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2018/01/29 10:12:16
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
One thing I hope we could see that would quietly give Necrons a big edge is an improvement to their weapon range.
At the moment almost every infantry weapon, even the sniper rifles, ends at 24". For your Warriors, Immortals, Destroyers, Deathmarks, heck even your Monolith and Annhiation Barge, this is the case.
Bump that up to 30" or 32" and all of a sudden your opponent has to take Necron gunlines very seriously.
2018/01/29 10:40:18
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
dapperbandit wrote: One thing I hope we could see that would quietly give Necrons a big edge is an improvement to their weapon range.
At the moment almost every infantry weapon, even the sniper rifles, ends at 24". For your Warriors, Immortals, Destroyers, Deathmarks, heck even your Monolith and Annhiation Barge, this is the case.
Bump that up to 30" or 32" and all of a sudden your opponent has to take Necron gunlines very seriously.
Being a short/mid-range shooting army is the Necron style, though. It'd be better to make that work than to try to change the army into Tau.
2018/01/29 10:46:00
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
dapperbandit wrote: One thing I hope we could see that would quietly give Necrons a big edge is an improvement to their weapon range.
At the moment almost every infantry weapon, even the sniper rifles, ends at 24". For your Warriors, Immortals, Destroyers, Deathmarks, heck even your Monolith and Annhiation Barge, this is the case.
Bump that up to 30" or 32" and all of a sudden your opponent has to take Necron gunlines very seriously.
Well, yeah, that's the point. Necrons have always been a mid to short ranged army. If you want long range play Eldar or Tau.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2018/01/29 11:05:30
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
dapperbandit wrote: Fair enough, I think the idea of the Bolt Rifle having the same stats as the standard infantry weapon of the advanced Necrons bothers me.
They don't have the same stats, Gauss Flayers have -1AP. I would really hope that Gauss gets +1 damage for wound rolls of 6+. Right now the straight bonus to their AP is boring and not that beneficial because we now have very few answers to vehicles and monsters. Also, the Tesla destructor is really bad, it needs the D3 damage stat to be anywhere near what it should be.
2018/01/29 15:56:15
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
dapperbandit wrote: Fair enough, I think the idea of the Bolt Rifle having the same stats as the standard infantry weapon of the advanced Necrons bothers me.
They don't have the same stats, Gauss Flayers have -1AP. I would really hope that Gauss gets +1 damage for wound rolls of 6+. Right now the straight bonus to their AP is boring and not that beneficial because we now have very few answers to vehicles and monsters. Also, the Tesla destructor is really bad, it needs the D3 damage stat to be anywhere near what it should be.
Bolt rifles have -1 ap too.
Bolt rifles are 30" range, S4 AP-1
However, they are more like specialist weapons than basic weapons, imo as they are only fieled by Primaris.
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2018/01/29 16:12:21
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
(it may be the 3 hours of sleep talking but~) I cant remember how it worked but all this speculation talk had me feeling nostalgic over the lightning fields our armies used to have for some reason (as in I dont know why im thinking about it, not they didn't make sense thematically)... What did those do? *Tries to keep self from falling asleep while thinking about them*
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/01/29 17:07:07
I was almost tempted to start buying orks and modeling/painting them with a french theme.
I play DA primaris, and intercessors are a surprisingly solid infantry choice. However I don't think the extra 6" of range is make or break for them, it's the three extra inches of rapid fire that really help. Being able to rapid fire from outside charge range is a really neat feature.
Anyway, I'd say the hallmark of necron tactics has been aggression. Necrons being tougher than other armies meant we were always willing to close and go toe to toe blow for blow, so short range didn't matter that much to us. That changed in 8th, since we couldn't rely on RP, we suddenly had a much harder time closing, and staying in short range.That's the biggest sin of this edition for necrons I think, we don't feel like necrons anymore, we feel like weird space marines.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
2018/01/29 20:20:15
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Grimgold wrote: That's the biggest sin of this edition for necrons I think, we don't feel like necrons anymore, we feel like weird space marines.
I disagree, a full blob of Warriors, backed up by Szeras and a Ghost Ark is something Marines will never be able to do.
The biggest problem is (and has been mentioned multiple times by now xD) is that Reanimation Protocols is too easily countered by leadership and close combat. I'm fine with my enemy pouring everything he's got into a full stack of Warriors in order to completely wipe them. There has to be counterplay after all.
What I'm not happy about is the whole 'Oh I lost 10 Warriors, better spent 2 CP or else a gak-ton will run away.'
Or 'Oh I'm locked in combat while taking heavy casualties. Too bad I cannot Reanimate more than 1" away from enemy models, meaning I can barely Reanimate 1/3rd of the casualties.'
