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Had a bit of a chuckle yesterday playing my friend. I said 'ok im not gonna do this, but ima show you how I just won...'

Yesterday me and a friend were playing a capture the flag match, corner to corner each with a fort complex.

Anywho he had kept some units back to guard his flag but there was just enough room in the corner and he had placed his flag near the edge unfortunately (he had placed assuming I might try to bring in a 10+ man squad). So Naturally I grand illusioned up my cryptek with the veil (no mention of table edge in grand illusion text). Then with my initiative I moved him onto the flag and used the veil to GTFO at the end of the movement and placed my cryptek back onto my flag stand area. If I had been playing them I suppose I could have done the same thing with Obyron and keeping Nemesor back. *chuckle*

We both laughed and reset the board to play again with a few minor changes on his end with my permission like pulling his flag slightly more in from the edge (im helping him learn so I dont mind). Naturally I lost the second time around because he played mostly defensive/artillery imperial guard focused and just blasted me apart and sent in one team that could pick up the objective in a transport (the only units on his side that could pick it up). Rolled very poorly for my QS and invul saves on my doomsday arks and my spyder repairs so by turn 2 I had lost my long range. Thankfully I was able to rededicate the spyders to fixing up the fort structures etc but it was too small a bucket to bail out all the water.

Nearly got his flag crew with a batch of deathmarks and flayed ones i'd been holding onto. They popped out of the transport and I formed a screen with my deathmarks and shot into them. After which he had to smash through that line but he didn't have the actions to get back to the transport so my flayed ones showed up. Sadly I failed my charge even with a CP I'd squirreled away for it. :(

At which point he nabbed the flag and hauled ass and I couldn't keep up. GG at that point. Was close to forcing a draw (assuming he couldn't table me in remaining turns) with that play. Alas it was not meant to be.

Probably should have used the flayed ones to disrupt 2-3 of the tanks in his fort, even if they couldn't cause much damage forcing him to back out of combat and not being able to shoot might have got me one or more turns of fire out of my DDA's... Heck if I had sent the Cryptek in via GI and used them as a screen now with invul I might have been able to get him into reach of the flag and TP out. But he probably would have just focus fired once he realized what I was doing and that probably wouldn't have held up.

Best not to dwell too much on the 'what could I have done' I suppose.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
The veil has to be put on a HQ right, not just a character?

Ie - I cant equip a veil onto a Ctan shard right?

don't remember the specification, but its said elsewhere in CA that C'Tans can't take relics or the new warlord trait

 skoffs wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:
I'm curious why Immortals aren't the superior choice

I'm pretty sure the consensus has been Immortals are the better choice for a while now, especially considering their Tesla interaction with MWBD.
It's usually new players who advocate for Warriors.

Or just really old players who like the silver tide, like me
Warrior tides are expensive though. That's probably the biggest drawback behind them. Then again, they are cheaper than in 3rd, so you can spam more of them now.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

torblind wrote:
don't remember the specification, but its said elsewhere in CA that C'Tans can't take relics or the new warlord trait

It explicitly states that C'tan cannot take artifacts. C'tan can't even have warlord traits.

If scarabs had the ability to block shots for Spyders like Tau drones (or something similar) do you think people would take spyders more? If so how would you use them?

Or would it make Spyder and Scarab heavy builds a little more viable (ie lots of spyder squads in small groups there to continue replacing larger numerous squads of scarabs around them that sacrifice themselves for the hive effectively) ?

Also should scarab stat blocks be fixed so they no longer have a 3+ BS since they have no ranged options? Ie - make it 6+ or --- and make them slightly cheaper, or offer them something like the ability to take 'pistol' class weapons (probably particle or tesla). I seriously want Scarabs to have the ability to take tesla weapons if only so I could call them 'Lightning bugs' *chuckle*

I'd actually like to have a c'tan that's as strong as a primarch. It seems primarchs are becoming pretty common nowadays, and you'd think literal stargods would be as strong as one.

Cth - well the ones we have currently are 'shards'. Even our lord of war version the TV is just a slightly pieced together puzzel (3-4 pieces of one).

