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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
If that covers the three Titan types, in plastic, then that's a fantastic thing. Then they can release the plastic Titans in boxes, and everything else can be resin accessories.

Yeah, that would be perfect!

 Yodhrin wrote:

I'm sorry but that's a pretty disingenuous comparison and you must know that. Plenty of people who couldn't afford an all-resin FW army(or merely didn't want to spend that much on one project) when that was all that was on offer could still play Heresy games using the vast array of existing SM plastic kits for a fraction of the resin cost, or even ones they already owned. Without those extra players lots of local Heresy groups wouldn't have been sustainable, and I doubt it would ever have reached the critical mass necessary to justify FW's rapid expansion of the range and the eventual Heresy-specific plastic releases.

Its not disingenuous its economics. Its their business model and I'm speaking from the perspective of their corporate well being and not my desires as a consumer. In many ways it was a threshold of performance that determined the viability of plastic support. GW could support Adeptus Titanicus with plastics right away but without an established customer base for this game specifically its a much bigger risk. The level of success FW selling it as resin only has to achieve and GW selling it in plastic has to achieve are orders of magnitude apart.

 Yodhrin wrote:

FW made flyers for years, they only became a big deal when GW put them in plastic. FW made superheavies for years, they only became a big deal when GW put them in plastic. FW make Guard models that are far, far, exponentially far better than the plastic Cadians, but what are most Guard armies made up of?

Forgeworld was successful for years and that success provided the necessary data points to establish the viability of those products in plastic. FW by being this low volume, high quality, boutique studio allows them to test the waters for GW. This is a track record of that. While I think GW has been much bolder under Roundtree as CEO to change this product progression cycle would make how they restructured that part of the company meaningless. Maybe they changed their mind about so much, but if they did its a large expense they've had to swallow to do it.

 Yodhrin wrote:

The Heresy is not the pattern, it is the aberration, the one FW product with the right combination of quality, fluff, and accessibility through the existing Marine line to take off without requiring GW to put in a specific investment in plastic kits first. Anecdote is just that, obviously, but I know several people who own whole Heresy armies in resin now who only got into the thing in the first place because they could buy a couple of resin models from FW to add some flavour to their initial attempts at Heresy gaming using the 40K Marine plastics - they built their all-resin armies over time, but they only got involved in the first place because they didn't have to wait to play the game "properly" with actual models while they did so.

No, the Badab War was the aberration and the Horus Heresy series built off of that as a model of how to move forward. The FW game developers have said as much. The Badab War was a prototype to see if a different approach would work, and while the Horus Heresy series has eclipsed it, the relatively low threshold for success allowed it to succeed and for FW to learn from it.

That said while you can say people substituting plastic miniatures for the resin FW models contributed to its success as a game and as a community, it didn't contribute to the financial measure of FW's success and that's the determining factor that moved GW to produce plastics to support it.

The topic of marketing dynamics between FW and GW is probably best spun off into its own thread. Thanks!

Well, for being a thread about a "niche game", this is surely getting a lot of traction.

In four days we already reached 10 pages.

I think there is a so much excitement in large part because GW has shown an interest in making cool stuff at more affordable prices lately.

The tension in this situation is, with FW in the picture it may just be another case of cool, unaffordable stuff.

Copying the awesome, but salty rumor over to the new page

krazynadechukr wrote:
So, I just spoke to my GW manager last night (friend of 10+ years), who was recently in London and also the Heresy event. (He has given me solid info on rumors in the past like before AoS was widely known, Deathwatch heads up, and so on, including Cypher coming back...) Anyway, he says that inside Adeptus Titanicus starter box it will contain 6 plastic models (2 large, 2 medium, 2 small) with options, along with several new dice, a rulebook, several reference cards, counters, ruler stick thing, and (it looked like) 8 easy to assemble pieces of heavy card stock scenery that had plastic like borders for the cards to clip into, representing battle torn futuristic buildings. The rulebook contains rules for different types of gameplay, including basic skirmishes of 1 on 1 as well as massive battles for dozens against dozens. There is a large detailed Campaign too and stand alone scenarios. Several (or a dozen?) boxed sets are planned to also be coming out, so you can add to your Adeptus Titanicus army, at and after, general release of the boxed starter! As always, digest with some salt.

Oh, and it might be $149.99 USD for the starter....

GW, take note, this is what the people want! They'd sell tons...

Vintersorg wrote:
Well, for being a thread about a "niche game", this is surely getting a lot of traction.

