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In retrospect I wish I had given my 10 Blightlords combi-bolters instead of combi-plasmas, but oh well. I am going to try a list with 10 of them, a Chaos Lord for reroll 1s, and an allied Sorcerer to give them Prescience.

Atlatl Jones wrote:

 Zid wrote:
Unsupported they can do a lot of damage even, casting VOTLW on them and shooting combi-bolters they can take a huge chunk from something. Not to mention the Flails do a ton of damage... I'm gonna be testing 10 in some new battle reps

With the drops in combi-weapon costs I've been thinking of ways of making them work with combi-plasma, but you're right that cheap combi-bolsters are good for anti-horde.

Have you found them useful for assault? They, like the Deathshroud, are so slow it's not difficult to kite them.

Helbrutes are now cheap enough to fulfill AT pretty handily, as are Contemptor Dreads. I'm working on converting 3 myself; 8 str 8 shots + d6 str 5 shots for 144 points at BS 2 is really a steal.

I'm tempted to give my Deredeo a Hellfire Veil to give Helbrutes a 5++. I don't know if that's better than just taking the Greater Havoc Launcher and letting the Helbrutes die more quickly, but I like the image of it.

I haven't had a chance to put all 10 on the field (used a 5 man squad a few times), but you need to deploy them maximum coherancy to minimize your opponents movement options (and thus, ability to avoid them) and use them to bully a couple objectives. They are extremely hard to kill. Combi-bolters seem best with them because you pop VOTLW, and they get 28 bolter shots with +1 to wound. Plasma has better AP, but same damage and you shouldn't be overcharging them.

Movements not a big deal if you surround whatever your going after that way if you fail a charge they can't move far enough from you to try again. It also makes it so no matter which way they go they most likely won't get further away from your lords.

Lastly, you want to minimize the amount you spend to support them; the squad is already close to 500 points. You should have a demon prince with fly that can come support after they drop, and at MOST you want to dedicate a Blades of Putrefaction spell to them; vitality is a waste because most stuff will wound them on 5+ or 3+, very few things are str 6 so why bother? On the same token, Str 6 on them doesn't allow them to wound things like tanks any better because most are T7.

TLDR: Take the squad with bolters, only use blades on them, deploy them in a long line or in a way to minimize your opponents options.


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 Virules wrote:
In retrospect I wish I had given my 10 Blightlords combi-bolters instead of combi-plasmas, but oh well. I am going to try a list with 10 of them, a Chaos Lord for reroll 1s, and an allied Sorcerer to give them Prescience.

Prescience is only worth it if your taking 1k sons sorcerers; that way you have a higher chance to get it off, and a reliable smite platform to boot. Even so, I wouldn't purposely build my list to support the lords; once the lords surround their target and get in its probably gonna die.

I'm attempting a list that relies on pinning the enemy with waves of Nurglings, then a wave of blightlords supported by a bunch of ranged damage to clear screens and/or pummel the stuff that can hurt the Blightlords so they can do Papa Nurgles work

10 termies have a decent footprint, they cant be avoided forever, they also have decent firepower, 6 combi bolters+2 blight launchers, i dont think they are useful as well with combiplasma.
The only list i had good results with 10 man termy units, was Don Hooson list.

@Zid - when you say 28 Bolter shots with Blightlords, is that a cheap squad of seven? Or are there some flails in there as well, a launcher or two?

 lindsay40k wrote:
@Zid - when you say 28 Bolter shots with Blightlords, is that a cheap squad of seven? Or are there some flails in there as well, a launcher or two?

Sorry 24 shots in a 10 man, i mathed wrong (2x flails snd 2x blightlauncher)


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 blackmage wrote:
10 termies have a decent footprint, they cant be avoided forever, they also have decent firepower, 6 combi bolters+2 blight launchers, i dont think they are useful as well with combiplasma.
The only list i had good results with 10 man termy units, was Don Hooson list.

Dons new list for lvo uses them still and is drastically different; you can make them perform well if you revolve the list around them.

Post CA any hope for Morty in a competitive list? I'm trying to justify taking him with the decrease in deathshroud but perhaps I'm fooling myself.

 Zid wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
@Zid - when you say 28 Bolter shots with Blightlords, is that a cheap squad of seven? Or are there some flails in there as well, a launcher or two?