But yeah I would totally buy the 'void dragon' model, especially if there's a story ark or campaign where it finally awakens and busts out of mars. Maybe even have the escape aided by Anrakyr who leads a revolt on the way out as he helps the necrons take control of a bunch of skitari and/or heavily modded mechanicum as our new Pariahs. *chuckle* Maybe Trazyn also joins the fray if only to take advantage of the distraction and steasl one of the most advanced / complete Standard Template Design databases on mars as potential inspiration for refurbishing the ancient necron legions. (even though I know it wouldn't be needed cause Necrons are way more intelligent etc. But the long sleep and only a fraction of the soul / ancient AI systems that need a tune up could easily have forgotten or have corrupted data on various subjects.)

Necrons would finally get a titan like unit (though give it monstrous keyword instead of titanic so macro weapons aren't even better against him. Heck if he was a flier and titanic fieling GP against it would be its time to shine. xD)

I found a cool bone scheme with metal and green i think i am going to try and replicate.

Lothmar wrote:
Cth - well the ones we have currently are 'shards'. Even our lord of war version the TV is just a slightly pieced together puzzel (3-4 pieces of one).

But yeah I would totally buy the 'void dragon' model, especially if there's a story ark or campaign where it finally awakens and busts out of mars. Maybe even have the escape aided by Anrakyr who leads a revolt on the way out as he helps the necrons take control of a bunch of skitari and/or heavily modded mechanicum as our new Pariahs. *chuckle* Maybe Trazyn also joins the fray if only to take advantage of the distraction and steasl one of the most advanced / complete Standard Template Design databases on mars as potential inspiration for refurbishing the ancient necron legions. (even though I know it wouldn't be needed cause Necrons are way more intelligent etc. But the long sleep and only a fraction of the soul / ancient AI systems that need a tune up could easily have forgotten or have corrupted data on various subjects.)

Necrons would finally get a titan like unit (though give it monstrous keyword instead of titanic so macro weapons aren't even better against him. Heck if he was a flier and titanic fieling GP against it would be its time to shine. xD)

Footage of Trazyn leaving Mars with the Void Dragon:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ysa-4NsQ_A

Now what would be a truly amazing twist, would be if the void dragon was ironic and lead an assault on the imperial palace. The results of which ending in the void dragon snatching up the emperor throne and all (maybe throw out a Tesseract prison like a pokeball and suck it all up) and making off with him so that he could return the favor as it were and keep him just barely alive and locked up so he gets to play warden.

Granted it's no longer apples and oranges in the situations. Yeah sure in the past the emperor was the only one strong enough to subdue the dragon in the past, but at the same time man was very primitive back then and only had the forces of one world. Now the monkeys have many sophisticated tools and the armies of many worlds and stars they can muster.

…I forget are any primarchs currently known to be on Terra or in sol system (or within a short jump assuming Terra can hold a few weeks/months)?
But yeah if the crons were gonna kidnap the emperor they'd probably have to write it into the story that they seal the webway portal there (since we have the tech for it). Otherwise Terras getting invaded by chaos at that point out the palace.

Lothmar wrote:

…I forget are any primarchs currently known to be on Terra or in sol system (or within a short jump assuming Terra can hold a few weeks/months)?

Possibly Dorn.

En - My brain misassociated the necrodermis armed Ferrus Manus with Dorn at first. Good thing I checked. *chuckle*

That would be a very interesting little tidbit to finally resolve. Ferrus is defending Terra or joins them after the Dragon has been attacking for some time. The dragon is injured and then suddenly it seems like the creature gets a second wind as Ferrus shows up and it gestures towards the advancing forces and the living metal all goes flying to and affixing to the dragons own necrodermis from his arms.

What's the likelihood this is us?

None, apparently. Further leaks indicate that tomorrow's reveal is Custodes, because that makes sense with the preview. -_-

Woo. Just what the game needs more Space Marines models. Yup that is what I think to myself when I look around at all the tables as the rest of the armies sit in FailCast or even metal...

Yeah what the hell is that bs, it would be so much cooler if it was the Necron codex reveal plus some more models. What if we got our own "primarch", the Silent King? That would be so much more hype than some stupid custodes

I don't thing any xenox codexs are going to get new models yet. They are going to pump out the new sigmar marines to boost sales. We will probably see CSM primarch next if I had to guess. Just in time for when they do a Primaris release for CSM so all the CSM players can rebuy all their marines just like the SM players.

Maybe eventually all factions will have a Papa Smurf Equivalent but I wouldn't my breath for the new codex.

