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Those rules sound awesome. Can't wait to start building lists with these new additions.

All rules seem to benifit different models and play styles. So I'm very hopefull of the rest of the codex. I don't think we need the major rule/point adjustment that some seem to want.

I am more than happy to remain in the middle tier OPness and not have another few years of people complaining "Fcking op Necrons."

Mephrit seems legitly awesome. That plus tesla weapons, oh heck yes. Now you really want to rethink charging, plus -1ap to everything will be awesome even if you have to get within half distance.

Heck, destroyer squads with a heavy destroyer and destroyer lord will be crazy good. Str 9, reroll 1's to hit and wound, - 4 or -5 Ap? On top of regular gauss cannons? That's definitely scarry.

I have a feeling some are overlooking the wording of the Novokh Dynastic Code like I did at first:

You can re-roll failed hit rolls in the Fight phase for units with this code if they charged, were charged, or performed a Heroic Intervention this turn.

Basically you'll only get this in the first turn of a combat. The second and later turns you won't get the re-rolls since they did not charge, were not charged or did not perform a Heroic Intervention that turn.

If you are going after the right targets, you shouldn't be in combat for more than a round or two.

What I’m most curious about is if Reanimation Protocols has changed. Personally I think the design that if all the models die, nobody gets to roll anything is awful. It essentially forces the player to take max size units, and forces the enemy to focus fire units until they are finished. Likewise, the variance has too big of an effect. Sometimes at above average rolls a unit dies entirely, and sometimes when a unit should die, it doesn’t, and then with bonuses and gems half or more get back.

It’d be better if they made it a flat 5++ FNP, and the thematic Necron resurrections happened with stratagems and relics and special abilities instead.

 Ghaz wrote:
I have a feeling some are overlooking the wording of the Novokh Dynastic Code like I did at first:

Don't think anyone has read that code wrong, the wording is very clear.

This is 8th Ed. so 90% of combats end in one turn anyway.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:
Lychguard are only 19 points, so even a 1 point reduction is noticeable. Their staline is certainly a bargain at 18, S5/T5 2 wounds 2 attacks.

Wargear is the overpriced part, specifically our shields are in for a 10 point reduction (to match storm shields) so the sword and board variety will be 11 points cheaper. Scythe are a powerfist analog, so I think their points are ok, and they will be much better with the new rules.

Wait, what? Where did this come from?
Also, do you mean that the shields are 5 points each, or 10 points each?

And yeah, our equipment is pretty overpriced. I mean, I played against GK last night, and I couldn't do anything because even though we were both at 1k points, he somehow had disproportionately more short to medium ranged firepower.
Some of which was multi-damage.

The point I was trying to get to is a 1 point reduction on Lychguard and Praetorians is probably coupled with a wargear pricedrop, so we shouldn't freak out too much about it only being a 1 point reduction.

Storm Shields are 5pts per model in the SM codex, as dispersion shields are functionally stormshields, they will drop to 5 points in the Necron codex. That's an 11 point reduction on a 37 point model, and thus equipped can go toe to toe with much more expensive thunder hammer stormshield equipped terminators and expect to win. Hell they could rumble one on one with certain version of custodes and have a decent chance of winning. The thing I'm really hoping for is we could mix weapon types, but that's probably not going to happen.

Praetorians are probably in for a much more modest reduction in points, but they were arguably in a much better place to begin with. If they lose 1 point off of the model and 2 off of the rod of covenant they will still be 32 points per model.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MinscS2 wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
I have a feeling some are overlooking the wording of the Novokh Dynastic Code like I did at first:

Don't think anyone has read that code wrong, the wording is very clear.

This is 8th Ed. so 90% of combats end in one turn anyway.

Yup, because CC is almost never two units duking it out and is instead units that are good in CC beating up units that aren't, so unless they are trying to tarpit they will bail the next round (if they survive).

Mephrit adds very little damage to Tesla, which is a shame because I built all of my Immortals with carbines back in 5th.

Assuming you drop these units forward with a VoD-carrying Necron Lord, or drop them in range via other means:

Against T4, Warriors deal more damage; against T5 and higher, Immortals deal more damage. However the damage difference against T5+ is one whole wound, for max-sized units of Warriors and Immortals.

Considering you have to be at half range to benefit, Gauss will provide more target flexibility for Mephrit, than Tesla.

