging for Ghost Arks to be open topped again and that Night Scythes get much cheaper so we got a reason to use Gauss Immortals more.
Ghost Arks, yes, but even if Night Scythes got cheaper, how would they be of much use to Immortals? (you use the "disembark" portal before moving the flyer, so they'd probably be blown out of the sky before they get anywhere near what the Immortals were hoping to shoot).
Plus, seeing as how Necrons have the extra added penalty to Monolith and Night Scythe "disembarking" where the HQ aren't allowed to use the same portal as the infantry in the same turn, your Tesla Immortals won't have their Overlord nearby to give them MWBD unless you get him his own Night Scythe to get out of that turn (AND hope it wasn't shot down the turn before, too).
No, unless Chapter Approved features a massive overhaul of how our transports work, a price change isn't going to do a hell of a lot.
I didn't even know that penalty existed. Blech...
Yup we have the worst of both worlds for our scythes and Monoliths. No trasport Keyword means our units can't move after coming on the board and don't forget the lossing ALL your units if the blow it up which is really easy since they don't have QS....
You don’t lose all of your units as long as any other portal units are around.
This is true but that's a ridiculous insurance premium
It doesn’t have to be structured that way. 2 transports, 2 sets of troops: 1 dies, the second teleports in the two sets of troops over 2 turns.
Oddly, the more transports you run, the more reliable this becomes.
Thing is, if they kill the first night scythe turn one, they definitely will kill the second NS turn two, and you loose that tomb world unit
Yeah, essentially you want 2 Night Scythes per unit, and there's no unit worth that many points in Transport.
I think at 3 NS for 3 unit’s it works out:
Turn 2
1 dies (2 remain)
2 drop units
Turn 3
1 dies (1 remains)
1 drops the last unit
Whereby, shooting the Night Scythes does not prohibit their drop, and therefore, shooting them is not worth it. Accordingly none die.
You are still left with the troubling calculus, however, that their gun is poor (costed fairly, but not useful: see prior comment made by another poster which helps explain) and the timing of the teleport PRIOR to moving is incredibly limiting.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I know this will auto append to the prior post, but it is a separate dialogue!
I feel like weapons with Odd strength are a bit worse in this Edition than weapons with Even strength profiles. A weapon with even strength will always be only *just* strong enough to achieve damage-on-2s, while never paying a premium for having a “useless” extra point of strength.
Perhaps the only exception to this is Strength 5, since Toughness 4 is specifically, and particularly prevalent.
Thoughts?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/16 20:15:32
2017/11/16 20:18:38
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: I know I'm begging for Ghost Arks to be open topped again and that Night Scythes get much cheaper so we got a reason to use Gauss Immortals more.
Ghost Arks, yes, but even if Night Scythes got cheaper, how would they be of much use to Immortals? (you use the "disembark" portal before moving the flyer, so they'd probably be blown out of the sky before they get anywhere near what the Immortals were hoping to shoot).
Plus, seeing as how Necrons have the extra added penalty to Monolith and Night Scythe "disembarking" where the HQ aren't allowed to use the same portal as the infantry in the same turn, your Tesla Immortals won't have their Overlord nearby to give them MWBD unless you get him his own Night Scythe to get out of that turn (AND hope it wasn't shot down the turn before, too).
No, unless Chapter Approved features a massive overhaul of how our transports work, a price change isn't going to do a hell of a lot.
I didn't even know that penalty existed. Blech...
Yup we have the worst of both worlds for our scythes and Monoliths. No trasport Keyword means our units can't move after coming on the board and don't forget the lossing ALL your units if the blow it up which is really easy since they don't have QS....
You don’t lose all of your units as long as any other portal units are around.
This is true but that's a ridiculous insurance premium
It doesn’t have to be structured that way. 2 transports, 2 sets of troops: 1 dies, the second teleports in the two sets of troops over 2 turns.
Oddly, the more transports you run, the more reliable this becomes.