Necrons = Silent King
Tyrandis = Norn Queen
Eldar = Cegorach
Orks = Prob Bugg Ghazghkull and new model
CSM = pick any chapter
Tau = no idea, who cares they are all equal right?

So, I really enjoy this game and playing Necrons.

However, I recognize this game is a Space Marines as protagonist game. Chaos is the primary antagonist and Xenos (such as Necrons) are just side quests.

You will be less disappointed if you remember this and always temper your expectations when they promise “big announcements.”

Consider yourself lucky you aren’t collecting Squats.

Oh well, we've waited what, 15 million years? Couple more months won't hurt.

*rolls over in his Necrodermis blanket*

Wake me up when the REAL faction get's its codex.

I played a 2v2 vs Blood angels and Guard
Managed to kill the dropping angels and drednaughts using scarab screens, heavy destroyers and immortals...but my god...I can't put a damn wound on armor at range...Do we even have a solution to guard parking lots?? I don't think we do that isn't an overpriced doomsday ark, or squishy heavy destroyers...blegh...

Had to hold my Veil of Darkness until the last turn to deep strike, push them off a home objective, and win the game, but man did I take a lot of losses for very, very little damage in kind, my...ahem...eldar ally (random teams) did most of the damage, and I *took* most of the damage.

Triarch Stalkers with twin heavy G, force multiplier with long range anti tank and quantum shields. Synergies with DDA.

Anyone know a way to convert units into Flayed Ones for a relatively low cost? The official models and on E-bay are just sooo damn expensive!

Or maybe any 3rd-party ones?

Warrior bodies, some green stuff, a couple of those smaller spare claws from the Wraith kit (I didn't use all of mine. Only gave them the main two big claws).

I cut claws from plasticard and used spare hands (!0 available) from the immortal/deathmark kit

(pictures in my gallery page)

I'm getting tired of waiting for our codex. I thought it would be announced by now due to the fact that they are unplayable because CA refused to acknowledge Necrons (WL trait and strategem withstanding).

iGuy91 wrote: my...ahem...eldar ally

. . . get out.

Make our voices heard, send GW emails. I doubt it'll make a difference, but hey, we gotta try.

My biggest fear is that they fix the obsiously broken things (trnsports lacking transport keyword and some points reduction) but keep Reanimate as is. It doesn't scale well at all and good opponents can really easily ignore it.

Here's a draft of what I'd have to say to GW about the current state of Necrons. It's mainly gathered from reading the discussions here and some anectodal experiments from playing with them.

I'll start with what has been working great for Necrons:

Quantum Shielding: It's great. It sounds alien and is unique to Necrons, is a great rule that is relevant most of the time and feels very rewarding.

Reanimation Protocols: Going back to a unique rule that actually puts models back in the table (as opposed to a plain extra save) was very welcome. The rule has issues and I'll discuss them in detail below.

Necrons are innacurately perceived as powerful. This is perhaps the greatest hardship on balancing the Necron Codex. On the surface, their rules sound powerful and intimidating, but a somewhat informed opponent can easily focus on the weaknesses and guarantee victory due to Reanimation Protocols inner workings.

Reanimation protocols issues

New rules wins: The new rendition of Reanimation Protocols (RP) feels very thematic, bringing back some of the post "FNP-esque" ruling of 6th and 7th. As much as it feels great though, its current iteration creates some crippling issues that I'll explore below.

Negation Issue: The rule can be completely negated by opponent if he manages to wipe your squads. There is nothing the Necron player can do to prevent this and it basically means that the premium in unit cost paid for the special rule is lost.

Scale Issue: Reanimation Protocols (RP) as is has a scaling problem in where it is strong in small scale games and loses power significantly as the games scale up. The more power your opponent has to wipe your units, the smaller the effect of RP is. The issue becomes even more significant if they fail to wipe the unit, as the power is at peak efficiency the more rolls you have to make.

Please address this issue. As it is a key ability to Necrons and equals a premium on unit costing it should be carefully planned.

Army composition issue: RP encourages large units to make maximum use of the ability, but that makes it so Necron Armies have to pay a tactical tax on top of paying a unit point cost tax already. Larger blocks of warriors means costlier base tax for detachments. It all results in Necrons paying several interests on top of the base unit cost that compound into very limited actual build choices. This also results in the army losing in on Command points due to the high tax of its troops choices.