--

Deathmarks do not benefit much at all, though the Necron Lord's aura gets them a near-guaranteed mortal wound per 10 shots. Deathmarks are okay, but they need something from the codex to make them worthwhile compared to other options.

--

Heavier weapons offer some interesting choices with Mephrit. For brevity I looked at Heavy Destroyers versus melta Sentry Pylons. Keeping mind that points and profile changes could happen with Destroyers:

At the moment, 3 Heavy Destroyers cost more than one melta Pylon, and deal about 2 wounds less against T5-T8 targets. The Heavy Destroyers can split up their damage while the Pylon cannot, but the Pylon can immediately enter Solar Fury range via deep strike.

In the Heavy Destroyer's favor, they are able to receive buffs from Destroyer Lords, Overlords and Lords. You can consider these to be effective cost increases but in many cases you'll already have those HQs to fill other roles. Additionally, Destroyers are more likely to receive support from Warlord Traits and Stratagems than FW units are.

Mephrit may not "come into play much" on tesla, but as an added bonus I like it. Plus if someone charges your tesla equipped guys that can make a difference since that's garunteed range for the -1ap. I am not looking at it from a pure mathhammer in a vacuum situation, I am looking at it from a faction wide bonus. Since my force always take tesla when it can (tesla rocks) that's where my mind went.

I mean, think of an obelisk. Drops in 12" away, shoots 20 shots at 3+ and has str 7 ap-1. Assuming this applys to everything like eldar traits and not specifics like space marine tactics.

I wouldn't bet on shields coming all the way down to 5pts. Terminators already have a baked in 5+ inv that they pay for in base cost. The 5pts is to upgrade a 5+ to a 3+. I'm guessing that we'll see 8-10 points for ours.

Drakmord wrote:
Mephrit adds very little damage to Tesla, which is a shame because I built all of my Immortals with carbines back in 5th.

Assuming you drop these units forward with a VoD-carrying Necron Lord, or drop them in range via other means:

Against T4, Warriors deal more damage; against T5 and higher, Immortals deal more damage. However the damage difference against T5+ is one whole wound, for max-sized units of Warriors and Immortals.

Considering you have to be at half range to benefit, Gauss will provide more target flexibility for Mephrit, than Tesla.

--

Deathmarks do not benefit much at all, though the Necron Lord's aura gets them a near-guaranteed mortal wound per 10 shots. Deathmarks are okay, but they need something from the codex to make them worthwhile compared to other options.

--

Heavier weapons offer some interesting choices with Mephrit. For brevity I looked at Heavy Destroyers versus melta Sentry Pylons. Keeping mind that points and profile changes could happen with Destroyers:

At the moment, 3 Heavy Destroyers cost more than one melta Pylon, and deal about 2 wounds less against T5-T8 targets. The Heavy Destroyers can split up their damage while the Pylon cannot, but the Pylon can immediately enter Solar Fury range via deep strike.

In the Heavy Destroyer's favor, they are able to receive buffs from Destroyer Lords, Overlords and Lords. You can consider these to be effective cost increases but in many cases you'll already have those HQs to fill other roles. Additionally, Destroyers are more likely to receive support from Warlord Traits and Stratagems than FW units are.

Not sure on the math on that, so i did the below:

w/ mephrit and MWBD
Tesla: (1/3 * 2/3 * 1/2 * 3) + (1/2 * 2/3 * 1/2) * 2 = .98 wounds per immortal
Gauss: 5/6 * 2/3 * 5/6 * 2 = .92 wounds per immortal

w/ mephrit
Tesla: (1/6 * 2/3 * 1/2 * 3) + (1/2 * 2/3 * 1/2) * 2 = .64 wounds per immortal
Gauss: 2/3 * 2/3 * 5/6 * 2 = .74 wounds per immortal

wo/ mephrit w/MWBD
Tesla: (1/3 * 2/3 * 1/3 * 3) + (1/2 * 2/3 * 1/3) * 2 = .66 wounds per immortal
Gauss: 5/6 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 2 = .74 wounds per immortal

wo/ mephrit and MWBD
Tesla: (1/6 * 2/3 * 1/3 * 3) + (1/2 * 2/3 * 1/3) * 2 = .44 wounds per immortal
Gauss: 2/3 * 2/3 * 2/3 * 2 = .6 wounds per immortal

