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I recall one of the designers talking much earlier in AT's life about the fact taht doing the Imperial versions of demon infested titans was something they were interested in doing with the game. It also lets them stretch out the "Imperial only" period of AT by adding more titan types and variations to the game.

It also means that they can vary how they do Chaos Titans in the future. Eg right now they make the frame of most titans (at least bigger ones) be on its own sprue so that they can, in theory, cast them on their own and then cast up a separate "chaos armour and weapons" sprue later.

Of course it depends how they tackle chaos titans - some are just titans with warped armour and weapons; others are fully warped with flesh legs and such.

 Overread wrote:
I recall one of the designers talking much earlier in AT's life about the fact taht doing the Imperial versions of demon infested titans was something they were interested in doing with the game. It also lets them stretch out the "Imperial only" period of AT by adding more titan types and variations to the game.

I can't find the reference, but I'm pretty sure that another campaign setting was mentioned at a seminar at one point early this year, and that the old fluff for that battle mentioned it being an early encounter with deamon armies. With a mild retcon, they could position that battle as the first encounter with daemonic Titans, and there you go. And heck, if there are daemon Titans, it might be a good place to introduce Ordo Sinister as an adversary. Just speculating.


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 Apologist wrote:
Interesting line of thinking – certainly makes sense.

Talking of Scout Titans, the only ones we saw prior to mention of the Rapier were the old Slaaneshi Questor and Subjugator Daemon Engines. I wonder if we'll see some nods to their design in the Rapier, in the same way as the 40k-scale HH range is releasing non-corrupted versions of things like the Greater BLight Drone etc.

I think it'll be a surprise if the Rapier isn't the conceptual predecessor to those old Slaaneshi engines.

I'm probably just wishing too hard about the timing, etc. though.

I have a personal theory that the "no immediate plans" to release the Warbringer are because it's going to be used as part of an expansion which adds the aircraft from Aeronautica Imperialis.

One of the Warbringers notable armaments is it's defense array which contains two flak turrets. Additionally Games Workshop, despite saying otherwise, are clearly thinking about Epic in some capacity or they wouldn't have made AI in the same scale as AT.
As it stands the increase in scale of AI really does the game no favors (the increased detail isn't really necessary and the game now likely requires more playing space), with the sole obvious benefit being that it can be generate cross-range sales in AT and if AI were to completely flop then the range could wholesale be folded into AT.

Just think, they could release a campaign book, the Warbringer, new non-hex stands for the planes, and another Questoris upgrade kit with extra arm weapons and Icarus Autocannons.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
On a completely separate topic in case anyone missed it, Vanguard Miniatures released an upgrade for the AT Acastus to give it conversion beamers.

Nice find on the beamers. If only I'd magnetized my Acastus arms there and not at the shoulder...

Regarding an AT/AI mashup...that would seem to go against everything they've said at every seminar about AT being its own thing and focused solely on Titan battles. Anything's possible, but they seem pretty entrenched on that.

Besides, future proofing for something isn't the same as actively planning for something.

 gorgon wrote:
Nice find on the beamers. If only I'd magnetized my Acastus arms there and not at the shoulder...

Regarding an AT/AI mashup...that would seem to go against everything they've said at every seminar about AT being its own thing and focused solely on Titan battles. Anything's possible, but they seem pretty entrenched on that.

They can have new rule set for the big battles with titans, aircraft and other elements. It could be even named something like...ummmm...epic?

It's not like you can't use same models in multiple game systems. Or is somebody coming to burn your models if you dare to use same model in kill team and warhammer 40k

tneva82 wrote:

It's not like you can't use same models in multiple game systems. Or is somebody coming to burn your models if you dare to use same model in kill team and warhammer 40k

The wargamers guild will NOT stand for it!

Lads, ready your torches!

tneva82 wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
Nice find on the beamers. If only I'd magnetized my Acastus arms there and not at the shoulder...

