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I think its a little fair, kinda sucks but its understandable. I usually try to pay for the space by buying any concessions that they have available or by buying a little something like a paint bottle or glue. They don't make any money unless you spend some money.

Jacksmiles wrote:


I realize that there's monthly payments, but I find it interesting that it would be preferable to have an equivalent amount of money spread out instead of all at once. I would have figured it would be fine either way, because whatever profit comes out of those sales is equal and still goes to the store, and at the end of the year it has the same amount from those sale. I've never run a business, though, so this line of conversation is just a learning experience for me.

Others have correctly pointed out that many stores do the bulk of their business in Nov-Dec and run at loss or near loss the rest of the time. This is more common with larger businesses (chains), who have proper financing; IOW they borrow money from a bank throughout the year to make a profit in the Christmas rush. Your FLGS probably can't operate on that model because their sales volume just isn't high enough - the bank assumes a lot of risk and if the FLGS has a bad December, they're out a lot of money - established chains of stores generally have a more reliable cash flow. This is a huge problem for small businesses (not just FLGSs) and often people have to use their homes as collateral (or mortgage them).

The store will do fine IF the sporadic customer spending is well spaced. Buying $200 of stuff in February and then $1000 of stuff in November leaves them really dry on funds through April to October. Ideally other customers are similarly erratic and they cover each other's dry spells. I imagine October is a crap month because everyone is waiting for Black Friday or Boxing Week to roll around.

What that $5 store credit does, for most customers, is provide a pseudo-discount on store product. Looked at from another angle, they're charging you $5 to play on league night, but also giving you $5 discount on your next item. The store gets a small steady cash-flow, and the customer can recoup that money in the form of a discount on store product. The store ends up a bit ahead (because they buy wholesale), but they've (hopefully) successfully instilled a pattern of frequently buying, because the store credit 'coupon' is floating around in people's wallets reminding them to buy something.

Jacksmiles wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Fine, I accept that I have went slightly overboard with my reaction there.

Does not change the fact that I am right, and under the assumption that you are an actual costumer that buys in the shop the 5$ fee that goes towards credits equals free anyway, because its money you would have spent in said shop anyway.

Also does not change the fact that if you do not buy in that shop, you are a non-costumer and letting you play without charging anything is a losing prospect and the only reason a shop should even consider it is if the attendance is SO LOW that the money earned by charging is negligible and they simply HAVE to generate bigger traffic to increase sales.


Putting it this way-I'm not wrong, I'm just an arsehole (yep, I fully admit I'm a jerk about 70% of the time. not gonna appologise for being one though, as I've found during my life that not being a jerk leads directly to people walking over me and expecting me to serve them as if I owe them anything.)

I guess this needs to be repeated again: Almost no one here is saying they don't buy in their lgs, the only discussion is about charging for table use. I buy things from my lgs, but would stop going if I had to pay to use their tables.

This is an interesting dilemma because the money paid in to using the tables in this one specific situation goes to store credit, but I still don't like that, either. I see it as securing business, but not earning it.

You're still not factually right, you just have an opinion.

I am not factually right?

You pay for the table, you get equal store credits, you later buy at the shop at SOME point-getting a "discount" equal to the amount of store credits you got from renting tables.

EFFECTIVLY, you spent the same amount of moeny overall as if you did not pay for the tables at all-ergo, as long you are a customer the tables are technically free.

Given you spent 260$ (not a lot in miniature world) once a year, you can play once a week without actually playing for tables still.

Jacksmiles wrote:[Okay, so it's better for the store owner to get $260 over the course of a year, that gets used to buy a starter force or equivalent, than it is to get a bulk purchase of over $500 or more? (Just throwing a number out there, that's about what I expect to spend when I start a new army). I've spent over $2,000 at my lgs in the past year, if they started charging for tables, yeah, that amount would change to 0 for the upcoming year pretty fast.

I fully agree. If my shop started charging me to play at his table I would shop else where but just play there. Yesterday is a perfect example. I some minis and paints yesterday at his store. It was over $150. Then I had a game. If I had to pay to play at his table, then I would have shopped else where I would have paid a lot less than the $150+ I spent. What is the percentages they get? 40% 50% or more off buying from GW or the distributor? Let's say 50% in this case. If my store wanted $5 from me or the $75 he got?

