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 Crimson wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

What's really hilarious about this is you think you're being clever, when you're talking to somebody who's collecting a homebrew Legio with a homebrew Knight Household and who's writing a full background for both including a custom culture for the Knight World based on a fusion of elements from the pre-conquest Zoroastrian Sassanian Empire and post-conquest Islamic Persia - I'm fairly sure my imagination is fully armed and operational.

And this sounds positively awesome. So you don't need FW to spell this stuff out for you.

All I'd like to see is FW putting in that same level of effort for the "official" Legios and Households. You know, since this is supposed to be a Heresy product, and one of the big appeals of FW's Heresy products is supposed to be the excruciatingly-detailed pseudohistorical vibe where they go into every aspect of the factions practically down to the level of what the featured characters like to eat for breakfast. Or more accurately, I'd like to see FW release the fruits of their efforts - since they've ostensibly already come up with most of this info already - to us, so that AT stands up to the level of quality and detail of the black books.

Eh. There already is plenty of info. The 40K knight codices might be a good source for more details pertaining the knights.

Yeah I know, but I think these guys are saying that they want it all codified and neatened up, as well as more comprehensive stuff added for the new Titan Death stuff. I agree, there's loads of info out there already, but even for us veterans it requires plenty of digging (ofc same could be said of the Ultramarines example I used, there's an absolute mountain of info from the past 25 years, but for newbies, when there's a new codex out that's generally all they need, no need to dig). Like I say I'm satisfied with the current state of the AT fluff, and I expect it to grow and solidify as the game grows.

Caved.

New Reaver, Data things and weapon cards ordered.

JWBS wrote:
[Yeah I know, but I think these guys are saying that they want it all codified and neatened up, as well as more comprehensive stuff added for the new Titan Death stuff. I agree, there's loads of info out there already, but even for us veterans it requires plenty of digging (ofc same could be said of the Ultramarines example I used, there's an absolute mountain of info from the past 25 years, but for newbies, when there's a new codex out that's generally all they need, no need to dig). Like I say I'm satisfied with the current state of the AT fluff, and I expect it to grow and solidify as the game grows.

The problem is that a two colour list is next to useless when it comes to IK paint schemes as most consist of at least three colours and vary wildly in there placement. Take for example Cadmus, who according to the list have a green/yellow heraldy. While that is true, it is no help in figuring out the shade of green and yellow used and gives no indication of the distribution of the colours as well as making no mention of the armour trim. Fortunately for anyone who is interested in painting IK's from house Cadmus they have been featured in every version of the 40k codex so far and there are plenty of examples. But the vast majority of Knight houses in the list have either zero existing examples of there colour schemes in existence, or are listed as having different schemes to any previously shown.

Imagine if the only info about pre Heresy World Eaters and Ultramarines was that they were bothe white and blue. Honestly it would have been better if they had just given the names. The heraldry part of the list just causes confusion, gnashing of teeth and internet rage.

GoatboyBeta wrote:
[quote=JWBS 716640 10322817 null
The problem is that a two colour list is next to useless when it comes to IK paint schemes as most consist of at least three colours and vary wildly in there placement. Take for example Cadmus, who according to the list have a green/yellow heraldy. While that is true, it is no help in figuring out the shade of green and yellow used and gives no indication of the distribution of the colours as well as making no mention of the armour trim. Fortunately for anyone who is interested in painting IK's from house Cadmus they have been featured in every version of the 40k codex so far and there are plenty of examples. But the vast majority of Knight houses in the list have either zero existing examples of there colour schemes in existence, or are listed as having different schemes to any previously shown.

So? Any combination of the listed colours is equally correct; none of this is real. Besides, they're knights, and each can have somewhat personalised heraldry, not every single one needs to be a carbon copy of an official FW colour plate.

 Crimson wrote:

correct;

real.

These are not synonyms.

My whole objective with my AT project is to follow the "codex" schemes, and explicitly not make them up myself. All my Titans will follow the livery of individual engines from the colour plates as closely as possible, and I'd like to do similarly with any support units. I would appreciate as much info as possible.

 Azreal13 wrote:

My whole objective with my AT project is to follow the "codex" schemes, and explicitly not make them up myself.

Doing that would bore me to tears, but whatever floats your boat. However...