Sorry 24 shots in a 10 man, i mathed wrong (2x flails snd 2x blightlauncher)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 blackmage wrote:
10 termies have a decent footprint, they cant be avoided forever, they also have decent firepower, 6 combi bolters+2 blight launchers, i dont think they are useful as well with combiplasma.
The only list i had good results with 10 man termy units, was Don Hooson list.

Dons new list for lvo uses them still and is drastically different; you can make them perform well if you revolve the list around them.

yes but ITC is too much different than ETC, hardly you can have same degree of succes with pure ITC lists in ETC, here missions rely heavily on objectives. I tried old Don's list but most times you need to table the opponent or you struggle control objectives end game, with new CA missions you need lot of models on the table.



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 buddha wrote:
Post CA any hope for Morty in a competitive list? I'm trying to justify taking him with the decrease in deathshroud but perhaps I'm fooling myself.

what changed for Morty post CA? nothing, so he remain an average choice, just a drop in point for deathsrouds dont justify take him.

Just received some Death Shroud termies as a gift. What are some good tricks and tips for them, or should I just expect them to be a showpiece unit...

they can be decent as Mortarion bodyguard, for the rest they are too slow they have only melee weapons or that short range flamer that you cant use when DS (only 6" range)

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Just received some Death Shroud termies as a gift. What are some good tricks and tips for them, or should I just expect them to be a showpiece unit...

Showpiece. Until they get a new data sheet buffing them, they are too slow, even if they lock in on a target when they deep strike in people will ignore them.

They really need to be buffed to like 3 or 4 wounds, then they could be a great body guard unit akin to hive guard.


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 buddha wrote:
Post CA any hope for Morty in a competitive list? I'm trying to justify taking him with the decrease in deathshroud but perhaps I'm fooling myself.

Hes just as good as he always has been.

He suffers the same weakness as Magnus though; likely to get tabled turn 1, even with support, unless you get first and warptime him over.

People have had success with Magnus and Morty, its just how lucky are your dice.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Just received some Death Shroud termies as a gift. What are some good tricks and tips for them, or should I just expect them to be a showpiece unit...

I put them in front of Morty and have them tank wounds. Add a blight hauler to give them a 1+ cover save which will mitigate AP. If you get first turn, advance them up and hope for a good roll, then jump Morty over them to set up a nice T2 charge. Not going to win GTs but can definitely win you games.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
Just received some Death Shroud termies as a gift. What are some good tricks and tips for them, or should I just expect them to be a showpiece unit...

Having some success deepstriking them in with a terminator lord this last month. Only run them in eternal war really and point them at an objective. Found in the past that people would just ignore them and they're too slow to really do anything. In the set pieces created by eternal war though, the enemy doesn't want to give up the objective and it allows them to zero in on a unit and do what they do best - choppy choppy!

Have the infection node box arriving shortly, my only other Death Guard are formed from the Conquest! series.

Thinking the following:

Blightlord Terminators, have the easy build ones arriving, no idea what they are armed with but the goal is a unit of eight, a flail and likely a blight launcher (for the range to be able to do something when deep striking), the rest with combi bolters - aim being deep strike to tackle medium infantry on an objective as reading here they are pants at taking on elites but good at taking on medium and lighter troops.

Plague Marines, have a five man squad, plus a second easy build sergeant currently, aiming to add the seven new ones to get a squad of six and a squad of seven, both with a plasma/power first sergeant and a pair of blight launchers.

Q: does these seem sensible?

Q: what sort of additional close combat weapons are worth adding to the PM, or is it best to keep them cheap?

leopard wrote:
Have the infection node box arriving shortly, my only other Death Guard are formed from the Conquest! series.

Thinking the following:

Blightlord Terminators, have the easy build ones arriving, no idea what they are armed with but the goal is a unit of eight, a flail and likely a blight launcher (for the range to be able to do something when deep striking), the rest with combi bolters - aim being deep strike to tackle medium infantry on an objective as reading here they are pants at taking on elites but good at taking on medium and lighter troops.

Plague Marines, have a five man squad, plus a second easy build sergeant currently, aiming to add the seven new ones to get a squad of six and a squad of seven, both with a plasma/power first sergeant and a pair of blight launchers.

Q: does these seem sensible?

Q: what sort of additional close combat weapons are worth adding to the PM, or is it best to keep them cheap?

Plague marines work best with 2 blightlaunchers and bolters in squads of 5, or as a massive 20 man squad with dual knives and some blighthaulers to provide cover and use the infinite mortal wound grenade shenanigans (needs the grenade character). Plague marines overall, though, arent that great; they die pretty fast, and power armor is a premium we pay for not much benefit.

