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I mean, nothing says you have to bring those deathmarks in early. You could give him a false sense of security by playing really slowly and then on the final turn drop DM squads on the remaining objectives, finding out which ones the spy, deploying the biggest squad around that and surviving one final turn if you cant get your cloaker there. *chuckle*

But yeah if you happen to find your spy early on while sneaking around and you cloak away to an opposite corner and force him to come to you you can deploy your remaining Dm's as fences/trench lines in front of that corner (as he gets into range cause why lose shots unless you know he has means of TP'ing and you are giving yourself protective bubblewrap from DS) to try and slow them down.

But yeah if he's gonna be using flying demons etc then he'll be able to jump those over your fences or out of the melee tie ups and continue towards what he needs to take out etc. Unfortunately just cause you have a flier in melee with a flier doesn't mean that it cant pull out etc and fire. There should be 'dogfight' rules for that purpose so that if you move out a melee as a flier with another flier its like a normal unit withdrawing. *chuckle*

Darsath wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
For those who don't visit News & Rumours:

Spoiler:

Didn't Games Workshop announce the next 2 codices after Daemons would be Custodes and Thousand Sons though? Where are they?

They announced the codices, but they never stated that those were the next releases. I imagine we'll have an update on the next releases at the LVO.

EDIT: From the AoS thread in News & Rumours...

Note: that release schedule comes from an unofficial (albeit seemingly reliable) source. Please take it with a grain of salt.

I pinged GW about it on face book, and their reply was predictably lacking:

GW Facebook wrote:You'll get news just as soon as we have some to share! We reckon there are going to be a good number of releases this year, so it might be worth waiting and seeing what is coming..

So the closest we've gotten to an official release date is this year. However unless I miss read the internet subtext, they are hinting that it will be worth the wait, and possibly multiple releases. Then again I might be reading into it what I want to see. As for the march release date that's been floating around, it would be unfortunate and unsurprising.

Well, Atia or Hastings (can't remember which) did say that every army should be getting something significant to start 8th, and I don't think he/she would count an 8th ed. codex as being "significant", so I wouldn't be surprised if we got a new model or unit this year. I doubt it'll be available with the codex, though.

How are Annihilation Barges these days? How do they compare against other heavy slots? What are the combo'd well with and what support units do they need?

 Dynas wrote:
How are Annihilation Barges these days? How do they compare against other heavy slots? What are the combo'd well with and what support units do they need?

Do we really have any other option for a mobile anti-infantry vehicle?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
How are Annihilation Barges these days? How do they compare against other heavy slots? What are the combo'd well with and what support units do they need?

Do we really have any other option for a mobile anti-infantry vehicle?

The Ghost Ark is better as an anti-infantry vehicle than as a transport.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
How are Annihilation Barges these days? How do they compare against other heavy slots? What are the combo'd well with and what support units do they need?

Do we really have any other option for a mobile anti-infantry vehicle?

I don't know. I am looking to get into Necrons.

Also are Spyders viable? Question on the Scarab Hive rule: WHen it replenishes the base is it free or does it cost points?

Darsath wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
How are Annihilation Barges these days? How do they compare against other heavy slots? What are the combo'd well with and what support units do they need?

Do we really have any other option for a mobile anti-infantry vehicle?

The Ghost Ark is better as an anti-infantry vehicle than as a transport.

Not as fast though, and you want your arks supporting warriors. That's like the only real reason to take an ark.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dynas wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Dynas wrote:
How are Annihilation Barges these days? How do they compare against other heavy slots? What are the combo'd well with and what support units do they need?

Do we really have any other option for a mobile anti-infantry vehicle?

I don't know. I am looking to get into Necrons.

Also are Spyders viable? Question on the Scarab Hive rule: WHen it replenishes the base is it free or does it cost points?

Its free, but spyders still have a chance to hurt themselves, so its not really viable. You can take them for the gloom prism though, which is handy.

Dynas -

Considering the speed difference between them and scarabs (10 to 6), the range of the mechanic and their limited wounds along with the fact that they have no protection mechanics (ie enemies can shoot past the scarabs and kill the spyders first and then focus down the scarabs) I would say that spyders are not viable in the 'Oh im gonna send a wave of bugs at you with a Catacomb Command Barge surfing the tidal wave' theme army.

In the right circumstances (vehicle repair) they're ok but a little expensive so you want them to have some level of protection like total cover, or being in the invul field of a Gauss Pylon. A nice rear guard of a spyders and small scarab groups with your GP and DDA long range artillery is decent since you can self replenish your defenders that are there to counter stuff that might TP over and charge to mess with your high firepower. However if this doesn't happen those points are pretty much gonna be idle all game and once your artillery is destroyed then these guys will probably just be picked off as you move them in tbh.

As one of the only non forge world units that can carry a gloom prism though they are useful against psyker armies somewhat. But expect them to get killed asap once the enemy figures this out.