2018/01/29 22:12:43
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Grimgold wrote: That's the biggest sin of this edition for necrons I think, we don't feel like necrons anymore, we feel like weird space marines.
I disagree, a full blob of Warriors, backed up by Szeras and a Ghost Ark is something Marines will never be able to do.
The biggest problem is (and has been mentioned multiple times by now xD) is that Reanimation Protocols is too easily countered by leadership and close combat. I'm fine with my enemy pouring everything he's got into a full stack of Warriors in order to completely wipe them. There has to be counterplay after all.
What I'm not happy about is the whole 'Oh I lost 10 Warriors, better spent 2 CP or else a gak-ton will run away.'
Or 'Oh I'm locked in combat while taking heavy casualties. Too bad I cannot Reanimate more than 1" away from enemy models, meaning I can barely Reanimate 1/3rd of the casualties.'
Is that a winning strategy? Rhetorical question, warrior blobs are toothless, and supporting them to make them tougher is just throwing good points after bad. Our best lists don't feel anything like our lists from other editions.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
2018/01/29 22:34:11
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Is that a winning strategy? Rhetorical question, warrior blobs are toothless, and supporting them to make them tougher is just throwing good points after bad. Our best lists don't feel anything like our lists from other editions.
Well I dont know about previous editions, ive only started playing Necrons about a month ago. And yes, I might be biased as Szeras is my favourite HQ.
But I disagree with Warriors being toothless. In rapidfire range, they can put the hurt on pretty much anything that isnt T8+.
40 S4 ap-1 shots, hitting on 2+ cause of Szeras isnt something your opponent can ignore.
But they do need to be the distraction for something else. An approaching Nightbringer Shard, an Overlord dropping in with Tesla Immortals/warsytche Lychguard etc.
Regardless, next match im going to try it. Szeras with 2x 20 Warriors, thrown forward thanks to the Deceiver. Meanwhile, the Nightbringer rushes forward and an Overlord Veils in a squad of 10 Tesla Immortals.
2018/01/29 23:15:29
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I read a great comment on here a little while ago which proposed that the value of RP isn't bringing troops back, it's forcing your enemy to fight against you in a certain way (taking a whole unit down at a time). You punish mistakes in target priority and with good positioning exploit the fact your enemy doesn't have the freedom to choose their targets.
Unfortunately where RP falls down is that our 'tough' units don't kill well enough and our 'killy' units are relatively easy to kill... Warriors kinda fall into the category of tough units, a blob of 20 is hard to shift, especially supported by a Ghost Ark or Orbs, but you'll struggle to kill a lot with them and they're really not mobile enough to do well at capping points.
To an extent all this speculating is pretty useless as hopefully it's a matter of weeks until we see a codex which throws a lot of changes at us, but if we were sticking with what we have... I think I would be experimenting in being more aggressive with my unit selection and positioning to put my opponents in tougher positions? I dunno, maybe multiple smaller threatening units of Immortals?
2018/01/30 15:07:47
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
unitled wrote: I read a great comment on here a little while ago which proposed that the value of RP isn't bringing troops back, it's forcing your enemy to fight against you in a certain way (taking a whole unit down at a time). You punish mistakes in target priority and with good positioning exploit the fact your enemy doesn't have the freedom to choose their targets.
Unfortunately where RP falls down is that our 'tough' units don't kill well enough and our 'killy' units are relatively easy to kill... Warriors kinda fall into the category of tough units, a blob of 20 is hard to shift, especially supported by a Ghost Ark or Orbs, but you'll struggle to kill a lot with them and they're really not mobile enough to do well at capping points.
To an extent all this speculating is pretty useless as hopefully it's a matter of weeks until we see a codex which throws a lot of changes at us, but if we were sticking with what we have... I think I would be experimenting in being more aggressive with my unit selection and positioning to put my opponents in tougher positions? I dunno, maybe multiple smaller threatening units of Immortals?
This is a pretty good summary of the issues Necrons face right now. RP is a pretty good mechanic in and of itself, but the units affected by it can't really make the most of it. I love my metal men, but they're going to stay on the shelf until either our killy units get more durable, or our durable units get more killy. Until then, I'm sticking to AoS.
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress 2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
2018/01/31 13:06:57
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
unitled wrote: I read a great comment on here a little while ago which proposed that the value of RP isn't bringing troops back, it's forcing your enemy to fight against you in a certain way (taking a whole unit down at a time). You punish mistakes in target priority and with good positioning exploit the fact your enemy doesn't have the freedom to choose their targets.