In four days we already reached 10 pages.

Well, apart from Titans, Epic was one of the big three many years ago and was for over 10 years. Even after it got Epic40k'd, it remained popular. That's a lot of vets who would be potentially interested.

 zedmeister wrote:

Vintersorg wrote:
Well, for being a thread about a "niche game", this is surely getting a lot of traction.

In four days we already reached 10 pages.

Well, apart from Titans, Epic was one of the big three many years ago and was for over 10 years. Even after it got Epic40k'd, it remained popular. That's a lot of vets who would be potentially interested.

Absolutely!

"Epic Scale" is really the best scale to show what war in 40K is all about - and lets all the really cool things show up in a setting that makes sense.

So while I want this to do well on its own, I'd love for it to 'show' GW that this scale wargame is a good thing to do - again!

Vintersorg wrote:
Well, for being a thread about a "niche game", this is surely getting a lot of traction.

In four days we already reached 10 pages.

The title mentioned Epic 40k until page 9.. so a lot of us who were excited about the return of Epic popped in. IF the latest rumor is true.. I might buy the starter set anyway since the titans are in fact usable and I already have Orks for Epic.. so I would basically score more epic stuff + scenery.. That's not terrible if I'm honest. It would make me need to look for more anti-armor units for my Waaagh though as most of my Waaagh is a tad more anti-troop. Guess I need to figure out who makes not-Epic greenskin stuff now :/

 RiTides wrote:
Copying the awesome, but salty rumor over to the new page

krazynadechukr wrote:
So, I just spoke to my GW manager last night (friend of 10+ years), who was recently in London and also the Heresy event. (He has given me solid info on rumors in the past like before AoS was widely known, Deathwatch heads up, and so on, including Cypher coming back...) Anyway, he says that inside Adeptus Titanicus starter box it will contain 6 plastic models (2 large, 2 medium, 2 small) with options, along with several new dice, a rulebook, several reference cards, counters, ruler stick thing, and (it looked like) 8 easy to assemble pieces of heavy card stock scenery that had plastic like borders for the cards to clip into, representing battle torn futuristic buildings. The rulebook contains rules for different types of gameplay, including basic skirmishes of 1 on 1 as well as massive battles for dozens against dozens. There is a large detailed Campaign too and stand alone scenarios. Several (or a dozen?) boxed sets are planned to also be coming out, so you can add to your Adeptus Titanicus army, at and after, general release of the boxed starter! As always, digest with some salt.

Oh, and it might be $149.99 USD for the starter....

GW, take note, this is what the people want! They'd sell tons...

This rumour is directly at odds with what Atia said earlier, so I'm out to the store for some mortons.

 Alpharius wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:

Vintersorg wrote:
Well, for being a thread about a "niche game", this is surely getting a lot of traction.

In four days we already reached 10 pages.

Well, apart from Titans, Epic was one of the big three many years ago and was for over 10 years. Even after it got Epic40k'd, it remained popular. That's a lot of vets who would be potentially interested.

Absolutely!

"Epic Scale" is really the best scale to show what war in 40K is all about - and lets all the really cool things show up in a setting that makes sense.

So while I want this to do well on its own, I'd love for it to 'show' GW that this scale wargame is a good thing to do - again!

I can't agree with this more.. I really truly hope they bring Epic in eventually to fill the mass battle niche they keep trying to force on 40k and allow 40k to relax back down to the scale I fell in love with it at..

 MLaw wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:

Vintersorg wrote:
Well, for being a thread about a "niche game", this is surely getting a lot of traction.

In four days we already reached 10 pages.

Well, apart from Titans, Epic was one of the big three many years ago and was for over 10 years. Even after it got Epic40k'd, it remained popular. That's a lot of vets who would be potentially interested.

Absolutely!

"Epic Scale" is really the best scale to show what war in 40K is all about - and lets all the really cool things show up in a setting that makes sense.

So while I want this to do well on its own, I'd love for it to 'show' GW that this scale wargame is a good thing to do - again!

I can't agree with this more.. I really truly hope they bring Epic in eventually to fill the mass battle niche they keep trying to force on 40k and allow 40k to relax back down to the scale I fell in love with it at..

Amen to that brother - Amen!

 Alpharius wrote:

"Epic Scale" is really the best scale to show what war in 40K is all about - and lets all the really cool things show up in a setting that makes sense.

So while I want this to do well on its own, I'd love for it to 'show' GW that this scale wargame is a good thing to do - again!

