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 Jidmah wrote:
I'd like to point out that the communities/events banning indexes is increasing rapidly since the ork codex has been released.

Check with your local meta whether index is still an option before building a model.

Well, to rabbithole, that kills my Slaanesh Daemons rushdown. Gonna have to get a DP done up, then. Still not as useful as mounted Herald.

To get back on topic, Nurgle isn’t affected badly, right? Didn’t have a fast herald to lose, and the Index didn’t even have rules for the Palanquin one.

Nurgle Daemons are safe for now by virtue of getting a new release last year.

Slaanesh is getting something soon though.

I personally have been redoing my own collection with only the newest units released (all as planned GW...).

Its not that I don't trust or appreciate the Index,but I feel the codes and game itself is balanced toward the new Xodex options.

CA Leaks:
Biologus Putrefier -14
Blightlord Terminators -4
Cultists +1
Land Raider -39 (Twin lascannon -10 each)
Terminator Lord -10
Chaos Spawn -8
Daemon Prince with Wings +-0
Deathshroud +-0 (Plaguespurt Gauntlet -8)
Defiler -20
Helbrute -12 (Helbrute fist -10 each, Helbrute Plasma cannon -14, Reaper Cannon -5, Power Scourge -8)
Lord of Contagion -5 (Plague Reaper -10)
Myphitic Blighthauler -10 (Bilespurt -5, Missile Launcher -5, Multimelta -5)
Noxious Blightbringer -8 (Plasma Pistol -2)
Plague Marines -1
Plague Surgeon -5
PBC +-0 (Entropy Cannon -5 each)
Possessed -2
Sorceror in Terminator Amror -18
Tallyman -5 (Plasma Pistol -2)

Combi-Melta -4
Combi-Plasma -4
Plague Spewer -4
Plasma gun -2

Not bad GW, not bad.
Big winners for us seem to be helbrutes (86 for fist/plasma cannon!) and the blighthauler (117 per model now).

Points change in CA 2018 :

Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour : 105 -> 95 : -10pts

Lord of Contagion : 100 -> 95 : -5pts

Sorcerer in Terminator Armour : 120 -> 102 : -18pts


Cultists : 4 -> 5: +1pts

Plague Marines : 17 -> 16 : -1pts


Biologus Putrifier : 74 -> 60 : -14pts

Blightlord Terminators : 38 -> 34 : -4pts

Deathshroud Terminators : Plaguespurt Gauntlet 8 -> 0 : -8pts

Helbrute : 72 -> 60 : -12pts

Noxious Blightbringer : 58 -> 50 : -8pts, Plasma pistol 7 -> 5 : -2pts : TOTAL -10pts

Plague Surgeon : 59 -> 54 : -5pts

Possessed : 22 -> 20 : -2pts

Tallyman : 55 -> 50 : -5pts, Plasma pistol 7 -> 5 : -2pts : TOTAL -7pts


Chaos Spawn : 33 -> 25 : -8pts

Myphitic Blight-Haulers : 85 -> 75 : -10pts, Bile spurt 5 -> 0 : -5pts, Missile Launcher 25 -> 20 : -5pts, Multi-melta : 27 -> 22 : -5pts : TOTAL : -25pts


Chaos Land Raider : 239 -> 200, 2x Twin Lascannon : 2x50 -> 2x40 : -59pts

Defiler : 140 -> 120 : -20pts


Changes on wargear :

Plasma pistol : 7 -> 5 : -2pts

Plasma gun : 13 -> 11 : -2pts

Combi-plasma : 15 -> 11 : -4pts

Helbrute Plasma Cannon : 30 -> 16 : -14pts

Meltagun : 17 -> 14 : -3pts

Combi-melta : 19 -> 15 : -4pts

Multi-melta : 27 -> 22 : -5pts

Flamer : 9 -> 6 : -3pts

Combi-flamer : 11 -> 8 : -3pts

Plague belcher : 10 -> 7 : -3pts

Plague spewer : 19 -> 15 : -4pts

Twin Heavy-flamer : 34 -> 28 : -6pts

Entropy Cannon : 20 -> 15 : -5pts

Missile Launcher : 25 -> 20 : -5pts

Twin Lascannon : 50 -> 40 : -10pts

Reaper Autocannon : 15 -> 10 : -5pts

Havoc Launcher : 11 -> 6 : -5pts

Heavy Stubber : 4 -> 2 : -2pts




Plaguereaper : 30 -> 20 : -10pts

Power fist : 12 -> 9 : -3pts

Chainfist : 22 -> 11 : -11pts

Helbrute fist : 40/50 -> 30/40 : -10pts

Helbrute hammer : 52 -> 30 : -22pts

Power scourge : 48 -> 35 : -8pts


Daemons points changes :

