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Basically don't play him with novas or invisibility.

HandofMars wrote:
Basically don't play him with novas or invisibility.

I wouldn't say that.
Definitely let your opponent know you're making all 5 rolls on Sancitc and outright tell them they should probably have a Culexus in every Elites slot.
Then things could actually be interesting rather than literally "Magnus shows up. Everything on the other side of the table is atomized."

It's 30k, you can't run a culexus bud.
You can however run an allied detachment of sisters of silence against him.

 Jackal wrote:
It's 30k, you can't run a culexus bud.
You can however run an allied detachment of sisters of silence against him.

I don't give a gak what the rules say when they're slowed.
The Officio Assassinorum was already established when the heresy broke out.
You CAN run Culexus in a Loyalist legion against anyone who's not a RAW cigarette (May be stretching RAWfag here but dumb rules is dumb rules)
That and Sister of Silence aren't at all a viable counter to Magnus the same way Culexus are.
And if you're playing a Magnus rolling on Sanctic with the intent to nuke the board you should let your opponent do just about whatever they want so long as it makes any sense.

So what your saying is screw the rules completely and do whatever you want?
Viable tactic if your playing against yourself I guess.

And you might want to read the sisters rules.
They don't struggle to shut him down atall.



Or if we are playing it your way, just run a 40k magnus because reasons and rules suck

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 Jackal wrote:
It's 30k, you can't run a culexus bud.
You can however run an allied detachment of sisters of silence against him.

I don't give a gak what the rules say when they're slowed.

I agree.

That's why I house-rule that all the marines in my army hit on 2+!

 Jackal wrote:
So what your saying is screw the rules completely and do whatever you want?
Viable tactic if your playing against yourself I guess.

And you might want to read the sisters rules.
They don't struggle to shut him down atall.



Or if we are playing it your way, just run a 40k magnus because reasons and rules suck

Screw the rules when there's mutual agreement they're stupid. There's a huge difference you're glossing over because that statement actually makes sense.
To any onlookers if it looks like I'm defending the concept of Magnus' rules, its because I believe they're very fun as a sort of novelty. There's an absurd novelty in Magnus blowing about 5000 points off the table with his first power, just like there's an absurd novelty in some bolter bitches cock blocking him from doing it, and rendering him about a million times less threatening.
It's not something you should every bring against any one but a friend who knows you're bringing it.
Its certainly not something you should bring to a pickup game, or even to a friendly game with a dude who doesn't know about/ didnt consent to the use of your sun busting sorcerer.

Sure, you can house rule it to change certain rules.
Permitting both players agree that is.

Yes he can blow up 5k on models.
If someone somehow puts 3 reavers all within range and you roll fine against all 3.

Against infantry though, it's really not doing a lot.
Basic tac marines will laugh off anything but a deathblow result.
More so if they also have FNP etc.

That would just be sisters of silence doing what they are designed to do really.

And no, saying screw the rules makes literally no sense.
If your playing a friendly game or with someone you know then by all means, throw in house rules and change it as you want.

In any form of tournament though?
Best of luck changing it.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

HandofMars wrote:
Basically don't play him with novas or invisibility.

I wouldn't say that.
Definitely let your opponent know you're making all 5 rolls on Sancitc and outright tell them they should probably have a Culexus in every Elites slot.
Then things could actually be interesting rather than literally "Magnus shows up. Everything on the other side of the table is atomized."

Cullexus is not available in 30K. This is the type of escalation that has no place in the 30k ruleset. Please keep 40K cancer out, k thx.

Thankfully this type of crap only goes on on the interwebz. In real life, at real 30K events, the players tend to be adults who care more about modeling and painting than nutcrushing lists, and crap like this gets resolved with a gentleman's agreement. I won't be using D novas or invisibility with Magnus.

A 100 pt Sisters Excruciator squad can cause 5 perils attempts per turn on Magnus or his unit, and is immune to all his novas. It's quite possible you could strip most of Magnus's powers leaving him utterly vulnerable.

Durandal wrote:
A 100 pt Sisters Excruciator squad can cause 5 perils attempts per turn on Magnus or his unit, and is immune to all his novas. It's quite possible you could strip most of Magnus's powers leaving him utterly vulnerable.

What's the range on their shutdown?
As vulnerable as a creature with 6 WS7 S9 AP1 attacks can be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also the fact that pariahs can do much of anything to Magnus is well...explicitly disproven in the lore. The same reason bug spray doesn't work too well on Mothra is the same reason blanks don't do much to Magnus.

So, if we dont like something, we can all break rules now?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So, if we dont like something, we can all break rules now?

Assuming as both players are in agreement, yes. Its always been like that. Its a board game. The biggest strength it has is that its easily mutable the way video games will never be.
I was under the impression SoS were going to as much of a speed bump to Magnus as a single electron is to a hypernova. I think because I read the 40k version rules? Honestly the Talons of the Emperor are a bit confusing.....

They where not gonna make models that just just down an entire army. SoS are perfectly balanced. as is Magnus for his points.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
They where not gonna make models that just just down an entire army. SoS are perfectly balanced. as is Magnus for his points.

