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Thanks for the replies guys. Pretty much what I was thinking @gwarsh41 so that's good to be seconded. @Brymm, I checked out your batreps and enjoyed them, good stuff. I also think min/max PMs are probably the best, I think 4 units with dual blight launchers and a plasma champ are what I will use in softer games. I'm honestly on the fence re: MBH though, I dig the +1 save but I don't like their weapon load outs, would rather they just had a heavy blight launcher or some kind of plague weapon tbh... oh well. Even with the price drop I think I'd eather run PBC or spitterdrones.
I have also built a melee unit of PMs, 2 flails & 4 axes to run with the biologus and tallyman. I'm not sure whether to run them in a rhino or just go big with a 12-16 man unit and thrown my plaguecaster, lord, blightspawn and blightbringer in there too, with 8 CPs I can afford to drop cloud of flies on the unit every turn...

 blackmage wrote:
it is because wraith fighters and eldar in general are very common, at least in ETC. Would love to see some lists with Pm that consistently make great results in ITC major events, can give me some interesting hints. The problem is not the couter itself is how much your "trick" cost compared to counter a 2xwraithfighter (in this specific example) 420pts, 5 Pm with 2 bligh launchers+3 MBH ( i cant even take into account play just one cause is just no sense) are 451pts. wont ever talk about what 8 shining spears do to Pm (32 shuriken shots+8 ap-4 2 damage shots+16 ap-4 d2 str6 melee attacks). Anyway as usual im taking a competitive view and most here talk about casual point of view ,so we dont have same kind of game experience, i guess that's fair i wont insist, in any case Pm are still overcosted.

Competitively speaking, the answer would be don't play PM. The only way to make them survivable is to buff them or put them in a Rhino, and Rhino's really aren't worth the points in a competitive setting. However if one is trying to make Plague Marines Great Again in with the current constraints, the answers are few and far between.

So dumb that Cloud of Flies, for no obvious reason, is in your movement phase even though other armies' anti-shooting strats are during the opponent's shooting phase.

So you can't use Cloud of Flies on the turn you deep strike down or otherwise can't come down from reserve, and you also can't use it during the first turn against the other person's first-turn shooting unless you happen to go at the top of the turn ><

I wonder if this was on purpose or an oversight? It's hard for me to have a lot of faith in how they wrote the DG strats considering DG codex only got about half as many strats as other codexes!

2nd Codex syndrome. Irks me to no end that the Tallyman is the only model with a CP regen ability that is restricted to the Codex specific stratagems, while everyone else can regen their CP reroll.

@virules: meh, blightlords are the only target you might do this with, and even then...

 Virules wrote:
So dumb that Cloud of Flies, for no obvious reason, is in your movement phase even though other armies' anti-shooting strats are during the opponent's shooting phase.

So you can't use Cloud of Flies on the turn you deep strike down or otherwise can't come down from reserve, and you also can't use it during the first turn against the other person's first-turn shooting unless you happen to go at the top of the turn ><

I wonder if this was on purpose or an oversight? It's hard for me to have a lot of faith in how they wrote the DG strats considering DG codex only got about half as many strats as other codexes!

I agree its really a opportunistic use strat that you have to plan a list around. I think it was designed to use with poxwalkers when they wrote the codex. It was a great thing when you could get poxwalkers up to big sized units with a cultist screen and cloud of flies with typhus and putrescent vitality and blades. That idea is similar to the way that tzangors work in thousand sons getting buffed to silly levels. It was clearly their design to make the themed tzangor/poxwalker unit to be the base of the list but it was abusable and they knee jerk reacted and killed the list.

I have been experimenting with a battalion of DG with a patrol detachment of Nurgle daemons where I run 20PM's and hide nurglings up front and cloud of flies the PM's and keep a DP and a sorceror with the +1 smite relic within the footprint. They advance up the board and pop of a couple of blight launchers while trying to hold 2 objectives and being unshootable. This only works when you get turn 1 to play cloud of flies because otherwise the PM's tend to get attritioned down turn 1. Its a silly fun gamble list.