GUO sword + blade : 325 -> 275 : -50pts
GUO sword + flail : 325 -> 285 : -40pts
GUO bell + blade : 325 -> 295 : -30pts
GUO bell+ flail : 325 -> 305 : -20pts

Rotigus : 330 -> 285 : -45pts

Spoilpox Scrivener : 75 -> 95 : +20pts

Plague Drones : 34 -> 40 : +6pts

Meijin wrote:
Points change in CA 2018 :

Chaos Lord in Terminator Armour : 105 -> 95 : -10pts

Lord of Contagion : 100 -> 95 : -5pts

Sorcerer in Terminator Armour : 120 -> 102 : -18pts


Cultists : 4 -> 5: +1pts

Plague Marines : 17 -> 16 : -1pts


Biologus Putrifier : 74 -> 60 : -14pts

Blightlord Terminators : 38 -> 34 : -4pts

Deathshroud Terminators : Plaguespurt Gauntlet 8 -> 0 : -8pts

Helbrute : 72 -> 60 : -12pts

Noxious Blightbringer : 58 -> 50 : -8pts, Plasma pistol 7 -> 5 : -2pts : TOTAL -10pts

Plague Surgeon : 59 -> 54 : -5pts

Possessed : 22 -> 20 : -2pts

Tallyman : 55 -> 50 : -5pts, Plasma pistol 7 -> 5 : -2pts : TOTAL -7pts


Chaos Spawn : 33 -> 25 : -8pts

Myphitic Blight-Haulers : 85 -> 75 : -10pts, Bile spurt 5 -> 0 : -5pts, Missile Launcher 25 -> 20 : -5pts, Multi-melta : 27 -> 22 : -5pts : TOTAL : -25pts


Chaos Land Raider : 239 -> 200, 2x Twin Lascannon : 2x50 -> 2x40 : -59pts

Defiler : 140 -> 120 : -20pts


Changes on wargear :

Plasma pistol : 7 -> 5 : -2pts

Plasma gun : 13 -> 11 : -2pts

Combi-plasma : 15 -> 11 : -4pts

Helbrute Plasma Cannon : 30 -> 16 : -14pts

Meltagun : 17 -> 14 : -3pts

Combi-melta : 19 -> 15 : -4pts

Multi-melta : 27 -> 22 : -5pts

Flamer : 9 -> 6 : -3pts

Combi-flamer : 11 -> 8 : -3pts

Plague belcher : 10 -> 7 : -3pts

Plague spewer : 19 -> 15 : -4pts

Twin Heavy-flamer : 34 -> 28 : -6pts

Entropy Cannon : 20 -> 15 : -5pts

Missile Launcher : 25 -> 20 : -5pts

Twin Lascannon : 50 -> 40 : -10pts

Reaper Autocannon : 15 -> 10 : -5pts

Havoc Launcher : 11 -> 6 : -5pts

Heavy Stubber : 4 -> 2 : -2pts




Plaguereaper : 30 -> 20 : -10pts

Power fist : 12 -> 9 : -3pts

Chainfist : 22 -> 11 : -11pts

Helbrute fist : 40/50 -> 30/40 : -10pts

Helbrute hammer : 52 -> 30 : -22pts

Power scourge : 48 -> 35 : -8pts


Daemons points changes :

GUO sword + blade : 325 -> 275 : -50pts
GUO sword + flail : 325 -> 285 : -40pts
GUO bell + blade : 325 -> 295 : -30pts
GUO bell+ flail : 325 -> 305 : -20pts

Rotigus : 330 -> 285 : -45pts

Spoilpox Scrivener : 75 -> 95 : +20pts

Plague Drones : 34 -> 40 : +6pts

Thank you!

Why the flying feth were plague drones and the scrivener nerfed so hard? Were they THAT good? I haven't seen those units around that much.

