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 Yodhrin wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
Well, using the term "weapons upgrades" probably wasn't the best idea the FW guys have ever had. Still, this is the danger of forgetting that rumor mongers generated this and not FW. Sort of like watching the Mandella effect play out and everyone crying foul when reality doesn't match their memory.

Folk keep saying stuff like this, but I will happily assert that if you had asked 99% of the people who're now pronouncing on how silly we all were for taking words at face value rather than parsing every potential meaning and then assuming the worst what they expected to be coming up for AT releases, they'd have said "weapon upgrade packs" as well.

I, like many people, assumed that weapon packs would eventually be available. The difference is that I knew I was making an ASSUMPTION based on how things went for Necromunda and Blood Bowl, not on statements attributed to FW. Why? Because I hadn't actually read anything from FW on the subject and if they didn't actually say it then can't be reasonably expected for them to do it. Maybe they will have upgrade packs for their titans, maybe they won't. That was my expectation and that is why I only bought the two Warlords that came with the great big box. I can always buy later once I see how things actually play out.

I've been around long enough to know how FW operates, many of us have. Look on FW's web site and you'll see other FW releases have gone either way regarding upgrade/full kit. For example, they released the House Terryn Upgrade Kit which was just some resin add-on bits then released the Questoris Knights which were full kits instead of bits/conversion kits - no upgrade sprues there. FW generally doesn't say things like "upgrade sprues coming soon" unless it's up next for release because the schedule for their resin stuff is truly glacial. Don't expect their definition of "soon" to match your own. Ever.

If you insist on upgrades instead of new models, feel free to look for 3rd party alternatives for your "extra" titans, or print your own if you have a 3d printer available. Eventually stuff will start appearing on places like Shapeways so you can always go to them if you really want. Or convert your own as others have/are doing. Or don't. It's all up to you.

I would caution everyone not to get mad because FW didn't stop the community from formulating and perpetuating inaccurate information. I don't think they've ever done this. Just look at all the 6mm vs. 10mm arguments flying around the forums, they could EASILY put an end to that by actually measuring their stuff, doing the math, and saying "this is the scale", but they don't. Instead of making a purchasing decision based on assumptions about what FW is going to do, approach it with a measure of caution. If FW actually says something then it's all good, pile in. Otherwise, hedge your bets. It's been this way for decades so I'm not really sure why people seem to have lost sight of this.

they'd have said "weapon upgrade packs" as well.

I think it's also important to note that the only reason why people haven't been rushing en masse to 3D printing as a solution for the missing weapons is because they were holding out for weapons packs. The hassle of designing the weapons was balanced against the cost of exercising a little patience, and spending a few additional dollars (or whatever your local currency is). Most people decided to go the patience route. But if FW is going to change that "few additional dollars" to "$330US to outfit one Warlord titan with the weapons load-out that you want for your Axiom maniple," then an awful lot of people are going to decide that the hassle of 3D printing is suddenly worth it.



- The $330US cost comes from the idea that you'll want to outfit your Warlord with a carapace weapon, and two arm weapons that are from different warlord kits.

I can see both sides of the argument, but I'm going to wait till we get some more word from GW/FW before jumping to any conclusions.

I'm a slow hobbyist - I've got some time.

Eumerin wrote:
I think it's also important to note that the only reason why people haven't been rushing en masse to 3D printing as a solution for the missing weapons is because they were holding out for weapons packs.

I expect many will. Myself, I'm lazy and too poor to buy a SLA/DLP printer at the moment. Unless some amazing stuff pops up on Shapeways quickly, I'll likely grab one or two of the new titan kits. I'm looking to increase the number of Warlords I have anyway so why not?

Eumerin wrote:

they'd have said "weapon upgrade packs" as well.

I think it's also important to note that the only reason why people haven't been rushing en masse to 3D printing as a solution for the missing weapons is because they were holding out for weapons packs. The hassle of designing the weapons was balanced against the cost of exercising a little patience, and spending a few additional dollars (or whatever your local currency is). Most people decided to go the patience route. But if FW is going to change that "few additional dollars" to "$330US to outfit one Warlord titan with the weapons load-out that you want for your Axiom maniple," then an awful lot of people are going to decide that the hassle of 3D printing is suddenly worth it.