I have to say that's a ridiculous statement. 40k is in shambles because GW decided to continue to up the power level and throw any sort of balance to the wind (I would hope most folks could agree there is absolutely no balance in 40k at all now, its like a game of Crown Royale).

One of the finer points of 30k was like chess you were playing marine against marine. And although there were fliers to deal with and of course you had to worry about anti tank no one really took any sort of magic phase. If someone took a level 2 librarian, it wasnt earth shattering, they may get 1 spell off a turn and you had a decent chance of denying.

1K Sons and Magnus have single handedly broken 30k to a new level. Folks dont want to have to create their army then always ally in Sisters of Silence just in case their opponent brings 1K Sons, that's ridiculous. 1k Sons can easily drop 10-13 power dice and your opponent has no real chance to stop it, just like 40k when Daemons or Eldar bring a psychic spam list, not to mention it just isnt fun to play against. Unfortunately I have been waiting for years for FW to do a 1K Sons list, now I feel dirty just modelling up some terminators, you are going to have to house rule them as well. Funny thing is, the 40k variants should have had 2 wounds and the 30k variants should have had 1 wound. Same cost as base termies (35 pts) plus a free sorcerer, plus force weapons, plus the 1K Sons rules should have been plenty without the extra W.

HandofMars wrote:
...Thankfully this type of crap only goes on on the interwebz. In real life, at real 30K events, the players tend to be adults who care more about modeling and painting than nutcrushing lists, and crap like this gets resolved with a gentleman's agreement. I won't be using D novas or invisibility with Magnus.

The stream of bile is certainly making me feel good about my decision to build my Thousand Sons as loyalist proto-Blood Ravens without Magnus.

I'm almost 100% sure FW intended Mind Wraith to only be used with actual Witchfires, not special Witchfires like Novas and Beams.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
I'm almost 100% sure FW intended Mind Wraith to only be used with actual Witchfires, not special Witchfires like Novas and Beams.

Do you happen to have the exact wording somewhere? I've seen it in reviews/summary, not in the original, and we may be able to get some sort of answer on that.

Addendum: Never mind, found SpikeyBits's pictures.

Strict reading of the rules 'Witchfire' includes Nova, Beam, and Focussed Witchfire powers, but given that there are effects that apply to subtype-less Witchfires and not to subtyped Witchfire powers (and given that they have different headings in the FAQ) I'd support a reading wherein 'Witchfire' doesn't refer to the subtypes.

(Though if 8e writes Nova/Beam/Focussed Witchfire as their own types rather than subtypes of Witchfire we'll know for certain.)

sturguard wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
They where not gonna make models that just just down an entire army. SoS are perfectly balanced. as is Magnus for his points.

I have to say that's a ridiculous statement. 40k is in shambles because GW decided to continue to up the power level and throw any sort of balance to the wind (I would hope most folks could agree there is absolutely no balance in 40k at all now, its like a game of Crown Royale).

One of the finer points of 30k was like chess you were playing marine against marine. And although there were fliers to deal with and of course you had to worry about anti tank no one really took any sort of magic phase. If someone took a level 2 librarian, it wasnt earth shattering, they may get 1 spell off a turn and you had a decent chance of denying.

1K Sons and Magnus have single handedly broken 30k to a new level. Folks dont want to have to create their army then always ally in Sisters of Silence just in case their opponent brings 1K Sons, that's ridiculous. 1k Sons can easily drop 10-13 power dice and your opponent has no real chance to stop it, just like 40k when Daemons or Eldar bring a psychic spam list, not to mention it just isnt fun to play against. Unfortunately I have been waiting for years for FW to do a 1K Sons list, now I feel dirty just modelling up some terminators, you are going to have to house rule them as well. Funny thing is, the 40k variants should have had 2 wounds and the 30k variants should have had 1 wound. Same cost as base termies (35 pts) plus a free sorcerer, plus force weapons, plus the 1K Sons rules should have been plenty without the extra W.

30k has always been more fluff based. That was the Thousand Sons thing. They were powerful psykers while other legions despised psykers.

 ThePrimordial wrote:
The thing is 20 man marine units will be left with over half their number remaining statistically.
All titans but the Warlord will be ruined, and the Warlord will be left a weeping, bleeding mess quitely gaking itself in the corner. It will have maybe 5 or 6 hp left. And that's if the dice gods don't favor you....

Unless it's the psyker warlord. Then it will just rapidly heal itself back up again.

That thing is ridiculous.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

Durandal wrote:
A 100 pt Sisters Excruciator squad can cause 5 perils attempts per turn on Magnus or his unit, and is immune to all his novas. It's quite possible you could strip most of Magnus's powers leaving him utterly vulnerable.

What's the range on their shutdown?
As vulnerable as a creature with 6 WS7 S9 AP1 attacks can be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also the fact that pariahs can do much of anything to Magnus is well...explicitly disproven in the lore. The same reason bug spray doesn't work too well on Mothra is the same reason blanks don't do much to Magnus.

