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"going into GW stores" lends more weight to the 'plastic Titans are a *must*!" side of things!

   
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 Alpharius wrote:
"going into GW stores" lends more weight to the 'plastic Titans are a *must*!" side of things!


Not really if the starter only has rules and plastic scenery as originally planned.

Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis 
   
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SeanDrake wrote:

Not really if the starter only has rules and plastic scenery as originally planned.


That would be an excellent way to kill the game stone dead.

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I really find it hard to believe anyone would release a "starter set" for a wargame these days and not include any miniatures besides terrain.

That's just pants-on-head stupid.

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 Silent Puffin? wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:

Not really if the starter only has rules and plastic scenery as originally planned.


That would be an excellent way to kill the game stone dead.


Exactly!

Games being sold in GW stores are going to have plastic models - almost guaranteed!

   
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Vermis wrote:
aka_mythos wrote:Giving us 2 Warlords and a building for $200. And if the medium sized games really use 5-6 Warlords, people will buy 3 boxes of the game.


Seems... optimistic. For most gamers anyway.
I realize its a lot of "IF"... but all other things being equal if they can do "Imperial Knights: Renegade" with the two 40k - Knights and a building kit... it is only a question of how many they believe they can sell or want to sell that determines how possible it is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
krazynadechukr wrote:

chat with James Hewitt after the Adeptus Titanicus seminar, GW had this to say: “While the game was clearly inspired by previous editions of Titanicus, as well as Epic, it’s very much it’s own new thing." ... "... been working on making the 40k scale Warlord into a AT scale and it’s taken around 2 to 3 months to complete." ... "I think this will be a really good system to get into when it comes out – which is still not finalised. Because it’s going out in GW stores it has to fight it’s way into the main GW schedule, and apparently there’s already a lot lined up for the next two years which is making Titanicus problematic to schedule.” ... It started in a different scale... actually very different...things varied from 8mm to 10mm..."
At a 10mm scale its even bigger than 6 inches tall for a Warlord... ~7.5" tall for a Warlord Titan in 10mm. This doesn't support the rumor that the Warlord for AT is going to be ~5 inches.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/08 19:40:21


 
   
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I think the smartest play here would be a fairly typical GW/FW style approach...but lean toward the Blood Bowl direction they've been doing.

1) Starter box and at most 3-5 boxed sets of plastic (box of knights, box of wolf hounds, boxed reaver, boxed warlord). That's not a huge ask considering they frequently release 4-6 plastic kits for launches, etc.

2) Support this with a line of FW alternate pieces, weapons, bits, and eventually some FW-only produced "side" titans and knights.

The only "win" I could see coming from this is if FW are smart and build a small shopping cart on their page allowing you to purchase a titan the exact way you want it (i.e.e click through choosing legs, body, carapace, arms, etc.). As a solely resin, solely FW product I think this will fail to meet expectations - sadly that could lead to them saying "Well, no one wants to play Epic" and never releasing non-Titan or non-HH materials for the game.

If the rules are sound enough though people will run with it - playing with old Epic models or buying up the bajillions of alternate company models out there for Epic.
   
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 Alpharius wrote:
 Silent Puffin? wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:

Not really if the starter only has rules and plastic scenery as originally planned.


That would be an excellent way to kill the game stone dead.


Exactly!

Games being sold in GW stores are going to have plastic models - almost guaranteed!

FW's designers have said this is being planned as an extension of the Horus Heresy series. While the plastics they've sold for HH has certainly helped, FW was successful with that series for several years selling only resin and books through their online store. I don't think this approach means its automatically dead. That attitude was similar to what people had with the HH series... Just because its dead for you, doesn't mean its gonna fail; it just means you're not the target customer.

Specialist Games was established and FW was moved under it so FW could be supported with plastic producing capabilities... not necessarily just so FW could support a plastic game with resin kits. This isn't to say that won't happen. This isn't to say some games can't be one way, while other games are the other. Terrain for these games with specialized terrain was one of the things used as an example of what they wanted to do. Things can always change, but GW's history shows them to be very risk adverse. Producing a full plastic game right away, it is a lot of risk. They will likely try to establish a player base selling resin kits and if its popular enough then produce a plastic game.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/08 20:05:52


 
   
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 aka_mythos wrote:

GW's history shows them to be very risk adverse. Producing a full plastic game right away, it is a lot of risk.