I get no discounts from him. I can if I go else where. Thing is, I choose to shop there and pay more so I can get games in. I am sure if we always had to pay the crowds would be less, and a lot of use would be shopping else where and getting discounts. This is how we are supporting this store. By buying and ordering from HIM and not going else where.

It is blowing me away people keep saying you need to pay. So a store rather have $5 from us instead of the hundreds or thousands that we spend in a year then? Yeah that makes great business sense.

Whats blowing me away is that some guys like you keep missing the point that had you been buying things from the shop like the 150$ you said you spent, than you do NOT pay for the table, because the table fee goes directly to store credit, therefor the only people actually PAYING anything, are those who play, yet never buy anything.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Whats blowing me away is that some guys like you keep missing the point that had you been buying things from the shop like the 150$ you said you spent, than you do NOT pay for the table, because the table fee goes directly to store credit, therefor the only people actually PAYING anything, are those who play, yet never buy anything.

I think if you look at it in the larger question in general, charging for tables, that's not as palatable as "table fees become store credit," that is very fair.

BoomWolf wrote:Whats blowing me away is that some guys like you keep missing the point that had you been buying things from the shop like the 150$ you said you spent, than you do NOT pay for the table, because the table fee goes directly to store credit, therefor the only people actually PAYING anything, are those who play, yet never buy anything.

What on earth are you talking about? We are buying from the shop. How come you keep saying we don't buy from the shop or "had you been buying things from the shop" We are spending money at the shop. Hundreds if not thousands of dollars. So why do you keep say we don't buy from the shop?

Davor wrote:

BoomWolf wrote:Whats blowing me away is that some guys like you keep missing the point that had you been buying things from the shop like the 150$ you said you spent, than you do NOT pay for the table, because the table fee goes directly to store credit, therefor the only people actually PAYING anything, are those who play, yet never buy anything.

What on earth are you talking about? We are buying from the shop. How come you keep saying we don't buy from the shop or "had you been buying things from the shop" We are spending money at the shop. Hundreds if not thousands of dollars. So why do you keep say we don't buy from the shop?

Then what's the problem? Sounds like your table space is paid for. Just think about it like handing over $5 here or there to get $5 discounts on the big purchases you make when you go in to buy stuff.

I really don't see the issue of paying for table space, especially if you get it back in store credit immediately. If you don't like it, then don't play there. No reason to act like it's some kind of personal insult.

 Xca|iber wrote:

Davor wrote:

BoomWolf wrote:Whats blowing me away is that some guys like you keep missing the point that had you been buying things from the shop like the 150$ you said you spent, than you do NOT pay for the table, because the table fee goes directly to store credit, therefor the only people actually PAYING anything, are those who play, yet never buy anything.

What on earth are you talking about? We are buying from the shop. How come you keep saying we don't buy from the shop or "had you been buying things from the shop" We are spending money at the shop. Hundreds if not thousands of dollars. So why do you keep say we don't buy from the shop?

Then what's the problem? Sounds like your table space is paid for. Just think about it like handing over $5 here or there to get $5 discounts on the big purchases you make when you go in to buy stuff.

I really don't see the issue of paying for table space, especially if you get it back in store credit immediately. If you don't like it, then don't play there. No reason to act like it's some kind of personal insult.

No one is acting insulted. We're just speaking matter-of-factly. I don't want to have to make a purchase in the future in order to get use out of that table fee. I'd rather keep the money now and spend it if/when I actually want to. I also wouldn't play at a place that charges for table use.

Than you are being awefully petty towards the FLGS owner, who is more than likely struggling to keep up the bills, by the fact you consider something that minor as a free-to-credit system (that practically means customers play free and non-customers pay a really small fee to begin with) to be an issue.

FLGS is not really a way to get rich. People with your mentaity is the reason so many of them break down and close, and then there isn't ANYWHERE to play (other than some guy's house, but that really suboptimal)

Well I think it depends on you local area mostly, in my country I've never heard about stores that charges for playing. We don't have a massive 40k community but in my city (120.000 inhabitants) the local store opened more than 15 years ago, and still there. Whitin 30-40 minutes by car there are at least three other stores like that one. They all charge players when they organize tournaments or special events, but not casual games, and we're all ok about that.

Customers are not a charity of local stores, if they think that stores don't offer a worthy service you can't blame them if they decide to have fun elsewhere or abandon the hobby.