Next step is to shoehorn in a supreme command detachment of thousand sons and have another DP and a couple of exlatewd sorcerors to get up to 5 smites. Pop off the DP smite first then the sorcerer with relic smite then the thousand sons. That comes in at 5 unmodified smites which could do work. Mid to late game the DP's can fly in to cause havoc. I'm playing with ideas to make this more competitive but I doubt it has the legs to do it.

Have anyone, other than "Don", tried the 3xhell blades tactics?

 Wibe wrote:
Have anyone, other than "Don", tried the 3xhell blades tactics?

No, but the same idea can be accomplished with other models (nurglings come to mind).

For fyi for everyone else, Don is taking 3 helblades to lvo for the purposes of board control, using the large base to prevent things like Knights from getting where they want to. The guns not too bad on the Helblade either.

However, buying $350 in forgeworld models that, in the future, may be useless... its a good idea, but you can accomplish it many different ways.

I think the +1 to hit against flying models also helps a lot with handling eldar.

Looking at the model, it's probably one of the easier models to scratchbuild or convert from some similar looking toy spaceship.

I absolutely love my Hell Blade, and whilst I got a fair bit of use from it in 7ed and really wanted to build up to a squadron, I’ve been very reluctant to dust it off since it got reduced to hitting all but a few targets on 4’s.

Might give it a go when I muster up for a really big game where there might be places it can land to snipe a character. The 20pts price cut does make it somewhat tempting. But I’d have preferred an increased fire rate... clearly, that’s a pair of twin Helstorm cannon.

But, I digress

 Jidmah wrote:
I think the +1 to hit against flying models also helps a lot with handling eldar.

Looking at the model, it's probably one of the easier models to scratchbuild or convert from some similar looking toy spaceship.

His list uses 3 deredeos, 3 helblades, and 3 pbcs.... really eldar is a non issue lol, or fliers in general. He said the primary ourpose really is to control movement. Hitting other fliers on 3s is beneficial, though, for sniping things like Demon Princes (fly behind, and plink it)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lindsay40k wrote:
I absolutely love my Hell Blade, and whilst I got a fair bit of use from it in 7ed and really wanted to build up to a squadron, I’ve been very reluctant to dust it off since it got reduced to hitting all but a few targets on 4’s.

Might give it a go when I muster up for a really big game where there might be places it can land to snipe a character. The 20pts price cut does make it somewhat tempting. But I’d have preferred an increased fire rate... clearly, that’s a pair of twin Helstorm cannon.

But, I digress

Yeah, 130 points isnt bad at all. Makes you think why the hell is a heldrake so much more expensive...

 Zid wrote:

 Wibe wrote:
Have anyone, other than "Don", tried the 3xhell blades tactics?

No, but the same idea can be accomplished with other models (nurglings come to mind).

For fyi for everyone else, Don is taking 3 helblades to lvo for the purposes of board control, using the large base to prevent things like Knights from getting where they want to. The guns not too bad on the Helblade either.

However, buying $350 in forgeworld models that, in the future, may be useless... its a good idea, but you can accomplish it many different ways.

Yeah, I often play nurglings, but I can see how the hellblades does it better while also being able to treath off position characters.
Seems fun to play, but the cost...

 Wibe wrote:

 Zid wrote:

 Wibe wrote:
Have anyone, other than "Don", tried the 3xhell blades tactics?

No, but the same idea can be accomplished with other models (nurglings come to mind).

For fyi for everyone else, Don is taking 3 helblades to lvo for the purposes of board control, using the large base to prevent things like Knights from getting where they want to. The guns not too bad on the Helblade either.

However, buying $350 in forgeworld models that, in the future, may be useless... its a good idea, but you can accomplish it many different ways.

Yeah, I often play nurglings, but I can see how the hellblades does it better while also being able to treath off position characters.
Seems fun to play, but the cost...

Yeah, the helblade serves multiple functions, but im in the same boat; cost. Meta chasing isnt my deal anyway, theres a billion ways to play lol

New beta bolter rule: I like it and everything but can't help but feel we've lost a little something special. At least our plasmas still get a juicy buff.