GW have always produced full plastic games, well not all ways but from the late 80's onwards, including Adeptus Titanicus with its plastic beetlebacks. Given the noise that the news of this impending re-release has garnered as well as the resources that GW have apparently allocated to this project they would be mad to not release plastics Warlords at very least.

What games have not had plastics on release in the last 20 years? Aeronautica Imperialis is the only one that I can think of.

I can see Knights and possibly Warhounds in resin as well as the inevitable upgrades and variants but GW would be foolish not to do some core plastics. Plastic kits are a much better base for conversions and variant kits after all....

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 Silent Puffin? wrote:
 aka_mythos wrote:

GW's history shows them to be very risk adverse. Producing a full plastic game right away, it is a lot of risk.


GW have always produced full plastic games, well not all ways but from the late 80's onwards, including Adeptus Titanicus with its plastic beetlebacks. Given the noise that the news of this impending re-release has garnered as well as the resources that GW have apparently allocated to this project they would be mad to not release plastics Warlords at very least.

What games have not had plastics on release in the last 20 years? Aeronautica Imperialis is the only one that I can think of.

I can see Knights and possibly Warhounds in resin as well as the inevitable upgrades and variants but GW would be foolish not to do some core plastics. Plastic kits are a much better base for conversions and variant kits after all....
Let me be more specific... producing a game in plastic built around a 40k - Knight sized kit... that's a lot more risk than GW probably wants to take. Between the Warlord titan and a terrain set... you're looking at using the plastic production capacity equivalent to producing 7 or more different blood bowls teams all at once. Blood Bowls initial release and its next two waves won't even use of that kind of resources and that games been a big success.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/08 20:23:17


 
   
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 aka_mythos wrote:
 Silent Puffin? wrote:
 aka_mythos wrote:

GW's history shows them to be very risk adverse. Producing a full plastic game right away, it is a lot of risk.


GW have always produced full plastic games, well not all ways but from the late 80's onwards, including Adeptus Titanicus with its plastic beetlebacks. Given the noise that the news of this impending re-release has garnered as well as the resources that GW have apparently allocated to this project they would be mad to not release plastics Warlords at very least.

What games have not had plastics on release in the last 20 years? Aeronautica Imperialis is the only one that I can think of.

I can see Knights and possibly Warhounds in resin as well as the inevitable upgrades and variants but GW would be foolish not to do some core plastics. Plastic kits are a much better base for conversions and variant kits after all....
Let me be more specific... producing a game in plastic built around a 40k - Knight sized kit... that's a lot more risk than GW probably wants to take. Between the Warlord titan and a terrain set... you're looking at using the plastic production capacity equivalent to producing 7 or more different blood bowls teams all at once. Blood Bowls initial release and its next two waves won't even use of that kind of resources and that games been a big success.


Blood Bowl's an aberration. Its popularity comes from the video games and third party support for event organization and miniatures.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/08 20:29:51


   
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Let me be more specific... producing a game in plastic built around a 40k - Knight sized kit...


A Warlord will be smaller than a Knight and plastic terrain can be made much more cheaply than models, it could even be outsourced. I predict 2 Warlords and 2-4 Reavers per box which will probably be around the £150 mark. Even if the game is absolute arse it will still well due to nostalgia and because big center piece models tend to.

I am 95% sure that this will have plastics due to the very strong precedent and because it will probably be a boxed game.

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SeanDrake wrote:
 Alpharius wrote:
"going into GW stores" lends more weight to the 'plastic Titans are a *must*!" side of things!


Not really if the starter only has rules and plastic scenery as originally planned.


That would be an amazingly terrible idea..

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Well, yes, I know right?

Can't wait for more details!!!

   
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 Silent Puffin? wrote:
 aka_mythos wrote:

Let me be more specific... producing a game in plastic built around a 40k - Knight sized kit...


A Warlord will be smaller than a Knight and plastic terrain can be made much more cheaply than models, it could even be outsourced. I predict 2 Warlords and 2-4 Reavers per box which will probably be around the £150 mark. Even if the game is absolute arse it will still well due to nostalgia and because big center piece models tend to.

I am 95% sure that this will have plastics due to the very strong precedent and because it will probably be a boxed game.