I like 40k, I prefer the hobby part than gaming to be honest but I also play, and I don't think that paying 200+ dollars a year only for playing casual matches is worthy, if it happens I'll play somewhere else or something else. If you think it's a fair tax instead I can't blame you, it's your opinion and I respect it completely, but please respect other people ones.

If some place have a strong 40k community and a store provides a very cool gaming area with 10+ tables and amazing scenarios (but really good stuff I mean) then asking a small amount of money even for non competitive games could be fair. In my area there's nothing like that, stores mostly rely on card gamers so they typically have 3-5 tables for miniatures players. A lot of kids usually watch miniature games and maybe some of them would start the hobby, like I did many years ago. In a country like mine where only 20% of the people (at most) buy on line this is a good promotion for the store actually.

So, what's the alternative? If having shops running free gaming venues isn't viable, what do gamers in the US do? It seems that setting up a non-commercial club isn't as easy as in the UK, so is it back to playing in each others' houses? In that case, how do you get new gamers without the advertising of a shopfront? School clubs are a thing here, what about over there?

Or is the whole thing doomed in the long term? Should the guys at Wyrd, Privateer Press, Reaper, Old Glory et al make their money now and get out quick?

Around here, there's a venue that opened up a few years ago in an old snooker hall. It has a shop area, sells hot and cold snacks and charges £3 per person per day for a gaming table. Hours are usually 12 noon until 10pm. They're doing well, although they're in a smaller city roughly equidistant from Glasgow , Edinburgh, Perth and the rest of the Central Belt.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:
So, what's the alternative? If having shops running free gaming venues isn't viable, what do gamers in the US do?

They can play home or accept to pay a fee for casual games. I'm not blaming pepole that consider paying 5$/week (or whatever shops ask them to pay) fair and right, I mentioned before that I completely respect that. Especially if there are a lot of players in that area and beautiful scenarios provided by those stores. But if someone doesn't want to pay to play casual games can't be branded as someone that ruins stores business and cancel 40k from their area. I'd rather quit from playing in stores than paying 200ish$/year and continue playing in the store, and I'd like other people to respect it.

BoomWolf wrote:Than you are being awefully petty towards the FLGS owner, who is more than likely struggling to keep up the bills, by the fact you consider something that minor as a free-to-credit system (that practically means customers play free and non-customers pay a really small fee to begin with) to be an issue.

FLGS is not really a way to get rich. People with your mentaity is the reason so many of them break down and close, and then there isn't ANYWHERE to play (other than some guy's house, but that really suboptimal)

Who is being petty? We are supporting the store by making the purchases. We are helping them to pay the bills by not shopping else where were we could save money but we decide to pay full price so he has our business. So who is being petty here?

Again. I am spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars. So if I pay for a table, I have all right to shop else where to get a discount and play at his store because I paid the $5 fee. So again, this struggling store rather have my $5 instead of the hundreds or thousand I spend?

Also why are you calling people names now or labelling people for having a differing opinion than you? After all someone said this is not a charity. So why are we paying full price to a store when we can go else where? In this case the store is the charity. So why do we have to support this store then? Yes we are paying full price but yet we are the petty ones?

Remember rule number one. Be polite. We respect your opinion, please respect ours.

Davor wrote:


Again. I am spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars. So if I pay for a table, I have all right to shop else where to get a discount and play at his store because I paid the $5 fee. So again, this struggling store rather have my $5 instead of the hundreds or thousand I spend?

So let me see if I understand this... You clearly comprehend the concept of "buy where you play" - so I can only assume that you would frown upon a person using table space without buying anything from a store. We're agreed on this, yes?

Okay, so extrapolating from there, let's assume that there is some time period X after making a purchase of size ($ amount) Y, where it is no longer "polite" to continue using table space. For example, you wouldn't buy a single $50 model and then expect to use the store's tables day-in and day-out for the rest of the year without buying anything else. Certainly, we can agree that this is a bit rude (breaking the spirit of the "buy-where-you-play" rule, at least).

So we're now assuming that in order not to feel guilty (and not get nasty looks from the store owner) you are making regular purchases. You said this yourself, in any case.

Then let's say that you're spending at least $150 each month. It seems pretty reasonable that you would be able to come in any day and use table space without worrying.