All my Titans will follow the livery of individual engines from the colour plates as closely as possible, and I'd like to do similarly with any support units. I would appreciate as much info as possible.

In the scale of AT wishing for exact details of individual livery of each knight is pretty much as asking for details of each individual member of Blood Angels 5th company second assault squad for 40K.

For me, half the hobby is creating my own Legio and Knight Household (or other units/organizations for other games).

But that's for me - my hobby is not the same as anyone else's, and I can totally respect both views, as well as everything in between.

So my hope is that they will eventually provide some "official" guidelines for doing that. In the meantime, I'm going to keep "making things up" and ensuring they're balanced enough so that others are happy to play on the other side of the table!

 Crimson wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

My whole objective with my AT project is to follow the "codex" schemes, and explicitly not make them up myself.

Doing that would bore me to tears, but whatever floats your boat. However...

Well, how you feel is of absolutely no consequence, it's an objective I've set myself explicitly because agonising over colour choice and placement is one of the biggest time sinks in most other projects for me. I'm finding it a breath of fresh air actually.

All my Titans will follow the livery of individual engines from the colour plates as closely as possible, and I'd like to do similarly with any support units. I would appreciate as much info as possible.

In the scale of AT wishing for exact details of individual livery of each knight is pretty much as asking for details of each individual member of Blood Angels 5th company second assault squad for 40K.

Exactly what do you think "as closely as possible" means?

 Azreal13 wrote:

Exactly what do you think "as closely as possible" means?

Well, in the case of those new knight houses it means combining the two colours in any manner you please!

 Crimson wrote:
So? Any combination of the listed colours is equally correct; none of this is real. Besides, they're knights, and each can have somewhat personalised heraldry, not every single one needs to be a carbon copy of an official FW colour plate.

*sigh* No any combination of the listed colours are not equally correct. That is the whole point of having house specific heraldic schemes. Your essentially saying there is no difference between house Mortanhttps://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/House_Mortan and house Ravenhttps://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/House_Raven as they both use Red and black in there colour schemes.

 Crimson wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

Exactly what do you think "as closely as possible" means?

Well, in the case of those new knight houses it means combining the two colours in any manner you please!

Which will be an absolute compromise for anyone who likes to use official schemes or has chosen to in this case.

It won't be "as closely as possible" it'll be "educated guess." That a given house has been given colours almost certainly means that the imagery exists, if only in the author's head, and to not have access to that information but to know it exists will bother anyone aiming for an element of precision in their schemes. In this case as closely as possible involves a phone call to the studio, which has a low probability of success and a high requirement for excessive hobby OCD.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

GoatboyBeta wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
So? Any combination of the listed colours is equally correct; none of this is real. Besides, they're knights, and each can have somewhat personalised heraldry, not every single one needs to be a carbon copy of an official FW colour plate.

*sigh* No any combination of the listed colours are not equally correct. That is the whole point of having house specific heraldic schemes. Your essentially saying there is no difference between house Mortanhttps://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/House_Mortan and house Ravenhttps://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/House_Raven as they both use Red and black in there colour schemes.

I wouldn't bother any further dude, this is clearly a case of "got mine, feth the rest of you" and there's little chance of making any headway.

GoatboyBeta wrote:

*sigh* No any combination of the listed colours are not equally correct.

But there is no more information that those two colours. It doesn't exist. Thus any interpretation is equally correct. This is not like historicals where you can check it against the real thing.

That is the whole point of having house specific heraldic schemes. Your essentially saying there is no difference between house Mortanhttps://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/House_Mortan and house Ravenhttps://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/House_Raven as they both use Red and black in there colour schemes.

And even there the placement of colours wildly varies between individual knights. It would be perfectly plausible to have a Raven with so much black that at a glance it would look like a Mortan or a Mortan that has more red than usual.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Azreal13 wrote:

Which will be an absolute compromise for anyone who likes to use official schemes or has chosen to in this case.

It won't be "as closely as possible" it'll be "educated guess." That a given house has been given colours almost certainly means that the imagery exists, if only in the author's head, and to not have access to that information but to know it exists will bother anyone aiming for an element of precision in their schemes. In this case as closely as possible involves a phone call to the studio, which has a low probability of success and a high requirement for excessive hobby OCD.