Maybe it will be plastic, but FW's original perspective was that the models would all be resin, with only the terrain being plastic. Things can change and I certainly hope they do.
The game was said to be "8mm scale". The Warlord titan was originally said to be "about 6 inches tall"... a Warlord titan whether scaled based on its canonical height or based on the 40k scale model, a Warlord titan ends up just over 6 inches tall in the 8mm scale. A 40k-scale Imperial Knight Paladin is just over 6 inches tall, thus the comparison of an 8mm scale Warlord being the same as a 40k scale Imperial Knight.

Like I said things can change, more recently we have rumors saying a Warlord was seen as about 5" tall, which is the equivalent to an 8mm scale Reaver or a 6mm scale Warlord titan. It contradicts what we previously heard, so things are likely in flux.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 infinite_array wrote:
 aka_mythos wrote:
Let me be more specific... producing a game in plastic built around a 40k - Knight sized kit... that's a lot more risk than GW probably wants to take. Between the Warlord titan and a terrain set... you're looking at using the plastic production capacity equivalent to producing 7 or more different blood bowls teams all at once. Blood Bowls initial release and its next two waves won't even use of that kind of resources and that games been a big success.


Blood Bowl's an aberration. Its popularity comes from the video games and third party support for event organization and miniatures.
I agree, I think Blood Bowl was a bit of an aberration, but I think it did have a relatively strong preestablished following separate of the video game too. Its hard to believe that Adeptus Titanicus would get so substantially more support than Blood Bowl. If Adeptus Titanicus gets an equal amount of initial support, Adeptus Titanicus can get 2 maybe 3 basic sized sprues... that is just about covers the games need for terrain. Its only if we consider the plastic support of the first 3 waves of Blood Bowl kits together that Adeptus Titancus gets the sort of resources to address the need for a Warlord and that assumes no terrain.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/02/08 21:33:50


 
   
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 aka_mythos wrote:
FW was successful with that series for several years selling only resin and books
"FW successful" is one thing. Plastic miniatures at reasonable prices is a very different level of successful.
 Silent Puffin? wrote:
still well due to nostalgia
This is always a losing bet. The winning bet is, attracting new customers without alienating existing ones.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/08 22:06:16


   
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 Manchu wrote:
 Silent Puffin? wrote:
still well due to nostalgia
This is always a losing bet. The winning bet is, attracting new customers without alienating existing ones.


In this instance nostaliga is a small component of the whole.

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 aka_mythos wrote:

Like I said things can change, more recently we have rumors saying a Warlord was seen as about 5" tall, which is the equivalent to an 8mm scale Reaver or a 6mm scale Warlord titan. It contradicts what we previously heard, so things are likely in flux.


If FW did try different scales before settling on 8mm, is it possible that the smaller Warlord was a test for a smaller scale?
   
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All the talk of this still being in flux, and struggling to get a release window doesn't make it sound like GW are fully invested in the game. That can only mean bad things. Specialist games died in the first place due to lack of support.

Also a starter set with only two titans in? If that's the case then they will have made the titans too big, and missed the whole point of epic. I never meet anyone that played epic for small scale skirmishes, the advantage of the scale is that you can field a massive army, but still get a game done in an evening.
Even 5 titans a side sounds a bit small compared to where AT always shone.

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I only really want the rectangles upon rectangles of tiny dudes and swarms of tanks that I stupidly never bought when I was young and got sucked into the miniature addict life. In my defense, the local toy and comic stores only carried a few Epic models each and they got discontinued alltogether soon after.

Okay, a few small scale plastic Knights, sure, they can be huge combat servitors after a few mods.

As a game focused only on big machines an approach similiar to X-Wing and its boosters would make sense, wouldn't it. Each Titan should be a a mini-expansion and a chance to drastically mix up your playstyle. As much as I hate spammed units in bigger games (which is why I never could run most of 40k's new formation heavy "competetive" lists) in skirmish -heck, maybe duel- games its even worse. New rules being added through models (and a compendium later) instead of waiting for a new edition. No prebuilt or painted models, of course.

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 Tamereth wrote:
All the talk of this still being in flux, and struggling to get a release window doesn't make it sound like GW are fully invested in the game. That can only mean bad things. Specialist games died in the first place due to lack of support.


It's more likely a symptom that this whole concept was brought about in short order (possibly by the new CEO) and wasn't planned sufficiently in advance to allow full integration. We have already heard that GW were surprised by BB's success, and one thing GW, old or nu, can be relied on is to chase something that they think will make them a buck hard.