I would up the blightlords to 10 man, get 2 flails, 2 blightlaunchers, all axes, and combi bolters. They are very hard to remove and can do a surprising amount of damage

Chees, was thinking of a full ten man squad of them at some point, that pretty much confirms it as needed, will be eight to start with as thats what I'll have.. but more will join them, possibly more of the easy build once I've seen them.

PM get the plasma & fist leader as thats the model I've got but otherwise sounds like 2x blight launchers then keep the rest cheap?

big mob would be nice, and if we could split squads between multiple transports I would..

that said a Storm Eagle is very tempting as a model

Why do people run plaguespitters on their PBCs? Entropy cannons provide far more DPS and start killing stuff turn one. Every game people use plaguespitters on their PBCs rarely to never get to use them and now they even cost more. ECs also give the much needed anti-tank capability death guard needs. Leave the plaguespitters for the drones who really maximize their usage with fhe fly keyword.

broxus wrote:
Why do people run plaguespitters on their PBCs? Entropy cannons provide far more DPS and start killing stuff turn one. Every game people use plaguespitters on their PBCs rarely to never get to use them and now they even cost more. ECs also give the much needed anti-tank capability death guard needs. Leave the plaguespitters for the drones who really maximize their usage with fhe fly keyword.

Volume of shots, you get 2d6 that autohit at str 7. Entropy cannons are two shots at bs 4+ (5+ if tou move) degrading. Top it off that you get to reroll all wounds with arch contaminator, the spitters are amazing. You have to run multiple to get the use out of it, and they can do well as anti tank if you bring a poxbringer) makes the flamer str 8 with a possibility of d2. Play a few games this way and it will quickly sell you on it.

Oh, and entropy cannons have a chance to roll 1 damage, with no reroll to wound. They are seriously unreliable.


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leopard wrote:
Chees, was thinking of a full ten man squad of them at some point, that pretty much confirms it as needed, will be eight to start with as thats what I'll have.. but more will join them, possibly more of the easy build once I've seen them.

PM get the plasma & fist leader as thats the model I've got but otherwise sounds like 2x blight launchers then keep the rest cheap?

big mob would be nice, and if we could split squads between multiple transports I would..

that said a Storm Eagle is very tempting as a model

Plasma gun on the champs not bad, ive heard of people running triple plasma gun squads; to me this is really expensive and leaves it that any reasonable focus fire will be killing plasma guns quickly. I hate power fists this edition, being 1d3 damage is stupid.... they should be at least a flat d2, or even d3 with thunderhammers having extra ap.

He problem is that with the spitters you won’t get to use them likely until turn 3 and if you are moving you are making your mortar less effective. With the 2D6 shots you will likely only hit 7 times and wound 6 (maybe less) and with a 3+ Enemy armor save only half will fail for a total of 3 wounds. Since you 9” away at this point you are likely going to get charged and not get to shoot the following turn.

In contrast the entropy cannons on average does 3 wounds every turn especially against tanks threatening you advancing units.

broxus wrote:
He problem is that with the spitters you won’t get to use them likely until turn 3 and if you are moving you are making your mortar less effective. With the 2D6 shots you will likely only hit 7 times and wound 6 (maybe less) and with a 3+ Enemy armor save only half will fail for a total of 3 wounds. Since you 9” away at this point you are likely going to get charged and not get to shoot the following turn.

In contrast the entropy cannons on average does 3 wounds every turn especially against tanks threatening you advancing units.

2 shots per tank, 1 hit at bs 4, against a tank you have a 50% if its t8.... unreliable.

You forward deploy the crawlers, and generally the opponent will move something toward you; even if i dont get to fire til t3, they do their job soaking up tons of firepower and being a charge deterrent. Seriously, in the 20+ games of using spitters i have never regretted it. I tried entropy cannons twice and regretted it each time. Lastly, the mortar is just icing on the cake; you dont take a pbc for the mortar. If you really want to hit with it pop the strat that allows you to shoot heavy weapona at bs, but i never have needed to.

I mean play how you want bud, the spitter pbc is amazing. If you want to see how they are played take a gander at my battle reps; i use them most games.

Take one of those Nurgle trees with your PBC's, and then you can fall back and shoot. Works good for Blight Haulers too.