- The $330US cost comes from the idea that you'll want to outfit your Warlord with a carapace weapon, and two arm weapons that are from different warlord kits.

Yep. The one that this decision hurts most is sales of the official weapons. Why buy them when you can buy 3rd parties. Or even not buy at all. We have rules in cards. That's the way I'm going to go to.

I guess they might be packing an upgrade kit once they made all of them. But right now they're making it exclusive to the Titan variant box.

Or they just released 2 box, weapon upgrade and new titan variant at the same time. GW doesn't seem to mind about making extra packaging for stuff.

Chopstick wrote:
I guess they might be packing an upgrade kit once they made all of them. But right now they're making it exclusive to the Titan variant box.

Or they just released 2 box, weapon upgrade and new titan variant at the same time. GW doesn't seem to mind about making extra packaging for stuff.

Based on FW's responses 2nd is not going to happen. Best we can hope is 1st or them separate later like warglaives first came in forgebane box and few months later on their own.

 Breotan wrote:

Eumerin wrote:
I think it's also important to note that the only reason why people haven't been rushing en masse to 3D printing as a solution for the missing weapons is because they were holding out for weapons packs.

I expect many will. Myself, I'm lazy and too poor to buy a SLA/DLP printer at the moment. Unless some amazing stuff pops up on Shapeways quickly, I'll likely grab one or two of the new titan kits. I'm looking to increase the number of Warlords I have anyway so why not?

Anycubic Photon is a great 3d printer for $400, much cheaper than other high resolution printers.

 ph34r wrote:
Anycubic Photon is a great 3d printer for $400, much cheaper than other high resolution printers.

Yea, I've been looking at that one. Still a lot of cost given I don't currently have much to print. We'll see what next year brings.

SirWeeble wrote:



I made a post when I was on the fence asking whether they said there were going to be seperate weapons sprues - or in predictable GW fashion, they'd make their customers buy a whole new warlord like they did with the castellan knights. People posted links to the statements that they were going to be seperate. If they were going to pull cheap tricks like this, then they could have just not said anything and I would have held off, seen the BS they're pulling, and dropped the idea entirely.

I was on the fence as well, waiting to see what was going to happen and how well it was going to take off in my area.

Needless to say, I’m not going to bother for a while now. The biggest thing for me, alongside having a glorious Maniple, was being able to load them out with all kinds of crazy weaponry and just have a laugh playing the game. Don’t get me wrong, the models are fantastic, but, I can’t afford to buy a new Warlord, Warhound or Reaver box each time they release a different option, just so I can further diversify my force in terms of loadouts.

I’m going to give it 6 months and then I’ll revisit everything to see the state of the releases and make a new decision then.

It’s a sad state when FW is nickel and diming harder on its game systems than GW proper is.

This is a really poor decision. “Thanks for buying loads of models at launch that were almost what you wanted! Now you get to buy again!”

Well. It's not a complete disaster. I was going to get at least one more Warlord, so now it's going to be this new load out, which I will magnetize and have complete flexibility over the weapons.

So Andy "Corporate" Hoare keeps saying that "I was very careful not to say separate weapon upgrades" back in the pre release videos.

Fair enough but the flip side is that they planned this dick move from the start but to avoid tanking release sales he did not have the balls to say "weapon upgrades will cost £90 per loadout"

This is the type of gak that kills game systems, but I guess it's the customers fault because New GW and reasons.

Smoke and Mirrors

SeanDrake wrote:
So Andy "Corporate" Hoare keeps saying that "I was very careful not to say separate weapon upgrades" back in the pre release videos.

Fair enough but the flip side is that they planned this dick move from the start but to avoid tanking release sales he did not have the balls to say "weapon upgrades will cost £90 per loadout"

This is the type of gak that kills game systems, but I guess it's the customers fault because New GW and reasons.

Smoke and Mirrors

Yea, I think subconsciously I thought this might happen as I kept all my new toys sealed !

