what piece of 40k fluff do you hate the most?

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**Mr Morden**

The Grey Knights Codex - pretty much all of it.

The Dark Angels - loved them when Deathwatch was started - but now them being borderline traitors emo-ing about the galaxy - anything anything new is revealed about the Lion he just seems more of a complete dick.

Space Wolves - Space Vikings - ok - thats cool - no now its McWolfy Wolf Wolf on his Wolf with his Wolf sword and Wolf necklace howling like a Wolf

**Ynneadwraith**

Mr Morden wrote:
The Grey Knights Codex - pretty much all of it.

The Dark Angels - loved them when Deathwatch was started - but now them being borderline traitors emo-ing about the galaxy - anything anything new is revealed about the Lion he just seems more of a complete dick.

Space Wolves - Space Vikings - ok - thats cool - no now its McWolfy Wolf Wolf on his Wolf with his Wolf sword and Wolf necklace howling like a Wolf

If you want to see just the sheer potential missed by the official Space Wolves fluff check this out: https://ironsleet.com/category/vlka-fenryka/

**Mr Morden**

Always cool to read that bit of 13th warrior prose!

Some nice models there as well

**deathmagiks**

Maximus Bitch wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

deathmagiks wrote:
realizing the shard of the Eldar god of war, the literal incarnation of the wrath of an entire species, is basically a yellow shirt away from being a Klingon and wielding a bat'leth.

what do you mean?

I mean the Eldar Avatar of Khaine is the 40k incarnation of the Worf trope from Star Trek: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect

The only time the Avatar seems to show up is to show how dire the situation is via sacrificing itself immediately to the enemy.

**Sentinel1**

The legacy of man's predicament in the 40k because the Emperor won the Horus Heresy for all the wrong reasons and became everything he had once fought to deny. Now he is worshipped as a God whilst man is incapable of holding the Imperium together. There is never any good news for the Imperium, success is either a delay here or at the cost of that sector over there.

**chromedog**

It started with changing the marines into crusading space knightly orders and went downhill from there.

**Xca|iber**

Mr Morden wrote:
The Grey Knights Codex - pretty much all of it.

The Dark Angels - loved them when Deathwatch was started - but now them being borderline traitors emo-ing about the galaxy - anything anything new is revealed about the Lion he just seems more of a complete dick.

Space Wolves - Space Vikings - ok - thats cool - no now its McWolfy Wolf Wolf on his Wolf with his Wolf sword and Wolf necklace howling like a Wolf

^ These are all up there for me.

For the GK, it's especially bad with the named characters. Even the ones that had a neat gimmick in-game (Thawn/Mordrak) were strangely out of left field for the GK themes. I much preferred the faction was just a chapter of anti-daemon specialists operating under the Inquisition. The new models are still good though.

DA and SW are big victims of Flanderization. Ironically, this has been worsened by the "super srs bizness" direction of the fluff in recent years, since it makes their OTT traits even more ridiculous (in a bad way).

On a different subject, I'm also not a huge fan of the Newcrons. I liked them as the complementary "monolithic bad-guy" to the Tyranids. Now they're just another empire like the Imperium, Orks, Eldar, and Tau.

**Dakka Wolf**

Ynneadwraith wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
The Grey Knights Codex - pretty much all of it.

The Dark Angels - loved them when Deathwatch was started - but now them being borderline traitors emo-ing about the galaxy - anything anything new is revealed about the Lion he just seems more of a complete dick.

Space Wolves - Space Vikings - ok - thats cool - no now its McWolfy Wolf Wolf on his Wolf with his Wolf sword and Wolf necklace howling like a Wolf

If you want to see just the sheer potential missed by the official Space Wolves fluff check this out: https://ironsleet.com/category/vlka-fenryka/

I want that guy writing the next Space Wolves Codex fluff and re-naming the units.
You sir may have an exulting just for that link.

**Vintersorg**

Space Marines.

The fact that most of the actual Imperial warfare is done by the IG and ignored just to give more space to the bloody poster boys.

**General Annoyance**

Vintersorg wrote:
Space Marines.

The fact that most of the actual Imperial warfare is done by the IG and ignored just to give more space to the bloody poster boys.

That's mainly because they typically generate the most interesting tales of war; just because the Imperial Guard do most of the legwork does not mean they always end up in events worthy of mention in the lore, as typical Guard tactics involve pounding the hell out of their enemy with artillery before sweeping in with tanks and infantry, with not much else in between.

**Ynneadwraith**

Dakka Wolf wrote:
Ynneadwraith wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
The Grey Knights Codex - pretty much all of it.