I agree, but its always important to consider how inconsistent the scaling for the original Epic was. If the Titan had been properly to scale with epic infantry a Warlord would have been the size of a 40k scale Dreadknight. Without acknowledging that imperfection or addressing it, "epic scale" is a fiction.

Its important that going forward an Epic game is to a proper and consistent scale or else there will always be the inclination to make 40k the venue to see how big things are to each other, and that will continue the insistence on 40k being overly epic-ized.

Honestly?

I don't really care too much about the nitty gritty scale discussion and/or where they end up - so long as GW brings back an "Epic Scale" game that allows us to play a game that is really similar to Space Marine/Titan Legions/Epic!

It would have been nice if they stuck with their version of 6mm, but as long as we're back walking on this particular road again, I'm happy!

 aka_mythos wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

"Epic Scale" is really the best scale to show what war in 40K is all about - and lets all the really cool things show up in a setting that makes sense.

So while I want this to do well on its own, I'd love for it to 'show' GW that this scale wargame is a good thing to do - again!

I agree, but its always important to consider how inconsistent the scaling for the original Epic was. If the Titan had been properly to scale with epic infantry a Warlord would have been the size of a 40k scale Dreadknight. Without acknowledging that imperfection or addressing it, "epic scale" is a fiction.

Its important that going forward an Epic game is to a proper and consistent scale or else there will always be the inclination to make 40k the venue to see how big things are to each other, and that will continue the insistence on 40k being overly epic-ized.

While I kind of agree with this, implying that 40k has their scale right is really not something I can agree with. As a point of fact, if this were the case then Tru-Scale wouldn't be a thing. Most of the vehicles in 40k are so badly oversized that debates about using real world models that are supposed to be the correct scale are a fairly common occurence. Let's not even get started on the size of weapons, equipment, and ordnance in 40k scale. In the end they are games. The importance of the 100% accurate scale is debatable I suppose but for me as long as most of the big things are similar in size across the armies and the infantry are similar in size, I don't think I could care less if they're perfectly scaled. I've played numerous games of Epic and the disparity of scale has never interfered with our ability to enjoy the game. Likewise, it has never cause any rules disputes.

The 40k heroic scale is itself rather inconsistent, but things like Titans, Forge World has attempted to maintain some consistency. The FW 40k Warlord is the correct height for a 28mm scaled Warlord based on it canonical height.

Man... I just want this to blow up as much a Bloodbowl did, or moreso, because I want GW to get a vote of confidence large enough to commit to infantry, vehicles, etc...

Epic, or the iteration of it that looked like full out war/battles in the 40k universe (with all types of units) was one of the images in my head when I wanted to get into table-top games. I missed it by a few years, and to get a second chance to make a serious go at it, and help build a local community, would be tremendous.

I'll definitely file it and Mordheim under "dream games" to see formally re-issued, and supported anew.

And I don't see any reason why people can't just use the old 6 mm miniatures with the new rules.

In that way, the game is even more realistic and "proportionate". A giant laser cannon or a missile system should at least have a range of a dozen of kilometers. Not reach just half way to the table.

If both opponents use the same scale, the problem doesn't exist.

krazynadechukr wrote:This just came out the other day - from Andy Hoare, Mark Bedford and Chris Drew -

Spoiler:

8mm was deemed the best as you could see the details to the point of telling different armour marks apart

Well as long as the decision was based on something important.

Alpharius wrote:
I don't really care too much about the nitty gritty scale discussion and/or where they end up - so long as GW brings back an "Epic Scale" game that allows us to play a game that is really similar to Space Marine/Titan Legions/Epic!

I can't remember, Alf. Were you the one who said they were selling their big Epic armies a few pages back? (Not sarcastic; genuine question)

I dunno. I feel tired. Never fails to amaze me how people need GW to 'bring something back' before they'll touch it, although I've seen it for years in relation to Epic. I am interested to see any new, plastic titans, at a size closer to what they should have been, don't doubt that. But in the meantime we've had people beavering away on Netepic, NetE:A etc., and Vanguard, Onslaught, etc. ramping up production... does it leave folk completely cold? Still, Epic hasn't really been anywhere that it needs to be brought back from. You don't need a GW sticker to allow you to play a game that is really similar to Space Marine/Titan Legions/Epic.
That's my beef, including all the brouhaha over scale. GW are putting this out to make money, sure, but it also seems engineered to hobble alternate 6mm sellers and anyone who thought of supporting them. (Even with several assertions that this game is 'just titans', there are still plenty of posters with visions of 8mm infantry armies dancing in front of their eyes) Then if this tanks thanks to GW's business-as-usual (far from a sure thing but not inconceivable - I remember Aeronautica Imperialis as an FW game that was popular until it wasn't) there'll be a lot breast-beating about how a lack of Adeptus Titanicus in the local store or club means that 6(-8)mm games are impossible...