---

CS brought up the issue of them possibly hurting themselves with the ability too already. If they had living metal bonus or something this might not be as extreme~ but the fact that they're just robots and dont heal at all and you risk losing 3/4'ths of your wounds in one go (thus if its injured by even 1 wound you are risking killing this model to do this. Compared to some armies that can just do equivalent stuff without rolls / wounds and for free. ) that is definitely no beuno.

Lothmar wrote:
Dynas -

Considering the speed difference between them and scarabs (10 to 6), the range of the mechanic and their limited wounds along with the fact that they have no protection mechanics (ie enemies can shoot past the scarabs and kill the spyders first and then focus down the scarabs) I would say that spyders are not viable in the 'Oh im gonna send a wave of bugs at you with a Catacomb Command Barge surfing the tidal wave' theme army.

In the right circumstances (vehicle repair) they're ok but a little expensive so you want them to have some level of protection like total cover, or being in the invul field of a Gauss Pylon. A nice rear guard of a spyders and small scarab groups with your GP and DDA long range artillery is decent since you can self replenish your defenders that are there to counter stuff that might TP over and charge to mess with your high firepower. However if this doesn't happen those points are pretty much gonna be idle all game and once your artillery is destroyed then these guys will probably just be picked off as you move them in tbh.

As one of the only non forge world units that can carry a gloom prism though they are useful against psyker armies somewhat. But expect them to get killed asap once the enemy figures this out.


---

CS brought up the issue of them possibly hurting themselves with the ability too already. If they had living metal bonus or something this might not be as extreme~ but the fact that they're just robots and dont heal at all and you risk losing 3/4'ths of your wounds in one go (thus if its injured by even 1 wound you are risking killing this model to do this. Compared to some armies that can just do equivalent stuff without rolls / wounds and for free. ) that is definitely no beuno.

Ah, yeah that sucks. It sounds similar to the Tervigon replenishing Gaunts, only its a flat 10 models, no points, no chance to hurt itself. Perhaps if the codex came out and it did 10 wounds worth of scarabs upto the max of the unit, with no ability to hurt itself it would be viable.

Shifting gears a bit, i noticed the first page of this thread, the unit rankings are helpful. Why are Lychguard so low. They are marines with higher toughness and a 4+ invul with S7 AP-4 weapons! It mentions they are slow, 5" but you can always advance. Yet they have a C rating....

No reliable delivery system and still a pricey investment.
Then again, the rating was given before the veil of darkness was finally released in CA, so that might be what they need.

 Dynas wrote:


Ah, yeah that sucks. It sounds similar to the Tervigon replenishing Gaunts, only its a flat 10 models, no points, no chance to hurt itself. Perhaps if the codex came out and it did 10 wounds worth of scarabs upto the max of the unit, with no ability to hurt itself it would be viable.

Shifting gears a bit, i noticed the first page of this thread, the unit rankings are helpful. Why are Lychguard so low. They are marines with higher toughness and a 4+ invul with S7 AP-4 weapons! It mentions they are slow, 5" but you can always advance. Yet they have a C rating....

Because they are slow, and will get smoked before they ever get to the enemy. Also they won't have a 4++ and a s7 weapon, it's either sword and board (3+/4++ S5 AP -3) or warscythe (3+ S7 AP -4). As for veil of darkness they still have to do better than a 9" charge, it's once a game, and screening your units is second nature in 8th ed, so it's hard to catch a HVT.

Yeah, that too. Its higher high damage or durability. You can't have both.

I really wish you could mix the sword and shield Lychguard and the scythe lychguard in one unit

Anyone else think lychguard should have a third option so they could shield and spear (staff or light ( I say Staff of light cause Rod of the Covenant seems to be 2 handed. )) ?

Even a limited form of shooting would make them more appealing in my opinion. But yeah considering RoC and Staff are combo melee/ranged weapons it proves that we have the tech to do it and for such an elite unit I think it fits.

*Imagaines a Kutlakah Lychguard list where they zulu rush while shooting staffs of light and charging as they go* mmmmm

Having board and spear lychguard would be cool. Then you can make them into hoplites.

The most reliable way to get Lychguard into range in one turn is with Nemesor Zandrekh + Obyron + Generic HQ/w Veil of Darkness.

1: You Veil the HQ + Nemesor 9" away from the enemy.

2: You teleport Obyron + Lychguard to Nemesor.

3: You now have a 4" charge (3 with MWBD).



And on the topic of mobile anti-infantry, I'd say Tomb Blades with Gauss Blasters are the best.

 Grimgold wrote:

 Dynas wrote:


Ah, yeah that sucks. It sounds similar to the Tervigon replenishing Gaunts, only its a flat 10 models, no points, no chance to hurt itself. Perhaps if the codex came out and it did 10 wounds worth of scarabs upto the max of the unit, with no ability to hurt itself it would be viable.