Using the above, we can see against MEQ both with and without MWBD Tesla benefits more from Mephrit than gauss does. The reason for that is going from a 0 to a -1 is a bigger deal than going from a -2 to a -3. This will be especially noticeable when targeting units with poor armor saves or invuls. So yeah Mephrit should absolutely be using Tesla on their immortals, there are only a few cases where Gauss is better, and even then they are comparable, but when tesla is better it's way better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
I wouldn't bet on shields coming all the way down to 5pts. Terminators already have a baked in 5+ inv that they pay for in base cost. The 5pts is to upgrade a 5+ to a 3+. I'm guessing that we'll see 8-10 points for ours.

But vets can take stormshields and still only pay 5 points for them. Same with deathwatch and wulfen.

Drakmord wrote:
Mephrit adds very little damage to Tesla, which is a shame because I built all of my Immortals with carbines back in 5th.

Assuming you drop these units forward with a VoD-carrying Necron Lord, or drop them in range via other means:

Against T4, Warriors deal more damage; against T5 and higher, Immortals deal more damage. However the damage difference against T5+ is one whole wound, for max-sized units of Warriors and Immortals.

Considering you have to be at half range to benefit, Gauss will provide more target flexibility for Mephrit, than Tesla.

--

Deathmarks do not benefit much at all, though the Necron Lord's aura gets them a near-guaranteed mortal wound per 10 shots. Deathmarks are okay, but they need something from the codex to make them worthwhile compared to other options.

--

Heavier weapons offer some interesting choices with Mephrit. For brevity I looked at Heavy Destroyers versus melta Sentry Pylons. Keeping mind that points and profile changes could happen with Destroyers:

At the moment, 3 Heavy Destroyers cost more than one melta Pylon, and deal about 2 wounds less against T5-T8 targets. The Heavy Destroyers can split up their damage while the Pylon cannot, but the Pylon can immediately enter Solar Fury range via deep strike.

In the Heavy Destroyer's favor, they are able to receive buffs from Destroyer Lords, Overlords and Lords. You can consider these to be effective cost increases but in many cases you'll already have those HQs to fill other roles. Additionally, Destroyers are more likely to receive support from Warlord Traits and Stratagems than FW units are.

I'm not sure what you're doing here. Like, yeah, a full squad of Warriors will typically do more damage than a full squad of Immortals, absent MWBD, because a squad of Warriors is more expensive and has more guys in it. That's not telling you much about Tesla vs Gauss. The same analysis yields that, with Mephrit, Warriors do more damage than Gauss Immortals to T4 unless you're dealing with 2+ saves in cover. That said, MWBD obviously synergizes extremely well with Tesla, and Tesla Immortals with MWBD and Mephrit will out-perform Gauss Immortals at half range against anything worse than a 2+ save. I don't know what you mean when you talk about "target flexibility" -- surely a huge advantage of Tesla is that it works really well at long range and then is still considerably buffed by Mephrit closer in, and is much better against a wide variety of targets.

It's just generally going to be true that weapons without much AP benefit much more from Mephrit than weapons with good AP. If you're shooting your AP-3 gun at a 3+ save, Mephrit is going to get you a 20% increase in expected damage, unless of course they've got a 6++ or better in which case it doesn't help you at all. If you're shooting an AP0 gun at a 3+ save, Mephrit is worth a 50% increase in expected damage, unless they've also got a 3++. Mephrit is almost useless for Heavy Destroyers -- it only matters at all against 2+ saves, and even then is only a 20% buff. Granted, none of the codes do that much for Heavy Destroyers -- you're choosing between advancing and shooting at -1 or advancing 6".

But that's why the units that synergize best with Mephrit are almost all going to be fast things with Tesla. There's a role for backfield Tesla Immortals, who wouldn't benefit much, but you're basically always going to want Tomb Blades, Night and even Doom Scythes, and Annihilation Barges to be Mephrit. This is especially true for the big things, since S7 AP0 is a pretty weird profile that you have a hard time finding good targets for.

 Sasori wrote:
I like the Dynasty codes a lot.

I'm still quite concerned about the points drops we are seeing. Lychguard only dropping one point is not nearly good enough, unless they have some major statline changes.

