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 MajorWesJanson wrote:
I'm hoping the sprue comes with 2 of each, and that it heralds a new batch of plastic sprues for other titans, especially the warbringer which never gets to play in the fw reindeer games

Warbringer spotted on the new epic base, but I think those are regular weapons.

 gorgon wrote:

 schoon wrote:
So... New Warhound weapon options:

A melta weapon for Warhounds? That can presumably make targeted attacks?

I'm thinking they will be similar to the Warmasters shrunk down Melta Cannons, but who knows what GW will come up with! Something, anything, that reduces the Plasma spam on Warhounds can't be a bad thing.

Oh noticed they are expanding the civitas line with destroyed buildings in the latest legiones article. It's pretty clearly a 3d print (lots of horizontal line artifacts from I guess the stress of all the little window panes) but hopefully just early prototype for new plastic sprues.

 Lord Borak wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 schoon wrote:
So... New Warhound weapon options:

A melta weapon for Warhounds? That can presumably make targeted attacks?

I'm thinking they will be similar to the Warmasters shrunk down Melta Cannons, but who knows what GW will come up with! Something, anything, that reduces the Plasma spam on Warhounds can't be a bad thing.

Yeah probably, and that one is still Blast, darn it. I'd probably field the PBG over it in most instances.

Apparently all AT models will get a repack with new bases for nuEpic. A good portion of the range is already listed as "no longer available", that is the "goes out of production" version.

Will be interesting to see how much of a price rise this will come with. Anybody willing to take notes of the current prices, so we can have a comparison in two months time?

They've been out of production for a while, for at least 6 months to a year iirc . Hopefully we get a re-release.
I hope Armiger also get a plastic release

Every Titan will go "no longer available" sometimes in the next month since they will be repackaged with new bases, Knight probably too. Also I would expect the Warlord and Reiver to get everything in a single box now.
The Civitas terrain will also be repackaged with the new destroyed versions and maybe the spires also get included in a single kit.
The interesting kit is the Manufactorum. It also went "no longer available" now and that could just be because the box gets changed to the new Legions Imperialis label but maybe it will also get a new destroyed version too?

 Darnok wrote:
Apparently all AT models will get a repack with new bases for nuEpic. A good portion of the range is already listed as "no longer available", that is the "goes out of production" version.

Will be interesting to see how much of a price rise this will come with. Anybody willing to take notes of the current prices, so we can have a comparison in two months time?

The updated basing and box change shouldn't affect the price directly. However what would is if they start to include multiple weapon sprues and AT terminal cards (like the Warmaster had).

Several 40k models got reboxed in the last year to include extra weapon sprues & reduce the number of separate boxes. The Leman Russ went up by £2.50 while knights and baneblade variants were +£5.

So at a guess;
£37.50 > £40 for Reavers
£70 > £75 for Warlords?

 Mr_Rose wrote:
“Ten things you need to know” article for Epic 5.0...

Decent little article. Makes me guardedly optimistic.

I'm liking the flexibility in list creation they're touting.

So are we sure AT will keep getting any sort of support going forward, or will it be left on life support until current stock of rulebooks etc run out.

I can't see any new campaign books etc coming now. At best we get rules for some stuff such as new weapons when they are released for epic.

It's in the "we don't know wait and see" bracket.

GW are notorious for dropping game support material, esp things like card stock. At the same time AT DID do well enough for them to consider Epic and there is a valid market for keeping a game that uses the same models and only requires a rulebook or a single compendium rulebook on sale.

GW could keep it alive if they want or they could kill it - its a coin toss with what they will do.


The other angle is what the market does. The market could reject the new Epic; or not buy into it enough. Or the market could embrace it so hard that functionally there aren't any AT events any more

 Tamereth wrote:
So are we sure AT will keep getting any sort of support going forward, or will it be left on life support until current stock of rulebooks etc run out.

I can't see any new campaign books etc coming now. At best we get rules for some stuff such as new weapons when they are released for epic.

What I suspect will happen in the near term:

- All existing Titanicus models will be phased out and repackaged into Epic Scale branded boxes
- Titans will be packaged into a single box with all weapon options as well as the new base, so no more seperate sprues
- Probably include thin card rules alongside
- Titanicus will likely have a repackaged starter with Epic Scale branding

They'll likely reduce SKUs as much as possible. After that, anytime something new is released for Epic, if it's Titanicus appropriate, it'll be bundled with the rules to play in Titanicus. I also reckon a lot of Forgeworld resins will be redone in plastic. I suspect most weapon options and some of the Knights. One hopeful wish I have is that if they are redone in plastic, we may see some new head variants and tilt shields.

It was pretty obvious AT development was done when they made an expansion anthology. I'm glad it's at least getting rules for the new titan guns.

can easily see the Epic starter replacing the AT starter in stores, hopefully the newer rules are at least compatible with the mechanics in AT

repackaging with all options and any cards etc makes sense (and should have been how it was in the first place)

I could see various kitc converted over to plastic, new weapons, and possibly a compendium every so often with things like "ruined buildings and superheavy tanks in games of AT"

 Tamereth wrote:
So are we sure AT will keep getting any sort of support going forward, or will it be left on life support until current stock of rulebooks etc run out.