It is 'close as possible' as all canon information there is, is those two colours. More information may appear later, and thus things can change, but that has happened in the past too. Several marine chapters have chaged their official colour schemes during the lifespan of the game. But if you're worried about that, why you need to choose the Knight Houses on which there is very little information on? There is tons of information on many Knight Houses; if this stuff matters to you then why not use the houses there is plenty of information on? Those sort of 'oh just use these colours... somehow' are probably intended for people who are fine with working with that level of information.

Well moving away from throwing ping pong balls at each others tanks, https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/01/25/25th-jan-white-dwarf-preview-februarygw-homepage-post-2/ it looks like the AT article in WD is about running Titans and IK in a combined maniple.

GoatboyBeta wrote:
Well moving away from throwing ping pong balls at each others tanks, https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/01/25/25th-jan-white-dwarf-preview-februarygw-homepage-post-2/ it looks like the AT article in WD is about running Titans and IK in a combined maniple.

Thank you for the heads up. It will be interesting to see how this new maniple works...

GoatboyBeta wrote:
Well moving away from throwing ping pong balls at each others tanks, https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/01/25/25th-jan-white-dwarf-preview-februarygw-homepage-post-2/ it looks like the AT article in WD is about running Titans and IK in a combined maniple.

More important is that they're reprinting the Epic Orks V Squats battle report! Excellent!

But Jervis is the guest editor, so they'll only include it in 1 in 6 copies.

Reprinting a whole battle report from a oop game in a separate booklet? It will certainly add fuel to the bring back Epic fire. And IIRC didn't that game include Squats? Maybe it is just a big old nostalgia shot from the WD team, but my inner conspiracy nut wonders if GW are prepping the ground for something

GoatboyBeta wrote:
Reprinting a whole battle report from a oop game in a separate booklet? It will certainly add fuel to the bring back Epic fire. And IIRC didn't that game include Squats? Maybe it is just a big old nostalgia shot from the WD team, but my inner conspiracy nut wonders if GW are prepping the ground for something

A man can dream. They should have included the Necromunda Squat in the report for proper old times

 Crimson wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

What's really hilarious about this is you think you're being clever, when you're talking to somebody who's collecting a homebrew Legio with a homebrew Knight Household and who's writing a full background for both including a custom culture for the Knight World based on a fusion of elements from the pre-conquest Zoroastrian Sassanian Empire and post-conquest Islamic Persia - I'm fairly sure my imagination is fully armed and operational.

And this sounds positively awesome. So you don't need FW to spell this stuff out for you.

You...you do grasp the difference between a homebrew Legio and an official one, right?

They are two entirely different scenarios, and responding to someone who desires the latter with "just use your imagination" is like telling a WW2 rivet counter that the camo pattern of the tanks from the unit they're modelling to play a specific historical campaign doesn't really matter. It maybe doesn't matter to you, but it's one of the main reasons they're interested at all. Again, look at the black books - do we need an account of a Legion's major campaigns prior to being reunited with their Primarchs, a list of their various nicknames and appellations, loads of examples of variant colourschemes and iconography etc etc, in order to paint some models silver and call them Iron Warriors? No, not at all, but for a lot of folk it makes the experience of collecting a given army a lot richer and more interesting.

All I'd like to see is FW putting in that same level of effort for the "official" Legios and Households. You know, since this is supposed to be a Heresy product, and one of the big appeals of FW's Heresy products is supposed to be the excruciatingly-detailed pseudohistorical vibe where they go into every aspect of the factions practically down to the level of what the featured characters like to eat for breakfast. Or more accurately, I'd like to see FW release the fruits of their efforts - since they've ostensibly already come up with most of this info already - to us, so that AT stands up to the level of quality and detail of the black books.

Eh. There already is plenty of info. The 40K knight codices might be a good source for more details pertaining the knights.

Except as the vague list in the back of the new AT book(and the Knights of Taranis in the Mechanicum novel, and Tempestus in Titanicus) demonstrates, post-Heresy markings and background info for a Household or Legio can be completely different to pre-Heresy, and some of it ostensibly changes during the Heresy itself. Without access to that kind of info, you don't get cool projects like an old buddy of mine who did a HH warband of loyalist Death Guard who'd repainted their gear in their old Terran colours as Dusk Raiders.

