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Biskits wrote:
Okay, I was under the impression that <Nurgle Daemon> was the only thing that received benefits from the poxbringers and the Gnarlmaws. I always thought that Obliterators wouldn't gain benefits even though it had the appropriate mark and is technically a daemon. I guess both kind of blend and become the <Nurgle Daemon> tag?

Your misconception is that there is a <Nurgle Daemon> keyword. <Nurgle> is a keyword, as is <Daemon>.

Obliterators (who select <Nurgle> to replace their <Mark of Chaos> keyword) have both the <Nurgle> and <Daemon> keywords, and are thus affected by Poxbringers and Gnarlmaws.

I'm wondering, is the Plague Hulk still a model that can be fielded? I've read that it is part of 8th edition, but I can't find mention of it in the DG codex or the model in either the GW or FW stores.

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I'm wondering, is the Plague Hulk still a model that can be fielded? I've read that it is part of 8th edition, but I can't find mention of it in the DG codex or the model in either the GW or FW stores.

It’s OOP because the mould broke, however there are 8ed rules for it in FW’s Index: Forces of Chaos. I think it’s even legal for DG - FW are very generous with their LEGION restrictions.

Just a quick question regarding some troops choices.

Have plenty of Plague marines and Poxwalkers. About 30 & 40.

Is it worth having any cultists in Death Guard?
I like to vary lists up and don’t need to be tournament level. But how do they do?
I assume they aren’t the super choice that they are in a heretic astartes list?

(I’ve got a load and I’m sure they’ll get painted up eventually, but I don’t want to spend choice on them early if I can be concentrating on other stuff for now)

Danny76 wrote:
Just a quick question regarding some troops choices.

Have plenty of Plague marines and Poxwalkers. About 30 & 40.

Is it worth having any cultists in Death Guard?
I like to vary lists up and don’t need to be tournament level. But how do they do?
I assume they aren’t the super choice that they are in a heretic astartes list?

(I’ve got a load and I’m sure they’ll get painted up eventually, but I don’t want to spend choice on them early if I can be concentrating on other stuff for now)

I don't think Cultists are all that great even in vanilla CSM now, what with the 'Mere Mortals' trait, which I believe DG cultists are FAQ'd to have or will be (?).

I run Nurglings for my cheap troops. They remove Inexorable Advance from units in their formation, because they aren't Death Guard, so watch for that. I like to run two Batallions of Nurglings with my Daemon Engines.

I still like a squad of cultists over poxwalkers if I'm needing a single choice since they can actually shoot. That said, with the mere mortals likely coming, and the insane 5pt price tag I'll likely be moving back to poxwalkers for objective holding.

I really like pox walkers for backfield objectives, since cultists sitting there wouldn't be able to shoot either and their immunity to morale and being 6+/5+++ in cover..
On top of that, they often catch back-field bullies like bikers or or terminators off-guard with how durable they are when you get to roll DR against everything, including mortal wounds, no moral casualties and a poxwalker or two popping back up when they get assaulted.
They also make amazing tarpits, in a recent game I had one unit of 20 keep a lord of change busy for the entire game. He simply couldn't get away from them and was forced to fight them turn after turn. Anything that can't reliably produce 10+ hits per round of combat has no chance of making its points back after getting charged by pox walkers.

IMO the extra point is really worth it.

Quick question for the powers that be, my Death guard force is nice and varied. However I lack fire support units. Now, I was thinking hell brutes with las and missile as they can move and snipe hard targets/big guns with the inexorable advance trait, I like the feel of it. However for points, they aren't that far removed from the plague burst crawler.

I've been going round and round and going through the options. What are the thoughts from the other powers that be ? Pros and cons of the two choices ? Maybe what choices you all made with your list and why ? I'm just curious as I've done the mental process for a bit now but don't want to put out money without need and without clear plan in mind. Either choice would be for fire support to cover a deathguard advance up board. I'm feeling like I should have something on hand to give some fire support on the way up to at least draw some heavy fire, silence some big guns, weaken some choice targets etc.

Help would be appreciated to see if I can be swayed either way.