I can't see any new campaign books etc coming now. At best we get rules for some stuff such as new weapons when they are released for epic.

If they were going to give AT the axe, they wouldn't have spent the time and effort on the compendium book. They would have just let it die. Unlike a lot of internet denizens, GW is more than smart enough to understand that all AT players (and AI players for that matter) aren't going to migrate to Legions just because it exists. Plenty won't. Makes more sense to keep both sets of customers around so that anything Titan-related can be sold to a larger audience.

Call me naive if you want, but I still don't think the Rapier is off the table. Especially since resin is an option as we saw with the Dire Wolf. Could easily have a place in both systems.

Rapier would have been nice in the Starter, but the Warhound is more iconic, and an excuse for plastic weapons. The Harpoon/Lance and Melta dont seem like the most logical weapons for dealing with infantry and small tanks after all.

It will be used to deal with other Titans,Titans will always be the main attraction on an Epic display table, and GW knew that.

Not much faith in either AT or AI sticking around as Legions Imperialis now seems to have titans, knights and aircraft all covered in one game system. There is also high expectation for GW to deliver other games such as Warmaster and BFG, and I doubt GW can afford to cover three different game systems when one will do.

I would venture that AT and AI could change direction to the 40K era, which would soften the blow of LI being 30K only and would differentiate them. The Eldar Phantom is one of the most iconic Adeptus Titanicus releases, while Ork players could possibly be the second most popular faction ever after Space Marines - Gargants and Stompas would be a huge hit.

But for the time being we have a plastic sprue for the Warhounds, and hopefully more for the other Titans. It would be a shame if they didn't at least give us one final hurrah with the Rapier. Now might be the time for the community to consider a fan magazine along the lines of Warp Rift...

This is the most exciting preview if I'm honest

Will be nice to be able to kit bash and also just to have civitas back.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Rapier would have been nice in the Starter, but the Warhound is more iconic, and an excuse for plastic weapons. The Harpoon/Lance and Melta dont seem like the most logical weapons for dealing with infantry and small tanks after all.

True, and I never bought the idea that the Rapier 'has to be' for fighting infantry and such. Seems to me Lancers and Acastus can feth up Titans pretty good.

SamusDrake wrote:
Not much faith in either AT or AI sticking around as Legions Imperialis now seems to have titans, knights and aircraft all covered in one game system. There is also high expectation for GW to deliver other games such as Warmaster and BFG, and I doubt GW can afford to cover three different game systems when one will do.

I would venture that AT and AI could change direction to the 40K era, which would soften the blow of LI being 30K only and would differentiate them. The Eldar Phantom is one of the most iconic Adeptus Titanicus releases, while Ork players could possibly be the second most popular faction ever after Space Marines - Gargants and Stompas would be a huge hit.

But for the time being we have a plastic sprue for the Warhounds, and hopefully more for the other Titans. It would be a shame if they didn't at least give us one final hurrah with the Rapier. Now might be the time for the community to consider a fan magazine along the lines of Warp Rift...

What I have faith in GW understanding is that if you want to play an aircraft dogfighting game, Legions won't be the game for you. Nor will Legions be the game for someone who wants to play a crunchier game of Titan maniple combat. I'm under no biological imperative to play Legions just because I like Titan battles, and there will be plenty of other AT players who will pass on Legions. So why not keep those games alive and sell the same kits to more than one customer base?

I agree that AT will probably need to move into xenos factions in order to have a strong future. And I think it has a chance to do that someday when they're also ready to move out of the 30K period for Legions/a new Epic game. Heresy heads may not want to hear it, but there would be far more potential customers for Ork and Eldar factions than ultraniche 30K factions.

I don't expect any further direct support for AT apart from "incidental" additions (AT rules for releases primarily developed and branded for Epic, possibly including some dumb white dwarf addon for using tanks and infantry in AT)

If I remember correctly, and my memory is awful, Titans were not that great in EPIC-Armageddon. I can't recall many people taking anything other than the odd Warhound and the times I took them they seemed quite underwhelming. The emphasis was most certainly on Infantry, tanks and mobile units that could capture objectives.

If that's anything to go by I can't see Heavier Titans like Warlords and Warmasters really having a huge role to play in EPIC. They may have rules but they may well not be worth taking. So I can't see GW canning Titanicus, they wouldn't have invested so much in all these cool big models to then create EPIC which then makes those big cool models obsolete. Whilst I do feel that Titanicus might be just getting scraps for a while we may well see some of those smaller scale Titans that have been hinted at for so long like the Rapier and the other scale 7 titan(s) which might be better suited to EPIC rather than titanicus.

Heh, you never know, those Flack cannons on the Warbringer and Warmaster might actually come in handy in EPIC. It might also be a better system to field those Knight houses in.

 Lord Borak wrote:
Heh, you never know, those Flack cannons on the Warbringer and Warmaster might actually come in handy in EPIC. It might also be a better system to field those Knight houses in.