It all depends on gear, if warscythes drop OR if they finally don't suck then it makes a big difference. I think the warscythe shoot work closer to fulgerite priests in admech and do d3 wounds with potential for d3 mortal wounds on a 6 to wound instead. It's idiotic that they don't carve through armor and invulns like they shhould.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mephrit will make Gauss blasters insane. I can't believe folks are discussing tesla lol.

A guass blaster becomes ap -3 and at s5 that makes it incredibly similar to none overchaged plasma against a multitude of targets. Add in a necron lord nearby and these things will erase vehicles and infantry a like. If you want tesla you should be taking it as destructors on barges and scythes. Much better set up for it there since then it is wounding little gribllies on 2's not 3's and both units have fly. Very limited things have access to blasters and I personally won't waste immortals and DEFINITELY not tomb blades on rubbish tesla.

On that note, tomb blades are going to be sick from mephrit. 4 strength 5 ap -3 shots each on a t5 flying platform. There is no really good solution to silencing these things. Best bet is getting in close, deleting a target and assaulting another since you can always leave next turn an fire anyway.

EDIT : BTW part of my problem with telsa is it is way to much a gimmick. MANY things aply a -1 this edition and several from multiple areas. I know multpiple ways are involving the 12" band we want them in but several don't and further more I'd rather have a gun that in a pinch still has ap -2 rather then 0...

Mobile is determined to stop me from posting so I'll try quick reply.

Immortals vs Warriors was done to see how much more damage you would be getting for the difference in cost, for your Troop slot, under Solar Fury; not just which one does more. As all of this is potentially pointless without the full picture (for all I know Immortals could get a shoot twice stratagem, in which case Hell yes Tesla) it is important to identify where we can save points without compromising effectiveness.

Gauss is more tactically flexible than Tesla, on Immortals, because AP-2 to -3 is more likely to be the difference between your target getting a save, and not getting one At All. If all I ever expect to shoot are Orks and Kroot, I would favor Tesla, or if I was putting Immortals into Nihilakh or Nephrekh or Sautekh instead, where they receive rerolls or increased mobility. Or if they get that hypothetical doubletap stratagem!

Likewise I compared our heavy support options which were most capable of entering Solar Fury range. I could have done the Monolith too but the difference in cost there is more pronounced. Aside from multitudinous ways of getting cover, Necrons lack effective means with which to deal with high value targets like Knights or Mortarion. If we only needed masses of Warriors or Tomb Blades, this thread would be dead because we had solved the faction, and not because we have all been waiting months for our codex to provide solutions to our various problems.

 Grimgold wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:
Lychguard are only 19 points, so even a 1 point reduction is noticeable. Their staline is certainly a bargain at 18, S5/T5 2 wounds 2 attacks.

Wargear is the overpriced part, specifically our shields are in for a 10 point reduction (to match storm shields) so the sword and board variety will be 11 points cheaper. Scythe are a powerfist analog, so I think their points are ok, and they will be much better with the new rules.

Wait, what? Where did this come from?
Also, do you mean that the shields are 5 points each, or 10 points each?

And yeah, our equipment is pretty overpriced. I mean, I played against GK last night, and I couldn't do anything because even though we were both at 1k points, he somehow had disproportionately more short to medium ranged firepower.
Some of which was multi-damage.

The point I was trying to get to is a 1 point reduction on Lychguard and Praetorians is probably coupled with a wargear pricedrop, so we shouldn't freak out too much about it only being a 1 point reduction.

Storm Shields are 5pts per model in the SM codex, as dispersion shields are functionally stormshields, they will drop to 5 points in the Necron codex. That's an 11 point reduction on a 37 point model, and thus equipped can go toe to toe with much more expensive thunder hammer stormshield equipped terminators and expect to win. Hell they could rumble one on one with certain version of custodes and have a decent chance of winning. The thing I'm really hoping for is we could mix weapon types, but that's probably not going to happen.

Praetorians are probably in for a much more modest reduction in points, but they were arguably in a much better place to begin with. If they lose 1 point off of the model and 2 off of the rod of covenant they will still be 32 points per model.

Wow, a 3++ is only 5 points now? That's pretty nuts.
The fact that necrons pay 3x for it in the index is ridiculous. I swear whoever wrote the index either hates or doesn't understand necrons, because everything they have is overpriced atm.