 Zid wrote:

broxus wrote:
He problem is that with the spitters you won’t get to use them likely until turn 3 and if you are moving you are making your mortar less effective. With the 2D6 shots you will likely only hit 7 times and wound 6 (maybe less) and with a 3+ Enemy armor save only half will fail for a total of 3 wounds. Since you 9” away at this point you are likely going to get charged and not get to shoot the following turn.

In contrast the entropy cannons on average does 3 wounds every turn especially against tanks threatening you advancing units.

2 shots per tank, 1 hit at bs 4, against a tank you have a 50% if its t8.... unreliable.

You forward deploy the crawlers, and generally the opponent will move something toward you; even if i dont get to fire til t3, they do their job soaking up tons of firepower and being a charge deterrent. Seriously, in the 20+ games of using spitters i have never regretted it. I tried entropy cannons twice and regretted it each time. Lastly, the mortar is just icing on the cake; you dont take a pbc for the mortar. If you really want to hit with it pop the strat that allows you to shoot heavy weapona at bs, but i never have needed to.

I mean play how you want bud, the spitter pbc is amazing. If you want to see how they are played take a gander at my battle reps; i use them most games.

What is your batrep link. I would like be to watch them.

Spitters are best hands down!!

Everyone fears mine in the local meta, play aggressive with them and give multiple targets to shoot, you will realise that people will either focus them or ignore them and either way they make there points back.

I always play the arch contaminator DP as warlord with bladesoP.

I often add a nurgling batt with poxbringers so my PBC and prince become str8. 2d6 auto hitting atts which Wound knights on 4+ with full reroll wounds is brutal.

They are also excellent for absorbing overwatch lol.

COLD CASH wrote:
Spitters are best hands down!!

Everyone fears mine in the local meta, play aggressive with them and give multiple targets to shoot, you will realise that people will either focus them or ignore them and either way they make there points back.

I always play the arch contaminator DP as warlord with bladesoP.

I often add a nurgling batt with poxbringers so my PBC and prince become str8. 2d6 auto hitting atts which Wound knights on 4+ with full reroll wounds is brutal.

They are also excellent for absorbing overwatch lol.

Bingo


Automatically Appended Next Post:

broxus wrote:

 Zid wrote:

broxus wrote:
He problem is that with the spitters you won’t get to use them likely until turn 3 and if you are moving you are making your mortar less effective. With the 2D6 shots you will likely only hit 7 times and wound 6 (maybe less) and with a 3+ Enemy armor save only half will fail for a total of 3 wounds. Since you 9” away at this point you are likely going to get charged and not get to shoot the following turn.

In contrast the entropy cannons on average does 3 wounds every turn especially against tanks threatening you advancing units.

2 shots per tank, 1 hit at bs 4, against a tank you have a 50% if its t8.... unreliable.

You forward deploy the crawlers, and generally the opponent will move something toward you; even if i dont get to fire til t3, they do their job soaking up tons of firepower and being a charge deterrent. Seriously, in the 20+ games of using spitters i have never regretted it. I tried entropy cannons twice and regretted it each time. Lastly, the mortar is just icing on the cake; you dont take a pbc for the mortar. If you really want to hit with it pop the strat that allows you to shoot heavy weapona at bs, but i never have needed to.

I mean play how you want bud, the spitter pbc is amazing. If you want to see how they are played take a gander at my battle reps; i use them most games.

What is your batrep link. I would like be to watch them.

Should be in my signature, or just check out the battle reports forum here

broxus wrote:
Why do people run plaguespitters on their PBCs? Entropy cannons provide far more DPS and start killing stuff turn one. Every game people use plaguespitters on their PBCs rarely to never get to use them and now they even cost more. ECs also give the much needed anti-tank capability death guard needs. Leave the plaguespitters for the drones who really maximize their usage with fhe fly keyword.

I have found PBC with spitters to be great when conventional anti-tank like lascannons or melta fails. There is nothing better to fry units with -1 or even -2 to hit like many eldar units or units with good invulnerable saves like Magnus, tzeench daemons, harlequin and the like. When not shooting flamers, just bonk the PBC into a unit you don't want to charge or shoot next turn and shut it down. The main difference between PBC and drones is that the PBC is better at wounding T6 and T7 and is a lot harder to kill.