This gets me gurgly with nurgly.

After waiting over a year for the Ork book, I'm just... not terribly excited to build lists for them, and went back to my Death Guard instead.

Now that I've received substantial price cuts, I can really build more fun lists. Chaos Spawn arent outclassed by Plague Drones. Guess I won't be selling mine off! And the elite characters getting cheaper means they will be seeing more table time.

I'm thrilled! With these discounts, I can squeeze a Plagueburst Crawler into my 2000 point list. I feel like I've really been missing out on having one, so I'm excited to get to include some artillery!

You know, its actually possible to run a death guard brigade now and have quite a lot of anti-armor in it! The key is to bring 3 basic laspreds (no sponsons) and 3 twin lascannon hellbrutes. That's your elite and heavy slots taken care of, and then take 3 spawn for FA slots. (And you have at least 12 lascannons between all the laspreds and las hellbrutes).

Round up your 6 troop choices however you like. (I think 6 squads of min 5 man plague marines are good). And 3 characters and there, you now have a brigade! May even have points left over for some plague burst crawlers.

And best of all, you now have 15 CPs to play with... lol

Gryphonne wrote:
Why the flying feth were plague drones and the scrivener nerfed so hard? Were they THAT good? I haven't seen those units around that much

run a scrivener with 120 Pb's then you realize. Btw 20 more points is nothing, take out 3 Pb's out of 120 and you keep play as before.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
You know, its actually possible to run a death guard brigade now and have quite a lot of anti-armor in it! The key is to bring 3 basic laspreds (no sponsons) and 3 twin lascannon hellbrutes. That's your elite and heavy slots taken care of, and then take 3 spawn for FA slots. (And you have at least 12 lascannons between all the laspreds and las hellbrutes).

Round up your 6 troop choices however you like. (I think 6 squads of min 5 man plague marines are good). And 3 characters and there, you now have a brigade! May even have points left over for some plague burst crawlers.

And best of all, you now have 15 CPs to play with... lol

and when you face a true horde what you do with 12 lascannons? you kill average 8 orks/gants or 6pb's each turn? unless you play tailored lists against spècific opponents.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
You know, its actually possible to run a death guard brigade now and have quite a lot of anti-armor in it! The key is to bring 3 basic laspreds (no sponsons) and 3 twin lascannon hellbrutes. That's your elite and heavy slots taken care of, and then take 3 spawn for FA slots. (And you have at least 12 lascannons between all the laspreds and las hellbrutes).

Round up your 6 troop choices however you like. (I think 6 squads of min 5 man plague marines are good). And 3 characters and there, you now have a brigade! May even have points left over for some plague burst crawlers.

And best of all, you now have 15 CPs to play with... lol

Too bad most of the DG strats are cabbage.

Brigades are overrated for pretty much any army except Astra Militarum. Usually it involves bringing too many "tax units" that you wouldn't want to bring otherwise.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
You know, its actually possible to run a death guard brigade now and have quite a lot of anti-armor in it! The key is to bring 3 basic laspreds (no sponsons) and 3 twin lascannon hellbrutes. That's your elite and heavy slots taken care of, and then take 3 spawn for FA slots. (And you have at least 12 lascannons between all the laspreds and las hellbrutes).

Round up your 6 troop choices however you like. (I think 6 squads of min 5 man plague marines are good). And 3 characters and there, you now have a brigade! May even have points left over for some plague burst crawlers.

And best of all, you now have 15 CPs to play with... lol

Too bad most of the DG strats are cabbage.

Brigades are overrated for pretty much any army except Astra Militarum. Usually it involves bringing too many "tax units" that you wouldn't want to bring otherwise.

Hmmm, I dunno... Imagine if I use fire frenzy, daemon forge, kill shot and veterans of the long war every turn. Thats 4 CP per turn already. And there is a strategem for a whole unit to chuck blight grenades (good against hordes). Thats another 1 or 2 CP. There is also the very expensive strategem that resurrects or heals a unit. Sounds like can easily blow through 15 CP within 4 turns.

Gryphonne wrote:
Why the flying feth were plague drones and the scrivener nerfed so hard? Were they THAT good? I haven't seen those units around that much.

