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or will he only have authority over the Ultramarines

for example, if were talking about the Blood Angels, will Roboute's command supersede Dante's?

Why would he?

 curran12 wrote:
Why would he?

so the other chapters don't have to obey Roboute essentially?

Considering Roboute divided the Legions into Chapters specifically so that someone like him could never wield the full power of a Legion again. He'll only have control of the Ultramarines, at least at first. Successor Smurfs will probably try flocking back. While I imagine other Chapters will likely listen to him on some matters.

I mean he could always change his mind after seeing the state of the Imperium.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Considering Roboute divided the Legions into Chapters specifically so that someone like him could never wield the full power of a Legion again. He'll only have control of the Ultramarines, at least at first. Successor Smurfs will probably try flocking back. While I imagine other Chapters will likely listen to him on some matters.

I mean he could always change his mind after seeing the state of the Imperium.

Aren't ultra successors like half of all the chapters?

Yes, but that doesnt mean all of them will want to come back. Or that he will want to run them all. This is the guy that broke Legions up and said "Enough of that, we are dividing our power."

I’d love to see some successor chapters try to come back and ask for orders, and have him respond “Do what you want, I broke up the legions for a reason, and will not assume overall command of the Space Marines.”

Probably followed by a “But I’m heading to Cadia a/o Terra to go kick Abbadon’s teeth in."

Why is Roboute going to Terra?

If he's going to Terra, its likely to take his seat back with the High Lords of Terra.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
If he's going to Terra, its likely to take his seat back with the High Lords of Terra.

also, do you think it has to do with him and Cypher planning on "killing" the Emperor so that he can be reborn via the Star Child prophecy?

LightKing wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
Why would he?

so the other chapters don't have to obey Roboute essentially?

no. all chapters are independant, they have been since the second founding, which was designed specificly to PREVENT another primarch from leading an army of space marines against the IoM. Robert Gulliman cannot COMPEL a chapter to follow him (nor can the high lords for that matter. chapters are completely independant answering only to the emperor) however,that does not mean a chapter master cannot choose to follow someone. and choose to put his chapter under a join command. and I'd not be suprised to see a LOT of chapters choosing to respect Gulliman's authority

LightKing wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
If he's going to Terra, its likely to take his seat back with the High Lords of Terra.

also, do you think it has to do with him and Cypher planning on "killing" the Emperor so that he can be reborn via the Star Child prophecy?

No, I think it has to do with Roboute trying to get the Imperium back on track, I don't think he's planning on killing the Emperor. Even if he did want the Emperor gone, he's more useful to Roboute on the throne as a figure head. And if he wanted him to be reborn he,d of killed him earlier.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
If he's going to Terra, its likely to take his seat back with the High Lords of Terra.

I was under the assumption that’s where Abb’s is heading. Wouldn’t make sense to head to Cadia is the party has already move to the next stop.

 Nevelon wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
If he's going to Terra, its likely to take his seat back with the High Lords of Terra.

I was under the assumption that’s where Abb’s is heading. Wouldn’t make sense to head to Cadia is the party has already move to the next stop.

Well yeah, but the best way he can coordinate the Defense of Terra is by taking the High Lords of Terra and giving them a stern talking to.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
If he's going to Terra, its likely to take his seat back with the High Lords of Terra.

I was under the assumption that’s where Abb’s is heading. Wouldn’t make sense to head to Cadia is the party has already move to the next stop.

Well yeah, but the best way he can coordinate the Defense of Terra is by taking the High Lords of Terra and giving them a stern talking to.

Maybe?

That would involve interacting with the bureaucracy. It’s too massive and entrenched to just deal with like a gordian knot. Tempting though that thought is. Not without the whole IoM unraveling.

Space marines have a pretty wide mandate. The best way to get things done might just to be round up a posse, and make it happen. The HLoT can whine, but should be smart enough to realize that a reforming primearch is probably better to deal with then a razing heretic. Especially if he has a pretty decent chance of kicking off heroically in battle killing the traitors. That’s their win/win.