Our power armour troops lose out but our terminator armoured brethren have just been boosted by a large %

We still get better auto gun cultists, longer rapid fire plasma, and the heavy assault weapon buff. I'm not complaining.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
We still get better auto gun cultists, longer rapid fire plasma, and the heavy assault weapon buff. I'm not complaining.

Bingo. We still lose nothng from moving and firing heavies, but we gained 6" on rapid fire from Lords and (possibly) plague marines. Its pretty win, especially because I'm digging my terminators a lot lately

Hey guys,

So I've been seeing more and more lists pop up that use squads of ten Blightlord terminators in highly competitive settings. These lists managed to secure wins, even without their usual daemon allies. So, what is the role, target and tactics of these large blightlord groups in a strictly competitive setting?

Obviously, they can deal a modest amount of damage using VotLW, and they can be buffed with blades of putrefication. However, the former just deals *some* damage, and the latter requires them to reach close combat, which at 9" after deep striking is by no means sure. In addition, with weapons such as riptides and ravagers with disintegrator cannons, wouldn't they just get murdered almost instantly?

Now, you could argue to use cloud of flies, but this can't be used after deep striking either, further limiting their survivability. So, what's the deal? And what do they do if they fail the charge? They are never going to catch anything ever again with their 4" movement. Looking for answers from a purely competitive point of view

Blightlords give DG a way to capture backfield objectives. It's no secret the DG army is a slowly creeping walking army so obviously one of the weaknesses is actually getting to an opponents backfield. Blightlords teleport, have reasonable firepower and CC, are priced fairly, and are durable.

Now some players use them as distraction carnifexes and draw fire hoping to tie up units. Others just to camp objectives and make an opponent either commit resources to kill them or ignore them which is a win win. In short, they provide a much needed tool for DG lists.

I use blightlords myself and they perform well when I use them as above. When I forget they are still just terminators in 8th and go all Leroy Jenkins with them I'm disappointed.

I am taking 10 Blightlords to LVO, though I would be curious to see these other lists you mentioned.

The odd fact that Cloud of Flies is in the movement phase is pretty crippling, especially combined with the GW FAQ. . However, if you position well and can survive one turn of shooting, it can be very useful. Blightlords will definitely die in the open though since 2-wound expensive models are still blah in this edition and they can't get a 3++ save.

 Virules wrote:
I am taking 10 Blightlords to LVO, though I would be curious to see these other lists you mentioned.

The odd fact that Cloud of Flies is in the movement phase is pretty crippling, especially combined with the GW FAQ. . However, if you position well and can survive one turn of shooting, it can be very useful. Blightlords will definitely die in the open though since 2-wound expensive models are still blah in this edition and they can't get a 3++ save.

You have to build the rest of the list to compensate for taking a turn without them; point is to clear anything that will really hurt them, then drop them in and laugh at your opponents feable attempts to kill them.

I have multiple reports here using them, and have been pretty impressed


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gryphonne wrote:
Hey guys,

So I've been seeing more and more lists pop up that use squads of ten Blightlord terminators in highly competitive settings. These lists managed to secure wins, even without their usual daemon allies. So, what is the role, target and tactics of these large blightlord groups in a strictly competitive setting?

Obviously, they can deal a modest amount of damage using VotLW, and they can be buffed with blades of putrefication. However, the former just deals *some* damage, and the latter requires them to reach close combat, which at 9" after deep striking is by no means sure. In addition, with weapons such as riptides and ravagers with disintegrator cannons, wouldn't they just get murdered almost instantly?

Now, you could argue to use cloud of flies, but this can't be used after deep striking either, further limiting their survivability. So, what's the deal? And what do they do if they fail the charge? They are never going to catch anything ever again with their 4" movement. Looking for answers from a purely competitive point of view

You deploy them in such a way it forces your opponent away from objectives, or they cant get away from the blightlords.

You need to build the list with them in mind, they are not a plug and play unit; lots of ranged firepower, survivable units, etc. For example, i see ravagers, i will pew those until they die or are rendered ineffective before the lords drop.

Lords also can do a surprisibg amount of damage, thise flails are no joke. Yes people will run from them, thats whybyou deploy them so people run where they dont want to, or so no matter where they gobtge lords have a chance to get to them.