Thing is, if they kill the first night scythe turn one, they definitely will kill the second NS turn two, and you loose that tomb world unit
Yeah, essentially you want 2 Night Scythes per unit, and there's no unit worth that many points in Transport.
I think at 3 NS for 3 unit’s it works out:
Turn 2
1 dies (2 remain)
2 drop units
Turn 3
1 dies (1 remains)
1 drops the last unit
Whereby, shooting the Night Scythes does not prohibit their drop, and therefore, shooting them is not worth it. Accordingly none die.
You are still left with the troubling calculus, however, that their gun is poor (costed fairly, but not useful: see prior comment made by another poster which helps explain) and the timing of the teleport PRIOR to moving is incredibly limiting.
The issue comes when your opponent goes first and has strong shooting (like Guard, or Guilliman with Razorbacks, etc):
Turn one: One of your Night Scythes die. Two move up.
Turn two: Another Scythe dies. Last one drops and moves. Two units still off the board.
Turn three: Last Scythe dies. Two units die. Womp womp.
Not to mention: What's worth dropping?
No seriously. The only thing I can think of is 20 man Warrior units onto objectives, but even that seems suboptimal.
When you deep strike or transport units downfield in most armies, it's a unit that has strong but short ranged shooting that you want to get into range. Plasma, Melta, Heavy Flamers - that sort of thing. But Necrons don't have that. Or you're transporting melee units so they're closer, but Lychguard are extremely "meh" and Flayed Ones have their own problems.
tl;dr: I think Night Scythes suck in this edition and really hope they either drop in points or get rules changes. I'd take them at 100-120 points, not at 174.
2017/11/16 20:23:42
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I know it might be tempting to wait until Chapter Approved, however I almost think that makes it more important that we gauge relative utilities now: so we have a good point of comparison come CA.
2017/11/17 19:56:32
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I'm sure they will fix the Night Scythe. They will have to change the way tomb world deployment works.
They should also have the same rules as AM Valkyries where they can drop of units anytime during their move at least 9" from the enemy and with similiar rules as deep striking units. In 7th infantry could either disembark before the NS moved or after.
Perhaps the Tesla destructor could get 4 additional hits on a 6? At 3+ to hit it would give it about 11-12 hits, which would make it better against both vehicles and infantry.
2017/11/17 20:37:11
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
sieGermans wrote: Can we review the rationale behind the Canoptek Stalker (A) vs. Praetorians (B) again?
Stalker is the same number of points for fewer attacks and less resilience. How have we graded them so differently?
I'd be interested in that too, I feal the opinion on much of the necron fast attack units has shifted over the period of 8th ed
I really love my pretorians. With the blade a full unit of 10 can dish out 30 attacks. They are fast, they fly, and you have to kill them down to the last man with autopass morale.
At 350 points though? Gtf out of here
2017/11/17 20:45:56
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I played one game with my 'Crons shortly after 8th dropped. Got tabled in three turns by a mediocre Tempestus list and thought "Hmm. Maybe I should wait until I have a better idea on how to build an 8th ed. list". Two weeks later, I read that Necrons had yet to finished higher than the 40th percentile in any major tournaments, so I decided to focus on AoS until GW throws us a bone. Doesn't sound like we've been doing much better since, but hopefully we'll get something decent in CA, and we won't have to wait more than a few more months for our Codex. Oh well. I'm gonna try to get in a game of 40k this weekend (I miss my metal dudes!).
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress 2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
2017/11/17 20:57:08
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
It's a funnything my club still calls crons dirty cheats, and refuse to play against half my stuff as its "broken" regardless of the stuff they can take. It's going to be a double edged sword for me when they do release the Dex as I already know they won't play against them.
2017/11/17 21:08:17
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
EnTyme wrote: I played one game with my 'Crons shortly after 8th dropped. Got tabled in three turns by a mediocre Tempestus list and thought "Hmm. Maybe I should wait until I have a better idea on how to build an 8th ed. list". Two weeks later, I read that Necrons had yet to finished higher than the 40th percentile in any major tournaments, so I decided to focus on AoS until GW throws us a bone. Doesn't sound like we've been doing much better since, but hopefully we'll get something decent in CA, and we won't have to wait more than a few more months for our Codex. Oh well. I'm gonna try to get in a game of 40k this weekend (I miss my metal dudes!).