I think people will be fielding Knights sooner than Titans. They had to include two warhounds because of the way the sprue is made, but It would have been more interesting to have one Warhound and a sprue
of those new(ish) Acheron & Castigator knights.

 gorgon wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Rapier would have been nice in the Starter, but the Warhound is more iconic, and an excuse for plastic weapons. The Harpoon/Lance and Melta dont seem like the most logical weapons for dealing with infantry and small tanks after all.

True, and I never bought the idea that the Rapier 'has to be' for fighting infantry and such. Seems to me Lancers and Acastus can feth up Titans pretty good.

Rapiers don't have to be for fighting infantry & tanks but it certainly helps to give them a purpose when Dire Wolves & Warhounds & Acastus & Lancers all exist. It's much easier to justify a unit that can work in multiple roles rather than shoehorning it into an already overcrowded one.

 gorgon wrote:
Heresy heads may not want to hear it, but there would be far more potential customers for Ork and Eldar factions than ultraniche 30K factions.

As much as I'd love to see gargants again, I really don't think it's that simple. There's a strong commercial reason the Heresy concept was used since the 1980's and is still used now.

If GW release a small niche selection Mechanicum models then it doesn't need to be a huge investment for them. They can put out 2-4 new kits, any literally any Epic Heresy player can slot those models into a list if they feel like it. Doesn't matter if they currently field mostly marines or guard or knights or titans. They can impulse buy those new Skitarii tech guard & Ordinatus engine as a new detachment and it's not a major project.

Then a while later GW can release some more obscure marine / guard / knight units. Again it's a low barrier of entry to existing Epic players, and If any of these individual niche releases aren't popular then it was only a small investment. Meanwhile GW are using previous Epic models to attract further new customers to the game via discounted boxed sets.

However in order to sell Orks or Eldar GW have to make a much riskier investment, because players can't just pick up 2-3 boxes of Orks and start playing a game. They can't use their existing AT titan and knight models to round out a list. Realistically it means designing at least the same 10 new kits but compressed into a shorter release schedule so that players can build functional armies. That requires selling at a discount, rather than the full price they'd be selling at previously. In turn that means GW have to convince even more players to buy a whole new Epic army from scratch, and find Epic opponents to play with on suitable terrain.

I think it'll happen eventually, but a key first step is going to be growing the Epic market first. Get people playing the game in shops and clubs, make sure the terrain is available and accessible. Then they can make the bigger gambles.

The rapier is tough because the warhound really does seem like "the floor" in terms of titan stats. It's no help that the next current biggest model is the acastus and they're so objectively well performing for the points.

I think rapiers would have to be functionally lighter armoured warhounds. The other problem with presenting them as sorta one down in the scale chain is you're quickly running out of points to reduce from a warhounds base cost.

So it would make more sense perhaps to make them scale 6 like hounds, similar stats but perhaps bump movement at the cost of armour, could be like the only titan that has a Armour of 9 on the body or less varied damage model.


There currently aren't any titan's that do more of a support or buff to other titans at the core level. Could honestly see rapier being cable in a support role like laseing/scoping targets or painting/marking targets for other titans. A simple mechanic like the old tau marker lights would be great too. Could be dirt simple like if the laser hits you leave a counter at the targets base that if used by another friendly titan allows for example re-rolls to hit or integer buffs to help mitigate cover for targetted shots. The second idea could be fun an organic, like you could have a situation where a target titan is in 50% cover or has a body part obscured making targeted attacks usually not possible, but perhaps if a rapier has eyes on the target it can help buff the shot. Could help mitigate both cover and range modifiers.

Would love it if like how they gave the dire wolf a special deployment ability, they have rapiers like outflank or something similar to the dire wolf's infiltrate style deployment. Could even see it having the ability to place mines or some kind of disruption.

An even easier to overheat titan than warhound doesn't sound too great to play tbh.

So for anyone who thought AI wouldn't go away, everything except SM and Imperial Army flyers is on last chance to buy

Edit: Was meant for the Epic thread but might still be interesting to see how titanicus pans out now that AI seems to go away

 Matrindur wrote:
So for anyone who thought AI wouldn't go away, everything except SM and Imperial Army flyers is on last chance to buy

Edit: Was meant for the Epic thread but might still be interesting to see how titanicus pans out now that AI seems to go away

Well, one thought, re-boxing with additional bases for epic, because the current bases for ai look sorta bad/out of place in epic. The AT stuff is likely getting a re-boxing with thinner bases and hopefully cards/terminals.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Chopstick wrote:
An even easier to overheat titan than warhound doesn't sound too great to play tbh.

Ya exactly, but could see a faster warhound equiv with weaker armour.

 Crablezworth wrote:

 Matrindur wrote:
So for anyone who thought AI wouldn't go away, everything except SM and Imperial Army flyers is on last chance to buy

Edit: Was meant for the Epic thread but might still be interesting to see how titanicus pans out now that AI seems to go away

Well, one thought, re-boxing with additional bases for epic, because the current bases for ai look sorta bad/out of place in epic. The AT stuff is likely getting a re-boxing with thinner bases and hopefully cards/terminals.

Alas, it's all the Xenos and post-Heresy units that have gone Last Chance to Buy, and Epic is Horus Heresy-era only. 40k Aeronautica Imperialis is dead.