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The question really is, if you’re bringing MBH, and you also want a distraction carnifex, what options have a better mix of points-endurance ratio and firepower magnetism.

If a punchy GUO drops in T2 then that could be two shooting phases you need to tank, and one shooting phase in which an army that can’t kite it is shooting pretty much everything at it until it’s crippled enough.

If GUO is waving a bell at MBH, it’s quite possibly going to be drawing fire away from the MBH from T1 right up until it’s death.

If I were trying bell GUO, I’d also have a unit of CSM Oblits nearby as well, and my expectation of the GUO would be that it would draw fire away from them and other robust units, and that they would pretty much perform as they usually do. Any actual free models would simply be unexpected bonuses; it’s not the free model that makes it a good support unit, but rather it’s the threat of free models that makes it a good fire magnet.

Now, if I were inclined to really build the list around bell GUO, there’d be a Bilepiper, PB horde, moderately large Nurgling unit, and moderately large Plague Drones unit. All of which are still pretty good when GUO dies - the idea is that when free models do happen, it’s a stressor.

 lindsay40k wrote:
The question really is, if you’re bringing MBH, and you also want a distraction carnifex, what options have a better mix of points-endurance ratio and firepower magnetism.

If a punchy GUO drops in T2 then that could be two shooting phases you need to tank, and one shooting phase in which an army that can’t kite it is shooting pretty much everything at it until it’s crippled enough.

If GUO is waving a bell at MBH, it’s quite possibly going to be drawing fire away from the MBH from T1 right up until it’s death.

If I were trying bell GUO, I’d also have a unit of CSM Oblits nearby as well, and my expectation of the GUO would be that it would draw fire away from them and other robust units, and that they would pretty much perform as they usually do. Any actual free models would simply be unexpected bonuses; it’s not the free model that makes it a good support unit, but rather it’s the threat of free models that makes it a good fire magnet.

Now, if I were inclined to really build the list around bell GUO, there’d be a Bilepiper, PB horde, moderately large Nurgling unit, and moderately large Plague Drones unit. All of which are still pretty good when GUO dies - the idea is that when free models do happen, it’s a stressor.

I think, after a few tries, that the GUO is not ready for a competitive list. I would like to try a brigade with a Renegade Castellan Knight to deal vs heavies.

How does ITC tactics vary from eternal and maelstrom tactics? I've read through and seen that obsec is super important, but then see don's list with no real obsec.

I'll be playing some ITC missions this weekend, light competitive from what I understand, and am curious if I've got the right mindset with my list.

Daemon detachment
2 poxbringer
3 nurglings

Winged DP
Lord
2 units of 3 plasma marines
1 unit 13 poxwalkers
3 flamer drones
1 flamer PBC
2 butcher havoc deredeo
Chaos Hellblade



Reading about the helblade going back to snipe characters is really appealing, as is the dakka from deredeos, I figure nurglings will help deny deepstrike, grab objectives and tie up tanks, though I'm tempted to drop the single PBC for more of them, despite how awesome PBC are.

 brugner8 wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:
The question really is, if you’re bringing MBH, and you also want a distraction carnifex, what options have a better mix of points-endurance ratio and firepower magnetism.

If a punchy GUO drops in T2 then that could be two shooting phases you need to tank, and one shooting phase in which an army that can’t kite it is shooting pretty much everything at it until it’s crippled enough.

If GUO is waving a bell at MBH, it’s quite possibly going to be drawing fire away from the MBH from T1 right up until it’s death.

If I were trying bell GUO, I’d also have a unit of CSM Oblits nearby as well, and my expectation of the GUO would be that it would draw fire away from them and other robust units, and that they would pretty much perform as they usually do. Any actual free models would simply be unexpected bonuses; it’s not the free model that makes it a good support unit, but rather it’s the threat of free models that makes it a good fire magnet.

Now, if I were inclined to really build the list around bell GUO, there’d be a Bilepiper, PB horde, moderately large Nurgling unit, and moderately large Plague Drones unit. All of which are still pretty good when GUO dies - the idea is that when free models do happen, it’s a stressor.

I think, after a few tries, that the GUO is not ready for a competitive list. I would like to try a brigade with a Renegade Castellan Knight to deal vs heavies.

if you want deal with heavies play helverins or FW deredeos

Was making a fun list with a LoC and a unit of Deathshroud and I never realized the LoC is only Str.4 while the Deathshroud are Str.5 base. I feel like they messed up the LoC on so many levels but that is a new angle of silly.