Same boat. I actually own Imperial Guard but would much rather play Necrons. Been doing nothing but AoS and Shadespire lately.
They just need to drop points for anything that's not a Troop or HQ at the moment. Some things are probably fine (I think the C'tan are imo appropriately priced, and Deathmarks more need a weapon fix than points), but geez, getting any worthwhile unit on the table costs an arm and a leg. Destroyers haven't even left the box since 8th.
2017/11/17 22:11:17
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
- Hive tyrant with extra shooting
- Hive tyrant vanilla
- Barbed Hierodule
- Exocrine
- 3 Hive Guard
- 3 Hive Guard
- 3 Tyranid Warrior
- 1 Biovore
- 3 Ripper swarms
- 3 Ripper swarms (both in deep strike)
(his Ripper Swarms are Troop choices, can you believe it)
DEPLOYMENT: ------------------------
We were playing by the old rules, I completed first, meaning I got to go first.
We deployed like this:
Spoiler:
Letters should be fairly self explanatory, eg. "E" = Exocrine, "N" = Nightbringer, "I" = Immortal etc.
And this is how it looked on table:
Spoiler:
Initially I was thinking I could drop the Flayed Ones in range of Imotekh's buff, to fend of approaching hordes( genestealers or gaunts), but alas, he did not bring any.
So my plan after seeing his army became roughly:
- Shoot big things with the Stalker and Ark
- Shoot smaller things with MWBD tesla immortals
- Use the Nightbringer to go after less choppy big shooters (Exocrine/Hive guard)
- Harass his backlines with the Flayed Ones.
And then he seized on me. With my army deployed in an exposed forward
position. I thought that was that...
---------------- TURN 1: ----------------
Spoiler:
Man those Impalor Cannons of the Hive Guard, they are everything the Gauss Cannons wish they were, 36" Heavy 2, S8, -2, D3, ignores LOS, ignores cover.
He easily destroyed the Stalker and puts wounds on the DD Ark and some scarabs, but does not move towards me. Holds back his Rippers for now. I feared he would blast away the scarabs and destroy the Nightbringer. All in all not too bad.
My turn:
He has exposed his warlord in range for the C'tan's short ranged attacks. With all the tricks in the bags of the Nightbringer and Imotekh I hoped to be able to bring it down without even using the DD Ark (so that it can start pounding his big Lord of war)
Then this happens: The 9 next dice rolls I make are all 1s and single 2(!). I died a little inside.
- Advanced 4 scarabs: Rolled a 1
- Nightbringers Assault D6 shots: Rolled a 1 - Roll to hit his warlord (2+) with that one attack: Rolled a 1 - Fired antimatter meteor on the warlord: Rolled a 1
Decide to use the DD Ark to make a solid dent in his warlord:
- Heavy D3 hits: Rolled a 1 - I CP rerolled it: Rolled a 2 (so still 1 hit)
- Rolled one hit die: Rolled a 1
- Imotekh shoots (2+) at his warlord: Rolled a 1
I needed to kill something in the shooting phase, so I decided to target Imotekh's D6 mortal wounds ability on his lone Biovore. It triggers on 2+:
- Imotekh's ability: Rolled a 1
Now, I work as a statistician, I had seen my opponent roll those exact dice with seemingly average results and I'm not superstitious. Yet at this point I changed dice set.
It was an instant success: MWBD Tesla immortals clears 3 Tyranid warriors from the nearby ruin.
I brought in my Flayed Ones behind his Hive Guard. They of course failed their charge.
---------------- TURN 2: ----------------
Spoiler:
He focuses on the Flayed Ones, but with strike of rare luck I manage to pluck models to leave 2 out of LOS of his final shooting units. Immortals and DD Ark suffers some damage.