GoatboyBeta wrote:
Reprinting a whole battle report from a oop game in a separate booklet? It will certainly add fuel to the bring back Epic fire. And IIRC didn't that game include Squats? Maybe it is just a big old nostalgia shot from the WD team, but my inner conspiracy nut wonders if GW are prepping the ground for something

if they are going to bring back Epic they'll tell the new generation about it and see the response.

They've got the terrain and Imperial Knights and Titans done.

If they bring back Aeronautica in a couple of years they'll have the planes.

If they did Epic they might start with Marines vs Marines in the HH exactly like the original Epic and Adeptus Titanicus did.

Basically doing Epic to a modern standard is a project equal to at least the whole output for 40k for a year, and Specialist don't yet have the resources for that. So if they did it then they'd have to split it up so they can launch something, get a return on it, and test the market. Andy Hoare can't rock up to the CEOs office and ask for at least £15 mill to triple the size of Specialist games, produce several dozen plastic kits, and take up a quarter of the release schedule for a couple of years for a game that used to be maybe 10% of sales without getting asked for some really hard figures to justify that level of investment.

Specialist turned a £5 million profit last year. This has translated into more plastic resources and I would bet on Orks being greenlit for Titanicus (not that we'd get confirmation or leaks on that for a year or more, and won't see anything before 2021 I would guess), but bear in mind Specialist wanted to do Gothic this year and didn't because it would have taken everyone in specialist putting everything into that and forgetting BB, Necro, Titanicus and Shadespire.

Basically if people want to see Epic, it's time to get your titans, play some games, give GW feedback and show there is demand for it to justify that investment.

But I certainly see Aeronautica as being a possible brick in building the new epic, and GW should be encouraged to do a new shiny and easy to collect/play aeronautica that competes with things like X wing.

Well, FW are promising a big reveal at the Weekender.

Outside chance, sure. But still a chance.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well, FW are promising a big reveal at the Weekender.

Outside chance, sure. But still a chance.

Big reveal is likely to be Sanguinius, and that the new guy they're put in charge of HH has done some work and that Book 8 might not be a dumpster fire.

If they're smart they'll do a new plastics deal for HH players, or something. They've finally done the 8th rules for Adeptus Custodes that they were told to do two years ago, so maybe they're starting to turn the Forgeworld ship around.

Specialist Games will be there. Tell them Titanicus is great and buy Andy Hoare a drink but not so many that he dies.

If I was paying attention properly to the Twitch feed last night, those Custodes rules were actually written by Jim Gallagher from the main Design Studio, not by members of the Forge World team. Although I'm sure there was input from them.

Ben2 wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well, FW are promising a big reveal at the Weekender.

Outside chance, sure. But still a chance.

If they're smart they'll do a new plastics deal for HH players, or something. They've finally done the 8th rules for Adeptus Custodes that they were told to do two years ago, so maybe they're starting to turn the Forgeworld ship around.

Having failed to purchase Calth or Prospero, I would jump at the chance for another big box of HH plastics.

Ben2 wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:
Reprinting a whole battle report from a oop game in a separate booklet? It will certainly add fuel to the bring back Epic fire. And IIRC didn't that game include Squats? Maybe it is just a big old nostalgia shot from the WD team, but my inner conspiracy nut wonders if GW are prepping the ground for something

if they are going to bring back Epic they'll tell the new generation about it and see the response.

They've got the terrain and Imperial Knights and Titans done.

If they bring back Aeronautica in a couple of years they'll have the planes.

If they did Epic they might start with Marines vs Marines in the HH exactly like the original Epic and Adeptus Titanicus did.

Basically doing Epic to a modern standard is a project equal to at least the whole output for 40k for a year, and Specialist don't yet have the resources for that. So if they did it then they'd have to split it up so they can launch something, get a return on it, and test the market. Andy Hoare can't rock up to the CEOs office and ask for at least £15 mill to triple the size of Specialist games, produce several dozen plastic kits, and take up a quarter of the release schedule for a couple of years for a game that used to be maybe 10% of sales without getting asked for some really hard figures to justify that level of investment.