I sadly/unfortunately sold off all my Epic stuff years and years ago - and yes, I still regret it.

That's one of the reasons I'm hoping that this leads to an Epic Revival, in some way, shape or form!

 Vermis wrote:

krazynadechukr wrote:This just came out the other day - from Andy Hoare, Mark Bedford and Chris Drew -

Spoiler:

8mm was deemed the best as you could see the details to the point of telling different armour marks apart

Well as long as the decision was based on something important.

Alpharius wrote:
I don't really care too much about the nitty gritty scale discussion and/or where they end up - so long as GW brings back an "Epic Scale" game that allows us to play a game that is really similar to Space Marine/Titan Legions/Epic!

I can't remember, Alf. Were you the one who said they were selling their big Epic armies a few pages back? (Not sarcastic; genuine question)

I dunno. I feel tired. Never fails to amaze me how people need GW to 'bring something back' before they'll touch it, although I've seen it for years in relation to Epic. I am interested to see any new, plastic titans, at a size closer to what they should have been, don't doubt that. But in the meantime we've had people beavering away on Netepic, NetE:A etc., and Vanguard, Onslaught, etc. ramping up production... does it leave folk completely cold? Still, Epic hasn't really been anywhere that it needs to be brought back from. You don't need a GW sticker to allow you to play a game that is really similar to Space Marine/Titan Legions/Epic.
That's my beef, including all the brouhaha over scale. GW are putting this out to make money, sure, but it also seems engineered to hobble alternate 6mm sellers and anyone who thought of supporting them. (Even with several assertions that this game is 'just titans', there are still plenty of posters with visions of 8mm infantry armies dancing in front of their eyes) Then if this tanks thanks to GW's business-as-usual (far from a sure thing but not inconceivable - I remember Aeronautica Imperialis as an FW game that was popular until it wasn't) there'll be a lot breast-beating about how a lack of Adeptus Titanicus in the local store or club means that 6(-8)mm games are impossible...

Not this guy..
I've got Mordheim going with my kids
Epic is another story because it's really difficult to pin down the rules and people that know them and want to play. I'm also the type that will play 2nd ed or other previous editions of 40k when possible. Never played anything past 5th. I did try but it's just too bloated and a couple of things that cut across the grain of previous editions..

Anyway.. Adeptus Titanicus as it's own game could be cool. Compatibility and terrain. That's the sweet spot. Again though.. if people missed it.. according to the first page, this is NOT a revival of Epic. It could lead there but it's not what this is.

I really hope that rumour is true, six plastic titans is more than I expected, I will defiantly be making a purchase if that is the case and more to the point, plenty of other people will too.

I have such fond memories of adeptus titanicus, it was my first GW game, I just hope they do the rules justice as well, it was a cracking ruleset.

 MLaw wrote:

 Vermis wrote:

krazynadechukr wrote:This just came out the other day - from Andy Hoare, Mark Bedford and Chris Drew -

Spoiler:

8mm was deemed the best as you could see the details to the point of telling different armour marks apart

Well as long as the decision was based on something important.

Alpharius wrote:
I don't really care too much about the nitty gritty scale discussion and/or where they end up - so long as GW brings back an "Epic Scale" game that allows us to play a game that is really similar to Space Marine/Titan Legions/Epic!

I can't remember, Alf. Were you the one who said they were selling their big Epic armies a few pages back? (Not sarcastic; genuine question)

I dunno. I feel tired. Never fails to amaze me how people need GW to 'bring something back' before they'll touch it, although I've seen it for years in relation to Epic. I am interested to see any new, plastic titans, at a size closer to what they should have been, don't doubt that. But in the meantime we've had people beavering away on Netepic, NetE:A etc., and Vanguard, Onslaught, etc. ramping up production... does it leave folk completely cold? Still, Epic hasn't really been anywhere that it needs to be brought back from. You don't need a GW sticker to allow you to play a game that is really similar to Space Marine/Titan Legions/Epic.
That's my beef, including all the brouhaha over scale. GW are putting this out to make money, sure, but it also seems engineered to hobble alternate 6mm sellers and anyone who thought of supporting them. (Even with several assertions that this game is 'just titans', there are still plenty of posters with visions of 8mm infantry armies dancing in front of their eyes) Then if this tanks thanks to GW's business-as-usual (far from a sure thing but not inconceivable - I remember Aeronautica Imperialis as an FW game that was popular until it wasn't) there'll be a lot breast-beating about how a lack of Adeptus Titanicus in the local store or club means that 6(-8)mm games are impossible...