GW roll a dice when they build miniature profiles and same for units points that's not new

 blackmage wrote:
GW roll a dice when they build miniature profiles and same for units points that's not new

I would hate to contradict you here because I totally agree with you over a lot of head scratching GW decisions but I assume their logic here is that the LoC carries the manreaper already taking melee to S7. My guess is they didn't want to give him S5 bumped to S8 with the reaper granting knight crushing abilities

Knights were trash when the LoC was made. Meanwhile, space marine captains can take thunderhammers.

There is little reason to believe that giving LoC S4 and deathshroud S5 was a conscious decision.

They probably just gave deathshroud +1S to make them more like assault terminators.

first run with Blightlords today, the theory went thus:

a unit of seven (because I only have eight, and two are heavy weapons).
- flail
- reaper autocannon & axe
- 2x sword & combi bolter
- 3x axe & combi bolter - including champion

theory was they drop near a ruin, with a LoC nearby if one is around (today it was) otherwise without, the job is to clear the ruin of enemy infantry, making space for Plague Marines to move up and hold objectives.

the terminators then provide fire support to 24" from the combi bolters and the reaper a bit further.

that was the theory.

today saw a large ruin with four ad-mech infantry units, loaded with snipers and some sort of plasma gun plus rifles of some sort. plus a character buffing them

well we dropped 9" away, the terminators shot models on upper levels then charged, and made it (with a CP re-roll on one die), the Lord fluffed. they minced a couple and wounded the character, but ended safely in combat - the flail missing

the enemy pulled the two ground floor units back, character remained to try and kill terminators (he failed) but otherwise they didn't react.

following turn the lord piled in, between them they removed the character and repositioned for the next turn, where they removed the two units on the upper floors in combat.

the other two units had left, and were munched by nearby Plague marines and the terminators a turn later.

worked pretty well, cleaning the infantry nicely, struggling v the invulnerable save character as they simply were not rolling enough dice, but they did the job asked of them nicely, and even managed to survive to the end of the game, pinning Cawl in place until the second LoC cut him in half

play 10 with a lord arch contaminator and sorcerer+blades and poof inv.saves aren't anymore an issue, they deliver lot of mw with plague weapons at 5+ (blades+votlw) re rolling anything to wound

 blackmage wrote:
play 10 with a lord arch contaminator and sorcerer+blades and poof inv.saves aren't anymore an issue, they deliver lot of mw with plague weapons at 5+ (blades+votlw) re rolling anything to wound

expensive though, my goal is the removal of light and medium infantry with a high volume of shots and the removal quickly, defined as "anything T4 or less without an invun save other than maybe a 6++"

will be getting another box though so will certainly be trying a full unit

VotLW makes me feel like its cheating, love it

You could just cast blades from 18" away and then drop VotLW on them, few characters are going to survive that. No need to have your warlord and a caster dedicated to them.

True, only issue in the game Saturday was getting LoS from the caster to the terminators, turns out blocking LoS with ruins has pros and[i]cons.

its essentially how Cawl was cut down, he charged some plague marines and fluffed his rolls, as did they but got him in the open, the Blight Lords got rid of most of his woulds with VotLW, caster too far for blades sadly, trying to avoid the few remaining snipers.

drowning a character is saves works, helps when they are on their own though - this is obviously up to me to arrange.

off the back of this my plague marine squads are all gaining one dude with the extra combat weapon for the second attack, two now assembled with axes so each squad has more than the power fist champion to avoid getting stuck.

really enjoying using these guys

yes it's expensive but it's a serious threath some armies have big trouble to handle, Rely on a winged dp to cast blades hinders termy efficiency but sound accettable anyway,anyway the right number is 10 with 2 flails

expensive but looks amazing from the partial unit I have, and ten is enough attacks to be brutal, especially with two flails.

lack the daemon prince currently, well have two but in a metallic red/gold and rich purple colours so not as fitting as I'd like, likely to get another for this lot when they get a few more daemons - have 15 possessed to paint up when I can find them

2 flails+blades+votlw and you kill almost anything, I play them in ETC supported by a sorcerer arch contaminator with blades and miasma, hardly i have any issue deleting the unit i decide to delete, you can remove a IK.