Unfortunately where RP falls down is that our 'tough' units don't kill well enough and our 'killy' units are relatively easy to kill... Warriors kinda fall into the category of tough units, a blob of 20 is hard to shift, especially supported by a Ghost Ark or Orbs, but you'll struggle to kill a lot with them and they're really not mobile enough to do well at capping points.
To an extent all this speculating is pretty useless as hopefully it's a matter of weeks until we see a codex which throws a lot of changes at us, but if we were sticking with what we have... I think I would be experimenting in being more aggressive with my unit selection and positioning to put my opponents in tougher positions? I dunno, maybe multiple smaller threatening units of Immortals?
This is a pretty good summary of the issues Necrons face right now. RP is a pretty good mechanic in and of itself, but the units affected by it can't really make the most of it. I love my metal men, but they're going to stay on the shelf until either our killy units get more durable, or our durable units get more killy. Until then, I'm sticking to AoS.
Good observations.
I've found out that the Veil of Darkness has made a big difference in my games and that's only one relic. Imagine when the codex comes out.
The ability to move a slow unit into a better position is amazing. This combined with the Deceiver and you can put pressure on your opponent from multiple units on turn 1.
Although this becomes a lot more difficult if you face someone who masters board control. Someone who shuts down a lot of the table first with scouting units and then deep striking units.
This is really the key in 40k 8th. I just wish Necrons had a unit that can scout.
Is that a winning strategy? Rhetorical question, warrior blobs are toothless, and supporting them to make them tougher is just throwing good points after bad. Our best lists don't feel anything like our lists from other editions.
Well I dont know about previous editions, ive only started playing Necrons about a month ago. And yes, I might be biased as Szeras is my favourite HQ.
But I disagree with Warriors being toothless. In rapidfire range, they can put the hurt on pretty much anything that isnt T8+.
40 S4 ap-1 shots, hitting on 2+ cause of Szeras isnt something your opponent can ignore.
But they do need to be the distraction for something else. An approaching Nightbringer Shard, an Overlord dropping in with Tesla Immortals/warsytche Lychguard etc.
Regardless, next match im going to try it. Szeras with 2x 20 Warriors, thrown forward thanks to the Deceiver. Meanwhile, the Nightbringer rushes forward and an Overlord Veils in a squad of 10 Tesla Immortals.
That might be a nasty surprise for you opponent.
Just be aware of scouting units that can shut down your gameplan completely. You will need to alternate deployment with Grand illusioned units and scouting units.
Also I would use Gauss Immortals instead of tesla since they come into rapid fire range.
Good luck and I'd very much like to hear how the game went.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/01/31 13:23:00
2018/01/31 13:32:31
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
FWIW there was a hint dropped that our mobility will be increasing, and units that can disappear and reappear at will is absolutely in the fluff for our army. Scarabs or Wraiths getting some scouting ability would be welcome too I guess?
I've definitely found the ability to redeploy at will with Veil of Darkness is not only useful in itself but forces your opponent to adapt to the possibility. If we start to see units like the monoliths or strategems being able to beam units around the table I think that would be very welcome, especially in objective based games.
If we're forcing enemies to target EITHER tough objective campers OR actually-threatening offensive units that can be repositioned to strike at our opponents... I think that is when something like RP starts to shine. What does your opponent deal with to ensure they wipe it out and it doesn't return?!
2018/01/31 13:43:07
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
I've seen two youtubers now saying once the Codex drops everybody's going to want Lords in their army.
I wonder what they know that we don't... I can only assume they'll be able to either boost the survivability of your infantry or confer more aggressive buffs. At the moment they're the cheapest unit that can take a Res Orb so it could be that if they've changed how the Orb works.
2018/02/01 14:12:16
Subject: Re: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
dapperbandit wrote: I've seen two youtubers now saying once the Codex drops everybody's going to want Lords in their army.
I wonder what they know that we don't... I can only assume they'll be able to either boost the survivability of your infantry or confer more aggressive buffs. At the moment they're the cheapest unit that can take a Res Orb so it could be that if they've changed how the Orb works.
They could work for GW and know someone that prints Codexs thus have a reliable but secret source to everything in regards to rules.
I think the Orb is going to be dropping at least 50% in points to look more "attractive" and "apparently" Lord's will exchange their "re-rolling morale " to "auto-pass" morale. I can't say where I got this info from as I don't want them to get in trouble but that's the rumours that spread during an event I was at this past weekend with the person showing me where the information comes from.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, just so people know, the reason we didn't get much updates in Chapter Approved is because Codex Necrons is going to be a full 180 of Index Necrons so the only way to "implement" this affect was to wait for a Codex release as Chapter Approved would have ruined the surprises and any that is changing will conflict with our Index enteries.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/01 14:16:36
Well its close enough that print copies and such will be lurking out there in the wild and those in the know have more safety in revealing little bits of info and such without it quickly linking back to them.