Regarding an AT/AI mashup...that would seem to go against everything they've said at every seminar about AT being its own thing and focused solely on Titan battles. Anything's possible, but they seem pretty entrenched on that.

They can have new rule set for the big battles with titans, aircraft and other elements. It could be even named something like...ummmm...epic?

It's not like you can't use same models in multiple game systems. Or is somebody coming to burn your models if you dare to use same model in kill team and warhammer 40k

Epic would be a different game system though, and not an AT supplement per the designers. So your comment there really isn't on point.

Mind you, the rules for Apocalypse are out there already...

gorgon wrote:Nice find on the beamers. If only I'd magnetized my Acastus arms there and not at the shoulder...

Yeah, I didn't notice it until after posting since I haven't built my Acastus' yet, but the connection points are completely different. I honestly will probably just wait for the official GW upgrade/kit since it'll likely use a matching connection point which will make magnetizing easier.

gorgon wrote:Regarding an AT/AI mashup...that would seem to go against everything they've said at every seminar about AT being its own thing and focused solely on Titan battles. Anything's possible, but they seem pretty entrenched on that.

They say that but they've arguably already gone somewhat against that with the Knight House lists in Molech. While you can make the argument that Knights are just "Titan infantry" (even being referred to at times as Knight Titans), they have much simpler mechanics than actual Titans and a banner of Questoris feels significantly more different than any comparison between a Warhound, Reaver, and Warlord in my experience.

Additionally, and since I have no proof of this I want to stress that it's only my supposition, I feel as though the Knight's inclusion (beyond fitting visually with true god engines) is that it gives the weaker Titan weapon systems a use beyond just quickly stripping void shields. Hence why in the core rules Knights were referred to as "Support Banners" and "Household Support".

More specifically relevant to why it would make sense to add flyers is that The Warbringer is unique for two reasons: 1) being the only currently seen artillery titan and 2) being the only current titan with an anti-air defense weapon system. Sure they could replace the Anvillus batteries with some other armament and I doubt anyone would cry, it does feel like a bit of a loss in my opinion.

Additionally I'm not talking about the flyers playing as if they were still in Aeronautica, rather I imagine they'd be heavily simplified and operate more akin to flying Support Banners. This would add an additional element of strategy to AT since you need to bring some form for anti-air and also gives a counter to leaving massive guns unprotected on the backline which could become a concern with Warbringers if they can fire out of LoS. All of which still doesn't detract from Titans as the "stars" of the show.

Again though, I have no real inside knowledge and could be completely wrong. It just feels like there are a lot of dots lining up in a way that's too convenient to outright dismiss.

Cyrixiinus wrote:Besides, future proofing for something isn't the same as actively planning for something.

But future proofing is by it's very nature an exercise in planning for a potential forthcoming state. Yes, I know it doesn't mean there's a secret manuscript in a vault at Nottingham titled "Epic 2020", but based on studio comments about how they've visually tested down scaled 3D prints internally and made the AI planes to scale with the AT Titans, clearly some brain power was committed to a possible future Epic. Otherwise they would have picked arbitrary sizes for each separate 40k microscale game based on whatever was most mechanically practical for that system.

And I do want to clarify that my theory of adding planes to AT is NOT me theorizing the release of Epic. Rather, as I detailed above, I think adding planes as "flying support units" would allow GW to add specific anti-air weapons to AT and also expand the layers of strategy in the game. Especially with a future artillery Titan making turtling a concern.

tneva82 wrote:They can have new rule set for the big battles with titans, aircraft and other elements. It could be even named something like...ummmm...epic?

It's not like you can't use same models in multiple game systems. Or is somebody coming to burn your models if you dare to use same model in kill team and warhammer 40k

Nurglitch wrote:Mind you, the rules for Apocalypse are out there already...