The Dark Angels - loved them when Deathwatch was started - but now them being borderline traitors emo-ing about the galaxy - anything anything new is revealed about the Lion he just seems more of a complete dick.

Space Wolves - Space Vikings - ok - thats cool - no now its McWolfy Wolf Wolf on his Wolf with his Wolf sword and Wolf necklace howling like a Wolf

If you want to see just the sheer potential missed by the official Space Wolves fluff check this out: https://ironsleet.com/category/vlka-fenryka/

I want that guy writing the next Space Wolves Codex fluff and re-naming the units.
You sir may have an exulting just for that link.

It's a thing of utter beauty isn't it?

Captures perfectly the fact that this is a completely alien culture to us. Backwards medieval superstitious Nordic Space Viking Sky Warriors

I really want to see people take that sort of approach to other Legions/chapters as well

really play up the cultural roots of the real-world societies that inspired them. Things like the Carcharodons connection to Maori headhunters, and Imperial Fists originating from Inwit (what on earth would a space-capable Inuit culture look like?). I'd love to see what a Marine Chapter originating from an Aztec-derived Culture that praises the Emperor as a sun-deity to be sacrificed to (would fit nicely as a Blood Angels successor).

So much potential in all of these things that's (almost) completely untapped

**Dakka Wolf**

Ynneadwraith wrote:
Dakka Wolf wrote:
Ynneadwraith wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:

If you want to see just the sheer potential missed by the official Space Wolves fluff check this out: https://ironsleet.com/category/vlka-fenryka/

I want that guy writing the next Space Wolves Codex fluff and re-naming the units.
You sir may have an exulting just for that link.

It's a thing of utter beauty isn't it?

Captures perfectly the fact that this is a completely alien culture to us. Backwards medieval superstitious Nordic Space Viking Sky Warriors

I really want to see people take that sort of approach to other Legions/chapters as well really play up the cultural roots of the real-world societies that inspired them. Things like the Carcharodons connection to Maori headhunters, and Imperial Fists originating from Inwit (what on earth would a space-capable Inuit culture look like?). I'd love to see what a Marine Chapter originating from an Aztec-derived Culture that praises the Emperor as a sun-deity to be sacrificed to (would fit nicely as a Blood Angels successor).

So much potential in all of these things that's (almost) completely untapped

True dat.

**Joyboozer**

Konrad Curze allowing himself to be killed by an assassin. It's the one thing I always think of from 40k as being something I'd prefer they handled differently and was made pointless as we never saw how it effected the Emperor.

**Pilau Rice**

Ynneadwraith wrote:

Yeah that's the new sh*tty fluff. Before they shoehorned Khorne in there it was simply a battle between Khaine and Slaanesh. Infinitely better.

Weeeeelll, it's actually from Rogue Trader

WD 105: When Kaela Mensha Khaine, the Bloody Handed God of the Eldar, fought with Slaanesh the Lord of Pleasure, he was quickly overwhelmed and his energy captured by the newborn God. For the Bloody Handed God was as much a part of Slaanesh as of Khorne - being a product of that part of the Eldar nature which finds gratification in murder and pleasure in bloody violence. Khorne the Blood God, the Patron of War, Murder and Battle, roared with rage to discover one of his own taken from him in this way. Then Khorne and Slaanesh clashed headlong, the Blood God fighting to recover the portion of his power that had been robbed from him, Slaanesh driven by his uncontrollable hunger to consume everything in his path. The Bloody Handed God of the Eldar was tossed this way and that, at first grasped by Slaanesh, then tugged back into the compass of Khorne.

Eventually the rage of the Blood God and the passion of the Lord of Pleasure were exhausted, and the boundaries between them were established. Like a leaf in the eye of a hurricane, Kaela Mensha Khaine fell among the calm, down through the Realm of Chaos and into the material universe. As he entered the material universe he divided into many shards of energy, scattering his power so that neither Khorne or Slaanesh could ever find him again. Each shard entered the body of an Eldar, filling the body with his own mind, possessing it, so that it became a virtually indestructible blood-lusting murderer - the material manifestation of the Bloody Handed God. These are the Avatars of the Bloody Handed God

.

**Ynneadwraith**

Xca|iber wrote:

On a different subject, I'm also not a huge fan of the Newcrons. I liked them as the complementary "monolithic bad-guy" to the Tyranids. Now they're just another empire like the Imperium, Orks, Eldar, and Tau.

Oh don't get me started on how bad the Newcron fluff is compared to the Oldcrons. I've probably derailed half a dozen threads by going off on one about it!