Have you considered dreadnoughts? I have a dual butcher cannon Leviathan, which is great fun and quite resilient. That said, I seem to recall that Deredeos are rated particularly highly as a fire support option for DG.

AngryAngel80 wrote:
Quick question for the powers that be, my Death guard force is nice and varied. However I lack fire support units. Now, I was thinking hell brutes with las and missile as they can move and snipe hard targets/big guns with the inexorable advance trait, I like the feel of it. However for points, they aren't that far removed from the plague burst crawler.

I've been going round and round and going through the options. What are the thoughts from the other powers that be ? Pros and cons of the two choices ? Maybe what choices you all made with your list and why ? I'm just curious as I've done the mental process for a bit now but don't want to put out money without need and without clear plan in mind. Either choice would be for fire support to cover a deathguard advance up board. I'm feeling like I should have something on hand to give some fire support on the way up to at least draw some heavy fire, silence some big guns, weaken some choice targets etc.

Help would be appreciated to see if I can be swayed either way.

If you run pure DG there are but three choices for fire support.
Hellbrute with Twin Lascannon and Missile launcher
+ Hits on 3+, does not degrade
+ 48" range
+ S9
+ Shoot twice stratagem
o Decent in close combat
o Fairly Mobile
- Very easy to kill compared to other DG units

In general, helbrute just die too fast if you need to take out multiple knights, LRBT or similar. They will identify them as primary threat and just kill them. In other games, they stick out like a sore thump when basically everything else is sporting DR and/or 5++ saves, meaning they catch a lot of shots just because they are the easiest thing to kill. They work a lot better when Mortarion is on the field since he draws all the big guns towards him, while they are great at taking out the things that are danagerous to him. So I usually run helbrutes alongside the big boss. If they kill them anyways... hurray, Mortarion made it to into combat!

PBC with Entropy cannons
+ Hard to kill
+ Mortar can hit without LoS
+ Benefits from arch-contaminator
+ Daemon
o 36" range
- Hits on 4+, degrading
- No close combat
- Easy to tarpit
- Immobile unless you spend CP

PBC are insane with plague spitters, but the entropy cannon load-out is still great. If you buy them, make sure to magnetize the weapons, it's really easy.
They basically sit back and shoot, I usually deploy them somewhere elevated in the center of the board, so they have targets to shoot all game long. They are really weak when you are facing armies that are coming towards you like eldar, nids, CSM or orks as they have almost no defense to getting stuck in combat. Having a renegade knight stomp all over your army why your battle-tank is busy crushing cultists one by one isn't awesome. Make sure you bring something to screen them and/or something to get them out of combat (a foul blightspawn works well).

Myphitic Blighthauler
+ Fast
+ Provides cover to infantry
+ Daemon
o Hits on 3+ as long as you have 3
o Decent in close combat
- 24" range

You didn't put down these, but I still want to add them as an option in between helbrutes and PBC. Being able to move 10" and still fire without -1 to hit makes them able to be almost anywhere, but they tend to get locked in combat. Unlike a PBC you cannot efficiently screen them due to the multi-melta's low range, but they can get themselves out of combat against scrub units. If you drop blades of putrefaction on them they can even deal meaningful damage to most infantry units. They are a bit tricky to use as you want to maximize the use of their three guns each turn, while not having them tar-pitted or charged by something that can destroy them like smash captains, knights or warbosses.

Basically every choice has its pros and cons, I just got all three in order to use whatever one I want.

if you want to branch outside of death guard, the best choice are probably renegade helverines.

I have a league game next week against a TS/CSM/Renegade Knight player. My usual list consists of Nurglings, PBCs, MBHs, a single deredeo, and some Princes and Heralds.

I dont have the firepower to tackle the knight early on. Should I just go with mass Nurglings and pox walkers to just annoy my opponent?

Second option us to add a faction, and bring in some Oblits. Their price hike does seem steep, and would require a tax HQ, or an aux detachment.

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I have a league game next week against a TS/CSM/Renegade Knight player. My usual list consists of Nurglings, PBCs, MBHs, a single deredeo, and some Princes and Heralds.