If the new greater possessed can be taken in Death Guard legion then it will be a great boost to our daemon engines (drones, dp, PBCs) with its +1S aura. I know that Poxbringer already does the same but the greater possessed is much more willing to go into the front line. Not to mention the +1S aura might stack with Poxbringer, giving us a +2S.

Yes, greater possessed and the oblits are my hope to be allowed for DG.

DG needs more oblits than possesed, but i doubt oblits will have DG keyword

Surely we can just take Oblits as Alpha Legion - Nurgle and then drop them onto a tree with a Terminator Lord for re-rolls?

I have high hopes for what this release might do for Possessed. Possessed are the coolest unit in the game and have been neglected for too long. DG Possessed could be really cool and the modelling oportunities are limitless, I really hope we can take the GP and make Possessed actually woth taking.

 blackmage wrote:
DG needs more oblits than possesed, but i doubt oblits will have DG keyword

Greater possessed is a great choice instead of a nurgle herald to buff up spitters on PBCs and drones. I'm just a stickler for mono-factions where possible so taking from a single dex would be best. Even if Oblits couldn't use inexorable advance I'd still run them.

 blackmage wrote:
DG needs more oblits than possesed, but i doubt oblits will have DG keyword

GW confirmed that the primaris units can be used by non-vanilla marine chapters like dark angels and blood angels, so I expect the same for the traitor legions as well. It would be pretty weird if they explicitly call out that the obliterators can't be have death guard and thousand son keywords.

But then again DG and Tson don't even have basic csm at the moment

dg and ts have different lore so if they stay stick to that they will be not allowed to use obliteratots in their TS or DG detachments
@Buddha of course if you play monofaction possesed are great , you have no other choices anyway

 Continuity wrote:

 blackmage wrote:
DG needs more oblits than possesed, but i doubt oblits will have DG keyword

GW confirmed that the primaris units can be used by non-vanilla marine chapters like dark angels and blood angels, so I expect the same for the traitor legions as well. It would be pretty weird if they explicitly call out that the obliterators can't be have death guard and thousand son keywords.

But then again DG and Tson don't even have basic csm at the moment

Oblits were removed from being able to be given a DEATH GUARD keyword back in the index when 8th launched. I seriously doubt they will suddenly get the chance to take them now.

Oblits look very tasty.

Seriously doubt we'll be able to take anything from the new CSM in DG detachments but that's not gonna stop me souping the bejeezus outta the new box.

Been out of the loop regarding Death Guard for quite a while.

Just wanted to check if my knowledge still holds true. Last time I played our good units were:

Mortarion

DP w/ Wings, 2x Talons, Suppurating Plate, WT that reduces DMG by 1

Plaguecaster

Plaguemarines w/ 3x Plasma Guns or 1x Plasma 2x Blight Launchers

Blight Drone w/ Flamers

Poxwalkers (w/ various buffs from Typhus, Psychic etc.)

Blighthaulers

Helbrutes

 Causalis wrote:
Been out of the loop regarding Death Guard for quite a while.

Just wanted to check if my knowledge still holds true. Last time I played our good units were:

Mortarion

DP w/ Wings, 2x Talons, Suppurating Plate, WT that reduces DMG by 1

Plaguecaster

Plaguemarines w/ 3x Plasma Guns or 1x Plasma 2x Blight Launchers

Blight Drone w/ Flamers

Poxwalkers (w/ various buffs from Typhus, Psychic etc.)

Blighthaulers

Helbrutes

Hey bud, i made a tactica video just for people like you its actually in this forum section, halfway down the page.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lare2 wrote:
Oblits look very tasty.

Seriously doubt we'll be able to take anything from the new CSM in DG detachments but that's not gonna stop me souping the bejeezus outta the new box.

Their points cost is gonna go up. They got a substantial boost, and if they stay 195 points.... theyll be broken lol. Especially slaanesh ones that can double tap!

If I read the leaks right, oblits unit size changed from min 3, to min 1, hence why they got so buffed.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
If I read the leaks right, oblits unit size changed from min 3, to min 1, hence why they got so buffed.

Still max 3 though. I imagine they will be around the cost of. Helbrute. I would be surprised though if they dont go up much; these will see a lot of play either way.

Vanguard focus on Warhammer Community - hopefully daemonkin tomorrow.