As detailed above, I'm not talking about Epic or Apocalypse where you have infantry all the way up to Titans, just the addition of simplified flyers as an added support element to AT. Otherwise you have a forthcoming titan with two Anvillus batteries and nothing to shoot, not to mention the missing Knight anti-air weapons (which I will concede could just be ignored like the Las Impulsor and Laser Destructor).

Besides potential future proofing for a Com in ed arms game, I can think of a few reasons to scale both the titans and planes in 8mm.

Similarity of the work. AT scale is different from 40k scale, with specific considerations for both design details and sprue development and layout. Adding a third, incompatible Le s ale would need a different skill set than using 8mm when there is no need for the scales to be incompatible

Second, using the same scale means digital elements can be shared across models, for things like weapon barrels, decorative elements, ect.

Third, making them the same scale allows for hobby intercompatability, things like using AT buildings as scenery for an AI game or diorama, or Planes decorating an airfield the titans are fighting over, even without gaming rules.

The Grot in the Grot Bomb marches up nicely in scale with an old Epic Gretchin...

 Alpharius wrote:
The Grot in the Grot Bomb marches up nicely in scale with an old Epic Gretchin...

Then the old Epic Grots must have been way oversized. The Grot in the Bommers are pretty big, too big to be 6mm scale to my eye, they're about 5mm tall when seated, probably more like 6mm when standing, and they should be shorter than a regular human.



Old Epic scale was pretty awfully inconsistent, Marines were tiny, from memory shorter than 6mm, other models were massive, closer to or even bigger than 7mm. Vehicles were often more like 3 or 4mm. When it's stated that Epic was 6mm, that was more of a rough approximation than a rule.

OK?

I mean, yes!

Have you seen the size of the various Tyranid infantry from back them?

Pretty big stuff...

Point being, I think it'll all still work well enough!

Upon further review, new Grot might be *slightly* larger? But maybe not?



Either way, close enough for when, in that mythical far away future day, Epic returns!

A few points regarding the Warbringer.

1) The Arioch power claw bit comes with a VMB that has no representation in the game. The AA turrets can easily be the same.

2) The FW model is specifically a Warbringer Nemesis...for 30K/40K. We may not get that variant for AT. Other Warbringers may have different loadouts.

3) Seems like a stretch to suggest that the Warbringer's introduction has to be related to secondary AA turrets on a Titan bristling with much bigger guns.

I don't think so - the warbringers primary gun is clearly artillery based, but those two side guns are big anti-air weapons. You don't overlook those so easily.

That said it might appear with those side guns ages before they actually add air units into AT if they ever do.

The turrets are tertiary weapons at most.



And other Warbringer variants may have different armaments there. I just don't think their reason for including a Warbringer chassis in AT will be because those little turrets set up air units in a game that they keep professing will only ever include Titans. To me, that's making multiple leaps. *shrug*

Following a player's descent into heresy...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/12/24/tiny-knights-big-dreams-weird-conversions-a-year-of-adeptus-titanicusgw-homepage-post-2fw-homepage-post-4/

 gorgon wrote:
they keep professing will only ever include Titans.

You are talking about company that flat out denied any plans of redoing space hulk week before announcing. At which point it's been in work months

tneva82 wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
they keep professing will only ever include Titans.

You are talking about company that flat out denied any plans of redoing space hulk week before announcing. At which point it's been in work months

GW never hints about big future releases. They want you paying attention and buying what they are doing now, not what might come in years to pass. It's actually abnormal for GW to have announced the Old World so far in advance, though even then they've given no other details as to the game besides general "It's like Horus Heresy"

I also think that when GW is experimenting with an idea or isn't sure themselves they don't say what "might" be on the table. I appreciate that as there is nothing more annoying than a company that keeps hinting and promising stuff that never comes to pass (Spartan Games used to do this at lot and it was very frustrating to think that they were working on something that then never came to be). GW plays their cards close. That said I think many believe that if AT keeps selling well then there is every chance that GW will continue to expand it. Adding chaos warped titan kits; Chaos Demons and fully corrupted titans; adding Xenos Titans and then perhaps an Epic revival. It might also hinge on AN doing well too and if both titans and planes do well then there's every chance GW might dip their toes into some ground units. Heck by then they'll have buildings, plants, titans and military installations/bunkers/turrets aplenty.

