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$75 it is.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I'd still be happier to have two, separate Epic Systems, albeit sharing models.

Let AT be about the Big Boys, and the unique tactical challenge that brings.

There's definitely room for both!

Sales though, it's all about the bottom line. Personally I'd love to see Shadowsword formations and the like, but is it financially viable? (rhetorical question, none of us know). Yea they're supporting Killteam / the WFB kill team equivalent fully, but both of these have 40K / WFB as their foundation, same with Necro (to some extent - I'm painting some SM scouts right now, I don't actually play any miniature games, but if I did, they'd do fine as Necro Enforcers, or a kill team. Can this be said of tiny Shadowswords? I don't think so).

JWBS wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I'd still be happier to have two, separate Epic Systems, albeit sharing models.

Let AT be about the Big Boys, and the unique tactical challenge that brings.

There's definitely room for both!

Sales though, it's all about the bottom line. Personally I'd love to see Shadowsword formations and the like, but is it financially viable? (rhetorical question, none of us know). Yea they're supporting Killteam / the WFB kill team equivalent fully, but both of these have 40K / WFB as their foundation, same with Necro (to some extent - I'm painting some SM scouts right now, I don't actually play any miniature games, but if I did, they'd do fine as Necro Enforcers, or a kill team. Can this be said of tiny Shadowswords? I don't think so).

Last time GW green lighted Epic and even produced new models it exceeded their own sales expectations by 400%...3rd party market is now also busy with not-space marines, not-orks, not-titans etc.

tneva82 wrote:

JWBS wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I'd still be happier to have two, separate Epic Systems, albeit sharing models.

Let AT be about the Big Boys, and the unique tactical challenge that brings.

There's definitely room for both!

Sales though, it's all about the bottom line. Personally I'd love to see Shadowsword formations and the like, but is it financially viable? (rhetorical question, none of us know). Yea they're supporting Killteam / the WFB kill team equivalent fully, but both of these have 40K / WFB as their foundation, same with Necro (to some extent - I'm painting some SM scouts right now, I don't actually play any miniature games, but if I did, they'd do fine as Necro Enforcers, or a kill team. Can this be said of tiny Shadowswords? I don't think so).

Last time GW green lighted Epic and even produced new models it exceeded their own sales expectations by 400%...3rd party market is now also busy with not-space marines, not-orks, not-titans etc.

Ah ok. So it'll likely be a success, and even if it isn't, it's irrelevant (cos 3rd party support), so long as there are decent rules available.

GW has set themselves quite a road map for AT18.

Even if they did magically decide to do a rework of Epic, it would be years before they got to it at their current release rate

DiscoKing wrote:
Warhound is only £40 on this weeks order pad.

They've changed prices from those advertised in White Dwarf before, so this sounds great!

Noticed something odd in WD this month, early on in the mag where it's previewing the new items that are then covered in detail in the new releases section. In the small preview of the Warhounds it mentions that they are now available for "The Horus Heresy: Titan Legions", so does that suggest they were originally going for a different name and branding it as a Heresy only product, unlike the released version where the main branding is Adeptus Titanicus, with the Horus Heresy part of the title just being a subtitle.

That would make it primaris redemptor price so 55€/65$ if true.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW how big that warhound titan is likely going to be? Looking at getting box from KR multicase for my titans to carry around safe. They have tray suggestions for warlord and reaver but obviously no warhound yet. Is there any solid idea how big model we are talking about? Would be very nice if they could somehow be put on 51mm deep foam as that means half depth foam would do the trick. If not it goes to full one and that's way too deep :-/

tneva82 wrote:
That would make it primaris redemptor price so 55€/65$ if true.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW how big that warhound titan is likely going to be? Looking at getting box from KR multicase for my titans to carry around safe. They have tray suggestions for warlord and reaver but obviously no warhound yet. Is there any solid idea how big model we are talking about? Would be very nice if they could somehow be put on 51mm deep foam as that means half depth foam would do the trick. If not it goes to full one and that's way too deep :-/

I think 51 mm might be a little optimistic. Maybe if you magnetize the upper body. I made a janky mockup with the images from Sunday's "Next Week" post. I have assumed that the bases are 80 mm.

Good news indeed!

My store just confirmed Warhounds are 2 for $65USD!

Ok nice so saved 10e already

And yeah if base is 80mm round no angle it works. Drat. Large empty area up to move around isn't good either plus halves amount i can carry per case

tneva82 wrote:
Ok nice so saved 10e already

And yeah if base is 80mm round no angle it works. Drat. Large empty area up to move around isn't good either plus halves amount i can carry per case

KR do 1/2, 3/4ths, double, triple cases etc nowadays. I reckon a 3/4 case would be perfect since it's 75mm tall.

aparently they do 1/4, 1/2, 1, 1.5 and 2, not 3/4 :/

Cases aren't big deal. Foams are. Half and full depth only with warhounds full would have lots of empty space and case fit...well half the foams.