Scriveners were insane and still are. If you haven't noticed you must have not been running 60-150 plaguebearers. Hitting on 3s and walking as fast as Eldar? Yeah, the nerf is warranted. They are still auto-take in any Nurgle daemons-centric list.

 slave.entity wrote:

Gryphonne wrote:
Why the flying feth were plague drones and the scrivener nerfed so hard? Were they THAT good? I haven't seen those units around that much.

Scriveners were insane and still are. If you haven't noticed you must have not been running 60-150 plaguebearers. Hitting on 3s and walking as fast as Eldar? Yeah, the nerf is warranted. They are still auto-take in any Nurgle daemons-centric list.

Yeah, bringing Plague bearers without scrivener is like... bringing poxwalkers without Typhus.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
This gets me gurgly with nurgly.

After waiting over a year for the Ork book, I'm just... not terribly excited to build lists for them, and went back to my Death Guard instead.

Now that I've received substantial price cuts, I can really build more fun lists. Chaos Spawn arent outclassed by Plague Drones. Guess I won't be selling mine off! And the elite characters getting cheaper means they will be seeing more table time.

So funny you said that because I'm the same. I got the ork book had a flick through then carried on playing DG. Now with new points drops I'm not touching my orks. I was loving running 3X5 man squads of PM's with triple plasma overcharging with a lord nearby. This just got cheaper

 slave.entity wrote:

Gryphonne wrote:
Why the flying feth were plague drones and the scrivener nerfed so hard? Were they THAT good? I haven't seen those units around that much.

Scriveners were insane and still are. If you haven't noticed you must have not been running 60-150 plaguebearers. Hitting on 3s and walking as fast as Eldar? Yeah, the nerf is warranted. They are still auto-take in any Nurgle daemons-centric list.

I agree with this... and he still is an Auto Take.

The Drone nerf was weird though; they're good, but 34 points was already kinda ehhh... but 40 points? yeash


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
You know, its actually possible to run a death guard brigade now and have quite a lot of anti-armor in it! The key is to bring 3 basic laspreds (no sponsons) and 3 twin lascannon hellbrutes. That's your elite and heavy slots taken care of, and then take 3 spawn for FA slots. (And you have at least 12 lascannons between all the laspreds and las hellbrutes).

Round up your 6 troop choices however you like. (I think 6 squads of min 5 man plague marines are good). And 3 characters and there, you now have a brigade! May even have points left over for some plague burst crawlers.

And best of all, you now have 15 CPs to play with... lol

Too bad most of the DG strats are cabbage.

Brigades are overrated for pretty much any army except Astra Militarum. Usually it involves bringing too many "tax units" that you wouldn't want to bring otherwise.

I agree here, Brigades are AM or Ork territory. DG has a few very good strats, but you have to dip into CSM or 1k Sons to get stuff like Demonforge.

DG is best at Battalion level. And Lascannons are over-rated this edition unless you bring a LOT (like.... a LOT) due to the way the rules work and the prevalence of invun saves. I would still take a renegade gatling knight over 3 laspreds and 3 helbrutes for less; its harder to kill, and dishes out more damage on all targets.


On another note... defiler points drop was definitely needed, and makes me happy because I can actually use mine (possibly) now. I wish Typhus had dropped a few points, he is just too expensive when his sole purpose seems to be following poxes around. I also never realized my DG demon princes were 170 points... I've been paying 180!

 Zid wrote:

I also never realized my DG demon princes were 170 points... I've been paying 180!

180 when you factor in their melee weapon.

Plague Drones vs Chaos Spawn did seem disproportionate to me from the get go. For one point more than a Spawn you got +3 movement, 5++, 5+++, and reroll to wound.

I am glad Spawn got a drop, it makes them an option again. A bit miffed Drones got a bump, but they were seen in every competitive Nurgle Daemons lists (locally at least) so I'm not surprised.

I myself, would auto include drones (and therefore a separate Daemon detachment) in every Nurgle list I had as a Daemon Prince Escort, and had shelved the Spawn that used to perform the same role. That said, since the Spawn dropped, Drones should have stayed the same. But I'm happy to bring Spawn back on the table this weekend.

So what's your opinions on typical competitive components in a DG after these changes? Like, what would be worth using?

murphs wrote:

 Zid wrote:

I also never realized my DG demon princes were 170 points... I've been paying 180!