They really dont help themselves do they, I have spoken to many people this morning that are dropping AT altogether because they are fed up with this gak.

It's a kick in the teeth for all those who jumped on board in a big way and thus bought lots of warlords. Thankfully I'm not in that camp, but I Can certainly see how many people leaped in ready to get upgrade packs and are now looking at having to buy new warlords.

THAT said ebay will likely be a saving grace as split kits might become popular enough to support spare bits; but they might end up like gold-dust. Plus its a hoop people shouldn't have to jump through.

It's a shame and I really hope GW can react to this negative press and review their policy.


They would get away with this for knights, possibly evne reavers, but the Warlords are so expensive and big that people just don't need 20 of the things.

Has there been any communique from GW on the subject of separate upgrade packs or are the last three or so pages all speculation?

Of course not.

And I was stupid enough to assume the upgrades were available separately because FW’s site is full of - I don’t know - upgrade sets!

 Overread wrote:
It's a kick in the teeth for all those who jumped on board in a big way and thus bought lots of warlords. Thankfully I'm not in that camp, but I Can certainly see how many people leaped in ready to get upgrade packs and are now looking at having to buy new warlords.

Nah no more warlords for me. Hell I was actually planning to buy more warlords(long term plan was 3 more) but with this assuming 3 patterns of warlord I would need at least 10 to have enough weapons for me then. Nope. Ain't going to happen. I just play non wysiwyg if I can't find suitable 3rd parties and certainly has made those extra 3 warlords into long term plans.

I was ready to buy 5-6 sprues(scaled down to 3 when it was revealed one had 2 plasmas rather than 1 I thought) but if they don't come separately...Well I'll probably get those new knights and other new chassis but warlord+reaver+warhound wise I'm set. One legion with 2/2/4 and one with 1/2/4. Good enough.

edit: One way to look at it. FW was kind enough to make AT lot cheaper to play. Forget weapon upgrade sprues. If no such things then just play with stock model and use cards to identify weapons. If they don't sell item they obviously won't get money for it.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Has there been any communique from GW on the subject of separate upgrade packs or are the last three or so pages all speculation?

As far as I can tell it's speculation mixed with enough salt to pay the salary of a small Roman legion.

What I find interesting to note is that people somehow did not see the Warlord thing coming, especially given how things went down with Imperial Knights a few years back. Which in turn makes me wonder A: what exactly they based their expectations on, B: why they did not dampen said expectations (because let's be honest, it is GW we are talking about here) and C: why they are being so impatient, it's been only a few short months since AT was released after all.

On the other hand, maybe I should be scratching my head about why I'm not railing against GW instead. Yes, maybe my viewpoint is the weird one.

I have no idea about 3D printing annoyingly. I have a mate with one I assume I just send him the files?

Shapeways is silly money £40 for 2 pairs of weapons! Might as well buy a new warlord.

One thing to note, it says "Weapon Sprue" so I imagine the new kit will have the original Volcano Cannons excluded, which is a shame as I would have picked one up to convert them to other weapon types.

I already have 4 warlords so do not "need" any more. Just a crap load of weapons.

 Cruxeh wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Has there been any communique from GW on the subject of separate upgrade packs or are the last three or so pages all speculation?

As far as I can tell it's speculation mixed with enough salt to pay the salary of a small Roman legion.

What I find interesting to note is that people somehow did not see the Warlord thing coming, especially given how things went down with Imperial Knights a few years back. Which in turn makes me wonder A: what exactly they based their expectations on, B: why they did not dampen said expectations (because let's be honest, it is GW we are talking about here) and C: why they are being so impatient, it's been only a few short months since AT was released after all.

On the other hand, maybe I should be scratching my head about why I'm not railing against GW instead. Yes, maybe my viewpoint is the weird one.

a) Andy Hoare has dropped in
b) Knights actually have all weapons in box. Not comparable. Bring knights up when you get all the weapons in warlord box like you get with knights. You comparing 2 totally different things. Apples and oranges doesn't even begin to cover the difference.

It was making a big deal about magnets that did it. Magnets matter if there's going to be a way to buy weapons without having to get a duplicate Warlord.