Conclusion: The combination of being easily negated by experienced players and the fact that it heavily impacts list-building into either ignoring it (going for Canoptek units or Quantum-shield spam) or sinking points into huge squads that don't do that much (basic infantry with no special wargear) means that Necron Players have a small toolbox to work with.

Proposed exploration: Allow rolling of RP after a unit wipe in some fashion. Maybe allow them to bolster other units already on the table (enemies have to wipe ALL warriors to deny warrior RP) or allow Necrons to roll for wiped units (resurrection orbs should do THAT and be cheaper).

Tombworld Deployment issues

Cool new rule: It should feel like you are the master of a legion that can teleport troops on a whim across the galaxy, but the actual inner workings of the rules makes them just broken and too much a liability.

Lack of Transport keyword: The lack of this keyword on our transports means that units arriving from Transportation Beams arrive from reserves and can't move after arriving.

Lack of character support: Since you can only bring 1 unit at a time it breaks any type of character synergy as troops are isolated and unsupported, unless the player dedicates extra resources on an additional transport for the supporting characters.

Losing the transported units is too great a liability: Since we lose the emergency disembarkation rules and just outright lose our reserved units, on top of the issues above, Necron Players simply don't feel like investing in transports and putting precious points in tomb-world development worth the risk of losing all that investment.

Proposed exploration: Consider allowing characters to be beamed over alongside a unit deployed from Tombworld. Give every model able to teleport units onto the table the Transport keyword. Consider some alternative to emergency disembarkation or even just allow the units to safely disembark upon destruction and factor that in the points cost of a transport unit, something that makes Necrons feel even more advanced, ignoring certain perils that other races must consider when transporting units.

Lack of character synergy

Destroyer Lords are melee beasts, but buff a ranged option.

Necron Lords are near useless as we usually invest heavily.

Overlords only buff a single unit, as opposed to something like SM chapter masters and their buff auras.

Proposed exploration: Explore the Necron Hierarchy. Make Overlords be able to buff more units the more Lords you have, make Lords cheaper and allow them to enhance an Overlord's buffs. Something unique to Necrons. Overlords could get a secondary aura ability based on supporting lords/crypteks.

Lack of Psychic power counters

Necrons should be somewhat resistant to Psychic powers, especially the ones that deal with Leadership effects.

... you realize it's most likely too late, right?
Even if they saw this, if the codex is coming out in the next couple of months, that means it's already ready to print, if not currently being printed.

 skoffs wrote:
... you realize it's most likely too late, right?
Even if they saw this, if the codex is coming out in the next couple of months, that means it's already ready to print, if not currently being printed.

I do, but hey, we gotta start somewhere right?

With enough pressure they may try to address something in a FAQ like at least seeing the issue and dropping unit costs even more than initially planned. I don't know, they have added keywords before (CCB getting Character) so at least some stuff can be fixed after release.

An alternative / addition to your RP suggestion - allow Spyders to permit nearby wiped units to make reanimation rolls, like how they worked in 3rd ed.

Other suggestions - more geometric necron vehicles. The new vehicles don't really fit with the necron aesthetic, nor do they make much sense lore wise. Why would a race obssesed with self preservation make such flimsy vehicles, especially if they are meant to be on the battlefield? I would like to see more vehicles like the monolith; high armor, solid, no obvious weakpoints. Let these be the main combat vehicles of the necron, and the 5th ed ones be more like support / repurposed civilian combat vehicles, like how the ghost ark was just a hearse.

More teleportation options - like in 3rd ed.

CC destroyers - because a caste of machines dedicated to murder shouldn't be picky about getting in close

Pariahs - because that was a great concept and cool models. Lychguard and praets do not compare. At all.

A big canoptek unit that serves as an HQ. Something like a canoptek overseer / controller thing, that directs and buffs nearby canopteks

Where do you even post suggestions like that? Spam their facebook?
I did ask something about necrons, and I all got was the generic "don't worry, necrons will get "cool" stuff, promise!"

Cool in is quotation, because apparently GW's idea of cool differs from mine concerning necrons.
Evidently GW's idea of cool is to give necrons baby's bonnet crest and giving them vehicles that whilst may look fine on their own, isn't really consistent with the necron aesthetic or lore, and also are complete bitches to assemble.

Yeah, that reveal was a MASSIVE let down for me.

Geederps... derping it up right into 2018!