Which brings me to the question; how is this so substantially different than what the OP described that you have such a problem with it? That is, $150 a month in purchases along with the implication that you are entitled to the table space is not financially that different from spending $5 to play every single day of the month (~30 days), then getting a $150 purchase for free at the end of the month. Ultimately, since it's all going to the same pot (aka store credit), you're not losing anything by paying the table fee, assuming what you said about making regular purchases is indeed true. The only difference is that people who are not making regular purchases are now contributing to the store.

Ok, I'll drop politeness for a moment there because I honestly can't find a polite way to say this.

Are you seriously that THICK that you can't grasp the concept that having the table free grant store credits means people who actually DO buy stuff in the store DONT pay for the table becuase the finite amount you pay for the same product and service is IDENTICAL to that if the table had no fee to begin with?

Seriously. this is not rocket science, this is not even gradeschool calculus, this is simple logic.
I pay 5$ for table fee, get 5 store credit, then when I buy at the store rather than paying 200$ I'm paying 195 and the 5 store credits I got for the table.
End result, I paid a total of 200$ for the model I got and the table. how is it, in any fathomable way, different than the table being free to begin with?

THAT is why I say you are petty. because you somehow have an issue with the fact that people who DONT shop are required to pay table fee, while people who DO shop are not actually required to pay table fee, as they get their money back when they shop-for them the fee is no more than a formality and does not actually cost anything.

Who did ever talked about store credits? That would be a complete different story. I meant that I wouldn't pay only for gaming, but if you do so and grant a store credit then you're paying not only for gaming but also for the miniatures/supplies.

I understand that there are some (a lot?) people that play without shopping at the store, but maybe if you charge the tables those people would play elsewhere and the gaming area would have its number of players reduced. And consequently some regular shoppers could decide to play (and to shop) elsewhere because the meta has become poor in that store. Having a lot of gamers around a store it's actually a benefit, even if only half of them usually buy items there.

Granting credits can be a solution but if a store closes it's because of the poor business skills owned by the manager/employes or because that kind of business is not particularly attractive in that specific area. A customer invests his/her money where he/her likes, if a service is not considered worthy of their money you can't blame them.

I'm not a worshipper that throws his money in what he adores, I like 40k but I won't spend more than I think it's appropriate to pay in order to continue the hobby. If it becomes more expensive, I'll drop it, or keep it on hold. But I wouldn't spend more money only because miniature games are not a solid business for some stores and I feel obliged to help them.

I totally agree about paying for the table and getting a store credit, assuming of course that those credits must be cumulative, but I won't pay for miniatures/supplies AND the access to the gaming area.

Xca|iber wrote:

Davor wrote:


Again. I am spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars. So if I pay for a table, I have all right to shop else where to get a discount and play at his store because I paid the $5 fee. So again, this struggling store rather have my $5 instead of the hundreds or thousand I spend?

So let me see if I understand this... You clearly comprehend the concept of "buy where you play" - so I can only assume that you would frown upon a person using table space without buying anything from a store. We're agreed on this, yes?

Okay, so extrapolating from there, let's assume that there is some time period X after making a purchase of size ($ amount) Y, where it is no longer "polite" to continue using table space. For example, you wouldn't buy a single $50 model and then expect to use the store's tables day-in and day-out for the rest of the year without buying anything else. Certainly, we can agree that this is a bit rude (breaking the spirit of the "buy-where-you-play" rule, at least).

So we're now assuming that in order not to feel guilty (and not get nasty looks from the store owner) you are making regular purchases. You said this yourself, in any case.

Then let's say that you're spending at least $150 each month. It seems pretty reasonable that you would be able to come in any day and use table space without worrying.

Which brings me to the question; how is this so substantially different than what the OP described that you have such a problem with it? That is, $150 a month in purchases along with the implication that you are entitled to the table space is not financially that different from spending $5 to play every single day of the month (~30 days), then getting a $150 purchase for free at the end of the month. Ultimately, since it's all going to the same pot (aka store credit), you're not losing anything by paying the table fee, assuming what you said about making regular purchases is indeed true. The only difference is that people who are not making regular purchases are now contributing to the store.

How is it different? It's different because the shop is "forcing" a sale on you then. Either you charge for the table or don't. Don't use it as an excuse "you get a credit". Basically what the shop owner is saying, "You need to buy a pot of paint from me to play". Simple as that. I actually wouldn't have any qualms if that is what is said instead of using and excuse to hide the fact of what he is doing. Nobody should be forced to buy a pot of paint to play.