This does seem like it's been badly mishandled. Hopefully GW realise this is a massive own goal or a decent 3rd party steps in to meet demand

tneva82 wrote:

a) Andy Hoare has dropped in
b) Knights actually have all weapons in box. Not comparable. Bring knights up when you get all the weapons in warlord box like you get with knights. You comparing 2 totally different things. Apples and oranges doesn't even begin to cover the difference.

Andy actually dropped in? That's neat, didn't know that.

As far as B goes, are you actually telling me that they did not release the Knight Paladin/Errant at first, only to release the Warden/Gallant/Crusader later on with merely an additional weapon sprue and price-tag? Woops, must have remembered that wrong. Sorry, my bad!

Which does bring me to a far more important thing: what do you all reckon the price of that new Warlord kit is going to be? The same as the current one? Or am I looking at more than 85 euros? (Minus whatever I can scrape off of that between the exchange rates and discounts, of course )

Anybody willing to take a stab at guessing the price of those Cerastus Knights as well? Because I am hoping they'll be the same price as the current ones, but we all know what they say about hope.

 Cruxeh wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

a) Andy Hoare has dropped in
b) Knights actually have all weapons in box. Not comparable. Bring knights up when you get all the weapons in warlord box like you get with knights. You comparing 2 totally different things. Apples and oranges doesn't even begin to cover the difference.

Andy actually dropped in? That's neat, didn't know that.

As far as B goes, are you actually telling me that they did not release the Knight Paladin/Errant at first, only to release the Warden/Gallant/Crusader later on with merely an additional weapon sprue and price-tag? Woops, must have remembered that wrong. Sorry, my bad!

Which does bring me to a far more important thing: what do you all reckon the price of that new Warlord kit is going to be? The same as the current one? Or am I looking at more than 85 euros? (Minus whatever I can scrape off of that between the exchange rates and discounts, of course )

Anybody willing to take a stab at guessing the price of those Cerastus Knights as well? Because I am hoping they'll be the same price as the current ones, but we all know what they say about hope.

As I said. Compare it again when they sell all weapons in one warlord box rather than pattern per box. For comparison that would be following boxes for knights:

a) paladin
b) errant
c) crusader
d) gallant
e) warrant
f) preceptor

See? How many kits that is? You think warlords going that is same thing as knights now? At least with knights you could wait to get full box and have all options. Now you will need 3 boxes of warlord for 1 complete warlord. WAAAAAAY different.

Don't compare apples and oranges.

So, I'll admit I'm thoroughly late to the party, but...

How many weapons packs are there going to be? Is it just one, which comes with all weapons and a warlord or are there going to be different boxes for different builds? Like, if you had the Grand Master box and you bought an extra warlord with the weapons upgrades, would you have enough weapons to outfit all three in different load outs?

Also, is the price going to be the same as the standard warlord, or is there going to be a $30 price increase for the extra sprue or some nonsense like that?

 godswildcard wrote:
So, I'll admit I'm thoroughly late to the party, but...

How many weapons packs are there going to be? Is it just one, which comes with all weapons and a warlord or are there going to be different boxes for different builds? Like, if you had the Grand Master box and you bought an extra warlord with the weapons upgrades, would you have enough weapons to outfit all three in different load outs?

Also, is the price going to be the same as the standard warlord, or is there going to be a $30 price increase for the extra sprue or some nonsense like that?

For first this has just some of the weapons. It will still lack gatling blaster carapace, macro gatlling arm weapon, quake cannon arm, turbo laser destructor carapace and vulcan mega bolter array. AT LEAST one more box if not 2 will be coming up.

For last one if it's in addition to others it's def going to be more expensive. Alternatively same price but lacks the standard weapon sprue.

tneva82 wrote:

 Cruxeh wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

a) Andy Hoare has dropped in
b) Knights actually have all weapons in box. Not comparable. Bring knights up when you get all the weapons in warlord box like you get with knights. You comparing 2 totally different things. Apples and oranges doesn't even begin to cover the difference.

Andy actually dropped in? That's neat, didn't know that.