Here's a short list of things that the Newcron fluff is worse about compared to the Oldcrons:

1. Mystery
2. Credible motivations
3. Feeling like a credible threat
4. Nuance
5. Originality (both within 40k and outside of it)
6. Feeling of scope
7. Perception that they're aliens, rather than just 'metal people'
8 Acceptable balance of technology/power compared to the other denizens of the galaxy, maintaining the idea of balance/stalemate in 40k

It's not that the Newcron fluff is necessarily bad per-se. More that the Oldcron fluff was utterly beautiful, and the Newcron fluff is a serious step down in almost every respect.

**Da Kommizzar**

I find all the ork fluff to be delightfully amusing. They are overpowered but are too stupid to make use of it and they bring dark humor into the grim dark future.

It is disappointing that orkz are pitiful and overcosted and do not receive profiles to represent rightful orkz, but whatever.

I enjoy the religious themes of the imperium, it is interesting.

Oh wait, we have to say what we hate....

-I hate Newcrons.
-I dislike that Tyranids and Zerg are basically the same, but then again I enjoy both race concepts a lot.
-I dislike that Eldar are always everywhere and always saving Imperial Guard butt for no reason. Not even the recent stuff, but like in general.
-I dislike the lack of commercial, civilian fluff.

**General Annoyance**

Da Kommizzar wrote:
-I dislike that Tyranids and Zerg are basically the same, but then again I enjoy both race concepts a lot.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Blizzard were making a Warhammer Fantasy game and a Warhammer 40K game for GW before they pulled the plug on it. However Blizzard had already spent a lot of time on the projects and had a lot of assets for them, and without the license they turned them into Warcraft and Starcraft respectively.

That's probably why Tyranids and Zerg are so alike.

**Ynneadwraith**

Da Kommizzar wrote:

-I hate Newcrons.
-I dislike that Tyranids and Zerg are basically the same, but then again I enjoy both race concepts a lot.
-I dislike that Eldar are always everywhere and always saving Imperial Guard butt for no reason. Not even the recent stuff, but like in general.
-I dislike the lack of commercial, civilian fluff.

Agreed. Newcrons are terrible.

There's a reason that the Tyranids and Zerg are pretty much the same thing. The Zerg were based on the Tyranids!

Yeah I don't like the propensity for the writers to use 'Eldar coming to the rescue' as a Deus Ex Machina to pull their Imperial protagonists out of sh*t-creek. The majority of the time it's just a lazy plot device, and feeds into the impression that the eldar are 'good guys' which they most certainly are not. I'd like to see a little more where the Eldar come to the rescue, they both defeat their mutual enemies...and then the Eldar throw the surviving humans under a bus. Would be more fitting to their fluff and the feel of 40k in general

Saying that, I like how it's handled in the Fracture of Biel Tan. It feels like the Eldar are manipulating the humans for their own ends, which is much more fitting than 'join the fight against Chaos noble humans!'...

**IMMORTAN_AL**

Da Kommizzar wrote:

-I hate Newcrons.
-I dislike that Tyranids and Zerg are basically the same, but then again I enjoy both race concepts a lot.
-I dislike that Eldar are always everywhere and always saving Imperial Guard butt for no reason. Not even the recent stuff, but like in general.
-I dislike the lack of commercial, civilian fluff.

my dislikes and hatred mirror yours, while i like tyranids a lot i dislike that pretty much theyre unstoppable and drink planets, a little too grimdark for me lol

**Albino Squirrel**

How Fulgrim was presented in the Horus Heresy novels. Terrible.

**IMMORTAN_AL**

Albino Squirrel wrote:
How Fulgrim was presented in the Horus Heresy novels. Terrible.

im not happy with the how the traitors in general are portrayed, its like "surprise, we're evil!" horus justs randomly shoots a dude "yes look how evil i just randomly shot him! Im evil!" they could have made things much more tragic and dramatic, esp when the final showdown comes, if horus and friends were written better. doesn't matter, in my head canon horus was much more sympathetic and had reasons beyond horus's demon dreams and in particular what irriates me is the authors' half remebered after thoughts on the primarchs' daddy issues. at least the latest book portrays Big E as the d**k he is.

**Melissia**

Yeah, the Horus Heresy books were pretty much garbage aside from a few gems which did a good job.