I always deploy them targeting an objective and they can hold a table quarter all by themselves with no support. They are much harder to kill than you would think

If I had the models I would love to make a shootier army that can take out threats before BLs drop down.

As it is, I just have 3 PBCs with spitters. If needed, I turtle up and try to hide everything first turn or two and just try to kill one more unit than my opponent each turn and not give any good targets. Then Blightlords come in and get 4 different psychic buffs and hopefully kill at least one unit in the shooting phase and if they make a charge, another 1-2 units. Then just grind it out in the middle of the table in melee, if possible.

 Virules wrote:
If I had the models I would love to make a shootier army that can take out threats before BLs drop down.

As it is, I just have 3 PBCs with spitters. If needed, I turtle up and try to hide everything first turn or two and just try to kill one more unit than my opponent each turn and not give any good targets. Then Blightlords come in and get 4 different psychic buffs and hopefully kill at least one unit in the shooting phase and if they make a charge, another 1-2 units. Then just grind it out in the middle of the table in melee, if possible.

It might work for you bud, i tend to be aggressive early because it forces my opponent out of position to give the lords a better selection of drop zones. Crawlers are bffs with lords because they are incredibly hard to kill, which means you wont get tabled before the lords drop.

I like contemptors, renegade knights, armigers with my lords.

i will try in about couple of weeks at local league ETC tournament 10 blightlords 56 Pb's some nurglings and a super heavy detachment with IK+2 helverins, im pretty sure anyway i would prefer a spearhead with 3 PBC instead termies.

How do you equip your blightlords. Combi plas or just combibolters now the faq has improved them. What 2 flails? How many Axes vs swords?

 Nithaniel wrote:
How do you equip your blightlords. Combi plas or just combibolters now the faq has improved them. What 2 flails? How many Axes vs swords?

I take 8 bubotic axe + combi-plasma and 2 flails. It amazes me how how damage they do in the shooting phase with 18" rapid-fire on the plasma, prescience, veterans of the long war, and a chaos lord or daemon prince nearby for re-roll 1s. 16 shots hitting on 2+ rerolling and then wounding toughness 8 on 3+ doesn't suck. Even better if I can ally in someone to cast death hex on the target. I used to take an allied poxbringer for -1 toughness on a target as well, but I had to drop it to get gaze of fate on my list with a changecaster.

 Nithaniel wrote:
How do you equip your blightlords. Combi plas or just combibolters now the faq has improved them. What 2 flails? How many Axes vs swords?

8 axes 2 flails 6 combibolter 2 blight launchers, they worked fine for me. If you really want anti horde termies you can play 10 slaanesh temies with 8 combibolters and 2 reapers, 64 combibolter shots and 16 reapers shots they are deadly against hordes
Plasma now can be fine, but then support is needed and too many -1/-2 to hit out there.

I'd like to add some death guard to my black legion, would it be better to ally them in or use the plague marine profile in the codex?

 Formosa wrote:
I'd like to add some death guard to my black legion, would it be better to ally them in or use the plague marine profile in the codex?

Nurgle soup is fantastic. The DG perk isn’t quite as high value for Plague Marines any more, now that every Astartes Bolter can double tap at long range, but a DG detachment adding some Drones or Crawlers or a DR DP or even Blightlords will bring something good to the army. Especially if you like to field (or even summon*) Epidemius.

*literally the only good summon I know, and even then it’s generally not as good as forgoing the vague element of surprise to take him in a Battalion with Nurglings

 blackmage wrote:

 Nithaniel wrote:
How do you equip your blightlords. Combi plas or just combibolters now the faq has improved them. What 2 flails? How many Axes vs swords?

8 axes 2 flails 6 combibolter 2 blight launchers, they worked fine for me. If you really want anti horde termies you can play 10 slaanesh temies with 8 combibolters and 2 reapers, 64 combibolter shots and 16 reapers shots they are deadly against hordes
Plasma now can be fine, but then support is needed and too many -1/-2 to hit out there.

I would echo this; termis should strictly tackle ground targets, and do well killing infantry. They struggle very much killing any decent vehicles though unless you get blades on them, even then i wouldn't plan on them doing much. Waveserpents are their bane