Also a starter set with only two titans in? If that's the case then they will have made the titans too big, and missed the whole point of epic. I never meet anyone that played epic for small scale skirmishes, the advantage of the scale is that you can field a massive army, but still get a game done in an evening.
Even 5 titans a side sounds a bit small compared to where AT always shone.


It's a starter, and it's coming with a bunch of plastic terrain. If one titan a side is enough to allow the game to be played, and get people excited to go further, it'll do its job. If it offers the content at a good enough price that players have a reason to buy multiples, it'll go great guns.

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It's also a game that requires only one model to play, generally 3 and upto 6... and they want you to buy more than just Warlords.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
GoatboyBeta wrote:
If FW did try different scales before settling on 8mm, is it possible that the smaller Warlord was a test for a smaller scale?
I think this is a very real possibility and a likely source for the discrepancies.

Manchu wrote:
 aka_mythos wrote:
FW was successful with that series for several years selling only resin and books
"FW successful" is one thing. Plastic miniatures at reasonable prices is a very different level of successful.
Very true. I believe AT could be that successful... but I think GW is too risk averse.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/09 01:11:50


 
   
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What I suspect is box set will have a few really nice pieces of terrain you can't really get more of, 2 opposing but mediocre titans, and the other normal stuff. Then some amazingly awesome titans will be the first release and they will be priced like a Land Raider.
That's my prediction. I hope it's not true but come on... it's GW.. they're fairly predictable with this sort of thing. It's either this or a bunch of repackaged stuff... which is almost guaranteed not to be the case. I mean.. they did re-release models from about the same era as the original AT.. but still..

   
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Well if they go full resin i will buy the starter box and wait until Vanguard come with 6mm uhm variants and use my old titans

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If I was in charge, I'd have two Warhounds plus either a Reaver or Warlord in the starter (whatever balanced best.)

Then I'd have plastics of the three main chassis with a set loadout, and make a fortune on a bajillion customizable bits for the Titans (heads, weapons, armour sets etc..) as well as the various Knight variants.

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 MLaw wrote:
What I suspect is box set will have a few really nice pieces of terrain you can't really get more of, 2 opposing but mediocre titans, and the other normal stuff. Then some amazingly awesome titans will be the first release and they will be priced like a Land Raider.
That's my prediction. I hope it's not true but come on... it's GW.. they're fairly predictable with this sort of thing. It's either this or a bunch of repackaged stuff... which is almost guaranteed not to be the case. I mean.. they did re-release models from about the same era as the original AT.. but still..


You might be right on the price (a Warlord at/around Land Raider pricing), but the rest of this post is almost 100% guaranteed to be wrong...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/02/09 02:04:14


   
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 Azreal13 wrote:
Then I'd have plastics of the three main chassis with a set loadout, and make a fortune on a bajillion customizable bits for the Titans (heads, weapons, armour sets etc..) as well as the various Knight variants.


Wouldn't it just be more economical to do the main three chassis in plastic (with basic default weaponry) and then have all the extra equipment and ancillaries come out in resin?

After all ignoring Knights of varying description, there are really only three models for this: Warlord, Warhound, Reaver. Rather than hampering the game with making resin versions of these, you have 3 moulds - one for each - and as everything in the game revolves around them you can just keep making them.

In a way it's a bit like the plastic Imperial and Chaos cruisers from Battlefleet Gothic.

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Didn't Az basically say just that?

Unless I'm missing your point?

Eventually, I think we will get the 3 main Titan chassis in plastic, with a lot of resin add-ons and weirdo-variants.

   
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AT, released in store without models in the box set, is asking for a very poor commercial launch.

If GW wants to put the game in GW stores, then a cheap-ish starting Army is a must.

In light of the rumors that the Warlord is complete, but Warhound and Reaver are yet to be done, perhaps there is a clear path. Make the Warhound and Reaver plastic kits. They'd for the base of any army. The Warlord itself would be a resin kit.

This would work for expansions too, Forgeworld can produce more interesting Warlord class Titans, in resin, while GW only produces the most common titan class for armies.

A lot remains to be seen. I am waiting to see the various superheavies make the list, but that might be years down the road.
   
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 Alpharius wrote:
Didn't Az basically say just that?

Unless I'm missing your point?

Eventually, I think we will get the 3 main Titan chassis in plastic, with a lot of resin add-ons and weirdo-variants.


It is what I meant but I didn't actually specify all the extra bits were to be resin, you were supposed to mind read that part.

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