Drakmord wrote:
Mobile is determined to stop me from posting so I'll try quick reply.

Immortals vs Warriors was done to see how much more damage you would be getting for the difference in cost, for your Troop slot, under Solar Fury; not just which one does more. As all of this is potentially pointless without the full picture (for all I know Immortals could get a shoot twice stratagem, in which case Hell yes Tesla) it is important to identify where we can save points without compromising effectiveness.

But you didn't account for the difference in cost. That was my point. It's not true that Warriors are always more efficient than Tesla Immortals against T4, only that they always do more total damage if you have max squads of each. You didn't seem to be saying anything about where you "can save points without compromising effectiveness"; you're just pointing out that if you spend more you get more. Now, there are absolutely reasons to favor the big unit of Warriors even if it's less efficient against many targets -- if you're using a VoD you can only bring one unit and so you have reason to bring the most expensive unit even if it's not the most efficient unit.

Gauss is more tactically flexible than Tesla, on Immortals, because AP-2 to -3 is more likely to be the difference between your target getting a save, and not getting one At All. If all I ever expect to shoot are Orks and Kroot, I would favor Tesla, or if I was putting Immortals into Nihilakh or Nephrekh or Sautekh instead, where they receive rerolls or increased mobility. Or if they get that hypothetical doubletap stratagem!

This is confused. You shouldn't care very much about the difference between your target getting a save and not getting one. That's a lot less important than the difference between your target getting a 4+ and your target getting a 5+. See Grimgold's math above where he shows that Mephrit brings Tesla Immortals almost up to the level of Gauss Immortals against T4 3+ at half range. Basically: Mephrit is clearly a reason to bring more Tesla, not less. If you were already going to VoD a bunch of Warriors or Gauss Immortals to shoot MEQs, you probably won't stop, but it is a relatively less appealing tactic for Mephrit than with other codes, and certainly if you were using Gauss Immortals you should strongly consider switching to Tesla if using Mephrit.

Likewise I compared our heavy support options which were most capable of entering Solar Fury range. I could have done the Monolith too but the difference in cost there is more pronounced. Aside from multitudinous ways of getting cover, Necrons lack effective means with which to deal with high value targets like Knights or Mortarion. If we only needed masses of Warriors or Tomb Blades, this thread would be dead because we had solved the faction, and not because we have all been waiting months for our codex to provide solutions to our various problems.

But you're still ignoring that those heavy support options barely benefit from Solar Fury. It makes absolutely no sense to be talking about how Solar Fury helps your Heavy Destroyers or melta Sentry Pylons against Knights and Mortarion. It does literally nothing for those models against Knights and Mortarion. It would do nothing for them even if they didn't have invuln saves, because they only have 3+ armor and so going from AP-4 to AP-5 would be overkill. You "could have done the Monolith" but if you really had you would have noticed that Mephrit again does literally nothing for the Monolith against Knights and Mortarion, because Knights have a 5++ and Mortarion has a 4++, and the Monolith already has AP-2. Mephrit is helping most Necron anti-tank against... Land Raiders, and not much else.

Certainly, Necrons lack good anti-tank -- that's the main reason I haven't played them much in 8th. Hopefully the codex will help with that. But it's important to realize that Mephrit doesn't actually make your anti-tank units much better. Necron anti-tank already tends to be AP-4 and a lot of the scariest big things have invulnerable saves anyway. Where it really shines is instead on low AP weapons, because it makes them much, much better against things with decent saves. Tesla stands out as the thing that benefits most, especially S7 Tesla Destructors, but the standard AP-1 Gauss weapons get a lot out of it too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Red Corsair wrote:

EDIT : BTW part of my problem with telsa is it is way to much a gimmick. MANY things aply a -1 this edition and several from multiple areas. I know multpiple ways are involving the 12" band we want them in but several don't and further more I'd rather have a gun that in a pinch still has ap -2 rather then 0...

I mean, the reason you take Tesla is that it's much, much better outside of 12", where -- as you note -- most of those penalties apply. Even without the possibility of multiple hits, you get twice as many shots such that it's always at least as good against 3+ saves. Yeah, you'd take Gauss blasters if you were always going to be within 12" of your target and never using MWBD. I don't think anyone denies that. My thinking -- and I assume what other people who are excited about what Mephrit means for Tesla are thinking -- is that you get all of the traditional advantages of Tesla beyond 12" and then you make up a lot of the gap between it and Gauss inside 12". Plus there are some Tesla weapons that don't have Gauss equivalents and are on fast platforms, and they suddenly get a big buff at half range.