Maybe do some sort of magnetised transport if i can find suitable boxes.

 TigerMafia wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
That would make it primaris redemptor price so 55€/65$ if true.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW how big that warhound titan is likely going to be? Looking at getting box from KR multicase for my titans to carry around safe. They have tray suggestions for warlord and reaver but obviously no warhound yet. Is there any solid idea how big model we are talking about? Would be very nice if they could somehow be put on 51mm deep foam as that means half depth foam would do the trick. If not it goes to full one and that's way too deep :-/

I think 51 mm might be a little optimistic. Maybe if you magnetize the upper body. I made a janky mockup with the images from Sunday's "Next Week" post. I have assumed that the bases are 80 mm.

Spoiler:

Handy thanks. And right around the height I was expecting based on measuring the Reaver and Warlord.

Yeah i had been mostly hoping it would be oval base so it might fit sideway like warlords would be(102mm depth is too short to be standing as well)

I thought it was the Eye of Horus. But that was in the original books. No idea what the new novels are doing.

Really looking forward to the Warhounds, but irked that I have to buy a separate "Weapons Deck" for guns cards, and another back to get the Command Terminals for the Warhounds. So... probably over $100 for two Warhounds?

Well rules pack has you covered for pair. I'm thinking of getting another eventually. More terminals for reavers and warlords, another set of dices(hit and reactor) and more damage counters for big games.

But yeah that's annoying though especially weapons true for all titans

 Tamwulf wrote:
Really looking forward to the Warhounds, but irked that I have to buy a separate "Weapons Deck" for guns cards, and another back to get the Command Terminals for the Warhounds. So... probably over $100 for two Warhounds?

We've yet to see anything to force you to buy the weapons decks. The cards in both the Warhound and Reaver decks were just duplicates of cards that were found in the rules box. There's no reason why you can't just make your own cards. They might not look as nice if you do. But it'll save you a nice chunk of change.

If you only want two Warhounds, you'll have the command terminals already in the Rules Set. If you only use one of each weapon across both titans, then you won't need any cards, either.

JWBS wrote:
Last time GW green lighted Epic and even produced new models it exceeded their own sales expectations by 400%...3rd party market is now also busy with not-space marines, not-orks, not-titans etc.

Wasn't Epic 40k canned within a year of release because it lost them a ton of money? Armageddon limped along for a few years as a Specialist game.

Adeptus Titanicus is not Epic. Lobby GW to make a separate Epic game, please don't ruin an elegant ruleset with a hundred special rules to handle infantry.

 judgedoug wrote:

JWBS wrote:
Last time GW green lighted Epic and even produced new models it exceeded their own sales expectations by 400%...3rd party market is now also busy with not-space marines, not-orks, not-titans etc.

Wasn't Epic 40k canned within a year of release because it lost them a ton of money? Armageddon limped along for a few years as a Specialist game.

I don't know can you call 400% sale expectation exceeding as limping. And gw unlikely green lights new models if they don't expect enough sales to generate profit.

Epic wasn#t canned due to sales being too low but because gw thought they can get same sales with less games. Ie can those, same purchas go to fb and 40k. If anything they sold too well...

 judgedoug wrote:

JWBS wrote:
Last time GW green lighted Epic and even produced new models it exceeded their own sales expectations by 400%...3rd party market is now also busy with not-space marines, not-orks, not-titans etc.

Wasn't Epic 40k canned within a year of release because it lost them a ton of money? Armageddon limped along for a few years as a Specialist game.

Adeptus Titanicus is not Epic. Lobby GW to make a separate Epic game, please don't ruin an elegant ruleset with a hundred special rules to handle infantry.

You're quoting a quote. I have no clue about GW financials or how long Epic lasted. And the idea of separate systems branching off the same rules / model range was also part of the suggestion I quoted iirc.

JWBS wrote:

 judgedoug wrote:

JWBS wrote:
Last time GW green lighted Epic and even produced new models it exceeded their own sales expectations by 400%...3rd party market is now also busy with not-space marines, not-orks, not-titans etc.

Wasn't Epic 40k canned within a year of release because it lost them a ton of money? Armageddon limped along for a few years as a Specialist game.

Adeptus Titanicus is not Epic. Lobby GW to make a separate Epic game, please don't ruin an elegant ruleset with a hundred special rules to handle infantry.