I dont have the firepower to tackle the knight early on. Should I just go with mass Nurglings and pox walkers to just annoy my opponent?

Second option us to add a faction, and bring in some Oblits. Their price hike does seem steep, and would require a tax HQ, or an aux detachment.

Vs Knights, I have had some success charging them with PBCs to soak up overwatch and then charge in with Daemon Princes. If you tripoint, they can't fall back, and they aren't super great in melee usually.

Aleister_Dakka wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I have a league game next week against a TS/CSM/Renegade Knight player. My usual list consists of Nurglings, PBCs, MBHs, a single deredeo, and some Princes and Heralds.

I dont have the firepower to tackle the knight early on. Should I just go with mass Nurglings and pox walkers to just annoy my opponent?

Second option us to add a faction, and bring in some Oblits. Their price hike does seem steep, and would require a tax HQ, or an aux detachment.

Vs Knights, I have had some success charging them with PBCs to soak up overwatch and then charge in with Daemon Princes. If you tripoint, they can't fall back, and they aren't super great in melee usually.

I'd like to try that with MBHs, I like the idea of them biting at the Knight's ankles.

MBH need to stay in coherency, so you can't really tri-point a knight with a single unit.

Good point......

Is there any case to be made for having multiple MBHs, but not in the same unit? For example to support MSU of Plague Marines.

Thanks for the feedback, yeah that was kind of how I was looking at it, the choices. I didn't mention the blight haulers as I already have some. They were in fact my choice of fire support as they fight the traditional support for advance and heavy weapon support. I just wanted some more ranged options as was mentioned MBH tend to want to be closer.

From my use of the MBH, they actually are strangely good in CC, that -1 to hit against them is great and their mouth can actually kill pretty well. They did me proud in my games and that was with the higher cost, though that cost they had was way too much for what they did. Keeping plague marines around for cover was great. Well worth the risk of a mortal wound when you account of a unit of always in cover plagues is pretty hardy. I don't know if I'd risk terms hiding near them. As well heavy weapons aimed at the MBH aren't hitting the plagues either so two for one help there.

I did as well use a couple to support MSU plagues, one MBH was gunned down hard and exploded. The other one lived large and actually fought off a large amount of assault troops, was much tougher than I thought it would be and dragged a good many of them down.

PBC I've seen used tended to be a bit underwhelming, now maybe it was just the luck of the player, but they didn't tend to do much in most games. I'm thinking maybe I'll do the same and get some of column A and B and just add some Brutes and PBCs for what the mood calls for.

My list is focused towards the infantry is why I already picked up the MBHs I have just always loved plague marines and when they got zombies in the list well, I love me some zombies so that set me on the chaos path.

 lindsay40k wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I'm wondering, is the Plague Hulk still a model that can be fielded? I've read that it is part of 8th edition, but I can't find mention of it in the DG codex or the model in either the GW or FW stores.

It’s OOP because the mould broke, however there are 8ed rules for it in FW’s Index: Forces of Chaos. I think it’s even legal for DG - FW are very generous with their LEGION restrictions.

That sucks. Oh well, I've found it for reasonable prices elsewhere. Concerning it, 1d4chan seems to hype it up as super-powerful, but other people online say that it's not worth it. Should I buy it or get another daemon engine or tank?

 ArcaneHorror wrote:

 lindsay40k wrote:

 ArcaneHorror wrote:
I'm wondering, is the Plague Hulk still a model that can be fielded? I've read that it is part of 8th edition, but I can't find mention of it in the DG codex or the model in either the GW or FW stores.

It’s OOP because the mould broke, however there are 8ed rules for it in FW’s Index: Forces of Chaos. I think it’s even legal for DG - FW are very generous with their LEGION restrictions.

That sucks. Oh well, I've found it for reasonable prices elsewhere. Concerning it, 1d4chan seems to hype it up as super-powerful, but other people online say that it's not worth it. Should I buy it or get another daemon engine or tank?

Honestly? Get it if you like it, they’ll likely only get scarcer - and FW rules might get little in the way of review, but their points costs get revised with everything else. Being unviable today is no indication what might be around the corner of an FAQ pricecut - or synergy with a new unit, or a specialist formation.