180 when you factor in their melee weapon.

Righto! I was missing something then... still, Renegade Knights getting cheaper was a boon


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gryphonne wrote:
So what's your opinions on typical competitive components in a DG after these changes? Like, what would be worth using?

Same ol' same ol', however, Blightlords are even better now (Combi Plas, base cost down); Defilers may start getting seen more, 20 points off isn't bad at all, makes them sub 150 for the best loadout. Less cultists will see play, they took a lot of hits. Plague Marines may see more play because blighthaulers don't cost an ungodly amount anymore. More Hellbrutes overall, more big beatsticks. You might start seeing Entropy Cannons more now, the PBC using 2x entropy is only 135 I believe (forget the cost of the stubber).

I think you will see less Demons, though; while the big beasts went down, a lot of staple units (as far as nurgle does) went up... which makes it a wash in that aspect.

Oh, and Renegade Knights are even better; they got overall cheaper. Which makes my Nurgle Knights list really happy.

 Zid wrote:

Oh, and Renegade Knights are even better; they got overall cheaper. Which makes my Nurgle Knights list really happy.

I must be missing something in the leaks. What reductions are there for Renegade Knights?

nfe wrote:

 Zid wrote:

Oh, and Renegade Knights are even better; they got overall cheaper. Which makes my Nurgle Knights list really happy.

I must be missing something in the leaks. What reductions are there for Renegade Knights?

Cost of weapons went down, if you look at the Adeptus Mechanicus leaks. For example, the icarus autocannon went down to 20 points, and I believe the heavy flamers dropped as well (which come with the gatling cannon). Its only a slight drop, but its enough I might fit another nurgling base in

25pts reduction on Blight-Haulers is incredible for me

I’ve been interested in Blightlords - I like the models - and this really sweetens them

Yeah I thought the only thing holding back MBH in the past was points, now I save 75pts on three! Oh snap! Also, saving points on PM squads and characters all generally going down in points, maybe we'll see more from Death Gaurd besides Morty and PBCs.

 Brymm wrote:
Yeah I thought the only thing holding back MBH in the past was points, now I save 75pts on three! Oh snap! Also, saving points on PM squads and characters all generally going down in points, maybe we'll see more from Death Gaurd besides Morty and PBCs.

I think we may see a resurgence of MBH + Plague Marine hordes a bit, also Hellbrutes I think will be a cheap source of AT in some lists. Contemptors going down makes a case on that front as well... I dunno, a brave new meta is upon us! The biggest question(s) are the changes to castellan (we didn't see anything from the leaks) and Drukhari (didn't see them at all either)... which are two heavy hitters

 Zid wrote:
I wish Typhus had dropped a few points, he is just too expensive when his sole purpose seems to be following poxes around. I also never realized my DG demon princes were 170 points... I've been paying 180!

I have been playing him a lot lately and I found him to work much better when he is just doing his thing (fething stuff up with his scythe and casting powers), with poxes following him around... maybe. I basically use him as a more durable daemon prince, with as little as a single unit of pox walkers on the army rooster. I either deep strike him with blight lords/on his own and try to get off charges while smiting and casting Blades of Puterfaction or Putrecent Vitaility on nearby terminators or plageu marines. I've also had decent success with deploying him dead center and just moving him up with the main body of the army. He can be kited easily though, so when there is nothing within 18" of him, you might as well just have him squat on an objective for the rest of the game.

Gryphonne wrote:
So what's your opinions on typical competitive components in a DG after these changes? Like, what would be worth using?

Sadly, its a no-brainer really...

3xPBC babysat by a prince with arch contaminator,talons, and plate.
3xDeredeo Pattern Dreadnought with butcher cannon array and greater havoc launchers. (they were fantastic, and now they are cheaper because "reasons"...)
The rest is up to you, and missions played.

I'm just catching up on the 14th Legion in the 41st millennium. I love my Dodo in 30K but have they really been buffed to be an auto include in 40K?

I like my DG to have a "echo" of the past so I was planning on using converted 30K chassis and armour mks etc. I'm also sitting on a spare Dodo right now....

Dodo? As Deredeo Pattern Dreadnought?
But if so, then yeah. At 198pts, the amount of shots, at high BS with good S is simply that good

My Blightlord unit dropping nearly 60 points has me very excited