Of course, things could go all sorts of ways. We live in interesting times.

Well considering politics and bureaucracy are kinda Guilliman's thing, I really can see him dealing with the HLoT, plus there is no one who will stop him from taking the title of Lord Commander of the Imperium back, the seat on the HLoT that was created by him for him.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Well considering politics and bureaucracy are kinda Guilliman's thing, I really can see him dealing with the HLoT, plus there is no one who will stop him from taking the title of Lord Commander of the Imperium back, the seat on the HLoT that was created by him for him.

Don’t get me wrong, they are on the list. Logistical genius that he is, even Guilliman is probably going to take years, if not decades, to straighten out the mess of the Imperial Bureaucracy. But there are things that need doing, and done now

Reformatting the structure of the imperium is something that’s going to take a long time to start moving, and will probably end up with a lot of short term issues/problems/shortfalls as things change over to a better system. But the long term benefits are going to take time to manifest.

Of course, that’s one of the problems with the IoM. Root of the setting, actually. Things are grimdark. There are fires everywhere that need to be put out. But someone needs to take the time to rework the structure of things for the long term. But everyone is so caught up in dealing with today’s issues, that it can never get done. So the crises pop up and are dealt with, but the root causes of them remain unchanged. So mankind is stuck in a rut/loop. Eternal war, just to keep even.

 Nevelon wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Well considering politics and bureaucracy are kinda Guilliman's thing, I really can see him dealing with the HLoT, plus there is no one who will stop him from taking the title of Lord Commander of the Imperium back, the seat on the HLoT that was created by him for him.

Don’t get me wrong, they are on the list. Logistical genius that he is, even Guilliman is probably going to take years, if not decades, to straighten out the mess of the Imperial Bureaucracy. But there are things that need doing, and done now

Reformatting the structure of the imperium is something that’s going to take a long time to start moving, and will probably end up with a lot of short term issues/problems/shortfalls as things change over to a better system. But the long term benefits are going to take time to manifest.

Of course, that’s one of the problems with the IoM. Root of the setting, actually. Things are grimdark. There are fires everywhere that need to be put out. But someone needs to take the time to rework the structure of things for the long term. But everyone is so caught up in dealing with today’s issues, that it can never get done. So the crises pop up and are dealt with, but the root causes of them remain unchanged. So mankind is stuck in a rut/loop. Eternal war, just to keep even.

this, as for dealing with the highlords, I doubt he'll have to deal with em much, the highlords neck is in the noose, Gulliman's return, in the short term at least, is gonna be seen as a, literal, answer to their prayers.

in the long term given the indiciations we've got, Gulliman may well end up running the show. from the latest book "the time of the corpse emperor is dead. but we can give humanity a demi-god, to remind them of greater times"

 Nevelon wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Well considering politics and bureaucracy are kinda Guilliman's thing, I really can see him dealing with the HLoT, plus there is no one who will stop him from taking the title of Lord Commander of the Imperium back, the seat on the HLoT that was created by him for him.

Don’t get me wrong, they are on the list. Logistical genius that he is, even Guilliman is probably going to take years, if not decades, to straighten out the mess of the Imperial Bureaucracy. But there are things that need doing, and done now

Reformatting the structure of the imperium is something that’s going to take a long time to start moving, and will probably end up with a lot of short term issues/problems/shortfalls as things change over to a better system. But the long term benefits are going to take time to manifest.

Of course, that’s one of the problems with the IoM. Root of the setting, actually. Things are grimdark. There are fires everywhere that need to be put out. But someone needs to take the time to rework the structure of things for the long term. But everyone is so caught up in dealing with today’s issues, that it can never get done. So the crises pop up and are dealt with, but the root causes of them remain unchanged. So mankind is stuck in a rut/loop. Eternal war, just to keep even.