As far as B goes, are you actually telling me that they did not release the Knight Paladin/Errant at first, only to release the Warden/Gallant/Crusader later on with merely an additional weapon sprue and price-tag? Woops, must have remembered that wrong. Sorry, my bad!

Which does bring me to a far more important thing: what do you all reckon the price of that new Warlord kit is going to be? The same as the current one? Or am I looking at more than 85 euros? (Minus whatever I can scrape off of that between the exchange rates and discounts, of course )

Anybody willing to take a stab at guessing the price of those Cerastus Knights as well? Because I am hoping they'll be the same price as the current ones, but we all know what they say about hope.

As I said. Compare it again when they sell all weapons in one warlord box rather than pattern per box. For comparison that would be following boxes for knights:

a) paladin
b) errant
c) crusader
d) gallant
e) warrant
f) preceptor

See? How many kits that is? You think warlords going that is same thing as knights now? At least with knights you could wait to get full box and have all options. Now you will need 3 boxes of warlord for 1 complete warlord. WAAAAAAY different.

Don't compare apples and oranges.

Yeah but you're talking like you can build all the baneblades (fellblade, Glaive, that megabolter one) from the same kit. It doesn't always work like that, same with loads of their stuff. How many kits are based around the rhino chasis? How many separate purchases do you need to buy to build them all? Loads. Sometimes we get the good (a kit with loads of options - but you pay for the options that you won't be using, so it's not all upside), sometimes we don't. Personally I'm not mad that I can't build a fellblade and a glaive from the same kit. I don't own either, but I like them both, and maybe one day I'll buy a fellblade, and I won't be annoyed that I don't have the glaive gun in there too.

 godswildcard wrote:
So, I'll admit I'm thoroughly late to the party, but...

How many weapons packs are there going to be? Is it just one, which comes with all weapons and a warlord or are there going to be different boxes for different builds? Like, if you had the Grand Master box and you bought an extra warlord with the weapons upgrades, would you have enough weapons to outfit all three in different load outs?

Also, is the price going to be the same as the standard warlord, or is there going to be a $30 price increase for the extra sprue or some nonsense like that?

On current evidence, there is not going to be weapon upgrades available. You buy a Warlord and chose whether you want the one that has the sprue for two Volcano Cannons and Apocalypse Missile Launcher or the one that has the sprue for two Sunfury Plasma's, Laser carapace weapons and a power claw. Note that rules exist for the Quake Cannon and Mega Gattling Blaster arm weapons and the Gattling Blaster and Vulcan Mega Bolter carapace weapons so it's entirely possible that we'll end up with 4 seperate Warlords released with different loadouts. Not that you're ever likely to want to run 4 Warlords in a game.

JWBS wrote:

Yeah but you're talking like you can build all the baneblades (fellblade, Glaive, that megabolter one) from the same kit. It doesn't always work like that, same with loads of their stuff. How many kits are based around the rhino chasis? How many separate purchases do you need to buy to build them all? Loads. Sometimes we get the good (a kit with loads of options - but you pay for the options that you won't be using, so it's not all upside), sometimes we don't. Personally I'm not mad that I can't build a fellblade and a glaive from the same kit. I don't own either, but I like them both, and maybe one day I'll buy a fellblade, and I won't be annoyed that I don't have the glaive gun in there too.

Ummm...You can build baneblade so that you can swap between loadouts. Baneblade one game, shadowsword next, then stormlord, doomhammer...And you can do that on knights. Only thing stopping warlords from doing that is there's no weapons because FW decided not to sell the weapon sprues on their own.

This is like selling baneblade kit with only one variants weapons each. But thing is GW doesn't do it like that. They sell ALL variants in one box so with magnets(which warlord kit was pretty much needlessly designed with) you can swap variants. Sure if you want 3 baneblade chassis at once you need 3 models. But again apples and oranges to here. We are talking about inability to have warlord with swappale weapons with one kit. Same ability baneblades has. Same ability knights have. Same ability most of GW models are. Even basic tactical marines are more magnet friendly kit than warlord.

I occasionally wonder why they didn't go with more weapon options. The original AT was fantastic because it had such a range of builds you could try with the six Warlords in the box.