Not this guy..
I've got Mordheim going with my kids
Epic is another story because it's really difficult to pin down the rules and people that know them and want to play. I'm also the type that will play 2nd ed or other previous editions of 40k when possible. Never played anything past 5th. I did try but it's just too bloated and a couple of things that cut across the grain of previous editions..

Anyway.. Adeptus Titanicus as it's own game could be cool. Compatibility and terrain. That's the sweet spot. Again though.. if people missed it.. according to the first page, this is NOT a revival of Epic. It could lead there but it's not what this is.

Right from Andy Hoare, Mark Bedford and Chris Drew (creating this game) at the Horus Heresy event - "Down the road infantry and tanks are to be introduced. Other forces are also possible, this includes Xenos which can be introduced in a themed expansion, e.g. Adeptus Titanicus: Armageddon to bring in the Orks. "

Let's hope!

There is an assumption that the rumors would refer to Warlord, Reaver, and Warhound Titans, but the FW designers early on said they were planning some more intermediate classes of Titans. It is probably safe to assume it would be the 3 classic titan patterns just because they already have the digital models and anything "new" will require them to design in the 40k scale and down size it, if the want to maintain the quality.


As an aside the prospect of a 10 inch tall Imperator Titan would be awesome. Even if FW doesn't make one you know people will make their own.

 aka_mythos wrote:
There is an assumption that the rumors would refer to Warlord, Reaver, and Warhound Titans, but the FW designers early on said they were planning some more intermediate classes of Titans. It is probably safe to assume it would be the 3 classic titan patterns just because they already have the digital models and anything "new" will require them to design in the 40k scale and down size it, if the want to maintain the quality.


As an aside the prospect of a 10 inch tall Imperator Titan would be awesome. Even if FW doesn't make one you know people will make their own.

TBH, I would expect something closer to 2 knights or warhounds and a Reaver.

RE:krazynadechukr - I did see that but right under it is the bit where they seemingly rule it out.. As it stands though, planning on seeing Epic at this point to me would be putting the cart before the horse. I do winder, if they go that route, if they would place more emphasis on flyers than the older version. If not, it would be really odd, seeing as how much they've integrated them into 40k..

krazynadechukr wrote:


Right from Andy Hoare, Mark Bedford and Chris Drew (creating this game) at the Horus Heresy event - "Down the road infantry and tanks are to be introduced. Other forces are also possible, this includes Xenos which can be introduced in a themed expansion, e.g. Adeptus Titanicus: Armageddon to bring in the Orks. "

Let's hope!

Thats how Epic started in the first place.

 aka_mythos wrote:
There is an assumption that the rumors would refer to Warlord, Reaver, and Warhound Titans, but the FW designers early on said they were planning some more intermediate classes of Titans. It is probably safe to assume it would be the 3 classic titan patterns just because they already have the digital models and anything "new" will require them to design in the 40k scale and down size it, if the want to maintain the quality.

If the Warlord is six inches tall, I kinda doubt the starter would include two of them + four smaller titans + scenery. If the rumour is true, I find it much more likely that the two 'big' titans are Reavers and the smaller ones are Warhounds and/or knights.

Or that the warlord size is a little smaller (other recent rumors say Leviathan dreadnought sized) and then it would work. Maybe 2 Warlords and 4 Knights (2 bigger ones like Cerastus). Who knows, but I'm guessing the Warlord is going to be their focus - certainly not the Reaver!

 RiTides wrote:
Or that the warlord size is a little smaller (other recent rumors say Leviathan dreadnought sized) and then it would work. Maybe 2 Warlords and 4 Knights (2 bigger ones like Cerastus). Who knows, but I'm guessing the Warlord is going to be their focus - certainly not the Reaver!

Right, everyone will want a Warlord. So it makes financial sense to sell it separately at higher price rather than put it in the starter set.

Not if you're going by demand - i.e. the Knight kit and everyone wants several at least! I still think only the main box is likely to be plastic, and the Warlord lends itself to that better than anything imo.