**Gashrog**

General Annoyance wrote:
Da Kommizzar wrote:
-I dislike that Tyranids and Zerg are basically the same, but then again I enjoy both race concepts a lot.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Blizzard were making a Warhammer Fantasy game and a Warhammer 40K game for GW before they pulled the plug on it.

http://www.codeofhonor.com/blog/the-making-of-warcraft-part-1

"Allen Adham hoped to obtain a license to the Warhammer universe to try to increase sales by brand recognition. Warhammer was a huge inspiration for the art-style of Warcraft, but a combination of factors, including a lack of traction on business terms and a fervent desire on the part of virtually everyone else on the development team (myself included) to control our own universe nixed any potential for a deal. We had already had terrible experiences working with DC Comics on "Death and Return of Superman" and "Justice League Task Force", and wanted no similar issues for our new game."

Warcraft predated Starcraft by over three years, since Warcraft was never an actually licensed game I can't see Starcraft having ever been either. They were merely imitating.

**Quarterdime**

The Crimson Slaughter.

Games Workshop decided to finally develop a new Chaos Warband, and the best they could do were the equivalent of the droid army from the Star Wars prequels. 1 dimensional villains with barely any thought put into them that are just there to get blown away. I think that that's why they had to give Crimson Slaughter the extra attention... Just enough for people to care about them being blown away, except not really.

**TedNugent**

Mr Morden wrote:

The Dark Angels - loved them when Deathwatch was started - but now them being borderline traitors emo-ing about the galaxy - anything anything new is revealed about the Lion he just seems more of a complete dick.

Lion is a dick but he is not a traitor. As far as the Edge Angels, I think their fluff is the only SM fluff worth reading. Azrael, Belial, Asmodai, Balthasar - yes, yes, and yes. The furry slayers supreme.

Then again you may have been less happy about how Balthasar behaved while he was in the Deathwatch. No hard feelings on that. Shake on it?

Spoiler:

**Kid_Kyoto**

Lots of obvious picks, Guillman coming back, post 2009 Grey Knights, the Eldar being the best at everything...

One that bugs me though is the idea the Nids can eat every bit of biomatter on a planet in days. Because if they can do that then everything is pointless. The fact you are playing a game against nids means you lost.

It should take decades and be like fighting an infestation or a cancer. The whole thing there there's a million nid ships in the air and you're already dead should be the exception not the rule.

BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Ah, expediency over art.

"Guys, I really think you need all six words to tell the whole story. 'For sale: baby shoes, never worn.'"

"Stuff it, Hemmingway. We're printing it as 'dead babies' and that's final."

So like the other day I donated some baby shoes, never worn, to the local thrift shop. Y'see my dad got them for the girls but he thought their age was the size so when they came they were way, way too small.

I assume that's what happened to Hemmingway.

**Albino Squirrel**

Yeah, that Hemmingway line about the baby shoes is only interesting if you've never had kids. I have many pairs of baby shoes that were never worn, mostly gifts from relatives or hand-me-downs. Hemmingway apparently didn't realize that babies can't walk, and therefore don't really need shoes. So I'm guessing there are a lot of unworn baby shoes in the world.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

IMMORTAN_AL wrote:
Albino Squirrel wrote:
How Fulgrim was presented in the Horus Heresy novels. Terrible.

im not happy with the how the traitors in general are portrayed, its like "surprise, we're evil!" horus justs randomly shoots a dude "yes look how evil i just randomly shot him! Im evil!" they could have made things much more tragic and dramatic, esp when the final showdown comes, if horus and friends were written better. doesn't matter, in my head canon horus was much more sympathetic and had reasons beyond horus's demon dreams and in particular what irriates me is the authors' half remebered after thoughts on the primarchs' daddy issues. at least the latest book portrays Big E as the d**k he is.

I don't know, I thought some were okay (though I admit I've fallen about 20 or so books behind on the Horus Heresy series now). I thought Lorgar and Magnus were portrayed well. I could even understand where Horus was coming from. But Fulgrim was easily the worst.

He went to chaos because he was possessed by a daemon. Did they ever even explain how that happened? But then in that awful Primarchs compilation, it is revealed that he was able to defeat and drive out the daemon, only to demonstrate that the real Fulgrim is even more stupid and ridiculous than the daemon one. His fall to chaos could have been interesting.

Poor Ferrus Manus also gets portrayed as kind of an idiot.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Guys, those six words had ambiguity. There was room for multiple interpretations. And now you've ruined it with your Buying of the Wrong Size expansion.

Starting to sympathize with GW writers now...

**Kid_Kyoto**

I even heard Hemmingway didn't really write that story.

What a lazy bum, taking credit all these years for someone else's work.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
I even heard Hemmingway didn't really write that story.

What a lazy bum, taking credit all these years for someone else's work.

He attached his name to the property to increase its value. He's the Geat American Novelist.