The way I see it I am not getting a discount. I am paying full price. So I can just shop on GW website and have free delivery to my house then if I so chose to do so. How does this help the store? Or if I want my product right away I can go else where and get about what 25% off or pay Canadian dollars but as American listing price. So if the product is $150 Canadian I can buy what is listed as US price so then I only pay $125 Canadian instead. How is this helping the store?

So the store wants me for a customer, but offers me no discount. No other incentives. So why should I shop there? I am not speaking just figuratively. I am actually doing this. I understand the store needs to pay bills. So why do I shop there? I shop there because I can get games now. I don't have to travel or wait a week or so to get my product. So the only thing that the store is offering me is games. I don't feel like I have to pay to play since I am already supporting the store by paying full price instead of getting discounts.

So if I have to pay, then I feel like I can shop else where because instead of making purchases from the store, I can buy else where but I am supporting by paying to play and the store is only receiving $5 from me now. I don't play all the time, but let's say I play once a week or $20 a month. If I am going to pay $20 a month to play a few games, then I may as well shop else where and support another store that gives out discounts and major savings. So how is that going to help the store where I play if I buy else where?

It goes both ways. Want me to pay full price for product, then I should get something else in return. If I am not getting something else in return or how I perceive value for my dollar why shop there?

I see your point. Do you not see mine?

Reverse the process. When a customer makes a purchase, give them a chit for a 'free' table, based on amount of purchase with a minimum purchase required.

 Blackie wrote:
Who did ever talked about store credits? That would be a complete different story. I meant that I wouldn't pay only for gaming, but if you do so and grant a store credit then you're paying not only for gaming but also for the miniatures/supplies.

The only issue I have with the system of "Pay into store credit" is I'd be pooling store credit, and would rather just spend money when I'm ready to, while keeping it in the bank in case I actually need it. I'm slower making purchases now that my armies are basically acquired, and I don't know when my next project will start. Or even *if* it will start. However, a system like this would basically force it to happen at some point, because I need to spend that credit. I'm less opposed to this system, though. It's just a tactic that doesn't increase loyalty, instead it enforces loyalty, I'm not a fan of that.

But as far as having to pay to play *without* getting credit back, nope. I'll take that money and set up my own table. It doesn't cost that much (much less than I spent at the store last year, by about 90%) and the store would lose the money I'd be putting into it on full-price items and overpriced/marked up items such as snacks and drinks.

Davor wrote:

Xca|iber wrote:

Davor wrote:


Again. I am spending hundreds if not thousands of dollars. So if I pay for a table, I have all right to shop else where to get a discount and play at his store because I paid the $5 fee. So again, this struggling store rather have my $5 instead of the hundreds or thousand I spend?

So let me see if I understand this... You clearly comprehend the concept of "buy where you play" - so I can only assume that you would frown upon a person using table space without buying anything from a store. We're agreed on this, yes?

Okay, so extrapolating from there, let's assume that there is some time period X after making a purchase of size ($ amount) Y, where it is no longer "polite" to continue using table space. For example, you wouldn't buy a single $50 model and then expect to use the store's tables day-in and day-out for the rest of the year without buying anything else. Certainly, we can agree that this is a bit rude (breaking the spirit of the "buy-where-you-play" rule, at least).

So we're now assuming that in order not to feel guilty (and not get nasty looks from the store owner) you are making regular purchases. You said this yourself, in any case.

Then let's say that you're spending at least $150 each month. It seems pretty reasonable that you would be able to come in any day and use table space without worrying.

Which brings me to the question; how is this so substantially different than what the OP described that you have such a problem with it? That is, $150 a month in purchases along with the implication that you are entitled to the table space is not financially that different from spending $5 to play every single day of the month (~30 days), then getting a $150 purchase for free at the end of the month. Ultimately, since it's all going to the same pot (aka store credit), you're not losing anything by paying the table fee, assuming what you said about making regular purchases is indeed true. The only difference is that people who are not making regular purchases are now contributing to the store.