That said I suspect we are still a bit away from stock heading out to anything but distributors (and I don't know if they'd buy up stock this early unless the launch is next week); so chances are we'll still have a bit of a wait before we get a glut of rumours enough to cross check them with each other.
dapperbandit wrote: I've seen two youtubers now saying once the Codex drops everybody's going to want Lords in their army.
I wonder what they know that we don't... I can only assume they'll be able to either boost the survivability of your infantry or confer more aggressive buffs. At the moment they're the cheapest unit that can take a Res Orb so it could be that if they've changed how the Orb works.
They could work for GW and know someone that prints Codexs thus have a reliable but secret source to everything in regards to rules.
I think the Orb is going to be dropping at least 50% in points to look more "attractive" and "apparently" Lord's will exchange their "re-rolling morale " to "auto-pass" morale. I can't say where I got this info from as I don't want them to get in trouble but that's the rumours that spread during an event I was at this past weekend with the person showing me where the information comes from.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Also, just so people know, the reason we didn't get much updates in Chapter Approved is because Codex Necrons is going to be a full 180 of Index Necrons so the only way to "implement" this affect was to wait for a Codex release as Chapter Approved would have ruined the surprises and any that is changing will conflict with our Index enteries.
Hmm, Lords providing an auto-pass morale could be quite a big deal, especially when it comes to managing an economy of Command Points. If you don't have to burn 2CP to keep that Warrior blob on the table so they can reanimate then that's two more CP you can be using on re-rolls or new strategems
2018/02/01 14:43:09
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Hmm, Lords providing an auto-pass morale could be quite a big deal, especially when it comes to managing an economy of Command Points. If you don't have to burn 2CP to keep that Warrior blob on the table so they can reanimate then that's two more CP you can be using on re-rolls or new strategems
I like the idea of having a Lord with 2 units of warriors "daisy" changing to grab as many objectives as possible. Plus, if he stops Morale from being an issue then I can only imagine how tough and resilient a blob of warriors will be when auto passing morale and using a res orb to get them up to greater numbers.
Alas, they are just rumours though and while the sources I was shown were pretty reliable and consistent with other Codex rumours from other armies. I will take everything I was told with a pinch of salt so I don't get disappointed if the Codex is different to what I was told it will be.
I got told a gakk load of rumours at the weekend but I'm keeping those to myself just incase someone from GW tries to "shut me up". It is safe to say that Codex Necrons is a complete revamp from the Index and everyone on the forum will be super happy with the Codex if everything I was shown is true.
We won't be "Uber" competitive but we will give a lot of armies a hard time which is in line with out fluff.
Doctoralex wrote: -Tomb blades are getting 14! Upgrade options, one of them being -1 to hit. The -1 to hit sound reasonable, 14 upgrade options does not.
I saw these comments too, but read this as Tomb Blades will be 14 points rather than they're getting 14 upgrade options? Means they're a decent bit cheaper if so! 14 different upgrades seems bonkers.
2018/02/01 15:21:52
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
Hmm, Lords providing an auto-pass morale could be quite a big deal, especially when it comes to managing an economy of Command Points. If you don't have to burn 2CP to keep that Warrior blob on the table so they can reanimate then that's two more CP you can be using on re-rolls or new strategems
I like the idea of having a Lord with 2 units of warriors "daisy" changing to grab as many objectives as possible. Plus, if he stops Morale from being an issue then I can only imagine how tough and resilient a blob of warriors will be when auto passing morale and using a res orb to get them up to greater numbers.
Alas, they are just rumours though and while the sources I was shown were pretty reliable and consistent with other Codex rumours from other armies. I will take everything I was told with a pinch of salt so I don't get disappointed if the Codex is different to what I was told it will be.
I got told a gakk load of rumours at the weekend but I'm keeping those to myself just incase someone from GW tries to "shut me up". It is safe to say that Codex Necrons is a complete revamp from the Index and everyone on the forum will be super happy with the Codex if everything I was shown is true.
We won't be "Uber" competitive but we will give a lot of armies a hard time which is in line with out fluff.
Just 1 question: does RP remain the same? I heard it might get changed to a boring FnP save....
2018/02/01 15:21:55
Subject: Necron 8th Tactica - Unit grading in OP / NEW new FAQ discussion p.97
12,000 
~4100
~1660
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