Usage? It’s a sturdy T8 W14 DR slug with an unreliable, mediocre damage output. A good distraction carnifex needs to give your opponent a reason to shoot it up; this thing isn’t going to threaten much stuff and the amount of firepower it’ll take to bring down will usually ignore it in favour of other targets. S5 AP-2 D6 shot auto hitting pistol is it’s most interesting attack; have it pop out of the Warp (or get a MoP to Summon it after Advancing on turn one? Gimmicky, but unconventional can sometimes throw a curveball) and it might make your opponent blink. If their response to an A3 brick wall is to tarpit it with a horde, you could get a couple of rounds in with the vomit and also draw the horde forwards to where your Berzerkers ect can get stuck in without taking Overwatch casualties.

So, another mental excercise, Beasts of Nurgle, the models are over expensive ( my opinion ) but do they have any place ? I kind of like demon units for nurgle as pain in the butt units to draw fire and disrupt the plans as more important army assets can get into position and do the actual serious work. Like I have a good amount of nurglings that shimmy around and cause annoyance, as they should. Could beasts serve such a purpose ?

That said, I'm doing a soft proxy for some of them. As I want more use for the Nurgle kill team models of the geller pox kill team. So was thinking of using the commander there and the plague hulks to make like a zombie family and getting at least one actual beast of nurgle as I believe the base sizes are the same and sizes are the same. Here's my theme, it's a zombie family, The guy with the drill arm and fire stomach is the Dad, ya know he putters around and fixes stuff. The one with the apron and hatchet is Mom, because she's busy in the kitchen, and the other two are the kids, those scamps with the squid faces and tentacle arms always playing. The actual beast of nurgle with the goofy face and slobbery tongue is the family dog of course. All of them using the beast of nurgle rules and sticking to a zombie theme. Thoughts ?

My use would be similar to nurglings, who could be like the little babies I guess, stink babies. Just to fie up units, pin down shooting, draw fire and be a pain in the rear end. So far nurglings have been great at that job but I love the fluff of beasts of nurgle. I kind of like the happy go lucky demeanor of nurgle and how it contrasts with the more dour view of the Plague marines. I imagine they are pretty annoyed with the over the top adorable nature of some of the demon units. Using them as expendable shock troops to toss out without regard to survival.

Aleister_Dakka wrote:

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
I have a league game next week against a TS/CSM/Renegade Knight player. My usual list consists of Nurglings, PBCs, MBHs, a single deredeo, and some Princes and Heralds.

I dont have the firepower to tackle the knight early on. Should I just go with mass Nurglings and pox walkers to just annoy my opponent?

Second option us to add a faction, and bring in some Oblits. Their price hike does seem steep, and would require a tax HQ, or an aux detachment.

Vs Knights, I have had some success charging them with PBCs to soak up overwatch and then charge in with Daemon Princes. If you tripoint, they can't fall back, and they aren't super great in melee usually.

Against Knights Death Guard should really be taking Daemons to help. You can go whole batallion or just take a singly Poxbringer, either way the synnergy is necessary against Knights. With a Poxbringer hit the Knight with Shrivelling Pox. Then with a DG psyker hit the Knight with Gift of Contagion and hope for a 5-6 on the d3, use a re-roll if you roll 1-4. With a bit of luck the Knight is T6 now, T7 is still better than T8 but T6 is perfect for our blight launchers (wounding 75% of the time against T6) and spitters now wound on 3+/4+ depending which unit with re-roll 1s. Nurgle locus should do the rest.


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AngryAngel80 wrote:
So, another mental excercise, Beasts of Nurgle, the models are over expensive ( my opinion ) but do they have any place ? I kind of like demon units for nurgle as pain in the butt units to draw fire and disrupt the plans as more important army assets can get into position and do the actual serious work. Like I have a good amount of nurglings that shimmy around and cause annoyance, as they should. Could beasts serve such a purpose ?