But, sure, if you're expecting that your Tomb Blades will just always be within 12" of what you want to shoot, then take blasters. While Mephrit doesn't make this relatively more appealing compared to carbines -- because the carbine build benefits even more inside 12" -- it may make it absolutely more appealing compared to everything else in the codex. Personally, I feel like that'll often be hard to do. That's only a move-and-shoot range of 26". I feel like Tesla keeps them much more effective on turn 1, and Mephrit adds a lot of punch if they do happen to get closer later on.

Yea I'm a bit confused....are Mephrit Tesla Immortals better anti-MEQ than Gauss Blasters?

And next to that, I think the Mephrit trait is best used with Warrior Blobs, thrown forward with Grand Illusion or Tomb World deployment (if it gets improved....)

Doctoralex wrote:
Yea I'm a bit confused....are Mephrit Tesla Immortals better anti-MEQ than Gauss Blasters?

And next to that, I think the Mephrit trait is best used with Warrior Blobs, thrown forward with Grand Illusion or Tomb World deployment (if it gets improved....)

TL: DR - It's complicated and depends on a few factors, but for immortals most necrons should take gauss Mephrit should probably take tesla.

If they both have My will be done and the Mephrit bonus, then yes Tesla is better at killing MEQ, no qualifiers. Without MWBD there are only certain cases where gauss edges out Tesla, Within 12" targets don't have invuls, and have an armor save of 2+ 3+ or4+. If you are facing a minus to hit, Gauss will probably be better.

Doctoralex wrote:
Yea I'm a bit confused....are Mephrit Tesla Immortals better anti-MEQ than Gauss Blasters?
And next to that, I think the Mephrit trait is best used with Warrior Blobs, thrown forward with Grand Illusion or Tomb World deployment (if it gets improved....)

Mephrit MWBD Tesla Immortals inflict more wounds on 3+ saves than Mephrit MWBD Gauss Immortals, even inside 12" (by 35%).

Mephrit Tesla Immortals are very slightly better than non-Mephrit Gauss Immortals (12.5%).

But Mephrit Gauss Immortals edge out Mephrit Tesla Immortals if MWBD isn't in play (11%).

You can see how this is a significant improvement for Tesla -- right now, Gauss is 33% better without MWBD and still 11% better with. All inside 12" of course; outside 12" there's not really a contest.

Ahh 40k here is a hobby than can bring French, Russians, Germans and Americans together.

 Grimgold wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
I wouldn't bet on shields coming all the way down to 5pts. Terminators already have a baked in 5+ inv that they pay for in base cost. The 5pts is to upgrade a 5+ to a 3+. I'm guessing that we'll see 8-10 points for ours.

But vets can take stormshields and still only pay 5 points for them. Same with deathwatch and wulfen.

Vets and deathwatch are single wound models, you don't get as much millage out of the save on them. That's why it's 15pts for characters who are sitting at 4-6 wounds. Wulfen are really the odd duck as a two wound model that still only pays 5. My guess is there are a few points baked in the base model cost for the wulfen claws they give up that accounts for a bit of a discount, but aside from that, I don't have a good answer. Everything else I'm aware of fits the same point philosophy. In the end, I think if you are expecting a 3++ invuln for 5 points on those guys, you are setting yourself up for disappointment.

Eldar pay 6 points for Forceshields on their Wraithblades.
That's 6 points for a 4++ on a T6 W3 3+ model.

I'd expect Lychguard (assuming they stay T5 W2 3+) to pay at most 5 points for a 4++, but even a 3++ for 5 points doesn't feel like a stretch when compared to Wraithblades.

Terminators can also mix weapon types, lychguard can't, so it's a bit better for terminators on that front. As for two wounds vs one wound, one of the big complaints for terminators right now (and primaris marines) is that multi wound weapons are so common, so having two wounds is a little less awesome than it should be.

Guess we'll have to wait for more leaks to find out, though I'd be willing to pay a bit more if they gave us back 5th ed dispersion shields.

 Grimgold wrote:

Doctoralex wrote:
Yea I'm a bit confused....are Mephrit Tesla Immortals better anti-MEQ than Gauss Blasters?