I spend my last 2 CP to pass morale and bring back 6-7 Flayed Ones. And with that the tables turned.
With better dice rolling I easily kill the Hive Tyrant Warlord (though I had to resort to the DD Ark to finish off the last wound).
Nightbringer charges the Exocrine, takes 2 wounds overwatch, but makes the charge, rolls all 4 hits (2+), rolls 4 wounds (2+), and rolls 17 damage, killing it in one go. Amazing!
He is now Exposed, but that Exocrine was murdalizing my army. But with the Exocrine and Warlord Hive Tyrant gone from that flank, it was now under control.
Flayed Ones charge one unit of Hive Guard then consolidates into the next. Chips off some wounds, but their guns are silent for some time.
Status:
Spoiler:
Flayed One action in the rear:
Spoiler:
(Image is actually from his Turn 3, as you can see the Rippers he brought in then, but the FO and HG are largely unchanged)
---------------- TURN 3: ----------------
Spoiler:
He smites the Nightbringer to death.
Barbed Hierodule and 2nd Hive tyrant pounds the scarabs and the immortals that are now in cover, they survive with manageable casualties.
Both his ripper swarm units come in to try to salvage his back line problems. One of them makes it into combat but don't make much of a difference.
At this point it's an attrition game. Which is great news.
My turn, scarabs move up to lock themselves in combat with the Biovore, other scarabs take care of one the unenganged Ripper swarm unit. Immortals lurk in the middle ruin raining MWBD tesla wherever possible. DD Ark scores a wound on his Lord of War, inflicting 6 damage.
Flayed Ones reanimate and continue working on the Hive Guard.
---------------- TURN 4: ----------------
Spoiler:
He moves back his Hive Tyrant and Barbed Hierodule to deal with the Flayed Ones, shoots at the Immortals, but makes a mistake and advances his Hive Tyrant, thus cannot charge, but blocks the path of the Barbed Hierodule. The gigantic Lord of War charges two nearby scarabs instead. Only manages to kill them with the last die.
I reanimate my losses.
With his Lord of war available in the open again, I blast another successful wound from the DDark, rolling another 6.
MWBD tesla immortals kill the lone Biovore and shoots at the Hive Tyrant (no damage). Flayed Ones continues their work in the back.
Map:
Spoiler:
---------------- TURN 5: ----------------
Spoiler:
At this point a Necron victory is a given. He has no man (animal) power to hunt down objectives, the Immortals will survive anything he throws at them in shooting, and I score more VP than him every turn. (Scarabs are awesome!)
He moves back to finish my Flayed Ones with the Hierodule over to fight phases, I take the opportunity to advance out with the DD Ark to score the Advance mission (Move out of own Deployment zone).
At the end he rolls below 3 to continue so the game ends anyway.
His list was experimental and interesting, strong shooting for nids in 8th even stronger now with the new codex, and the way the match went at 1500 points that Lord of War was too expensive and prevented him fielding several smaller units for board control and objectives.
That in combination with Flayed Ones dropping in to keep his Hive Guard busy, sealed the deal. This was the first time he had that nasty reanimation surprise happen to him with a near wiped out unit that bounces back. I won't be let off that easily next time.
Though I could easily have gone first, rolled average, and brought down his warlord and chipped of several wounds on his Lord of war, that too would have been a very different game. The Nightbringer could have survived fighting the Exocrine had I played a little smarter.
Also he should have used his Rippers to block access to his rear.
My DD Ark never got to use his flayer arrays, but they were a nice Ripper swarm deterrent. He could have forced me to Fly away and fire at low power though, but at turn 3 it would have made little difference.
It was nice that the tesla immortals wiped the Tyranid Warriors in one go, but after that they didn't have any good targets. I'd still bring them 10 times out of 10!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/17 22:12:49
2017/11/18 14:27:20
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
If you guys settle on a new score for things I can make the edit, but I mean, in a few weeks we're going to need to potentially redo ALL the scores, so is it really that Immediately necessary?