How is it different? It's different because the shop is "forcing" a sale on you then. Either you charge for the table or don't. Don't use it as an excuse "you get a credit". Basically what the shop owner is saying, "You need to buy a pot of paint from me to play". Simple as that. I actually wouldn't have any qualms if that is what is said instead of using and excuse to hide the fact of what he is doing. Nobody should be forced to buy a pot of paint to play.

The way I see it I am not getting a discount. I am paying full price. So I can just shop on GW website and have free delivery to my house then if I so chose to do so. How does this help the store? Or if I want my product right away I can go else where and get about what 25% off or pay Canadian dollars but as American listing price. So if the product is $150 Canadian I can buy what is listed as US price so then I only pay $125 Canadian instead. How is this helping the store?

So the store wants me for a customer, but offers me no discount. No other incentives. So why should I shop there? I am not speaking just figuratively. I am actually doing this. I understand the store needs to pay bills. So why do I shop there? I shop there because I can get games now. I don't have to travel or wait a week or so to get my product. So the only thing that the store is offering me is games. I don't feel like I have to pay to play since I am already supporting the store by paying full price instead of getting discounts.

So if I have to pay, then I feel like I can shop else where because instead of making purchases from the store, I can buy else where but I am supporting by paying to play and the store is only receiving $5 from me now. I don't play all the time, but let's say I play once a week or $20 a month. If I am going to pay $20 a month to play a few games, then I may as well shop else where and support another store that gives out discounts and major savings. So how is that going to help the store where I play if I buy else where?

It goes both ways. Want me to pay full price for product, then I should get something else in return. If I am not getting something else in return or how I perceive value for my dollar why shop there?

I see your point. Do you not see mine?

Basically what you're saying is that the act of handing over the $5 for the table is what offends you... which seems pretty irrational to me.

Based on what you've said, it sounds like you wouldn't have a problem with a store owner coming up to you and saying:

"Hey Davor, you spent $150 on your last purchase. That entitles you to 30 days worth of 'play tokens.' Just drop one in the jar any day you want to play and you can use a table as long as you need."

But you would have a problem with a store owner saying:

"Hey Davor, you spent $5 to use a table today. That entitles you to one 'discount voucher.' Just drop one in the jar when you make a purchase and it's $5 off the purchase price."

Mathematically, these are the same ($5 = 1 day of table use), so I'm not really sure where the problem is if it's not just some emotional overreaction to the "insult" of having to make a transaction before using a table. Moreover, I doubt any store owner that operated under one of the above methods would be opposed to allowing people to do the other (since again, they're financially the same on the store's end), so if you're really that upset about paying $5 for a table you could probably arrange to get "play tokens" from your big purchases instead.

Now to be fair, the OP doesn't seem to have asked about that at his store, so there's no way to know if it would fly, but that seems like a more tempered, reasoned suggestion based on his original question than getting mad at the supposedly horrible behavior of that particular LGS.

EDIT: Also, you said "Nobody should be forced to buy a pot of paint to play." Which begs the question, how much does someone need to buy to be able to play? You seem to be contradicting yourself here. It's obviously more than nothing, because you haven't argued that people should be able to freely use table space without ever buying anything... but if a single pot of paint is too much, then what exactly is an acceptable amount?

 Xca|iber wrote:

EDIT: Also, you said "Nobody should be forced to buy a pot of paint to play." Which begs the question, how much does someone need to buy to be able to play? You seem to be contradicting yourself here. It's obviously more than nothing, because you haven't argued that people should be able to freely use table space without ever buying anything... but if a single pot of paint is too much, then what exactly is an acceptable amount?

Great to have a civil talk. I agree, if you don't buy nothing from the store, you shouldn't be playing at the store, unless the store owner says it's ok.

The pot of paint issue I have is the way it was said. You have to pay $5 and then it goes to credit. I feel nobody should tell you how to spend your money. I guess we are just viewing it different ways and because I am not good with words I can't explain myself. First it came out as to Pay to Play. Then later as an "excuse" it came out as "it's a store credit". That is why I said, well nobody should be forced to buy a pot of paint.

Maybe call it entitlement. Maybe calling it "just want to get a deal no matter how small it is". If I spend a few hundred dollars or a thousand dollars I am like "What? You want more from me? Haven't I already spent enough at your store you want more?" Then again, being Canadian and having over 55% of our paycheck taken out for taxes through out various levels of government I just hate being nickeled and dimed to death. What is next, they going to charge for the very air we breathe?