And next to that, I think the Mephrit trait is best used with Warrior Blobs, thrown forward with Grand Illusion or Tomb World deployment (if it gets improved....)

TL: DR - It's complicated and depends on a few factors, but for immortals most necrons should take gauss Mephrit should probably take tesla.

If they both have My will be done and the Mephrit bonus, then yes Tesla is better at killing MEQ, no qualifiers. Without MWBD there are only certain cases where gauss edges out Tesla, Within 12" targets don't have invuls, and have an armor save of 2+ 3+ or4+. If you are facing a minus to hit, Gauss will probably be better.

Except people here are willfully ignoring other armies bonuses as well. I play a ton of Admech that like deepstriking in with lucius. That trait ignores an ap of -1, kind of like one of the better tau traits that was just released. Or you know, just traditional cover. Telsa is one of those weapons that looks amazing on paper until you start playing. I am not saying it is bad by any means, but gaus blasters are so far ahead it isn't even funny. For the points if your looking at anti horde your still better off taking warriors then tesla immortals, thats more my issue. Your wasting points and potential when you put tesla on immortals. A normal flayer and a carbine wounds GEQ on a 3, so your just paying through the nose for shots over AP.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MinscS2 wrote:
Eldar pay 6 points for Forceshields on their Wraithblades.
That's 6 points for a 4++ on a T6 W3 3+ model.

I'd expect Lychguard (assuming they stay T5 W2 3+) to pay at most 5 points for a 4++, but even a 3++ for 5 points doesn't feel like a stretch when compared to Wraithblades.

Hopefully they pay more but the damn shields do what they used to and bounce mortal wounds back.

Well, we'll see soon enough whatever it is. I know what I'll be happy with, and what I'll be disappointed with. Consistency with points has never been one of GW's strong points, so nothing is likely to shock me.

 Red Corsair wrote:


Except people here are willfully ignoring other armies bonuses as well. I play a ton of Admech that like deepstriking in with lucius. That trait ignores an ap of -1, kind of like one of the better tau traits that was just released. Or you know, just traditional cover. Telsa is one of those weapons that looks amazing on paper until you start playing. I am not saying it is bad by any means, but gaus blasters are so far ahead it isn't even funny. For the points if your looking at anti horde your still better off taking warriors then tesla immortals, thats more my issue. Your wasting points and potential when you put tesla on immortals. A normal flayer and a carbine wounds GEQ on a 3, so your just paying through the nose for shots over AP.

But flayers aren't str 5, blasters are, and lucius is literally the only faction that ignores AP -1, which seems a tad specific to plan around, especially since a 4+ save is safely within the area where the extra shots from tesla will usually matter more. -1 to hit is much more common, which I mentioned, but since mephrit only works within 12", alpha legion and raven guard traits aren't that helpful so only venomthropes and abilities like aversion will really cramp your style.

Also at anything beyond 12" tesla is flat better against anything that is not TEQ. though you tend to run into problems with alpha legion and raven guard.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Hopefully they pay more but the damn shields do what they used to and bounce mortal wounds back.

That would sure be nice, we are short on ways to generate mortal wounds, and that's a fun way to do it that doesn't seem overpowered.

It will be interesting to see the dynasty specific warlord traits and relics. As it stands right now, I'll probably play my army with the -1 ap trait. It seems like something that will be useful while not forcing you into a specific build. The Nihilakh trait doesn't appeal to me. I already have Dark Angels, I don't want my Necrons to play like a lesser version of that. For it to work, you would basically need to spam Annihilation Barges and other stationary guns. I prefer to have a more mobile Necron list. That's the cool part of the army IMO, you move forward with Wraiths, Destroyers and other mechanized forces to bring the mid-range dakka to the enemy. The melee one looks cool too, but I don't have the models to play that list.

Just as long as everyone remembers that we're discussing what could just be an image someone generated. Until we see confirmation from multiple sources/pics of the book itself I wouldn't put all your eggs in one basket.

It would be nice if Hyperphase swords were +1 STR as well. Would really make Sword and Board Lychguard and even Over/Lords much more attractive as an option.

im 100% certain this leak is real. it came from a youtube channel of a guy who proved to be a legitimate source in the past.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tPnV73nsjuo