You're quoting a quote. I have no clue about GW financials or how long Epic lasted. And the idea of separate systems branching off the same rules / model range was also part of the suggestion I quoted iirc.

And incidentally at has onlv to gain on separate game utilizing same models. It would be win win

 judgedoug wrote:

Adeptus Titanicus is not Epic. Lobby GW to make a separate Epic game, please don't ruin an elegant ruleset with a hundred special rules to handle infantry.

There are already considerations for infantry built into the game if they should ever be introduced. This came out of the mouth of the author of the rules. He did an AMA on reddit. He said that he did not think there would be infantry as he thought the game should stay focused on titans, but they did mock up some infantry rules.

He did not specify as to how they would be implemented, but I imagine any non-titans would follow rules similar to those of knights - just without ion shield saves and with different weapons. In the current ruleset, anything with < or = power of 3 cannot bypass titan shields. This seems to have been added as a safeguard vs infantry shooting down titans with bolters. I for one hope they do add infantry eventually.

 Mymearan wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Ok nice so saved 10e already

And yeah if base is 80mm round no angle it works. Drat. Large empty area up to move around isn't good either plus halves amount i can carry per case

KR do 1/2, 3/4ths, double, triple cases etc nowadays. I reckon a 3/4 case would be perfect since it's 75mm tall.

aparently they do 1/4, 1/2, 1, 1.5 and 2, not 3/4 :/

They do 2/3 but it's a little short for this.

SirWeeble wrote:
He did not specify as to how they would be implemented, but I imagine any non-titans would follow rules similar to those of knights - just without ion shield saves and with different weapons. In the current ruleset, anything with < or = power of 3 cannot bypass titan shields. This seems to have been added as a safeguard vs infantry shooting down titans with bolters. I for one hope they do add infantry eventually.

Given the number of heavy weapons the typical in-game WH40K infantry list carries, one would hope that the developers would also make them immune to rocket launchers and las cannons, as well.

Eumerin wrote:

SirWeeble wrote:
He did not specify as to how they would be implemented, but I imagine any non-titans would follow rules similar to those of knights - just without ion shield saves and with different weapons. In the current ruleset, anything with < or = power of 3 cannot bypass titan shields. This seems to have been added as a safeguard vs infantry shooting down titans with bolters. I for one hope they do add infantry eventually.

Given the number of heavy weapons the typical in-game WH40K infantry list carries, one would hope that the developers would also make them immune to rocket launchers and las cannons, as well.

I'm not so sure it would be that big of a problem. In AT, knights only have 4 'wounds' and everything except the weakest weapons can wound them. The only think keeping knights from being torn up by megabolters and apocalypse missiles is their ion shields - which infantry wouldn't get - and they'd likely have fewer wounds. The RFBC's range in AT is only 24. I know they changed ranges for the sake of balance, but I'd assume a lascannon would be less than that and probably similar damage. I think even with alot of heavy weapons, they'd mostly be useful as area denial. Park them out of LOS and if a titan dares to move past that area with them still there, it would get shot in its flank. Even that would only be effective if shields were down.

Of course i say i hope for infantry based on the existing rules. The existing rules seem to be very well written so far - but the fellow that wrote the AT rules has left GW already, so its possible whatever came out next would be similar to the rest of GW's substandard rules.

I think that unless there was some really weird special rules - infantry would be kind of pre-pegged to be unusable as a complete army in themselves in AT - much the same as they are in battletech. in Battletech, sure you can get 100 infantry squads instead of 4 mechs, but they move 2 inches, longer range weapons are maybe 6 inches, and it's nearly impossible to accidentally be within range of them. The only reason you end up in range is because the opponent forces you into them because the alternative is worse.

 Mysterio wrote:
Good news indeed!

My store just confirmed Warhounds are 2 for $65USD!

Sweet! I was getting a bit upset that they would cost as much as Armigers/Helverins for about half the plastic.

SirWeeble wrote:
Even that would only be effective if shields were down.

Quite the opposite. If missile launchers and lascannons are usable against Titans, then what you'd see them used for is stripping shields.

Let's say, just for the sake of argument, that you have an Eldar host of 100 Guardians, organized into 10 squads of 10 Guardians each. Under WH40K list building guidelines, each squad will include a heavy weapon. Under Epic infantry rules as they've existed in the past, each squad will be divided into one stand of five Eldar armed with shuriken catapults, and one stand of five eldar armed with shuriken catapults and a heavy weapon. Under the new AT rules, if the heavy weapons have strength of 4 or greater, than a titan that wanders into range and line of sight will be subjected to ten heavy weapons shots. And you get to watch your void shield melt away faster than a snowman in a furnace.