Shifting gears a bit, i noticed the first page of this thread, the unit rankings are helpful. Why are Lychguard so low. They are marines with higher toughness and a 4+ invul with S7 AP-4 weapons! It mentions they are slow, 5" but you can always advance. Yet they have a C rating....

Because they are slow, and will get smoked before they ever get to the enemy. Also they won't have a 4++ and a s7 weapon, it's either sword and board (3+/4++ S5 AP -3) or warscythe (3+ S7 AP -4). As for veil of darkness they still have to do better than a 9" charge, it's once a game, and screening your units is second nature in 8th ed, so it's hard to catch a HVT.

Ah. I didnt realize the 4++ was the shield. Sword isn't bad. Yeah the veil of darkness is a once per game thing. It would be better if you could just hold in reserve and DS, rather than having to deploy. Also a 9" charge sucks, still only like a 27% chance. I imagine when they drop the codex one of the Dynasties will be assault oriented and have reroll charges or +1 movement to charges or something.

No worries, it really should be a 3++, like every other shield, but the index was terrified of necrons being too effective with the new RP rules. I also think we got fewer balance passes than the other factions. Still some gems made it thru, like quantum shielding is unique and awesome, and the new RP is the coolest of the FnP like abilities, but they charged us too much for it in terms of the premium we pay on everything else.

Question:

How important do you guys think the 5++ that the Cryptek gives to nearby infantry is?

In my opinion it is not good enough to bring a generic Cryptek or Orikan. Most of the time your infantry get's shot by AP0/AP-1 weapons, meaning the regular save is just as good.

Orikan is too unreliable when it comes to getting his Empowered version. And for a small amount of points you can take Szeras instead of a generic Cryptek, who not only provides the awesome upgrades but some reliable anti-tank for your army.

I personally prefer Szeras to a generic Cryptek, partially because I like really like the model, but his buff is basically "Cryptek buff +1", especially if you are wanting to mix HQ from different Dynasties (Anrakyr with Zandrek/Obyron?). Not sure why you'd want to do that, but still, it's an option with Szeras.

I'm in the minority but for warrior blobs I think a lord is actually a better investment. Not many units can hurt warriors faster than they can regenerate, so one way to inflict permanent damage on warrior blobs is thru morale, since RP doesn't work on units who fled. Lords will gives them a reroll so you are less likely to get boned by a bad roll.

For immortals, a cryptek is probably better, at a 10 leadership and smaller unit size they have less to fear from morale, but the AP of the weapons used needs to be -3 or better for it to be worthwhile. Other than those two crypteks are a bit too slow to keep up with most of our other units.

 Grimgold wrote:
I'm in the minority but for warrior blobs I think a lord is actually a better investment. Not many units can hurt warriors faster than they can regenerate, so one way to inflict permanent damage on warrior blobs is thru morale, since RP doesn't work on units who fled. Lords will gives them a reroll so you are less likely to get boned by a bad roll.

For immortals, a cryptek is probably better, at a 10 leadership and smaller unit size they have less to fear from morale, but the AP of the weapons used needs to be -3 or better for it to be worthwhile. Other than those two crypteks are a bit too slow to keep up with most of our other units.

Mmmm depends.

If you have a squad of 20 and 15 are killed, the reroll wont matter. Only 2CP autopass will save you.

If it is a squad of 15 and 10 died, it will still be D6. Worth 1 CP over an otherwise useless HQ.

 Dynas wrote:


...

Ah. I didnt realize the 4++ was the shield. Sword isn't bad. Yeah the veil of darkness is a once per game thing. It would be better if you could just hold in reserve and DS, rather than having to deploy. Also a 9" charge sucks, still only like a 27% chance. I imagine when they drop the codex one of the Dynasties will be assault oriented and have reroll charges or +1 movement to charges or something.

If you deliver them with an overlord with the relic, you can give them MWBD, which reduces it to an 8" charge (42%), and if you spend a CP reroll you're down to 48% or something.

Quick question, how many wounds do scarabs have and has that value changed much over the years. I ask because I'm deciding how many scarabs to put on each base and, when doing rippers for tyranids, I stuck to the wounds count to dictate how many ( and luckily rippers stick to 3 wounds for a long while)

I would be more inclined to take Szeras if his buff wasn't random.
Why is the greatest mechanical augmenter in the Necron forces unsure what upgrade he's about to implement on a chosen unit of troops?
Make the ability a choice rather than a roll and he'll see a lot more play. At the moment, I'll pass in favor of getting more MWBD givers into my list.

 Overread wrote:
Quick question, how many wounds do scarabs have and has that value changed much over the years. I ask because I'm deciding how many scarabs to put on each base and, when doing rippers for tyranids, I stuck to the wounds count to dictate how many ( and luckily rippers stick to 3 wounds for a long while)

3 wounds. But most models I seel have 4 scarabs on them. I too follow your rule of thumb. Its a nice way to get extra bases.

Yeah, even though there are 4 scarabs on the base, they only have 3 wounds. Its weird.