That said, I'm doing a soft proxy for some of them. As I want more use for the Nurgle kill team models of the geller pox kill team. So was thinking of using the commander there and the plague hulks to make like a zombie family and getting at least one actual beast of nurgle as I believe the base sizes are the same and sizes are the same. Here's my theme, it's a zombie family, The guy with the drill arm and fire stomach is the Dad, ya know he putters around and fixes stuff. The one with the apron and hatchet is Mom, because she's busy in the kitchen, and the other two are the kids, those scamps with the squid faces and tentacle arms always playing. The actual beast of nurgle with the goofy face and slobbery tongue is the family dog of course. All of them using the beast of nurgle rules and sticking to a zombie theme. Thoughts ?

My use would be similar to nurglings, who could be like the little babies I guess, stink babies. Just to fie up units, pin down shooting, draw fire and be a pain in the rear end. So far nurglings have been great at that job but I love the fluff of beasts of nurgle. I kind of like the happy go lucky demeanor of nurgle and how it contrasts with the more dour view of the Plague marines. I imagine they are pretty annoyed with the over the top adorable nature of some of the demon units. Using them as expendable shock troops to toss out without regard to survival.

Base S4 and the D6 attacks just kills them for me but I am looking for an excuse to take them, they're great at tarpitting and can be fairly lethal (get to Damage 6 relatively easy with the Nurgle locus etc).

BoNs might be best used in conjunction with the Master of Possession. (Could also apply to Soulgrinder.) Advance forwards T1, use Incursion, drop a load of super tough slugs in the enemy’s face. Too potentially dangerous to ignore, too tough to easily leafblower away. Only issue is you will eventually have a disagreement as to whether or not this breaks the restrictions on turn one reinforcements.

Well I have the models anyways so will probably just try them out. I'm really not expecting them to do much damage for my ideas they are all about the distraction slug life. Run them up, tie up things that don't want to be tied up and by time for the rest of the list to do all the actual work. I just love the use of muck up the works units. Though I see what you say about the inconsistent results with the random involved.

If i brought LoD with 3 maulerfiend or venomcrawler and run along with mortarion, pbc and drone. this strategy is ok?

FAQ finally clarifies that Helm of Fulgaris works on all auras, including Arch Contaminator.

Might have me reconsider Suppurating Plate as my auto-include relic.

Plague hulk now notable as the only Legion unit with daemonic ritual.

Not sure if that means anything in particular, but with summoning being one of the few forward deployment T1 mechanics still legal , could be handy.




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Can it be warptimed? Hmm


Automatically Appended Next Post:
No.

No real changes for us then? The Figuris clarification was nice to see.

kaiseric wrote:
If i brought LoD with 3 maulerfiend or venomcrawler and run along with mortarion, pbc and drone. this strategy is ok?

Given that Castellans lost 3+++ and cost +100pts, probably not too shabby at all!

Is 15 Blightlord Terminators too many?
(Aside from modelling for extra options at least..)

I have 8 built, with a Plague Spewer, Reaper Autocannon and Flail in there.

Any thoughts on what the next two lots should be built as?
When it comes to running them, 2/3 lots of fives? A big set of ten?
And if so, two flails in one unit maybe, and two heavy weapons? Or just melee or heavy stuff only?

Or any other thoughts I haven’t come up with yet?.

Thanks!

Danny76 wrote:
Is 15 Blightlord Terminators too many?
(Aside from modelling for extra options at least..)

I have 8 built, with a Plague Spewer, Reaper Autocannon and Flail in there.

Any thoughts on what the next two lots should be built as?
When it comes to running them, 2/3 lots of fives? A big set of ten?
And if so, two flails in one unit maybe, and two heavy weapons? Or just melee or heavy stuff only?

Or any other thoughts I haven’t come up with yet?.

Thanks!

The most successful build is 6 combi-bolter/bubotic axe, 2 blight launcher/bubotic axe, and 2 flail of corruption.

Other builds can work, although the Reaper Autocannon and Plague Spewer are by far your worst options (as is the Combi-Flamer).

Since the box is a couple of axes short, I run some with swords. I have found them to be a nice addition against enemies without invulnerable saves - mostly marines, vehicles, sisters, aspect warriors and the like. So I wouldn't go out of my way to get those extra axes since they don't do that much anyways. I usually have two points to spare anyways.