Specialist turned a £5 million profit last year. This has translated into more plastic resources and I would bet on Orks being greenlit for Titanicus (not that we'd get confirmation or leaks on that for a year or more, and won't see anything before 2021 I would guess), but bear in mind Specialist wanted to do Gothic this year and didn't because it would have taken everyone in specialist putting everything into that and forgetting BB, Necro, Titanicus and Shadespire.

Basically if people want to see Epic, it's time to get your titans, play some games, give GW feedback and show there is demand for it to justify that investment.

But I certainly see Aeronautica as being a possible brick in building the new epic, and GW should be encouraged to do a new shiny and easy to collect/play aeronautica that competes with things like X wing.

They could do hh epic tith rulebook and 2 plastic sprues

tneva82 wrote:

Ben2 wrote:

GoatboyBeta wrote:
Reprinting a whole battle report from a oop game in a separate booklet? It will certainly add fuel to the bring back Epic fire. And IIRC didn't that game include Squats? Maybe it is just a big old nostalgia shot from the WD team, but my inner conspiracy nut wonders if GW are prepping the ground for something

if they are going to bring back Epic they'll tell the new generation about it and see the response.

They've got the terrain and Imperial Knights and Titans done.

If they bring back Aeronautica in a couple of years they'll have the planes.

If they did Epic they might start with Marines vs Marines in the HH exactly like the original Epic and Adeptus Titanicus did.

Basically doing Epic to a modern standard is a project equal to at least the whole output for 40k for a year, and Specialist don't yet have the resources for that. So if they did it then they'd have to split it up so they can launch something, get a return on it, and test the market. Andy Hoare can't rock up to the CEOs office and ask for at least £15 mill to triple the size of Specialist games, produce several dozen plastic kits, and take up a quarter of the release schedule for a couple of years for a game that used to be maybe 10% of sales without getting asked for some really hard figures to justify that level of investment.

Specialist turned a £5 million profit last year. This has translated into more plastic resources and I would bet on Orks being greenlit for Titanicus (not that we'd get confirmation or leaks on that for a year or more, and won't see anything before 2021 I would guess), but bear in mind Specialist wanted to do Gothic this year and didn't because it would have taken everyone in specialist putting everything into that and forgetting BB, Necro, Titanicus and Shadespire.

Basically if people want to see Epic, it's time to get your titans, play some games, give GW feedback and show there is demand for it to justify that investment.

But I certainly see Aeronautica as being a possible brick in building the new epic, and GW should be encouraged to do a new shiny and easy to collect/play aeronautica that competes with things like X wing.

They could do hh epic tith rulebook and 2 plastic sprues

If they redo Epic, even just HH epic, then it'll have at a minimum the stuff from the Legion lists including the tanks and planes. It'll also be all plastic given the other things GW are doing.

It'll never be the two sprues of the original set.

For the starter box it would be, effectively.

One for Infantry. Tactical Marines, maybe some Heavy Support Squads, Terminators etc.

The other tanks. Land Raiders, Rhinos and Predators (all stuff which still exists in quantity in 40k, guess why)

Two sprues of Infantry per side, one sprue of Tanks per side (or the other way around).

Easypeasy.

Just noticed the Reaver command terminal packs and weapon card packs are listed as last chance to buy. What is the deal with this, isn't this an essential for people with lots of Reavers?

How many of each of this stuff comes in the GM box again? I'm not at home right now so can't check myself.

That's not last chanceto buy in traditional sense. Just stock level running low with more coming later


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
For the starter box it would be, effectively.

One for Infantry. Tactical Marines, maybe some Heavy Support Squads, Terminators etc.

The other tanks. Land Raiders, Rhinos and Predators (all stuff which still exists in quantity in 40k, guess why)

Two sprues of Infantry per side, one sprue of Tanks per side (or the other way around).

Easypeasy.

Add in what thev have moulds already if they wish. 100% fine current style land raiders, predators, vindicators, rhino, aa vehicles. Dreads as well? They don#t even really need vehicle sprue.

Nor do thev need everything at once. Spread oup release would be name of game anyway. Or since when specialist game got everything at once? Not bb, not necro, not at. We still are waiting core items for at

tneva82 wrote:
That's not last chanceto buy in traditional sense. Just stock level running low with more coming later

It has a little hourglass icon which, when tapped upon, says "Last Chance to Buy" though.