Assuming command of the HLoT and the Imperium can, for him, be as simple as saying "I am in charge now." and taking control of the military to fight. Restructuring can come later.

Let's be honest here, this is GW we're talking about. Whatever the fluff should be the actual result is going to be that all of the other chapters beg to submit to their spiritual liege.

 Peregrine wrote:
Let's be honest here, this is GW we're talking about. Whatever the fluff should be the actual result is going to be that all of the other chapters beg to submit to their spiritual liege.

Can we let the "Spiritual Liege" thing die? It was a bad Ward quote from 5th. All it does is stir up hate and discord.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:


No, I think it has to do with Roboute trying to get the Imperium back on track, I don't think he's planning on killing the Emperor. Even if he did want the Emperor gone, he's more useful to Roboute on the throne as a figure head. And if he wanted him to be reborn he,d of killed him earlier.

Unless Cypher knows something about it that he doesn't, which is completely plausible considering he's been warp jumping around the universe for 10 millennia.

The question is why Cypher wants to go back to Terra, not why Guilliman does.

BrianDavion wrote:


this, as for dealing with the highlords, I doubt he'll have to deal with em much, the highlords neck is in the noose, Gulliman's return, in the short term at least, is gonna be seen as a, literal, answer to their prayers.

in the long term given the indiciations we've got, Gulliman may well end up running the show. from the latest book "the time of the corpse emperor is dead. but we can give humanity a demi-god, to remind them of greater times"

There's always the possibility this could happen again. It's not like the HLoT are just going to sit there and do nothing. Political change is in the air, especially with the Fallen Angels being present.

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Beheading,_The

If they are fighting in the same campaign, pretty much anyone in the Imperium would defer to any of the Primarchs leadership and battle plan.

If you mean Roboute flying up to the Rock and demanding that the Dark Angels change things, no, they can tell him to bugger off.

Hes undoubtedly going to be in overall comand of the Imperium's war machine, and will dispatch chapters to fight the Imperiums enemies. But how they accomplish that will be up to those chapters.

I would guess that Guilliman would have overall command over the combined space marine aspects of the imperium defence force, a bit like Logar Grimnar did in the original 13th Black Crusade.

I'm sure the Lion will have something to say about it all anyway when he can be arsed to wake up.

In theory, Guilliman should have authority over the Empire as a whole given his status as Primarch. However, Space Marine Chapters operate on their own as it is. So I doubt he would have direct control over all the chapters, but I'm certain most Chapter Masters would follow his orders.

My Raven Gaurd will tell him in no uncertain terms to Foxtrot Oscar if he even implied that he was giving them an order.

 rawne2510 wrote:
My Raven Gaurd will tell him in no uncertain terms to Foxtrot Oscar if he even implied that he was giving them an order.

One of the Chapters that supported Guilliman the most in the reformations is gonna tell him to FO?

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 rawne2510 wrote:
My Raven Gaurd will tell him in no uncertain terms to Foxtrot Oscar if he even implied that he was giving them an order.

One of the Chapters that supported Guilliman the most in the reformations is gonna tell him to FO?

To be fair, they should.

If he just up and orders them to do something, they have every right to tell him to get stuffed. That’s why he broke up the legions in the first place.

If he asks nicely for help with a problem, and they agree to place themselves in a joint crusade under his overall command, then he can order them around.

But they need to agree first. That’s why the legions were broken up in the first place.

They can, I just find it unlikely that the Raven Guard will, particularly with Shrike in command now. Though with his own problems on the way in the form of a massive WAAAGH! I can imagine him politely turning down the request or requesting assistance before he can help.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
They can, I just find it unlikely that the Raven Guard will, particularly with Shrike in command now. Though with his own problems on the way in the form of a massive WAAAGH! I can imagine him politely turning down the request or requesting assistance before he can help.

when did Shrike become chapter master?