Entropy cannons have always performed well for me, but the spitter PBC is a completely different unit.
An entropy cannon PBC is an artillery piece which takes its power from shooting cannons, mortar and slugger while standing still
Meanwhile, the spitter PBC's primary role is to shoot stuff with their spitters, block enemy movement and shut down enemy units with charges. Mortar and slugger are nice if they hit anything, but not the primary focus. It's basically a utility unit.

The weapon is probably one of the easiest options to magnetize in the game, I constantly switch between the two. Entropy cannons are great for fulfilling the anti-tank job unless facing armies with lots of -1 to hit, but if I have helbrutes, blighthaulers and/or Mortarion in my list, I usually run spitters.

 Jidmah wrote:

broxus wrote:
Why do people run plaguespitters on their PBCs? Entropy cannons provide far more DPS and start killing stuff turn one. Every game people use plaguespitters on their PBCs rarely to never get to use them and now they even cost more. ECs also give the much needed anti-tank capability death guard needs. Leave the plaguespitters for the drones who really maximize their usage with fhe fly keyword.

I have found PBC with spitters to be great when conventional anti-tank like lascannons or melta fails. There is nothing better to fry units with -1 or even -2 to hit like many eldar units or units with good invulnerable saves like Magnus, tzeench daemons, harlequin and the like. When not shooting flamers, just bonk the PBC into a unit you don't want to charge or shoot next turn and shut it down. The main difference between PBC and drones is that the PBC is better at wounding T6 and T7 and is a lot harder to kill.

Entropy cannons have always performed well for me, but the spitter PBC is a completely different unit.
An entropy cannon PBC is an artillery piece which takes its power from shooting cannons, mortar and slugger while standing still
Meanwhile, the spitter PBC's primary role is to shoot stuff with their spitters, block enemy movement and shut down enemy units with charges. Mortar and slugger are nice if they hit anything, but not the primary focus. It's basically a utility unit.

The weapon is probably one of the easiest options to magnetize in the game, I constantly switch between the two. Entropy cannons are great for fulfilling the anti-tank job unless facing armies with lots of -1 to hit, but if I have helbrutes, blighthaulers and/or Mortarion in my list, I usually run spitters.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

They are great anti-flier tech as Jidmah pointed out; especially those guys that love to stack - hit penalties.

Anybody use possessed? Tried them for fun, squad of 5, in a Rhino with 5 axe marines. Did manage to jam termies and a chapter master for couple turns and denied an objective. Did better than melee PMs for some reason.

Ran a list of Lord, term sorcerer, 3 units of Plague marines, 3 MBH, PBC with entropies, Rhino, 5 possessed. Opponent was Iron Hands, no primaris.

First game without any Deep Strike units, think I'm gonna go troop heavy now. Lost the game by some margin, was ahead by turn 3 till the cards betrayed. Killed a Land Raider in t2, exploded and wiped out two squads of space marines. Hae quite a laugh with that!

I've used them in my generic tzeench themed CSM army, three units of five, they are not amazing but they do soak fire while other stuff closes up.

wondering how well they would go with Nurgle as I have another 15 unbuilt and think they would look good in mint green & brass

They did their part quite well, forgot to mention poxwalkers in my list. Poxwalkers took objective in turn one, sat on it till opponent charged his terminators and round 3 when last poxwalker fell I threw in possessed which endured the next round. Someone said they're overprized but after ca they're a point cheaper than a plague marine w bubotic axe. Against Thunder hammer I guess 5+inv is better than disgustingly resilient?

I'm no competitive player and this was maybe my 10th game this Edition so i'm only guessing.

What's people's experiences with using melee plague marines. Now that plague marines are cheaper by 1 point, and the new Chapter approved missions do emphasize objectives.

I was thinking of running 3 plague marine melee squads. Each of them with all plague knives and a flail. Its relatively cheap, and with blades of puetrification cast on a squad, it can take out a space marine squad in one turn. Its relatively cheap and resilient too.

I will have other stuff do the shooting, because I think bolters just won't do much. I rather these 3 melee squads close in on objectives and get into melee around the objectives. Maybe support with a scourge defiler. What do you all think?

Not going to put them in Rhinos because I am more interested in just going for mid field objectives rather than hitting opponent's castle or battleline. And that way, I can save points on Rhinos to spend elsewhere.

I would consider melee plague marines only in a dedicated Blight Bombardment unit backed by purifier. Dual knives, maybe a few axes. I dont like the special melee weapons outside of Killteam. Too few base attacks.

If I ever get an extra plague marine box I might build them as melee.