SamusDrake wrote:
Following a player's descent into heresy...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/12/24/tiny-knights-big-dreams-weird-conversions-a-year-of-adeptus-titanicusgw-homepage-post-2fw-homepage-post-4/

Wow, those are some fantastic conversions, glad I saw them before I start to build my knight battleforce. Never would have thought to turn the Ambot into a Titan!

Ambot... Hmmmm....

Thought provoking.

With 40k/AoS kit rIvet and bots will always be too big compared to the AT-scale one.

For that reason I only use fleshy 40k bit like muscular arms, claw, tentacle, or horn to make mutated chaos knights.

For Imperium Knights I just left them as is, but use various tiny 40k bits like icon/skull to decorate the carapace.

I personally would just use new Knights, Titans, and Aeronautica planes along with either Troublemaker or Vanguard troops/vehicles and play with the Epic Armageddon ruleset. It's a perfectly good ruleset to play Epic, unless you really love old Space Marine. No need to repeat 30 year old history and shoehorn vehicles and ground troops into the Titanicus rules.

If you are a stickler for GW product only and hate third party stuff because it's not accurately sculpted enough, it's easy to get infantry and vehicles on Ebay.

I do reckon though, that the points, stats and prices of the Epic: Armageddon titans were definitely scaled in line with the (relatively) tiny models. I’d like to see them improved a little, if I was using AT models.

But what I really want is the old classic weapons back for AT. You know, Corvus Assault Pods, Harpoon Launchers, the Barrage Missile Launcher, that sort of thing…
Maybe a new generic Warlord Terminal that includes a Carapace Landing Pad instead of the carapace guns?
Or the stripped down Night Gaunt body that omits the carapace weapons entirely in favour of better speed and turns…

More weapons will probably come with any new Titan kits. Hopefully if the Warbringer is any indication, classes of a similar size will have (some)compatible mounts.

This was posted by Vogon on Bolter and Chainsword who was at the open day yesterday and spoke to people there:

There will be new Adeptus Titanicus stuff coming out soon - check the community website in a couple of weeks.
They will be going Warhound size Ursus Claws. Now they have all the core weapons they will be able to make the more esoteric stuff. While chatting they dropped serious hints about a book covering the shadow crusade in Ultramar and the legions involved.

Sounds good. IIRC there are a few Legio's involved in the Shadow Crusade that are still just names, and getting tempted by new colour schemes is always fun

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I personally would just use new Knights, Titans, and Aeronautica planes along with either Troublemaker or Vanguard troops/vehicles and play with the Epic Armageddon ruleset. It's a perfectly good ruleset to play Epic, unless you really love old Space Marine. No need to repeat 30 year old history and shoehorn vehicles and ground troops into the Titanicus rules.

If you are a stickler for GW product only and hate third party stuff because it's not accurately sculpted enough, it's easy to get infantry and vehicles on Ebay.

You can also use the new Armegeddon rules which work well for this scale of battle

 ImAGeek wrote:
This was posted by Vogon on Bolter and Chainsword who was at the open day yesterday and spoke to people there:

There will be new Adeptus Titanicus stuff coming out soon - check the community website in a couple of weeks.
They will be going Warhound size Ursus Claws. Now they have all the core weapons they will be able to make the more esoteric stuff. While chatting they dropped serious hints about a book covering the shadow crusade in Ultramar and the legions involved.

Bring on the weird weapons and titans! Please don't just be FW stuff though, I can't justify $40 for two guns, fortunately I have an extensive bits box to make most of their current stuff myself.

In other news I discovered that you can make a passable model for the Knight Valiant using the Questoris and Cerastus kits seeing as I doubt we will be seeing an official model for it any time soon...