A Seeker Cadre that gets within 12" of Magnus could cause him issues. They bump him to manifesting on a 4+ (oh noes), they ignore Invisibility, and provided even half of those 3" Blasts hit, that is a handful of Perils he gets to take. Not bad chance to stack up some Perils 1-4 results. Plus, forces the whole enemy 1k Sons army to take a pinning test (not a big deal, but gravy). So two of those squads could be pretty problematic for 1k Sons players in general.

I think that is no coincidence that Inferno has both 1k Sons and SoS in it, as a way to keep things in check (in theory).

Magnus is not that broken.

He's super OP against tank armies, certainly, and MC armies, definitely.

And I think that is a deliberate design choice to try to dial down the mech and make people see more 20-man tactical spam.

Besides, there are some armies in 40k that just crush him and his army. I have every confidence in my Centurio Ordinatus army.

Furthermore, he's a LoW (HQ in one ROW admittedly) with a D weapon for 500 points. *sarcastic cheer*

The weapon has to jump through so many hoops to be D it's not even funny.

My $0.02

My only concern is that Sisters of Silence are only available to Loyalist legions. What's a Traitor Legion supposed to do against Magnus? Meh, fight on I guess.

Unit - you do realise it's not just marines in 30k right?

Questoris get screwed big time by this.
If he gets invisibility they can do nothing to kill him.

Mechanicum - it's an army of MCs and tanks, just like magnus is perfect for killing.


Best you can hope for is he doesn't get invisibility then hit him with as much as you can before he decimates a section of board.





The main issue is, you either need amazing characters or heavy vehicles to kill him.
He specialises in killing both of those quite easily.


Also, jumping through hoops to get strength D?
With how he can cast the hoops are fairly easy to jump through.
Considering the average 2D6 roll is also a 7, you'd have to roll less than average to fail it.

 Tamwulf wrote:
My only concern is that Sisters of Silence are only available to Loyalist legions. What's a Traitor Legion supposed to do against Magnus? Meh, fight on I guess.

True enough. Hell, most RoW don't allow Allies anyhow, so it is tough on many Legions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jackal wrote:
Unit - you do realise it's not just marines in 30k right?

Questoris get screwed big time by this.
If he gets invisibility they can do nothing to kill him.

Mechanicum - it's an army of MCs and tanks, just like magnus is perfect for killing.


Best you can hope for is he doesn't get invisibility then hit him with as much as you can before he decimates a section of board.

The main issue is, you either need amazing characters or heavy vehicles to kill him.
He specialises in killing both of those quite easily.


Also, jumping through hoops to get strength D?
With how he can cast the hoops are fairly easy to jump through.
Considering the average 2D6 roll is also a 7, you'd have to roll less than average to fail it.

Questoris armies, such as mine, will now be adding Sisters as my only means to not get utterly obliterated by Magnus.

This hysteria must end.

Mind wrath:

"When manifesting a witchfire power Magnus may declare the use of mind wrath. "

The only time witchfire is defined in bold is on the psychic power charts. Have a look at them. Witchfire. Beam and nova are all called out in bold. The clear intent and semi clear rules writing is for this to apply to powers labelled on their description as witchfire in Bold.

Doing this requires Two more warp charge. At WC3 Magnus requires to put in 6WC to approach a 90% casting chance. The opponent then gets a slim chance to deny, then roll to hit at bs5, then roll on the D table.
There are repeated opportunities for failure.
It's good, but it isn't that good. Knights should have no problem stomping Magnus to the dirt.

Invisibility is Very good, but rolling telepathy means no witchfires to mind wrath, so the rest of the TS army can do that.

Sisters of Silence are not that scary to Thousand Sons. They are only T3, so they can be drowned in wounds from conventional weapons. They will not do well against Sekhmet termies, who are stubborn and ignore the leadership penalties, plus will be walking in a 2+/3++ and will simply smash them in CC. Phosphex should kill the easily and dedicatet CC units will smash them. Without Custodes backup they will not live long.

 hordrak wrote:
Sisters of Silence are not that scary to Thousand Sons. They are only T3, so they can be drowned in wounds from conventional weapons. They will not do well against Sekhmet termies, who are stubborn and ignore the leadership penalties, plus will be walking in a 2+/3++ and will simply smash them in CC. Phosphex should kill the easily and dedicatet CC units will smash them. Without Custodes backup they will not live long.

They are really only a support element, not really a stand-alone force. So they will be backing up Custodes or Questoris Knights, or Legions who take allies, etc.

I think they do offer some tools that might cause you issues, but nothing too imbalanced, which isn't a surprise. 30k is generally pretty even among its armies/factions.

The Word Bearers Dark Brethren RoW has a rule: Hell Follows with Them. All wounds caused by perils of the warp taken by the opponent gain the Instant Death rule - does that help at all?

I doubt it as I think Magnus ignores perils all together.

What is this from? Because I don't recall seeing a D nova in the tzeench tree, thought it was just the gaze of magnus and the single D shot.